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Bally, 1978
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Bally, 1991
Space Jam
Sega, 1996You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider vid1900.
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Quoted from Plumonium:Also, will "light sanding" take care of the bumpiness here and won't show up through the clear or something needs to be done?
Light sanding will NOT take care of the bumpiness.
The sanding gives the tooth to the first layer of clearcoat.
Your latter coats of clear will bury the raised wood grain underneath the clear.
Quoted from Plumonium:If you got to apply frisket over an area that's already been touched up with water slide decals, how to prevent the frisket to lift the decals?
You have to put a thin layer of clear over the decal.
It is very fragile stuff until cleared.
Quoted from dr_nybble:What technique do you suggest to fill these pits?
Carefully match the color, wipe paint into pits, allow paint to set up for a few minutes, then wipe off extra paint - leaving only paint that is actually in the pits.
Don't wipe paint into white areas by accident, as the old white paint is very porous (don't ask me how I know that).
Quoted from Silverstreak02:How do I smooth the puckered areas that were left when I removed screws and posts from the playfield? I plan to clear coat soon.
You can use Doming Punches, or the butt end of a nut driver handle.
Quoted from Plumonium:Is it 100% necessary to strip of parts the back side of a playfield to clearcoat? How to deal with it then? remove switches, plug holes?
Quoted from swanng:Vid-
Are you ever going to be availabe to provide playfield restoration services in the future?
Still waiting to have Spirit done......................
I'm still abroad, putting the demon in democracy.
One day I'll quit, get fired, or be killed.
If it's one of the first two scenarios, I'll have all the time in the world to restore more playfields
Quoted from PhilGreg:for printing water slide decals, is this the right stuff?
http://www.decalpaper.com/category-s/3.htm
That's it.
Quoted from PhilGreg:And I have this printer at work, good 'nuff?
https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/support/details/copiers-mfps-fax-machines/support-multifunction/imagerunner-3245i
Looks like it should work.
Just remember, you need to run the machine COLD.
That means that it can't be running all day before you put that decal paper in it.
Your decals should be the FIRST thing that gets printed in the morning, as soon as the power switch is turned on.
Quoted from PinballShoppe:BTW, for any Kiwi readers who were as confused as I was when I started reading this thread, Napthha is turps (mineral turpentine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_spirit
Hashtag tastygoodness
Before everyone starts going crazy, Naphtha is NOT Turpentine
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Turpentine is an oily solvent that takes a long time to evaporate.
Naphtha evaporates quickly, leaving nothing behind.
In NZ, it appears that Fuelite is Naphtha (at least according to the 1999 data sheet):
https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/andrew-fuelite-1-litre-clear/p/362007
Quoted from Silverstreak02:Vid
I have a question related to the order I need to do things. I'm doing a clear coat on my 76 Space Mission game. Overall it's in good shape, but the key lines need to be touched up and the inserts are cupped pretty bad. I have black Creatix paint for the key lines and have practiced with my airbrush on a flat surface. The results are very fuzzy and uneven circles. Some of the problem is cutting the frisket perfectly and the other is getting paint under it. I made a metal circle template, but I still can't get it perfect. Whatever the issue is it is worse than just leaving it alone. I've decided to get a small brush and do minor touch-up just where it is needed. So back to my question. What is the best order to do this considering my limitations? As always thanks for the great advice.
I'd just print a sheet of keyline decals.
They will be perfectly round, easy to apply.
I use them on almost every playfield.....
Quoted from Drain_Flippero:Hello Vid,
I'm very greatful for your posts, because I'm new to the hobby, and was using Milwax for cleaning since day one, because I thought, well it has a pinball on it, must be O.K., right? Now I know better! Thank you! I also installed your number one mod: New balls!
Now my question: Is there a 'magic number' of games when one should replace the balls again? Or how do replace worthy balls look like? I have a 'Dark Knight' so the balls are getting pretty beaten up, because of the metal crane I would think...
Any suggestions?
Thank you again for all your advice,
Drain
A couple times a year is probably right for most homes.
I always replace them before an expo, and then immediately after the show. The game will probably get more plays in 4 days, than it does all year, lol.
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Hold the ball next to a new ball and look at the reflection of your black t-shirt.
Balls that are still good have a "deep black" look to them, and worn balls are grey.
At $1.50 - when in doubt, toss 'em out.
Quoted from swanng:Hey Vid-
Have you addressed how to repair screw holes in the playfield art that were caused by a dipstick putting in a longer screw than was necessary under the PF? How to go about leveling the raised area without causing further damage to the screened art and sealing the hole (from under the playfield) would be a good topic, methinks if it hasn't been addressed already.
Thanks
Take the round butt of a nutdriver or a doming punch and tap the raised area slightly below the surface of the playfield.
Fill hole with a drop of clearcoat.
Quoted from hisokajp:I can feel some of my insert edge now which make me feel like I may have sanded even some of the factory CC on a NOS PF...
Usually if you sand through to the factory clear, you get a halo effect because the auto clear is harder than the factory clear.
Does it still smell like solvent when you sand?
Quoted from codered9394:Do have any tips or steps for installing a overlay. Fixing to do my first overlay and your knowledge would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Vid
Sorry, overlays are not my area of expertise.
Fill all cupped inserts, clearcoat and sand dead flat.
If the overlay manufacturer says it's OK, then clearcoat over the decal to protect the ink.
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:What is the best/easiest way to repair these yellow stoplights on my Getaway. Seems like a lot of detail with the fine black lines.
Paint the squares sold yellow.
Then apply a decal with all the detail and keylines.
Quoted from Jgaltr56:It looks like the clear may be lifting around some of the inserts. I guess I'm okay with it if it's not going to get any worse but I'm concerned it will start chipping. What would you do?
Hard to say without knowing what they tried to clear it with.
If they did not prep the playfield, it may keep peeling.
Quoted from songofsixpence:Hi - wanted to comment on the Gradient tool instructions from a while back:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/29#post-2024747
I have been working to clean up in photoshop my trashed DE Batman. On this part, you can see on the stairway and columns on the right have a brown, gradient-dot patternAfter a few, fun-filled hours of cleaning up the imperfections and rebuilding Batman, and Vicky Vale
This would probably be good enough... but I wanted to do better. I traced out the area, and following the instructions, drew, and redrew the gradient about 5 times, before it finally locked on
Very happy with the result!
Excellent work!
Quoted from Jgaltr56:I was lucky to find this "survivor" Flash Gordon. It has a few small wear spots that I'd like to prevent from getting worse. I'm thinking of a spot clear to seal the wood then mylar. Wax and play. What would you do?
Wax, then Mylar.
That will keep if from getting worse; and the wax should allow the Mylar to be removed at a latter date for full restoration. (and that playfield looks like an excellent candidate for restoration)
Quoted from UvulaBob:Assuming the Oramask won't pull it up, is there any reason I can't use the Createx Top Coat Gloss finish on color 1 before moving on to color 2? Is that going to be a problem with the 2-part auto clear down the line?
I've never tried it, so please report your results.
I just shoot 2PAC between colors to lock it down.
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:Either way, what exactly do you recommend: material, thickness, finish (gloss or matte), etc., and where are the best places to acquire it?
Marco sells the stuff I use by the foot:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MFT
Quoted from Jgaltr56:What about Avery self laminating sheets. Anyone have an opinion on why or why not to use this?
I'd skip those.
Not as tough or shiny as Mylar.
...and who knows what kind of adhesive they use.....could be a disaster a few years down the road.
Quoted from jimy_speedt:Hello, I purchased a AF pin in average condition. There was a formerly clear sticker on the playfield, not a mylar. On the orange part of the pic, there are vertical cracks.
Can I get this part neat by wet sanding the surface ? thanks
That's Planking, and no wet sanding will fix it.
(Even if you wet sanded anyway, the water would absorb into the exposed wood fibers and make it worse)
Thank goodness someone put clear vinyl over that section of the playfield, or it would have been totally ruined from the ball bouncing over the uneven wood fibers.
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Time for a clearcoat (or wax the area and put down fresh Mylar)
Quoted from jimy_speedt:So if I have read carefully, magic eraser with isopropyl, then clear coat ?
Alcohol might absorb into the wood and further raise the grain.
Quoted from jimy_speedt:I do not intend to strip the whole playfield, and I gave up with the gun+compressor, my house suffered when I tried
Like Lb1 said, if you "spot clear" in the center of a playfield, the edge tends to lift up.
Just like a car, you really can't just spot clear, or it peels.
That's the busiest part of the entire playfield, so any exposed edge is going to get damaged.
Quoted from jimy_speedt:can I use a foam brush to put the clearcoat over the damaged areas ? I have the good clearcoat.
Good 2PAC clear will probably melt a foam brush, making an even bigger mess.
You would have to carefully sand with 800grit, then apply the clear.
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:Forgive me if this has been asked before, but is there any reason why I couldn't mylar the entire playfield of Volley after using some eyedropper applied 2pac to level the inserts, rather than clear coat the playfield? Pros and cons? The only thing that continues to be an issue on this machine is the cupped inserts. Otherwise, the playfield has no wear.
