Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

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#3551 7 years ago

PGR

PhilGreg

Ayscrim Studios

Québec, QC

11y 99,800 2,444 6

Hard to tell for the bubbling because I went with an xacto knife and cut out the middle of the inserts. I did one large decal for the indian's face and that one has no bubbling so I'd say it's only over the black print.
Yes, I did some filling already, but I'll see how flat it is after I wet sand it and will refill if needed. I'm now almost out of my red mix so I hope I don't have any issues this time around. I'm using Createx and I've been sporadically working on this playfield for over a year, and I had to refill the paint with some water to get it to a correct viscosity.
I did the same with the blue with no problems though, so I think it probably is because it didn't cure long enough...

0

#3552 7 years ago

WPG

guymontag451

Wedgehead

Portland, OR

13y 92,800 1,006 25 170

Very cool, what a nice resource. had to favorite this for future reference

0

#3553 7 years ago

JAB

twisty4678

Pinside member

East Aurora, NY

8y 31,550 164 5

Vid I tried to scrape the clear coat residue from the tops of my AFM inserts to prepare for decal install. I tried using an brand new 1/4 inch chisel at a 90 degree angle with gentle strokes. It appears to be removing some of the insert as well, as I'm getting red residue. Am I stuck with having to tape and sand each insert at this point? Thanks as always.

image (resized).jpeg

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1

#3554 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

It's time to re-edge that chisel!

See those comblike lines? That's a bad chisel.

bevel (resized).png

You can sharpen it with a stone, or even grades of sandpaper + motor oil.

Or, you can just drop it off at Woodcraft or any saw sharpening shop.

0

#3555 7 years ago

JAB

twisty4678

Pinside member

East Aurora, NY

8y 31,550 164 5

Well that's what I get for buying a brand new chisel from lowes I assumed buying new as opposed to borrowing a used one from my father would have been safer. I even sprung for the more expensive one...

So, sharpen the chisel for the rest of the inserts. As far as this insert, would you recommend sanding it to fix it?

0

#3556 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

A sharp chisel may clean it up, as insert plastic is very soft.

Check out a youtube video on sharpening, you can do it easily. They are crap from the factory.

0

#3557 7 years ago

LUD

lb1

Pinside member

Bay Area, CA

11y 66,800 1,242 1

Quoted from twisty4678:
Vid I tried to scrape the clear coat residue from the tops of my AFM inserts to prepare for decal install. I tried using an brand new 1/4 inch chisel at a 90 degree angle with gentle strokes. It appears to be removing some of the insert as well, as I'm getting red residue. Am I stuck with having to tape and sand each insert at this point? Thanks as always.

Using a Dremel such as in https://www.flickr.com/photos/strepe/sets/72157629712734202/ could be an alternative.

0

#3558 7 years ago

JDB

kilmarnock1350

Pinside member

Pensacola, FL

9y 34,800 398 25

Hi! second clear coat process is starting (currently in tear down).

Any special considerations when clearing over a Diamond Plated playfield? Clean, sand with 600, and spray. Anything specific to DP that I should be aware of? (late system 11)

What's the best cleaning material to get those deep dirt and grime scars out of the DP before clear/touch up.

Thanks as always!

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#3559 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:
Any special considerations when clearing over a Diamond Plated playfield? Clean, sand with 600, and spray. Anything specific to DP that I should be aware of? (late system 11)

DP is much easier than normal sys11, so it should go well.

Sand with 800 for some tooth

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:
What's the best cleaning material to get those deep dirt and grime scars out of the DP before clear/touch up.

Alcohol and Magic Eraser is usually good on DP playfields.

0

#3560 7 years ago

BOB

UvulaBob

Pinside member

Revere, MA

10y 33,900 750

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
You need to block sand that playfield.
Sanding will get rid of all that rough surface.

I would, but I just found a problem. There's a spot where a decal has folded under itself, so it's raised just a bit above the rest of the playfield. I don't know if it'll ever be rolled over by a ball, since it real close to a border, but I'm worried that if I sand it, that part will get snagged and that spot of the decal will be ruined. I suppose I could lay another decal on top of it to try to make it look OK, and then put another layer of clear on it.

