Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

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#3601 7 years ago

LUD

lb1

Pinside member

Bay Area, CA

11y 66,800 1,242 1

Quoted from UvulaBob:
Also, with a newly-cleared playfield, should I go with full-playfield mylar, or just on the most common wear spots? If I wanted to get full-playfield mylar, what would be the best way to do that? Just get a full sheet and trim it to fit before putting anything back onto the playfield?

I'd stay away from the full Mylar. My experience with the Mylar you buy by the sheet is that it's not 100% uniform in look. See for instance https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lotr-refresh/page/2#post-3307856 and https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lotr-refresh/page/2#post-3337312. Maybe I'm doing something wrong when applying it.

I have been using a fair amount of small pieces of Mylar in the most common wear area and my observations are that these are actually not the areas that the full sheet covers. The shooter lane, VUKs, holes, center drain hole, apron/playfield contact, shooter lane rail. All of these I cover with small pieces of Mylar, Cliffy protectors, or http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/535-4000-00. With a cleared playfield and balls that you keep in good condition, you should get no wear at all on most of the playfield. Perhaps the only place where these is a bit of wear in in the return lanes as they get a lot of traffic in the exact same place. I wouldn't put Mylar there though.

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#3602 7 years ago

GUS

Plumonium

Pinside member

Montreal, QC

9y 60,550 1,496 5 7

Hey vid,

About storing playfield, I guess any piece of wood would work as rails to straighten the playfield? Hard wood most likely.

Do you simply screw along the sides and top and bottom or at a few place in the middle as well?

Most importantly, do you use exiting holes for top side rails or screw in fresh wood? Does this leave holes when the playfield is ready to use?

Any pictures how you do it?

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#3603 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from Plumonium:
Hey vid,
About storing playfield, I guess any piece of wood would work as rails to straighten the playfield? Hard wood most likely.
Do you simply screw along the sides and top and bottom or at a few place in the middle as well?
Most importantly, do you use exiting holes for top side rails or screw in fresh wood? Does this leave holes when the playfield is ready to use?
Any pictures how you do it?

I use the existing rail holes, but I put the rails on the back of the playfield for storage.

Storage rails are just scraps of Baltic Birch plywood, with the screws entering the "endgrain"

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#3604 7 years ago

GUS

Plumonium

Pinside member

Montreal, QC

9y 60,550 1,496 5 7

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
with the screws entering the "endgrain"

Not sure I understand this part, sorry

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#3605 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

The "endgrain" of plywood is the part that shows all the layers.

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1

#3606 7 years ago

GUS

Plumonium

Pinside member

Montreal, QC

9y 60,550 1,496 5 7

Oh ok! The endgrain of the rail, not the playfield...

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#3607 7 years ago

KWF

Fytr

Pinside member

11y 101K 3,412 8

...still confused, how about a pic Vid?

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1

#3608 7 years ago

GUS

Plumonium

Pinside member

Montreal, QC

9y 60,550 1,496 5 7

Like that I guess. Screws #8 in the same holes as the top side rails. Careful not to go through. Mine are poplar wood 1"x2".

image (resized).jpg

0

#3609 7 years ago

GUS

Plumonium

Pinside member

Montreal, QC

9y 60,550 1,496 5 7

This won't prevent twisting though, any solution?

0

#3610 7 years ago

PGR

PhilGreg

Ayscrim Studios

Québec, QC

11y 101K 2,446 6 1

Quoted from Plumonium:
Like that I guess. Screws #8 in the same holes as the top side rails. Careful not to go through. Mine are poplar wood 1"x2".

Fish Tales!

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#3611 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from Plumonium:
This won't prevent twisting though, any solution?

If you have a playfield that wants to twist, then use angle iron on the back.

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#3612 7 years ago

JDB

kilmarnock1350

Pinside member

Pensacola, FL

9y 34,800 398 25

I completely forgot to sand the Diamond Plate playfield before I cleared... as in, no 800 grit sanding to "give it the tooth"

What can I expect?

0

#3613 7 years ago

MAR

marspinball

Pinside+ Frequent

San Diego, CA

13y 66,800 625 30

Here is something I shouldn't have to fix but what's the best thing to do with a chip in the shooter lane on a new machine. I contacted Stern and they have sent me a small bottle of clear coat and a small sheet of sandpaper (200).