Some operators would Mylar the entire playfield for 24 hour games (college campus, truck stops, diners.....), so you could certainly do that.
You could also get some .75mm polycarbinate at any local plastic store, and rout out the slots and holes.
Quoted from jboner1058:Hey Vid, what is the best gold paint for gottliebs and data east playfields. I can't seem to find any matches that won't react with clear.
I think the Jacquard "true gold" was the match, but honestly I have not bought any in so long that the labels are all different now (and maybe the formulas....)
Quoted from desertT1:I have a Special Force where the flipper mech base detached from the playfield. The way some of the screw holes are worn on this game I wouldn't be shocked if most of the holes holding the flipper assy on are stripped. Can I pack the holes with something and drill them out again for screws, or something stronger than wedging toothpicks in there?
Get some wood skewers (like for BBQ); much thicker than toothpicks.
Put squeeze of glue in hole.
Tap in skewer with hammer.
Cut off flush with wire cutters.
You don't have to wait for the glue to dry, just screw your plate back in.
Quoted from twisty4678:Hey Vid. I have a couple questions. My AFM has bad insert damage. I ordered laminated decals from planetary pinball. How long do you think these will last without clearcoating? I was under the impression that the lamination makes them pretty durable, but a friend thinks they won't last a year. I'm not in a position to do a full restoration, so I'm hoping the decals will look nice and stop some of the ball deviation I have now. Thanks!
They will last 9 to 12 months, depending on how much you play.
A slow moving ball will still deviate along the edge of the decals.
Quoted from UvulaBob:We just had our last day over 70 degrees, and I've heard you say that anything under 70 means the clear will come out misty.
Professional paint shops usually keep their booths at 70*F.
Use the fast or slow hardeners if you are above or below that temp.
Quoted from UvulaBob:IMG_3306 (resized).JPGIt's definitely dimpled, but it feels like a new playfield that's been dimpled after some use. I don't think this is the kind that will mess with the ball too much.
You need to block sand that playfield.
Sanding will get rid of all that rough surface.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Any special considerations when clearing over a Diamond Plated playfield? Clean, sand with 600, and spray. Anything specific to DP that I should be aware of? (late system 11)
DP is much easier than normal sys11, so it should go well.
Sand with 800 for some tooth
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:What's the best cleaning material to get those deep dirt and grime scars out of the DP before clear/touch up.
Alcohol and Magic Eraser is usually good on DP playfields.
Quoted from UvulaBob:I would, but I just found a problem. There's a spot where a decal has folded under itself, so it's raised just a bit above the rest of the playfield. I don't know if it'll ever be rolled over by a ball, since it real close to a border, but I'm worried that if I sand it, that part will get snagged and that spot of the decal will be ruined. I suppose I could lay another decal on top of it to try to make it look OK, and then put another layer of clear on it.
What do you think?
Lets see a picture of what you have there.
Quoted from twisty4678:Which attachments would you reccommend? Were you able to get the inserts clear with this method?
You don't even have to worry about them being "clear".
Wipe the insert with Naphtha to see how good it will look once cleared.
Quoted from twisty4678:Unfortunately I won't be clearing it vid, I'll be using playfield insert decals. The playfield is too chipped to be worth fully restoring. I will be getting a new playfield down the line after the decals wear out and I have sufficient funds.
You can level the playfield, then drip in some Clearcoat to completely level that insert. Then just apply the decal on top.
This will strengthen the insert, and give you a totally flat playfield.
Quoted from UvulaBob:This is the best my wife can do with her phone. I can try to get something clearer tonight, though.
Good enough pic.
Carefully sand it flat, and just drip some clear into those holes. It will be dry in a hour.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:My question is how the inserts are inserted and cleared from the factory. Many of the inserts have lifted slightly, usually just barely on one side, creating wear on the high side. The clear on top of the insert is uniform to the insert, i.e. no cracking around the edges.
That insert looks pretty normal for a game of that era. Playfield looks in good shape.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Do I need to reglue these inserts?
Yes, heat with hair dryer on both sides, use 12" c-clamp and press them back flush with the playfield. Re-epoxy once it cools from the backside.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration#post-551406
Do maybe 5 seconds on top, then 5 on bottom - keep alternating for about a minute. You can melt the insert if you get too crazy.
Don't pull the insert out unless it's cracked.
Any 2 part epoxy (the kind you mix together) is probably fine.
Quoted from UvulaBob:OK. If you don't think there's any danger of ruining the decal in that spot, I'll do it.
Should I drip the clear on there before starting the sanding, or after?
Gently sand first, by hand, checking for damage after each stroke.
The moment you have sanded enough to give the clear some tooth, clean with Naphtha, and put a drop of clear over the spot.
Allow to dry, and feather in the repair.
Quoted from UvulaBob:When you say "feather", do you mean try to create a smooth gradient between the lump and the rest of the flat playfield?
yes.
Quoted from UvulaBob:Does that mean my flat playfield is going to have a slight rise over that spot? Is that going affect the sanding of the rest of that area with a flat sander?
It will be too small of a rise to ever notice.
Just be careful when you sand not to go too far!
Quoted from Lermods:I searched the guide and didnt see anything for older em games. Seems filling with 2 pac is what is suggested, but wasnt sure for older games.
Filling with 2PAC works great on older EMs.
It reinforces the insert, so it stops any further cupping.
Make sure you level the inserts and then glue them in place before you start.
Quoted from Fytr:How do I go about removing the metal bit left in the playfield? Note that I'm not even sure which holes have the piece in them since I haven't attempted to open the holes through the overlay yet.
Using a punch, drive the broken leg all the way through the playfield.
You will see a slight doming on the back as it gets close if you want to drill a relief hole.
Quoted from Fytr:Also, where can I get replacement wireforms?
You just bend new ones.
Marco sells a kit http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/12-WS-KIT
Quoted from UvulaBob:I'm getting ready to use some brad-head drill bits for the holes in my cleared playfield, and I'm seeing mentions of turning the bit by hand. Does this mean I turn the bit itself with my hand, or should I pick up some kind of bit vice that I can use?
Also, what sizes should I pick up?
Razor sharp Brad tips can just be hand held.
Just get the small set of 7 from most stores. It will cover all the popular sizes.
Quoted from Plumonium:Hey vid,
About storing playfield, I guess any piece of wood would work as rails to straighten the playfield? Hard wood most likely.
Do you simply screw along the sides and top and bottom or at a few place in the middle as well?
Most importantly, do you use exiting holes for top side rails or screw in fresh wood? Does this leave holes when the playfield is ready to use?
Any pictures how you do it?
I use the existing rail holes, but I put the rails on the back of the playfield for storage.
Storage rails are just scraps of Baltic Birch plywood, with the screws entering the "endgrain"
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:I completely forgot to sand the Diamond Plate playfield before I cleared... as in, no 800 grit sanding to "give it the tooth"
What can I expect?
The clear will start to lift off in high impact areas.
Did you at least get all the wax off with Naphtha before you sprayed?
Quoted from marspinball:Here is something I shouldn't have to fix but what's the best thing to do with a chip in the shooter lane on a new machine. I contacted Stern and they have sent me a small bottle of clear coat and a small sheet of sandpaper (200).
Is that chip still attached, or has it come off the playfield?
Quoted from zacaj:Vid, I've been wondering about this 'wax before mylar' thing. If I put down a nice coat of wax and then mylar some spots, and five years later peel up the mylar, is the wax still going to protect the paint from peeling up, or is it just a temporary thing? Two years? Ten years? Is the reason why paint comes up on old games because they didn't bother waxing first back then, or....? How much safer does it make the mylar removal (in the short term)? Are we talking 0% chance of paint coming up (as long as the paint is in good condition), or just a 50%? What about over large wear spots? I've got some places on my Spectrum where there's two inch areas with no paint left, and was considering how/if to protect them from getting worse. Is the chance of taking up paint higher? (none of it seems to be flaking)
There are a lot of variables to consider there.
Different companies made Mylar over the years, and different adhesives were used.
Playfields that have been in unconditioned spaces (like a garage) will loose paint much easier.
But waxing with a real paste Carnauba wax (not some fake liquid "wax"), and using the Mylar that Marco sells by the foot on a roll, it seems that any intact paint stays intact upon removal.
Quoted from zacaj:And you don't think that, all other conditions (humidity, temp, etc) being good, the wax will lose its effectiveness at paint preservation over time?
I think that the wax will still be sealed under the Mylar until 2050 at least.
Think of it this way: Factory Mylar that gets installed before any wax touches the playfield is difficult to remove. Aftermarket Mylar, put on after the game has been placed on route, is much easier to remove.
Quoted from marspinball:It actually fell out and I found the piece at the bottom of the cabinet. I saved it just in case.
Part of the chip is in the shoulder of the shooter lane. That part is still attached to the playfield.