What do you think?

0

#3561 7 years ago

JAB

twisty4678

Pinside member

East Aurora, NY

8y 31,550 164 5

Quoted from lb1:
Using a Dremel such as in https://www.flickr.com/photos/strepe/sets/72157629712734202/ could be an alternative.

Which attachments would you reccommend? Were you able to get the inserts clear with this method?

0

#3562 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Quoted from UvulaBob:
I would, but I just found a problem. There's a spot where a decal has folded under itself, so it's raised just a bit above the rest of the playfield. I don't know if it'll ever be rolled over by a ball, since it real close to a border, but I'm worried that if I sand it, that part will get snagged and that spot of the decal will be ruined. I suppose I could lay another decal on top of it to try to make it look OK, and then put another layer of clear on it.
What do you think?

Lets see a picture of what you have there.

0

#3563 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Quoted from twisty4678:
Which attachments would you reccommend? Were you able to get the inserts clear with this method?

You don't even have to worry about them being "clear".

Wipe the insert with Naphtha to see how good it will look once cleared.

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#3564 7 years ago

JAB

twisty4678

Pinside member

East Aurora, NY

8y 31,550 164 5

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
You don't even have to worry about them being "clear".
Wipe the insert with Naphtha to see how good it will look once cleared.

Unfortunately I won't be clearing it vid, I'll be using playfield insert decals. The playfield is too chipped to be worth fully restoring. I will be getting a new playfield down the line after the decals wear out and I have sufficient funds.

0

#3565 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Quoted from twisty4678:
Unfortunately I won't be clearing it vid, I'll be using playfield insert decals. The playfield is too chipped to be worth fully restoring. I will be getting a new playfield down the line after the decals wear out and I have sufficient funds.

You can level the playfield, then drip in some Clearcoat to completely level that insert. Then just apply the decal on top.

This will strengthen the insert, and give you a totally flat playfield.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/17#post-1717646

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#3566 7 years ago

BOB

UvulaBob

Pinside member

Revere, MA

10y 33,900 750

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Lets see a picture of what you have there.

14466316_10210999092922984_1491012745_o (resized).jpg

This is the best my wife can do with her phone. I can try to get something clearer tonight, though.

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#3567 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Quoted from UvulaBob:
This is the best my wife can do with her phone. I can try to get something clearer tonight, though.

Good enough pic.

Carefully sand it flat, and just drip some clear into those holes. It will be dry in a hour.

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#3568 7 years ago

BOB

UvulaBob

Pinside member

Revere, MA

10y 33,900 750

The problem is that the parts I've circled in red are actually bumps. They're higher than the rest of the clear coat. If I run sand paper over them, I'm afraid I'll break through the clear and end up sanding the decal. I've done that on accident before, an it's not pretty.

I mean, I suppose it'd only end up looking a bit worse than it does now. Maybe I can get it smooth enough to lay another decal over it, apply another final layer of clear on Monday, when it's warmer, and block sand that down to a final sheen.

14466316_10210999092922984_1491012745_o (resized).jpg

0

#3569 7 years ago

OLI

flugs

Inactive member

Montech

12y 27,550 96 8 8

Salut,

I have probably missed the information, but what is the best way to clean the rollover (for the switches) prior applying clearcoat?
I do not want to seal the dirt with the clearcoat.
Vid always has a genius proposal for tools, so I'm hoping there is something making this more easy.

Thanks in advance,
flugs

0

#3570 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Put the old star rollover in upsidedown so no clear can get inside the insert.

a9a862efef22f6589fca11446706c507d42ca2b7 (resized).jpg

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#3571 7 years ago

JDB

kilmarnock1350

Pinside member

Pensacola, FL

9y 34,800 398 25

Vid,

This is the sys 11 DP playfield I asked about a couple days ago.

My question is how the inserts are inserted and cleared from the factory. Many of the inserts have lifted slightly, usually just barely on one side, creating wear on the high side. The clear on top of the insert is uniform to the insert, i.e. no cracking around the edges.