20160723_230329 (resized).jpg

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#3614 7 years ago

GER

hisokajp

Pinside+ Frequent

Redmond, WA

9y 81,800 1,891 46 11

Quoted from marspinball:
Here is something I shouldn't have to fix but what's the best thing to do with a chip in the shooter lane on a new machine. I contacted Stern and they have sent me a small bottle of clear coat and a small sheet of sandpaper (200).

whoa... that some great support for a GB LE... O_O

0

#3615 7 years ago

DKP

tezting

Inactive member

10y 54,300 1,104 1

Quoted from marspinball:
I contacted Stern and they have sent me a small bottle of clear coat and a small sheet of sandpaper (200).

Are you kidding? Can you show a image of the clearcoat/bottle? And it is not the distro but stern that send it?

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#3616 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:
I completely forgot to sand the Diamond Plate playfield before I cleared... as in, no 800 grit sanding to "give it the tooth"
What can I expect?

The clear will start to lift off in high impact areas.

Did you at least get all the wax off with Naphtha before you sprayed?

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#3617 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from marspinball:
Here is something I shouldn't have to fix but what's the best thing to do with a chip in the shooter lane on a new machine. I contacted Stern and they have sent me a small bottle of clear coat and a small sheet of sandpaper (200).

Is that chip still attached, or has it come off the playfield?

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1

#3618 7 years ago

JDB

kilmarnock1350

Pinside member

Pensacola, FL

9y 34,800 398 25

Very clean, with multiple cleaning with naphtha and some areas magic eraser to clean marks.

I got everything ready, was in a hurry, and forgot to scuff it.

Lesson learned for me.

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1

#3619 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

RPC

Rochester, NY

11y 158K 10,387 85 122 1

Vid, I've been wondering about this 'wax before mylar' thing. If I put down a nice coat of wax and then mylar some spots, and five years later peel up the mylar, is the wax still going to protect the paint from peeling up, or is it just a temporary thing? Two years? Ten years? Is the reason why paint comes up on old games because they didn't bother waxing first back then, or....? How much safer does it make the mylar removal (in the short term)? Are we talking 0% chance of paint coming up (as long as the paint is in good condition), or just a 50%? What about over large wear spots? I've got some places on my Spectrum where there's two inch areas with no paint left, and was considering how/if to protect them from getting worse. Is the chance of taking up paint higher? (none of it seems to be flaking)

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1

#3620 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from zacaj:
Vid, I've been wondering about this 'wax before mylar' thing. If I put down a nice coat of wax and then mylar some spots, and five years later peel up the mylar, is the wax still going to protect the paint from peeling up, or is it just a temporary thing? Two years? Ten years? Is the reason why paint comes up on old games because they didn't bother waxing first back then, or....? How much safer does it make the mylar removal (in the short term)? Are we talking 0% chance of paint coming up (as long as the paint is in good condition), or just a 50%? What about over large wear spots? I've got some places on my Spectrum where there's two inch areas with no paint left, and was considering how/if to protect them from getting worse. Is the chance of taking up paint higher? (none of it seems to be flaking)

There are a lot of variables to consider there.

Different companies made Mylar over the years, and different adhesives were used.

Playfields that have been in unconditioned spaces (like a garage) will loose paint much easier.

But waxing with a real paste Carnauba wax (not some fake liquid "wax"), and using the Mylar that Marco sells by the foot on a roll, it seems that any intact paint stays intact upon removal.

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#3621 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

RPC

Rochester, NY

11y 158K 10,387 85 122 1

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
There are a lot of variables to consider there.
Different companies made Mylar over the years, and different adhesives were used.
Playfields that have been in unconditioned spaces (like a garage) will loose paint much easier.
But waxing with a real paste Carnauba wax (not some fake liquid "wax"), and using the Mylar that Marco sells by the foot on a roll, it seems that any intact paint stays intact upon removal.

And you don't think that, all other conditions (humidity, temp, etc) being good, the wax will lose its effectiveness at paint preservation over time?