If the chip has fallen out, then I'd gently sand the wood and maybe 5mm around the chip.
Lay down a few THIN layers of clear.
Cover the repair with Mylar after it dries for a week.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Is there anything I can do about the playfield now it's cleared. Several coats last night.
It is diamond plate. Worth sanding off and start again?
I cleaned it VERY well.
It would be untold hours of work to sand off. Something bad is bound to happen, like a sandthrough or art coming off the inserts.
I'd just play it and see.
Quoted from desertT1:If I need to get triple thick off glass, is there something that does that better than others? Sprayed an EM backglass and didn't put tape down over the clear areas and now the reels are harder to see.
Use a BRAND NEW single edge blade, works great
Quoted from jaystile:I have this same exact issue on my premium, but I have an additional chip where the cutout is. My larger 'bubble' is just crackled right now. Vid, is the best procedure to sand out all the cracked clear before reapplying?
the little bottle from Stern is just clear nail polish, not actual 2PAC clearcoat.
If you had real 2PAC, you might be able to inject it into the crack with a syringe to do the repair.
Quoted from jboner1058:Just found a half bottle of mill wax in the coin box of a close encounters ss. It just needs some minor touch ups around the inserts and a couple inserts replaced. Am I doomed to use mylar? Will I be able to fill the cupped inserts due to the mill wax?
You may get a few fisheyes around the inserts where the wood fibers have absorbed the silicone.
If this happens, then rough up the fisheye with 100grit and refill the hole.
It's not fun, but you can fix it with a little extra effort.
Quoted from Fred736:As for the shiny part, that's kind of a conundrum! Decals stick to shiny but the following coat of clear needs to be on sanded clear. So what would be the happy medium in terms of sanding grit that would work for both?
You can "sand around" the decaled areas, leaving the areas that will be receiving decals shiny - then hand sand as close as possible to the installed decals.
Some brands of clear say you can recoat up to 48 hours without sanding, so that is another possibility; assuming you can get all your decals installed within that window.
Quoted from clg:I am looking at STTNG that has been sitting for a long time. Some of the inserts have very slightly sunken, you can feel it with your finger but it would not affect play. I am concerned about the wear it could generate it is a small enough drop it may not even cause wear. This applies to about a dozen inserts.
Any suggestions about how to approach this?
You can wax and then Mylar over them.
Or you can fill the gaps with 2PAC to prevent wear.
Quoted from EvanDickson:The people I bought my DW from removed the mylar (I'm assuming there was mylar) and touched up some paint that came off. They did a great job color matching, but it seems they didn't apply the heat gun after, when I cleaned the playfield the touch up paint came half off. What's the best way to completely remove it without causing smearing or damage to other paint? I'll touch it up again and then put my shiny new playfield protector over the thing.
Ask the guy who did the touchups what kind of paint he used.
Quoted from gregh:I'm thinking if I mask and repaint all the block colors i'll be fine, but my concern is the "dotted gradients" in the mountains and clouds. I don't see and way of painting these areas properly. I had a thought of producing the decals for these areas, painting the solid colors, then clearing? In theory this will work. Thoughts?
Half Tone Gradients are an easy fix:
Quoted from Chosen_S:Vid, might you please explain the speeds you use on your buffer with the 3 different meguiar compounds? I have a dewalt multi speed that does anywhere between 600-4000 rpm... kind difficult to know
Impossible to give that advice unless we all have the same brand pads, compounds, and polishers.
A wool pad that you may use for heavier cutting probably would be at 2500RPM, a final polish with foam pad and Machine Glaze would probably be at 1800RPM. Try those speeds, but don't be afraid to bump it up or down.
I'm not sure how accurate the dial is on any polisher. Even when I buy a new one of the same brand, it seems to have a different feel.
Like always, test on the area under the apron before moving on to the more visible areas.
Sorry for the crappy answer, I wish I had a better one for you.
Quoted from gregh:And future isn't a wax, it's a liquid acrylic finish. There is no mention of silicon in the ingrediants list at all.
I've never heard of it, so I assumed it was a wax.
Does it list all the ingredients on the package?
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Vid, I've made great use of the rotisserie recipe you provided.
Glad to hear it!
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Any plans for a pinball dolley? something to easily move them around a house/flat surface?
I've been working on a design that would move them around and safely flip them upright too, but it would need to be welded - no way I can see how to make it a bolt together.
Once I get it perfected, I'm sure I'll post the step by step.
Quoted from DaWezl:I'm going to be shopping out my first project EM later this month, and I'm trying to decide if I should attempt fixing the playfield at the same time. I've worked as a professional artist and done extensive color matching, so a lot of the steps shown here seem very do-able to me. I don't have a lot of experience dismantling and reassembling mechanics though. Is it crazy to jump into everything at once? Or should I spend time really getting to know the mechanics of my pin before I worry about the aesthetics?
Sounds like you are overqualified for playfield restoration.
Put some bright lights on the playfield, take 500 pictures from every angle as you disassemble.
Group small parts in labeled ziplock bags.
Post on Pinside as you teardown and restore.
Quoted from HighVoltage:I reviewed the chips and gouges write up, but still wondering what approach I should take, for this high-impact post. I have both 2-part clear epoxy glue, and 2-part wood filler epoxy "Woody". I've used the woody before for gouges around holes, but always covered with a cliffy after, so not sure how it would hold up to beating. Which compound should I use? Is either strong enough for a screwed-in (as opposed to tnut or washer/nut at the bottom)? Will a tnut secure firmly back into the epoxy, or should I tried to embed while still soft?
Get some Maple dowel just a hair bigger than the enlarged hole (lets say 3/16").
Using a fresh drill bit, drill out the enlarged hole to the Dowel size (again 3/16").
Cut a 1/2" slice of dowel.
Using Titebond3, slather inside the hole AND the dowel piece, tap dowel flush with top playfield surface.
Once dry, redrill proper hole size from top, then drill enlarged hole **just** enough for a new Tnut from the back.
Install post. If you use a long screw, you can put a locknut on the backside of the playfield to hold against the Tnut.
Quoted from HighVoltage:Is "hardwood" dowel that Home Depot has good enough, or do I really want to find Maple specifically? Looks like HD lists hemlock, oak, aspen, basswood, and "hardwood", but no maple.
Probably good enough, but if you want something Maple, go to Woodcraft in Seattle
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Ok... I've reassembled eight ball deluxe and for several months been playing.
The only thing I can't solve is the slings. I keep getting the coil to repeat fire, 3,4,5,6 times after the ball hits the rubber. I've adjusted and adjusted. I'm to the point where I think I have the wrong switches... i.e. too flimsy and they just bounce back and forth several times making contact. In order to correct it as is... I have to adjust the gap WAY too wide, which on gentler hits the sling never fires.
I've adjusted the rubber for tension. I've adjusted the switches. Both sides do this, but the right is noticeably worse.
This is the LAST thing to make this machine play perfect. And it's driving me nuts.
Do you have a recommendation for switches?
I don't think it's the switches.
I think you have the wrong rubber size.
Go down one size (if you think you need a 3", go to 2.75").
Quoted from pinheadpierre:My main questions concern the rest of the mylar as I understand that system 9 can be prone to paint loss upon removal
Sys9-11 playfields were total Williams garbage.
Try heat to remove that Mylar, but scan the whole playfield first, because I would expect some paint loss.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:and then the crazing.
Pretty much every Comet playfield looks like that. nice under the Mylar, crazed like crazy outside the Mylar.
If nobody over the years has added anything over that crazing, you **might** be able to remove it with ME + 96% Isopropyl.
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Most likely, you'll end up repainting 90% of the playfield.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Thank you, Vid!
I have removed mylar via freezing it with an upside down can of air. Is the heat method better in some way?
Often freezing removes paint from older, poor condition playfields.
I have had much better luck with heat.
On newer playfields from the 90s onward, freeze works better.
Quoted from desertT1:Is removing glue after the mylar is gone supposed to be a decent amount of effort? I imagine on iffy paint that you will lose a lot of paint surrounding the glue as you wipe that area.
There are many different brands of playfields, brands of Mylar, and many different ways they have been stored over the years.
No one can tell you exactly how much effort will be required.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Wrong size provided in kit. Correct size fixed it.
I'm really tired of cheap pinball kits that don't have the parts you need.
Trend in this hobby...
Thanks vid.
Many times the owners manual will spec larger sizes because the composition of the rubber has changed over the years.
PBR seems to have the rubber that has the closest formula to the old stuff.
You always need extra slingshot rubbers around the shop, so keep 2.5, 2.75, 3 and 3.5" in stock.
Quoted from Fytr:Stern sent me a clearcoat "repair kit" to repair the damage, but I'm wondering if I can remove the tape at all without taking a large section of the separating clear with it?
Just leave the tape in place.
Too risky to pull it, IMHO.
Quoted from Fytr:If I do remove the tape, will the Stern repair kit bring the sections with missing clear back to level with the rest of the playfield?