Do I need to reglue these inserts?

My plan is to spray, then sand to level until it's level (build up), then WSD the inserts, then finish coat of clear.

If that is a bad idea, please let me know. This is a players game, private collection. Functional, playability is the goal.

Thanks

IMG_9399 (resized).JPG

0

#3572 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:
My question is how the inserts are inserted and cleared from the factory. Many of the inserts have lifted slightly, usually just barely on one side, creating wear on the high side. The clear on top of the insert is uniform to the insert, i.e. no cracking around the edges.

That insert looks pretty normal for a game of that era. Playfield looks in good shape.

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:
Do I need to reglue these inserts?

Yes, heat with hair dryer on both sides, use 12" c-clamp and press them back flush with the playfield. Re-epoxy once it cools from the backside.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration#post-551406

8ea1ef97f22670347f53dc5e69b993a61b7ac72c (resized).jpg

0

#3573 7 years ago

JDB

kilmarnock1350

Pinside member

Pensacola, FL

9y 34,800 398 25

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Re-epoxy once it cools from the backside.

I reread that section. Thanks.

Just be clear, how long approximately do you hold the hair dryer? 10 secs/ side?

And, when applying epoxy, you're talking NOT to pull the insert out and rough up the edge, just press into place, and glue the bottom of the insert.

Preference on epoxy?

0

#3574 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Do maybe 5 seconds on top, then 5 on bottom - keep alternating for about a minute. You can melt the insert if you get too crazy.

Don't pull the insert out unless it's cracked.

Any 2 part epoxy (the kind you mix together) is probably fine.

0

#3575 7 years ago

BOB

UvulaBob

Pinside member

Revere, MA

10y 33,900 750

Vid, any advice on how to deal with that folder-under decal that I cleared over? Is it worth messing with in order to sand the playfield down, or is it OK to leave the field as-is and just put some mylar over the bump? It's not in much of a place that will affect the ball.

0

#3576 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

I'd just gently sand it flat.

Drip some clear on it, and feather in the clear.

0

#3577 7 years ago

BOB

UvulaBob

Pinside member

Revere, MA

10y 33,900 750

OK. If you don't think there's any danger of ruining the decal in that spot, I'll do it.

Should I drip the clear on there before starting the sanding, or after?

0

#3578 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Quoted from UvulaBob:
OK. If you don't think there's any danger of ruining the decal in that spot, I'll do it.
Should I drip the clear on there before starting the sanding, or after?

Gently sand first, by hand, checking for damage after each stroke.

The moment you have sanded enough to give the clear some tooth, clean with Naphtha, and put a drop of clear over the spot.

Allow to dry, and feather in the repair.

0

#3579 7 years ago

BOB

UvulaBob

Pinside member

Revere, MA

10y 33,900 750

When you say "feather", do you mean try to create a smooth gradient between the lump and the rest of the flat playfield? Does that mean my flat playfield is going to have a slight rise over that spot? Is that going affect the sanding of the rest of that area with a flat sander?

Sorry if I'm asking so many stupid questions. I'm just wanting to make sure I know what I'm going to do before I reuin what appears to be a perfectly finely cleared playfield, and I'm not quite able to visualize the end-to-end process you're describing.

0

#3580 7 years ago

JAB

twisty4678

Pinside member

East Aurora, NY

8y 31,550 164 5

This the the best I've been able to do with cleaning the clear off of the inserts. I've tried x-acto chisel blades, an actual chisel, goo gone, and a dremel.

My new approach is the scrape any loose chips of clear off and call it a day. Seeing as the insert decals aren't going to be perfect or a permanent solution, why bother any more especially since all attempts have failed and the final plan will be a new playfield a couple years down the line. Should still be a good players game using this approach, right?

image (resized).jpeg

0

#3581 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Quoted from UvulaBob:
When you say "feather", do you mean try to create a smooth gradient between the lump and the rest of the flat playfield?

yes.