0

#3622 7 years ago

MAR

marspinball

Pinside+ Frequent

San Diego, CA

13y 66,800 625 30

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Is that chip still attached, or has it come off the playfield?

It actually fell out and I found the piece at the bottom of the cabinet. I saved it just in case.

Part of the chip is in the shoulder of the shooter lane. That part is still attached to the playfield.

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1

#3623 7 years ago

ZUM

Mr_Tantrum

Fort Worth, TX

8y 140K 12,540 3 6 75

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
But waxing with a real paste Carnauba wax (not some fake liquid "wax"), and using the Mylar that Marco sells by the foot on a roll, it seems that any intact paint stays intact upon removal.

I followed this advice exactly. While vid can speak from experience, I seriously doubt he has documented the results of this advice over 5, 10, 15 year periods. Not sure what you are looking for but use some logic. The Mylar is adhering to a wax layer not the paint or even clear coat layer. You are then sealing the wax with an airtight layer off Mylar. While I guess the wax could melt or breakdown under extreme conditions, I seriously doubt that it is just going to disappear this causing the adhesive Mylar to come in direct contact with Playfield paint.

0

#3624 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from zacaj:
And you don't think that, all other conditions (humidity, temp, etc) being good, the wax will lose its effectiveness at paint preservation over time?

I think that the wax will still be sealed under the Mylar until 2050 at least.

Think of it this way: Factory Mylar that gets installed before any wax touches the playfield is difficult to remove. Aftermarket Mylar, put on after the game has been placed on route, is much easier to remove.

0

#3625 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from marspinball:
It actually fell out and I found the piece at the bottom of the cabinet. I saved it just in case.
Part of the chip is in the shoulder of the shooter lane. That part is still attached to the playfield.

If the chip has fallen out, then I'd gently sand the wood and maybe 5mm around the chip.

Lay down a few THIN layers of clear.

Cover the repair with Mylar after it dries for a week.

0

#3626 7 years ago

ZAC

zacaj

RPC

Rochester, NY

11y 158K 10,387 85 122 1

Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:
I followed this advice exactly. While vid can speak from experience, I seriously doubt he has documented the results of this advice over 5, 10, 15 year periods. Not sure what you are looking for but use some logic. The Mylar is adhering to a wax layer not the paint or even clear coat layer. You are then sealing the wax with an airtight layer off Mylar. While I guess the wax could melt or breakdown under extreme conditions, I seriously doubt that it is just going to disappear this causing the adhesive Mylar to come in direct contact with Playfield paint.

Not that you could know for sure, but Vid definitely knows more than I do

0

#3627 7 years ago

JDB

kilmarnock1350

Pinside member

Pensacola, FL

9y 34,800 398 25

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
The clear will start to lift off in high impact areas.

Is there anything I can do about the playfield now it's cleared. Several coats last night.

It is diamond plate. Worth sanding off and start again?

I cleaned it VERY well.

0

#3628 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:
Is there anything I can do about the playfield now it's cleared. Several coats last night.
It is diamond plate. Worth sanding off and start again?
I cleaned it VERY well.

It would be untold hours of work to sand off. Something bad is bound to happen, like a sandthrough or art coming off the inserts.

I'd just play it and see.

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1

#3629 7 years ago

KWF

Fytr

Pinside member

11y 101K 3,412 8

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:
Is there anything I can do about the playfield now it's cleared. Several coats last night.
It is diamond plate. Worth sanding off and start again?
I cleaned it VERY well.

Was the playfield NOS or had it been played a ton before you cleared it? If it was played wouldn't there already be a nice covering of micro-abrasions anywhere the ball travelled that should help give the new clear something to anchor to?

I'm no expert but seems like a well played PF would already be anything but perfectly smooth, maybe not much to worry about.

0

#3630 7 years ago

JDB

kilmarnock1350

Pinside member

Pensacola, FL

9y 34,800 398 25

Quoted from Fytr:
I'm no expert but seems like a well played PF

It's a WELL broken in Diamond Plate Rollergames.

I'm going to just play. and hope.

0

#3631 7 years ago

WS

desertT1

Tucson Pinball

Vail, AZ

12y 72,550 4,033 23

If I need to get triple thick off glass, is there something that does that better than others? Sprayed an EM backglass and didn't put tape down over the clear areas and now the reels are harder to see.