Stern's repair kit is just clear nail polish, so it will not create some miracle repair.
Quoted from Fytr:I have a Flash Gordon that has had an overlay applied to the playfield, and then clearcoat was applied over overlay (by someone else). Unfortunately, in the area around the saucer the overlay has lifted, probably due to the tension from the clearcoat drying.
Draw me an arrow on that pic where it's lifting.
On my phone, I'm not seeing where the problem is.
Quoted from Fytr:The entire inside slope around the hole is lifted, and somewhat lighter coloured in the photo.
Gotcha.
It's hard to know if the slope of the saucer was polished enough to accept the glue of the vinyl. It may be rough and thus tough to get the adhesive to stick.
If it was in my shop, I'd cut along the black line and remove the sloped, saucer vinyl.
I'd then paint the saucer to match the other fake wood print (it looks like it's darker underneath), and then clear over it.
Quoted from PhilGreg:So are you saying I should carefully shave away the clear by hand with the sharp bit? I just tried on a hole under the apron and it looks like it works pretty good... should I heat up first since some of the holes are kind of irregular?
If the bit is sharp, you can shave the clear AND the wood by hand, so the nail head will sit flush.
Quoted from Friengineer:I have duct tape on my Meteor playfield. I pulled the tape off successfully but there is some hardened on residue from the tape on my playfield. Any tips on removal??????
Naphtha works well on hardened duct tape residue.
On 90s and newer playfields, WD40 is faster.
Quoted from Rondogg:Noob question. I have a compressor that I use for inflating my tires. Can be plugged into a lighter or a wall. Screws right onto the tire stem.
Can I use this with one of those Harbor Freight air paint brushes?
Probably not.
The noise alone would probably make you kill yourself, let alone the low, pulsing, pressure output.
Quoted from Rondogg:What about your thoughts for a partial clearcoat? The area would really only be about 4"x8"...
It's tough to do, but I guess it's possible.
Try to map out where the edges of the new clear meet the old, and make sure those areas are places that will get no (or very little) ball travel.
Ending in protected areas like under plastics or between lanes would work.
Quoted from Rondogg:What would happen if I feathered the edges after dropping a couple of layers of clearcoat?
Just like on a car, the thin, feathered part of the clear lifts off.
That's why on autos, the repair always goes all the way to the edge of the panel...
Quoted from Rondogg:Not even regularly waxed home use only?
The edge where the clear ends is simply weak, so you need to make sure that any transition is not a high traffic area.
If there was any easy way to do it, we'd all be doing it.
Too many people permanently wreck their playfields by using water based clears that turn yellow, craft store paints that fade, vinyl decals that shrink.......
Since you don't care if the Varathane turns yellow/amber under the overlay, you can use it (although 2PAC would be WAY faster to build up a completely level surface).
Dampen the raw wood with water, allow to dry, then gently sand back the raised grain before you Varathane.
You will probably have to tone the wood of the shooter lane or it will look too white vs. the rails.
Quoted from scampcamp:Is this called crazing?
You can see that the paint has checked along the grain lines. Most would call this **planking**.
Quoted from scampcamp:How can it be fixed?
Remove the Mylar, sand, repaint, reclear.
There are pics of this exact same repair in the first few pages of this thread.
Quoted from scampcamp:Would 1 of those playfield protectors from Germany make it look good?
It will make it flat, but it won't make it look good.
They make replacement playfields in Germany - that would make it look good.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/demand-check-f14-tom-cat
Quoted from PersonX99:My question is...could I spray the clear while I am outside (in the cold) and then immediately move it into the heated garage to cure between coats? Would I get the temperature related issues if I did this?
I've never shot Spraymax (it's way too expensive compared to 2PAC), but shooting in the cold will end up a disaster.
Make sure the spray, the playfield and the garage are all up to the temp on the can for 12 hours, and shoot in the garage.
Quoted from UvulaBob:This is a far cry from the solid black lines and single-color fills of something like Taxi. How would you approach something like this?
Scan, repair in photoshop, paint solid areas, decals over the top.
See if you can find a good scan of the playfield, and that will save you all the redrawing
It looks like a natural defect in the wood, almost like it stressed out of that knot.
Where it will be covered with paint, you can just make a V-groove, cut out the loose wood and fill.
If you don't want to try painting the wood, then get a piece of Maple veneer, rout out the exposed triangle of wood up to the painted part, glue in the veneer, and stain to match the rest of the wood. Because the edge of the entire patch is hidden, no one will ever know.....
Quoted from Fytr:This is an interesting case study. Can you elaborate on the reasons why you would chose A over B, Vid?
I'd have to see them both in person to give you any meaningful reasons.
But on my phone, that is my choice.
Quoted from Nokoro:Sorry if this isn't the right place to post this
You found the right place.
Quoted from Nokoro:I have a HUO WOZ which I purchased NIB in April. I just noticed a very small hairline crack in the clear coat running from a post to and partially around an insert.
The crack going around the insert is from the plastic of the insert expanding and contracting at a different rate than the surrounding wood.
Although this sucks, you see it on a lot of games. Even though the game is still under warranty, I doubt that Jack will do anything about it.
Keep an eye on that insert and make sure it is not loose or rising from the playfield.
-
Now the crack running from the post might be a scratch from when the game was assembled.
Can we see a pic with the post removed?
Quoted from Nokoro:It does look like the crack starts (or ends) at the post hole. It looks to be more of a crack than a scratch.
Yes, it's a crack.
Good news is that is has ended on both ends, so it's not like it's going to keep cracking.
As long as that insert does not grow taller, you are probably in good shape.
Keep a close eye on it.
Quoted from tezting:Hi Vid,
Do you have any tips when cutting frisket when it is not straight? I find it very hard to get a good result when cutting around things..
A "french curve ruler" for $1 at any office supply store will do you well.
Quoted from Topher5000:My Raven has Mylar in the center of the PF. I can feel the lip & it's noticeable after waxing. Sometimes it changes the direction of the ball, usually on the slower ones. Is there a way to make the ridge any smoother?
That's been a complaint about Mylar since they first starting using it.
It just adds one more reason to the old saying that "the ball is wild".....
Quoted from Langless28:What's the consensus on covering up lettering while painting over large worn areas or frisket around existing text/ numbers while painting?
For example vid on a time warp upper play field red. Either frisket around all text or spray entire area red and add letters back in water slide form? I feel you would get better results with the water slide method?
I usually spray the entire area, and then apply the black text.
Quoted from Charger500:I have a few raised inserts on my The Getaway, High Speed II. I read earlier here that the best method was to heat it with a hair dryer or heat gun, and then press it back down with a long clamp, and re-glue with super glue underneath. Am I recalling those steps correctly? Is there a less invasive method where I could avoid removing the lamp sockets to get to the underside in order to clamp it? Could I heat it up and press it down and then glue around under and accomplish a similar result? No, I don't plan on hitting the inserts with hammers. vid1900 , your posts here have been outstanding. I've learned alot from reading through them. Thanks.
You've got to warm up the top and bottom of the insert, then press flat with a C-clamp, then glue with EPOXY from below.
Removing lamp sockets is easy pinball 101 kind of stuff, don't worry.
Quoted from dkeruza:Talking about inserts, I am fixing the Spirit Ring insert in my ToM with a waterslide decal. The problem I have is that the decal printed on clear in RED color is too transparent.
Is there any way to print more opaque with a laser printer? or is there any other way to do those letters?
I was thinking on using this EZScreenprint kit.
Laser printers usually have a darkness knob somewhere inside the unit that increases the amount of toner that sticks to the drum. It's never obvious (except on the HP3 where it's a flat green knob on black wall).
But, silkscreen is the best you can get, so that's a nice way to do it.
Quoted from Fytr:Can someone please confirm which of the wire stock available at Marcos is the size I need for this game? It appears to be 1/16" in radius, but by my rusty math skills that would work out to .125" in diameter, which is waaay larger than anything they offer for this.
Marco is selling the tempered piano wire on that page that is intended to make springy ball gates from, not wire guides.
You probably want 1/16" Stainless Steel Welding Rod to bend into those replacement parts, or if you don't want to polish it, get 1/16 "stainless rounds" at the hobby shop. 2 for $1.69:
Quoted from Charger500:And this 12 deep throat clamp would work to get to the middle of the playfield? http://www.harborfreight.com/12-inch-deep-throat-c-clamp-45919.html. I'd have to see if the 4" opening would get over the wireforms or if I'd need to remove those as well to get in there. This is starting to sound like another all weekend project.
You are not a real man unless every tool in your workshop is required for the simplest project.
Quoted from Nighthawk128:Like adding toilet paper to razor cuts, Merry Christmas to you to! Leave playfied repairs to the pros, amatures ruin playfields that's a fact
LOL
I've seen lots of big name, **pro** restorations that are terrible
Fred's work looks excellent to me.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:This is a reply to a post way back on page 39; has anybody on here used rubber washers underneath their posts? I don't know if they'd just smush too much to be effective, but the idea of a rubber pad between the post and the pf surface is appealing.