Quoted from UvulaBob:
Does that mean my flat playfield is going to have a slight rise over that spot? Is that going affect the sanding of the rest of that area with a flat sander?

It will be too small of a rise to ever notice.

Just be careful when you sand not to go too far!

0

#3582 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Quoted from twisty4678:
Should still be a good players game using this approach, right?

They look very nice.

Should be a great players game.

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1

#3583 7 years ago

JAB

twisty4678

Pinside member

East Aurora, NY

8y 31,550 164 5

Thanks vid

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#3584 7 years ago

JEF

yellowghost

Pinside member

Winnipeg, MB

7y 44,550 1,059 7

I have a question for you Mr. Vid. Have you had any experience with one component urethane. Two part is not readily available to me. The brands that are frequently mentioned anyway. But the local autobody supply sells a self levelling urethane. The brand name elludes me at the moment. KGB or something similar to that..

Thanks
Jeff

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1

#3585 7 years ago

SMM

dr_nybble

Pinside+ Frequent

Ottawa, ON

10y 114K 3,538 15

KBS Diamond Finish -- others have used it, use the search to find posts about it.
You can get SprayMax 2K from Maple Airbrush in Edmonton.

0

1

#3586 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

KBS is water based, so they warn that it will raise the grain of bare wood.

Make sure all your wood fibers are sealed before trying to use it.

0

#3587 7 years ago

LER

Lermods

Lermods Pinball Co.

11y 201K 10,851 58

Have a gottlieb atlantis with a few inserts that are cupped. Whats the best approach to fix these? Hard tonsee in the pics, but they are sunken a bit in the middle and worn on the edges.

Thx

20161001_085226 (resized).jpg
20161001_085245 (resized).jpg

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2

#3588 7 years ago

MCD

dasvis

Pinside member

Salem, OR

12y 101K 4,796 11 16

Quoted from Lermods:
Have a gottlieb atlantis with a few inserts that are cupped. Whats the best approach to fix these? Hard tonsee in the pics, but they are sunken a bit in the middle and worn on the edges.
Thx

Read the guide, it's been covered many times already.

0

#3589 7 years ago

LER

Lermods

Lermods Pinball Co.

11y 201K 10,851 58

Quoted from dasvis:
Read the guide, it's been covered many times already.

I searched the guide and didnt see anything for older em games. Seems filling with 2 pac is what is suggested, but wasnt sure for older games.

0

#3590 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Quoted from Lermods:
I searched the guide and didnt see anything for older em games. Seems filling with 2 pac is what is suggested, but wasnt sure for older games.

Filling with 2PAC works great on older EMs.

It reinforces the insert, so it stops any further cupping.

Make sure you level the inserts and then glue them in place before you start.

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1

#3591 7 years ago

JAB

twisty4678

Pinside member

East Aurora, NY

8y 31,550 164 5

Couldn't get all the clear residue off but I think it came out pretty good. Thanks again for the advice vid.

image (resized).jpeg

0

#3592 7 years ago

KWF

Fytr

Pinside member

11y 101K 3,404 8

I have a Flash Gordon project that I just picked up that has had a new playfield overlay installed and cleared over. I didn't strip the playfield or do the overlay work but now need to reassemble the top of the playfield.

While tumbling the metal bits I noticed that 2 of the 4 wireform guides are missing one end/leg. I believe these are the larger ones used to divide the in/outlanes.

So 2 questions:

How do I go about removing the metal bit left in the playfield? Note that I'm not even sure which holes have the piece in them since I haven't attempted to open the holes through the overlay yet.

I was thinking drilling it out but because the flanged piece is broken off in the playfield seems like you'd want to drill from below but there is no way to tell where to drill from the bottom.

Maybe best bet to install new wireforms just to one side of the original holes instead? Might make the game easier though.

Also, where can I get replacement wireforms?

Any advice is appreciated.

IMG_9544 (resized).JPGIMG_9545 (resized).JPG
IMG_9546 (resized).JPG

0

#3593 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Quoted from Fytr:
How do I go about removing the metal bit left in the playfield? Note that I'm not even sure which holes have the piece in them since I haven't attempted to open the holes through the overlay yet.