0

1

#3632 7 years ago

TSH

Travish

Pinside member

Greensboro, NC

11y 98,800 3,348 6

Quoted from desertT1:
If I need to get triple thick off glass, is there something that does that better than others? Sprayed an EM backglass and didn't put tape down over the clear areas and now the reels are harder to see.

Razor blade

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#3633 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from desertT1:
If I need to get triple thick off glass, is there something that does that better than others? Sprayed an EM backglass and didn't put tape down over the clear areas and now the reels are harder to see.

Use a BRAND NEW single edge blade, works great

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1

#3634 7 years ago

WS

desertT1

Tucson Pinball

Vail, AZ

12y 72,550 4,033 23

The blade worked great.

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8

#3635 7 years ago

PGR

PhilGreg

Ayscrim Studios

Québec, QC

11y 101K 2,446 6 1

Thank you very much Vid! Never would have attempted this restore without this thread, and I had much better results than I hoped for. Definitely not perfect, but good enough to my liking.

I wanted to start with a beater and get it to a decent level so I'd learn more stuff along the way. Definitely picked up some skills - the only thing I'm still not understanding is the reaction I had with the decals... I'll try using a more professional printer next time around, and maybe let them sit longer before I clear them next time.
Also will move on from using SprayMax 2k to the real stuff. The product itself is great, but it puts too much pressure on trying not waste too much, and makes you feel bad for making small touchups and wasting the whole can and such.
Another thing is making sure the holes are filled flat with Bondo before painting. I created myself a whole lot of extra work by trying to fill in holes with paint and later on with clear.

Before:
IMG_20141127_212413926 (resized).jpg
IMG_20141127_212409100 (1) (resized).jpg
IMG_20141127_212403110 (resized).jpg
IMG_20141127_212350075 (resized).jpg
IMG_20141125_214925090 (resized).jpg
IMG_20141125_193548013 (resized).jpg

After:
IMG_8942 (resized).JPG
IMG_8938 (resized).JPG
IMG_8943 (resized).JPG
IMG_8946 (resized).JPG
IMG_8948 (resized).JPG
IMG_8936 (resized).JPG

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1

#3636 7 years ago

BTE

RocketFromTombs

Pinside member

Schoolcraft, MI

8y 34,300 171

Nice job!

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#3637 7 years ago

BOB

UvulaBob

Pinside member

Revere, MA

10y 33,900 750

Vid, what considerations do I need to make for the fin shank screws that are used for pop bumpers? SOmetimes, they need to be hammered into the playfield, don't they? Or can I just widen the skinnier of the two holes to allow the shaft of the screw to go through, but make sure the fin sinks into actual wood? How do I safely expose that wood?

1

0

-1

#3638 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

I usually use a countersinking drill bit, so when the screw-nail is tight, the nail head is flush.

0

#3639 7 years ago

JAY

jaystile

Pinside member

8y 37,900 96 7

Quoted from marspinball:
Here is something I shouldn't have to fix but what's the best thing to do with a chip in the shooter lane on a new machine. I contacted Stern and they have sent me a small bottle of clear coat and a small sheet of sandpaper (200).

I have this same exact issue on my premium, but I have an additional chip where the cutout is. My larger 'bubble' is just crackled right now. Vid, is the best procedure to sand out all the cracked clear before reapplying?

0

#3640 7 years ago

BOB

UvulaBob

Pinside member

Revere, MA

10y 33,900 750

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
I usually use a countersinking drill bit, so when the screw-nail is tight, the nail head is flush.

So I should pick up a countersinking drill bit to get the clear out of these fin shank screw holes, and then what? I'm having a hard time imagining how I'm going to get these in there without having to hammer and shatter the clear coat.

0

1

#3641 7 years ago

LUD

lb1

Pinside member

Bay Area, CA

11y 66,800 1,242 1

Quoted from UvulaBob:
So I should pick up a countersinking drill bit to get the clear out of these fin shank screw holes, and then what? I'm having a hard time imagining how I'm going to get these in there without having to hammer and shatter the clear coat.