A rubber pad would alter the physics of the post, so the game would play differently than designed.
Quoted from Joey_N:My dilemma is - how do I find the fonts that halfway match the original text? I've tried those find your font sites, and no luck. Should I just redraw the letters as I would an object? Thanks..
Post your scan here and let's take a look.
If it's a totally custom font, then you have to recreate it manually.
Quoted from StratDoc:If the scans are based on the exact dimensions of my board would it be possible to use the decals or overlay without having to strip off the paint?
You will probably have to strip the paint off of the inserts, then put down a layer of clear to make sure the playfield is flat before using a big decal/overlay.
Quoted from Plumonium:There are a few screw holes the have the top layer of veneer cracked and split as you can see in the pictures, should I do anything for those?
Use the round handle of a nut driver and sink that wood below the surface of the playfield. A small amount of white glue will keep it from rising back.
Quoted from Plumonium:Is it mandatory to clear before airbrushing?
Yes, that wood is so planked that the frisket or even masking tape will probably pull up paint.
Quoted from Plumonium:Can I base clear with water based spray can varathane and do the final clear with 2pac?
Even the **non yellowing** water based varathane turns yellow over time, so that is a bad idea.
Quoted from EvanDickson:Aside from the lackluster print quality, this DW mini playfield has no holes or dimples for self drilling screws. Is that normal, or is that defective? I'm afraid if I drill into it, I'll cause faults that will propagate through the clear coat.
Sometimes playfields that were rejected, or were test subjects, never got dimpled.
Use Brad Point drill bit to score around the holes before you drill.
Quoted from newmanoconnor:Can I use a T-nut and machine threaded post almost anywhere there is a wood screw post.
Yes, as long as there is room for the T-nut underneath.
I often do this for games that should have had that reinforcement from the factory.
Quoted from newmanoconnor:Do they make wood screw posts that are a little longer than standard?
There are indeed a few sizes of them available.
Quoted from EvanDickson:Willing to bet this was a reject at this point. I sure paid full price from a popular parts distributor though
Follow up, aauuugh and FFS. I just realized the clear coat is into the threads of the tee nuts. Does anything easily remove that?
Just run a tap through them, like pinballinreno said
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Would you recommend scoring around the insert perimeters first?
No, just try to gently heat and clamp them. If the clear is still soft, it may go without a hitch.
I can't believe I missed those.
You may not have missed them. They may have been flat, but loose. The tension of the clear coat may have pulled them up.
Quoted from mof:Vid,
If a playfield has a clear (acrylic?) see-through portion to a lower playfield or toy with a gasket around it: (vector, black hole, fireball2) -- are those types of playfields clearcoat candidates? (I'm thinking Fireball 2)
thanks,
mof
Sure.
Just remove the clear panel before you spray.
Quoted from mof:Vid,
I'm looking to send out a few playfields to touchup and clear.
If a playfield is in great shape, and just needs some black keylines filled in, and a good clear -- but it has 4 pop-bumper mylar, what is the best approach? (I'm thinking Embryon)
thanks,
mof
Remove the Mylar before you clear.
Quoted from newmanoconnor:Vid, should I wax the playfield first?
All, Thanks guys, I thought they involved adhesive. I just ordered one, should keep me in better shape until CPR playfield come out.
Thanks again everyone.
Yes, wax the playfield before installation.
A nice layer of wax will help prevent the protector from abrading the highest points of the playfield.
It's just like a guitar pickguard.
When you buy a new guitar, you have to remove the pickguard and wax beneath it.
Even though the pickguard is screwed down around the perimeter, if you don't wax, you get "pickguard rash" where the tiny movements wear into the paint.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:New question: flourescent Createx paints. I've got a few spots to do on Rollergames (lots of flourescent green), so I bought a 6 pack of flourescent colors as well as of the basic colors Vid recommends. I tried spraying a pop bumper ring, but the coverage seems much thinner than the opaque white. (I then proceeded to kind of make a mess of things but peeled the paint away so I can start over once I cut a new frisket template...)
Now, it is true that I had just finished up with my white painting and washed the airbrush out, so it is possible that there was enough moisture in the brush that it thinned the paint, but the consistency of the paint also seems noticeably thinner out of the bottle. Best advice for good coverage? Also, the green out of the bottle dries darker than what's on the playfield (I knew it wouldn't be a perfect match, just thought I'd shoot some and see how it looked); would adding a small amount of opaque white help accomplish both ends in one move?
Florescent colors usually need a base coat of white before you lay them down.
Quoted from pbjack:Hi Vid,
I replaced a piece of mylar which was damaged on my Goldeneye playfield. I first waxed the area then used a piece of mylar which I got from Marco:
http://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/66-MFT
I am happy with the result but noticed that depending on the viewing angle and the lighting conditions I can sometimes see the adhesive through the mylar in some places. I would like to know if this is normal or if the cold temperatures the mylar was exposed to during shipping might have affected the glue. I pressed really hard on the mylar but it did not make a difference. It's difficult to get a good picture but here is what it looks like.
Thanks a lot for your help,
Jack
Tiny specs of dust, or dips and gaps in the playfield will produce those areas.
Nothing to worry about.
Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:Since this is the place to be for playfields I though I'd ask if getting black acrylic and a thin brush to do the black would be ok?
It will look terrible.
If it were as easy as that, the last owner would have done it.
Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:I'd rather leave it as is to show the age then do that after thinking about it.
Nothing wrong with a game looking it's age.
Same with a 60s Mustang. Better to have a small amount of rust and a few dings; than to have it repainted and look repainted.
Quoted from simplykind:How would you go about repairing insert edges like this? Looks like factory clear popping up and cracking off
Re-glue insert from the back and......
Quoted from Plumonium:Type/Brand/Mix of automotive clear that are OK and not OK, Any type they are using?
Usually, auto guys will only shoot what they are familiar with.
If you want it done cheap, you have to let them "empty the gun" from whatever clear they are currently using on a car.
But, if you are calling around, you can mention the clears used successfully in this thread, and see if any of them have experience.
Plenty of info on "how to do it" if they have questions, right in this thread.
Quoted from xsvtoys:I knew the guy from past work he did for me on cars. I told him I wanted a shot of clearcoat on it. He looked at me like I was crazy. At first he just shook his head and said no way. After I explained things to him he finally said he would do it. $250. Seems kind of high.
That's super high.
Clearly, the guy did not want the job.
There are guys on Pinside who do the complete start to finish job for that price.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:One avenue people might want to consider for "subbing out" your clear coating - I do work for a large cabinet shop that has an in-house finisher. I showed up with my cans of 2PAC and the guy knew just what to do, no questions asked, he did the preliminary clear on my playfield as well as priming and painting a reproduction pinball cabinet and backbox for $50, and told me to bring the pf back when I was ready and he would do the final clear coating (and level sanding) for no additional charge.
So, find out if there is a cabinet shop or furniture refinisher in your town. Those guys work with volatile finishes every day and are set up to work with them safely. Plus they know how these products behave and will probably need little to no explanation of what you're looking for. If your local professional is a nice person, they'll probably think it's kinda cool and want to help you out.
Nice advice.
Another popular cheap avenue is the backyard auto painters on the bulletin board at the local auto parts store.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:The halftone dots there are orange (it doesn't read that way in the photo, but they are), so a waterslide doesn't work in this application.
A color laser printer can probably do those dots.
Try to print them a little redder than you think you need, because some of that yellow will shine through.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:The blue-on-blue line art, however, is a different challenge. Should I use a waterslide to re-establish where the art goes, then put down frisket and slice through the decal?
I'd probably frisket and spray the blue, then put the black waterslide on top.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Will frisket just lift the decal off when I pull the frisket to put down a second piece of film for the second color?
Once you put a decal down, you should shoot a thin layer of clear over it to protect it.
Waterslide decals are quite fragile until you clear them.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:For the skater, waterslide decal to re-establish the lines and the number 5, then spot clear, then back to frisket and airbrush?
Hot Pink will be un-patchable, so plan on repainting all the pink, then black waterslide on top.
CPR website is being conservative because when you are dealing with the public, someone is going to screw something up.
Also the 2PAC they have in Canada may be a different formula than other countries.
You can always do a fingernail test, if you can leave a mark, it's not fully hard.
Quoted from nikpinball:Hey vid. I finally got my Mundial 90 going and I want to clean the circuit boards but also dont want to ruin anything since it's probably pretty damn difficult to replace. I believe you once said you had cleaned hundreds of circuit boards in the dishwasher. If so what soap do i use and do i nees to pull some chips out? How long to dry? Just air dry i imagine? Thanks for the help.
I'm not familiar with those boards, but looking at the picture, I'd not wash the potentiometers, relays or other mechanical devices that will fill with water.
You can just let the dishwasher dry them, they will come out hot and clean.
I'd back up those EPROMs before I did any washing, and upload them to the IPDB. You probably would never be able to find replacements if you can't burn new ones yourself.