Using a punch, drive the broken leg all the way through the playfield.

You will see a slight doming on the back as it gets close if you want to drill a relief hole.

Quoted from Fytr:
Also, where can I get replacement wireforms?

You just bend new ones.

Marco sells a kit http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/12-WS-KIT

2

0

-2

#3594 7 years ago

SWF

Nighthawk128

Pinside member

Edmonton, AB

11y 40,550 348 2

Quoted from twisty4678:
Vid I tried to scrape the clear coat residue from the tops of my AFM inserts to prepare for decal install. I tried using an brand new 1/4 inch chisel at a 90 degree angle with gentle strokes. It appears to be removing some of the insert as well, as I'm getting red residue. Am I stuck with having to tape and sand each insert at this point? Thanks as always.

OMG....

I'll give you 500$ for that game

0

#3595 7 years ago

SWF

Nighthawk128

Pinside member

Edmonton, AB

11y 40,550 348 2

Quoted from UvulaBob:
The problem is that the parts I've circled in red are actually bumps. They're higher than the rest of the clear coat. If I run sand paper over them, I'm afraid I'll break through the clear and end up sanding the decal. I've done that on accident before, an it's not pretty.
I mean, I suppose it'd only end up looking a bit worse than it does now. Maybe I can get it smooth enough to lay another decal over it, apply another final layer of clear on Monday, when it's warmer, and block sand that down to a final sheen.

If that's the only spot on the playfield, why not leave it alone.. just enjoy the game

2

0

-2

#3596 7 years ago

SWF

Nighthawk128

Pinside member

Edmonton, AB

11y 40,550 348 2

Quoted from PhilGreg:
Hard to tell for the bubbling because I went with an xacto knife and cut out the middle of the inserts. I did one large decal for the indian's face and that one has no bubbling so I'd say it's only over the black print.
Yes, I did some filling already, but I'll see how flat it is after I wet sand it and will refill if needed. I'm now almost out of my red mix so I hope I don't have any issues this time around. I'm using Createx and I've been sporadically working on this playfield for over a year, and I had to refill the paint with some water to get it to a correct viscosity.
I did the same with the blue with no problems though, so I think it probably is because it didn't cure long enough...

Send your playfield to HSApinball or play the damn game. Your ruining a perfectly good pinball machine!

500$ is all I'll give you when your done

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1

#3597 7 years ago

JAB

twisty4678

Pinside member

East Aurora, NY

8y 31,550 164 5

Quoted from Nighthawk128:
OMG....
I'll give you 500$ for that game

No thanks, it actually came out great.

0

#3598 7 years ago

BOB

UvulaBob

Pinside member

Revere, MA

10y 33,900 750

I'm getting ready to use some brad-head drill bits for the holes in my cleared playfield, and I'm seeing mentions of turning the bit by hand. Does this mean I turn the bit itself with my hand, or should I pick up some kind of bit vice that I can use?

Also, what sizes should I pick up?

0

#3599 7 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside+ Member

Sana'a

12y 164K 40,194 18

Quoted from UvulaBob:
I'm getting ready to use some brad-head drill bits for the holes in my cleared playfield, and I'm seeing mentions of turning the bit by hand. Does this mean I turn the bit itself with my hand, or should I pick up some kind of bit vice that I can use?
Also, what sizes should I pick up?

Razor sharp Brad tips can just be hand held.

Just get the small set of 7 from most stores. It will cover all the popular sizes.

0

#3600 7 years ago

BOB

UvulaBob

Pinside member

Revere, MA

10y 33,900 750

A set has two - maybe three - of the sizes I need. Will one set be enough for a playfield? If I'm going to end up buying more than one set, I may as well buy the individual bits.

Also, with a newly-cleared playfield, should I go with full-playfield mylar, or just on the most common wear spots? If I wanted to get full-playfield mylar, what would be the best way to do that? Just get a full sheet and trim it to fit before putting anything back onto the playfield?

By vid1900

11 years ago

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