Drill the top of the smaller hole that goes through just enough to remove the excess clear so you can get the screw to go through. You may need to gently tap the head. Then screw the nylon nut on and use is to pull the screw all the way in. If you're a perfectionist and want to remove some extra clear in the larger hole and have the head perfectly flush, follow Vid's recommendation. I didn't and was still happy with the results. If you have tons of clear in the countersink hole, you may need to remove it.

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#3642 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from jaystile:
I have this same exact issue on my premium, but I have an additional chip where the cutout is. My larger 'bubble' is just crackled right now. Vid, is the best procedure to sand out all the cracked clear before reapplying?

the little bottle from Stern is just clear nail polish, not actual 2PAC clearcoat.

If you had real 2PAC, you might be able to inject it into the crack with a syringe to do the repair.

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2

#3643 7 years ago

KEN

radium

Pinside+ Frequent

Covington, LA

10y 93,550 4,153 12 2

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
the little bottle from Stern is just clear nail polish, not actual 2PAC clearcoat.

ccfd11176b7a3fe7be76951321047f88 (resized).jpg

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#3644 7 years ago

JAB

jboner1058

Pinside member

Bridgeton, NJ

8y 53,550 985 5 9

Just found a half bottle of mill wax in the coin box of a close encounters ss. It just needs some minor touch ups around the inserts and a couple inserts replaced. Am I doomed to use mylar? Will I be able to fill the cupped inserts due to the mill wax?

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#3645 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from jboner1058:
Just found a half bottle of mill wax in the coin box of a close encounters ss. It just needs some minor touch ups around the inserts and a couple inserts replaced. Am I doomed to use mylar? Will I be able to fill the cupped inserts due to the mill wax?

You may get a few fisheyes around the inserts where the wood fibers have absorbed the silicone.

If this happens, then rough up the fisheye with 100grit and refill the hole.

It's not fun, but you can fix it with a little extra effort.

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#3646 7 years ago

BOB

UvulaBob

Pinside member

Revere, MA

10y 33,900 750

What can I clean the wood side rails with? They're pretty dirty, and I don't want to run them under the sink, obviously.

I've tried a damp cloth, but I don't feel like it's picking up all the dirt.

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#3647 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Put some Naphtha on a rag and wipe.

Remember some "wood" siderails are just vinyl overlay, not real wood.

0

#3648 7 years ago

WS

desertT1

Tucson Pinball

Vail, AZ

12y 72,550 4,033 23

I painted the cab and head, and wiped with IPA before doing decals. Most areas are sticking just fine, but a few edges and corners are doing this, any suggestions on additional adhesion options?

image (resized).jpeg

0

#3649 7 years ago

FCB

Fred736

Pinside member

8y 33,050 152 3

So all my decals are printed, cut and ready to apply on my fully refurbished and cleared See Saw PF.

IMG_20161015_223017 (resized).jpg

The clear coat has been sanded to 600 grit. It's definitely not shinny, actually it very mate but very smooth and uniform without a dimple in it. The end is close.

I've applied a few decals already as a test. The application when very well.

IMG_20161015_223132 (resized).jpg
IMG_20161015_223106 (resized).jpg

However, as can be seen on the pics, the clear border of the decal is clearly visible.
Of course, the sheen of the decal being different from that of the surrounding surface accentuates this border but on the head on picture where the difference in sheen is minimized, the border is still visible.
I don't think I should be alarmed about this as I believe i remember reading somewhere that this clear border will disappear when I clear coat over these decals.
But Im not quite certain.

I guess, I'm looking for some kind of confirmation that I'm good to go before proceeding further.
Hopefully, I dont have to trim the decals flush to the black text/keylines. I'll be at it forever.

Also for those round insert decals, I'm wondering if i should cut out the center?
Again I think not as this will make it difficult to apply and that center should fade into the clear but would like opinions.

Thanks,

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#3650 7 years ago

BOB

UvulaBob

Pinside member

Revere, MA

10y 33,900 750

Which decals did you use? I used the ones from DecalPaper.com on my recently-finished Taxi playfield, and I'm really happy with the results. With other brands, your mileage may vary.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/yo-another-taxi

I'll take some close-up pictures and post them tomorrow.

By vid1900

11 years ago

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