EPROMs can bit-rot and go bad all by themselves.
Quoted from simplykind:So found out Omni only makes a fast or slow hardener. Was going to grab a fast and medium but just want to confirm fast is ok for both touchups and full sprays
The speed is for warmer or cooler shop temps (or when we want the clear to catalyze before it melts the decals, lol).
It all works the same once it's hard.
Quoted from La_Porta:Vid, regarding the HP scanner, if we are unable to find one for a reasonable amount, and we, oh, might have an old flatbed lying around, do you think that it would be possible to use? Take the closing cover off, flip it over, and fire away?
No, it does not come to focus on any model I've ever tried.
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:Only if the glass will be touching the thing your scanning. The scanner has a tiny focal length. Pull the object away from the glass and the image becomes very fuzzy quickly.
Even the thickness of the glass when you try an scan a backglass makes it out of focus.
Quoted from La_Porta:Any of you guys used anything like this to scan graphics? Seems like it could be a cheaper alternative if used correctly, especially if it's on a bare play field that you can just scan straight on:
amazon.com link »
I've tried those in the past.
Very hard to get an even, **square** scan.
They are better for scanning books than critical artwork.
Quoted from terryb:I've had pretty good luck using a rafter angle square. In the picture below I'm using the bottom of the cabinet as a guide to keep the scanner square (there's a lip on the bottom of the square). You can do the same thing in other situations by using a 2x4 as a guide (I cut off the lip on one side of the square so it will sit flat). I won't say it's the best, or easiest way, but with a little practice you can get decent scans.
Yeah, when I tried it on a playfield, I clamped a Drywall T-square across and scanned with 20% overlap.
I let Photoshop do it's Photomerge to put the scans back together.
Although I was super careful, it was nowhere as good as the HP, because you could see where some lines were not straight.
Best scanner is still the Cruse:
And don't forget, every large city has a few of those Cruse scanners for rent.
You can get an entire playfield scanned for ~$100, and any additional playfields are $40 if you bring it all in at the same time.
Bring a FAST USB3.0 jumpdrive with you or they will change you $10 for each DVD-R they burn with the scans.
Those prices seem really high.
Try calling like you did not see what the prices were (Hey, Fat Mike at Megaprintz said you guys might be able to help me....)
Tell them you are restoring an antique pinball machine (Pinball huh? I remember those!)
If they quote you a crazy price, say "Wow, that's 3x what I paid for the game! Any way you could help a brother out? I'm not in a hurry. I'll pay you entirely in cash and I can bring you guys some great coffee from this little shop I know of...."
It's worth a try, the worst that can happen is they say no.
Quoted from BrewNinja:Whats the easiest way to find someone with one? I have searched and searched, but never found a good way to find someone.
There used to be a directory on Cruse's site with "scanners for hire", but I don't see it right now.
West Iridio - Seattle www.iridio.com 206-587-0800 5050 First Avenue S. Seattle WA 98134
West Iridio - Los Angeles www.iridio.com 310-516-5331 19681 Pacific Gateway Dr. Torrance CA 90502
West Iridio - San Francisco www.iridio.com 415-318-8030 555 Minnessota Street San Francisco CA 94107
West Color One www.coloroneinc.com 206-622-7107 411 2nd Avenue Ext. S Seattle WA 98104
West Irvine Photo Graphics www.ipgdigital.com 949-261-8777 26845 Vista Terrace Lake Forest CA 92630
West Color Reflections www.coloreflections.com 702-262-9300 4600 S. Polaris Avenue Las Vegas NV 89103
West MouseGraphics www.mousegraphics.com 480-894-1992 1414 W. 14th Street Tempe AZ 85281
West Thomas Reprographics www.thomasrepro.com 602-264-6871 817 E. Indian School Road Phoenix AZ 85014
Central Cushing Photo Graphis www.cushingco.com 312-266-8228 420 W. Huron St. Chicago IL 60610
Central Pro Color www.procolor.com 800-328-7154 1401 Glenwood Avenue Minneapolis MN 55405
Central Color Reflections www.coloreflections.com 713-626-4045 3773 Richmond Avenue Houston TX 77046
Central TreeTowns www.treetowns.com 630-832-8631 542 Spring Road Elmhurst IL 60126
Central Thomas Reprographics www.thomasrepro.com 214-880-0022 2811 Maple Avenue Dallas TX 75201
Central Tri-Color www.tricolorphoto.com 248-554-9453 2605 W. Fourteen Mile Rd Royal Oak MI 48073
East Color Chrome www.colorchrome.com 800-241-2545 3174 Marjan Drive Atlanta GA 30340
East Chromatics www.chromatics.com 888-254-0063 625 Fogg Street Nashville TN 37203
East Rieger Imaging www.rieger.com 301-869-8300 22516 Gateway Center Drive Clarcksburg MD 20871
East FLM Graphics - New York www.flmgraphics.com 212-279-6392 424 West 33rd Street New York NY 10001
East FLM Graphics - Fairfield www.flmgraphics.com 973-575-9450 123 Lehigh Drive Fairfield NJ 07004
East FLM Graphics - Princeton www.flmgraphics.com 609-987-0666 741 Alexander Road Princeton NJ 08540
East Color Reflections www.coloreflections.com 877-305-7945 2960 Stirling Road Hollywood FL 33020
East Color Reflections www.coloreflections.com 215-627-4686 400 Green Street Philadelphia PA 19123
East Color Reflections www.coloreflections.com 404-352-0352 643 Antone Street Atlanta GA 30318
East Davidson & Company www.davidsonco.com 800-772-8966 1750 Lower Roswell Rd. Marietta GA 30068
Quoted from lurch:Guys ive read through a large chunk of this thread and still not sure how to proceed. My playfield has raised inserts which i plan on clamping and gluing. However, as the inserts separated from the clear, its left hairline cracks around them. Normally id just mylar over them to prevent it from getting worse, however i plan on keeping this for a while.
Is there a readily available clear i can purchase to fill these cracks?
Once you glue and clamp the inserts down, you can fill any gaps or ghosting like this:
Quoted from simplykind:So they would literally dig it out of the clear coat?
Yes.
Quoted from simplykind:If so, you'd think they would do a better job of it.
Ops did not care.
They saved $500 on a game by buying outside of their territory.
In 3 years, that game would be in the dumpster, played out.
Quoted from simplykind:Are there more examples of this out there?
Thousands.
Look at many re-imports from the early 90s.
Quoted from Pindufus:Can you provide any insight on how/where to learn how to use photoshop programs for the purpose of making decals from scans? Any particular program you prefer than others?
Here are some examples of the workflow when using Photoshop:
Photoshop works on both the PC and my Hackintosh so it's kind of universal.
A lot of people like GIMP because it's free, so that may be of interest.
Quoted from Radius118:I have the playfield completely stripped for a major shopping and polishing, so I'd like to get this repair done as soon as I can.
If it were my own game, I'd just leave it.
But for a client, I'd scrape out the cracks with an Xacto, then fill them with 2PAC.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:The first topcoat since applying the waterslide decals went on yesterday. I stopped by to have a look, and noticed a very mild "puckering" or crinkling around the edges of the inserts. It wasn't terrible, but you could see that it wasn't perfectly smooth around the perimeter of the decals (sorry, I should have taken a photograph). However, I knew I wanted my finisher to give it a level sanding anyway, so I crossed my fingers and hoped for the best.
Today I went in to have a look, and the crinkling was almost 100% gone in every spot. The only place I could still see it a little bit was on the pink "skater #5" repair spot. And even there I had to look for it. I'm going to put some mylar over that spot in the end as well, so...bullet dodged, I suppose.
Yeah, you have to just dust on the first few layers of clear over waterslide decals, or they can react badly.
Once they are covered with a dusting, they usually just melt into the playfield perfectly when the 1st real coat is applied.
Your guy probably went in a little hot.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Is there any reason I should *not* have the playfield buffed at this point? How long should it cure?
Your painter will know how long to wait before buffing because he is experienced with the conditions of his shop.
When he says it's ready, buff it to a full mirror.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:should the first "dusting" coat be allowed to cure to X amount of hours before going for a full coat? Just want to be able to give him specific feedback for next time.
Probably 15 minutes, depending on the brand of clear/hardener
Quoted from Pindufus:I've literally spent over 3 hours trying to get it off. I've soaked the area in alcohol at least 5 times but that did nothing to soften it. As a result, rolling it up in flour as suggested did nothing. I've tried a heat gun with no success. I even tried freezing it off. Again, nada. The only thing I've accomplished is wearing down the surrounding paint. It's almost like it's turned into a hard acrylic that won't even chip.
Past owner may have tried to put poly under the edge to seal it down.
I've seen that before.
Quoted from sohchx:Vid, For Stern playfields 2003 and up how would you go about repairs small spots that are down to the wood bordering inserts? This is the field in question and the wear is on the right side at letter's I and N inserts where it reads PINBALL. You will probably have to save the photo and zoom in close to see it.
Repaint the entire blue circle, not just the hole. That way it won't look like a patch as the new paint fades.
Fill with 2PAC to level it.
Wax it well, and cover the entire area with Mylar.
Quoted from patrickvc:What causes ghosting on inserts? I have a Shadow playfield I restored, cleared color sand and buff and in the last couple months I've been noticing ghosting near the insert edges. Any way other than starting over to fix?
Quoted from patrickvc:Thankyou Vid. I did read that part of the guide. I'm guessing the insert being loose after 20 years played the part in this damage. My hope is to try and glue the insert from the bottom side in hopes that it works its way into the ghosting area. Is this something that happens often? My wh20 has no issues from the same restoration techniques
That's just normal insert movement.
That is why I glue all the inserts from behind before clearcoating - try and keep them from moving.
Sometimes things move no matter what you do.....
(and no, I don't think any glue will make it from the rear to the front of the insert to fill the ghost. Sorry, at least not that I've ever seen)
Quoted from Plumonium:Well it seems my base clearcoat did not adhere very well. While installing my first frisket mask and peeling it off I noticed some flaking on the edges. I wasn't sure if it was glue from the frisket or the frisket itself, perhaps the clearcoat.
I did a test under the apron area. Maybe I was too aggressive with the exacto knife but the clear should not lift that easily... Now I'm afraid painting over this the clear to see the base clear to starting to lift and ghost all over the place down the road.
?
Does it still smell, like it's not 100% cured?
Did you cut all the way through it with the razor?
Quoted from sohchx:When doing final fine grit sanding after the final coat of clear, are you sanding a circular motion or vertical/horizontal motion?
Random motion.
Quoted from sohchx:And also, do you switch block style, or continue to use the dry wall sander?
I use an air-sander so I can wet-sand.
Quoted from sohchx:Ok, and I forgot to ask. When polishing what types of pads are you using? I wanna hit harbor freight and pick up what I need.
Thanks!!
You will need foam pads for cutting, polishing and finishing that will fit your buffer.
You will also need compounds for each pad - don't mix them up!
Quoted from Langless28:Hey Vid, restoring a time warp and removed all inserts becuase they were all loose. Cleaned old mastic from holes and would you say it's better to make inserts perfectly flush with playfield ( all cupped FYI) or push them into until they bottom out on the step of the hole? The ladder puts them just shy of flush, maybe .02".
If you can glue them against the shelf hole, they are less likely to move than if you leave them floating.
Quoted from Langless28:Yes but in your experience, would you say the .02" + cupping could be filled with clear?
Also it appears my time warp uses quantity 3 1-1/8" diameter round inserts, I cannot find these on marco or pinball life, any idea on where to get them?
Yes, no problem filling with clear.
There are some inserts that have not been available for many years.
Quoted from La_Porta:Close up, you can see that most of the inserts are practically level, if even slightly proud, they are easily pushed back down.
Those inserts should be glued back down. The glue is no longer holding.
Quoted from La_Porta:Otherwise, the pitted areas around the inserts, is it better to leave them as-is, and try to fill around them with bondo
Glue the inserts down, paint the black keyline again, then fill with clear. The valley around the insert will fill too.
Quoted from La_Porta:Lastly, the shooting lane doesn't look too bad. There's a few rough areas of grain, would these be best off filled?
Wipe it with Naphtha and see how she looks.
If it looks dirty, fill the holes with Wood Epoxy and repaint.
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:I've got some issues with a CPR silver
It does not look too bad, but you know why it was a Silver.
The playfield is usable as it, but if you want to turn this into the ultimate Pinbot:
1. leave this playfield out of the wrapper for a month in a warm place so the wood shrinks as much as it's going to.
2. Lightly wet sand the whole playfield with 600 grit to degloss it.
3. Carefully rough-up the pits where the clear did not enter. The paint won't stick if you leave them shiny.
4. Light up the inserts from behind with a flashlight, and touch up any of the black keylines around the inserts.
5. Mix up your clear, but before you spray it, put a drop in each pit around the inserts.
6. Spray 2 coats of clear, sanding each coat dead flat.
7. Polish and repopulate.
Even if you buy a brand new insert, the same **problem** may happen again the moment you spray the clear on it.
That is called "crazing" and it does not spread or get worse.
When you sand an insert to make it flat, sometimes it exposes invisible internal fractures that only appear when the clear is applied.
-
If this was a million dollar restoration, I guess you could buy 10 inserts, sand them flat, spray them with clear, and choose the best one to install.
Quoted from Fytr:Crazing sucks. We should have a "war" on crazing! Bound to be at least as effective as the "war" on drugs...
Quoted from Walamab:Thanks for the info and explanation. I don't know where'd I get a replacement anyway. I sent CPR an email enquiring if they had some "spares" to sell. No answer yet.
Even if CPR sold you one, it would probably be from the same batch.
I did a quick search and only Orange and Green appear to be available right now.
Quoted from Fytr:Bound to be at least as effective as the "war" on drugs...
Don't sell it short.
The US war on drugs was bigly successful in putting the largest percentage of the population behind bars of any country in the world.
We beat China and Russia, that's no small feat!
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:Follow ups:
1. Does my home in Florida count? We keep the house relatively cool @ 76-78.
THAT'S FINE.
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:4. Would an acrylic pen be sufficient?
I HAVE NO IDEA. CREATEX PAINTS ARE ONLY $3, WHY RISK THE UNKNOWN?
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:5. Is there a recommended clear for CPR boards?
ANY 2PAC WOULD BE GOOD.
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:6. Flat as in level surface or surface finish?
BOTH. SAND THE PLAYFIELD BETWEEN CLEAR COATS, SO THE INSERTS ARE NOT TALLER THAN THE WOOD.
Quoted from DaWezl:Apologies in advance, but I will probably have a ton of questions over the next few months as I restore my Hi-Deal playfield! I've read through this thread and read a ton of other restoration threads, so I have a general idea of the steps involved, but just to be sure, is this the order I should proceed in?
1. Repair wood gouges
2. Sand surface
3. Light coat of clear coat (sand?)
4. Repaint colors
5. Light coat of clear coat (sand)
6. Apply decals
7. Final clear coat
You are good except don't sand before decals.
They only stick to glossy surfaces.
Quoted from DaWezl:As for the clear coat questions, I did go back and look for technical info, but all of the materials seem to be for home based products, not necessarily what a professional shop might use.
No, this thread says NOT to use home based products!
Quoted from DaWezl:Thank you for clearing that up for me, Vid! I thought there might be a difference in the industrial terms vs what can be picked up by regular consumers.
All the auto paint suppliers will not sell you 2PAC or 2K if they think you are going to kill yourself spraying it.
Just like they won't sell it over the web (you have to call their toll free number and pay by credit card).
So you have to read the data about the product and ask for it like you use it every day.
If you sound like an idiot, they will refuse the sale.
You can ask a **dumb** question if you phrase it correctly. "Hey, I've never used this brand but the customer is requesting it. I'm right on the boarderline at 70*F in our shop, would you recommend the Med or Slow hardener?"
See how you act like you shoot 2K everyday, but you are only uncertain because of a new brand? See how you have read the data sheet, so you know you are on the line? The guy at the counter will gladly help you out.
Quoted from sohchx:Vid, I'm working on this right now. If it was in your hands, how would you proceed? I will never trust non adhesive Mylar after seeing this.
Non-adhesive Mylar is the dumbest thing ever invented.
It has chewed up so many Gottliebs.
You can do a conventional restoration; matching the colors, leveling the valley with 2PAC, then putting an adhesive protector on the top.
Or you can level the valley with 2PAC, and cut a new protector from 3" Mylar tape in green or blue, hiding the wear.
Quoted from Radius118:Some questions on the subject of repairing scoop holes.. I am sure it has been brought up before. I looked but can't find a posts about it in this thread or a key post.
What is the best method for repairing these? What materials?
It's the same as the shooter lane repair.
Patch with wood epoxy, paint to match.
Quoted from sohchx:So they do make colored mylar!!?? A friend and I were discussing that option if it were available just the other day and I had a feeling that it existed. I have only ever seen it sold in clear. So I would have to get the mylar as a sheet and use the old Gott mylar rings as a template to cut new ones, or are they sold pre cut?
Yes, you can get rolls or sheets of a few different colors.
Blue, green and yellow are popular colors in transformer winding tapes.
Scrapbooking stores have some adheasive sheets, but often the Mylar is in metallic colors, so YMMV.
You have to cut your own. Mylar for pinballs only comes wood grain and clear.
Quoted from WhiskeyTango:THANKS VID! WHY ARE WE YELLING?! lol
I don't have an airbrush setup yet, so I was curious about the paint pens I've seen people using. It looks like I'll get plenty of use out it so I'll just need to bite the bullet.
That's just my normal voice.
You don't need an airbrush, you can just use a #000 brush, and cover the keyline cracks.
Quoted from Radius118:How do you make sure you've got the shape right and the straight edges straight? We'll all seen pics of Monster Bash scoop holes that are destroyed. If a guy picked up a game like this to restore, there is so much wear it's near impossible to tell what the scoop was originally supposed to look like.
You can use aluminum flashing and build a dam to hold fiberglass resin, if there is a ton of material missing:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cabinet-restoration-vids-guide
Quoted from Langless28:Am I nit picking or is this shooter lane good enough for clear coat?
I'd say it needs work.
See those 2 dark spots where the ball always hits? They would tell me it's not ready.
Quoted from Langless28:Is the he idea to remove all the little ridges of dark?
The ridges look OK, just not the 2 dark areas.
Quoted from tonycip:Hi Vid I'm working on my first pf restore and Have a color question .I want to repaint the white areas most of witch are under plastics but some aren't do I paint them white like they were 30+ years ago, or do I maybe keep them a little yellowish so as not to look to bright and stick out?
It's a hard choice because:
1. Bright new white will reflect more light onto the playfield.
2. Bright new white might look "too white" if all the plastics are yellow.
You can stick down some white vinyl "contact paper" and see how it looks. If it looks OK against the plastics, you can permanently paint it.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Were there clear coats on this era of playfields? Would you expect the mylar lift to be difficult on this or fairly straight forward.
Yes, it's clearcoated.
Factory Mylar might come off easy, but some of that aftermarket stuff can be tough.
That pic makes the game look pretty nice, you might just leave the Mylar alone. No one is going to notice that little bit of ghosting on the insert.
Quoted from Langless28:Good call on the blonde as a match. Problem is it will match the sanded to old aged (also sanded) but darkens the old sanded to be out of match. Earlier on you said you cannot spot touch-up w/ shellac. Should I do all bare wood and maybe a few more passes being selective on where the new coats go? Top corner just a single coat.
You could always do white around the upper arch.
It would reflect more light in that dim area.
It will take a lot of sanding to try and get it all down to one color, otherwise
Quoted from Langless28:Then hopefully last question, you sure clear will fill up these inserts if put back into the playfield on the wood lip? Not too sunken?
Clear will fill that no problem.
If you chose to glue them flush with the playfield face, you would have to make sure that the epoxy went all the way around the wood lip for full support.
Quoted from Langless28:Is it ok for the wood areas to be left as they were, once the sanded wood is shellac'd? What I mean is I have seen CC play fields where the exposed wood areas are different shade than the areas covered by the apron, etc. Is this acceptable?
It's fine, for instance, for the under flipper shadow on an old Gottlieb be a lighter color than the surrounding wood.
Unless you are hanging the playfield on a wall, as a restorer, you need to envision how the playfield will look reassembled.
Spend your time on the parts people will see!
Quoted from RVH:The post came loose and damaged the wood on top of playfield,
I'd drill out the hole to the next dowel size.
Glue in a hardwood dowel with TightbondIII
Re-drill the proper size hole and make sure there is a washer on top and bottom.
Quoted from La_Porta:Vid, the mylar by my bumpers on the replacement play field I am working with looks like it was taken off long, long ago. There is still some adhesive residue on the play field. Do you think that will come off with the flour/alcohol method you prescribe, or being so dried out will it be especially tenacious?
Hard to say because you don't know what kind of adhesive was used.
Always start with the least invasive (flour alcohol) and move up to Naphtha, or whatever
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:I notice it in the pics, it sticks out. I'm assuming it would drive me nuts.
I also assume there's no way to fix it through the mylar?
No way to stick the edge of Mylar back down that I've ever seen work.
You can trim it back to intact adhesive and then patch in a new piece.
Quoted from mrgregb123:RE: Ghosting Inserts at Edges
Vid - maybe this has been covered elsewhere in the thread but I couldn't find anything on this specifically....
You mentioned getting a horse syringe and injecting clear under the "flap" of a ghosting insert. I have a ST:TNG with edge ghosting on Final Frontier and Return to Duty inserts. There is no flap. The ghosting portion is completely flush with the rest of the playfield. Running a fingernail across it shows not even the slightest bevel, so injection does not seem like a viable option.
I plan on clearing the playfield soon. Is it fine to chisel out the lifting part of the insert, sand it down, and then apply clear or does the entire insert have to be chiseled? Trying to avoid that since I'd then need to do decals but want to be sure it's done right. Thanks.
Post a good, well lit, focused, glass off, picture of the insert from several directions.
Quoted from mrgregb123:Sure thing...
Just take a BRAND NEW Xacto blade and make a slit into the ghosting. The clear will wick right into the gap when you inject it.
If you were not already clearing the playfield, I would not even mess with it!
Quoted from mrgregb123:OK great - so you're saying slice a line in the middle of the ghosted area, then inject the clear into that slit? You're not saying to create a flap at the edge of the insert, correct?
Don't make a flap, just make a slit.
Don't even mess with it if you are not clearcoating the playfield.
Quoted from Jimmyd044:I wanna repair this insert but I don't plan on clearing the PF when completed. I have read most of this thread and just looking for additional advice. Thanks
Quoted from nerdygrrl:Hi Vid,
I purchased an NOS cleared Dm PF a few weeks ago. It had been i storage, and upon closer inspection I noticed my the freeze inserts had started to raise. Is there anyway to fix these without having to send the PF out to be re-cleared?
If the playfield has been professionally cleared, I'd probably leave it alone.
If factory clear, the heat both sides with hair dryer and push the inserts back down with 12" C-clamp show on page 1.
Epoxy insert from behind once the insert cools, that will keep it from popping back up.
Quoted from Dewey68:Vid, how can you recreate the cloudy nature of inserts on later Williams games? I'm fixing slam-ramp damage on my NGG and had two inserts that had lifted by one of the gofers that I ended up re-gluing. I'm going to make new water slide decals for them, but they'll be clear compared to the other inserts that have a cloudy look under the ink. The original artwork was too damaged to use auto clear to hide the lifted edges.
Any tips on how to reproduce that look?
Go to any real artist store, and get some rice papers.
A layer or two give that cloudy DiamondPlate look.
I'd just remove any ghosted part. There could be contamination of who-knows-what soaked into the finish over the years.
Sand with 600 for tooth and reshoot.
Try using brand new Xacto blades, changed constantly. It's not unusual for me to use two dozen on a single playfield.
Quoted from Plumonium:I find sanding with green scotch-brite to give tooth between colors gives me satisfying result as my playfield is still not flat. How does it compare with actual sand paper?
SCOTCHBRITE GRIT CHART
3M Scotch Brite Nylon Pads:
7445 - White pad, called Light Duty Cleansing - (1000) 1200-1500 grit
7448 - Light Grey, called Ultra Fine Hand - (600-800) 800 grit.
6448 - Green (?), called Light Duty Hand Pad - (600) 600 grit
7447 - Maroon pad, called General Purpose Hand - (320-400) 320 grit
6444 - Brown pad, called Extra Duty Hand - (280-320) 240 grit
7446 - Dark Grey pad, called Blending Pad (180-220) 150 grit
7440 - Tan pad, called Heavy Duty Hand Pad - (120-150) 60(?)
Blue Scotch-Brite is considered to be about 1000 grit.
(The value inside the parentheses is directly from 3M.)
Quoted from Mikala:Vid, will I have issues using Zinsser water based clear shellac under the clear coat? It's a little late, but I did not know there where different kinds.
Impossible to say.
Not every crazy combination has been documented.
Usually water based clears are the troublemakers.
But people have used water based to seal raw wood, the overcoat with 2PAC; that seems to go without problems - so you might be OK as long as your topcoat is 2PAC.
Quoted from Knoler:Was wondering what you'd suggest for a problem like the one below, on a routed Stern Star Trek I just picked up. No other issues on the rest of the playfield, other than it being dirty as hell, so I think it might have happened due to a tech dropping a tool or something.
Could be a nicked ball.
That's an odd hole for being the only wear in front of a target.
Quoted from Knoler:Planning on using water slide decals and photoshop to recreate the art. Not sure how to go about protecting the area around the fix and making sure it's all level.
Bring up the hole by dripping 2PAC into it and then sanding it flush.
Quoted from Knoler:Concerned about 2PAC because of fumes and lack of proper ventiliation in my work space. So, any other options would be great.
There are no other options than Mylar.
You might just want to Mylar the area unrepaired. Then wait until Spring when you can work outside the house.
Quoted from Knoler:Thanks for your insight! Drip into the hole using the syringe method you mentioned for ghosted inserts, or another method?
Glass eyedropper is great.
Quoted from Knoler:How do you recommend I do the top layers over the decal, so as to not mess with the existing clear except in that spot?
You have to lightly spray over decals, or you will melt them.
"Spot Clearing" is usually a disaster, just like it is when you try to do it on a car.
Quoted from Knoler:Is a small mylar dot sufficient, do you think?
Just a dot is all you need.
Quoted from La_Porta:I have to say, on the old adhesive, and the still-applied pop bumper mylar I just removed...the flour and alcohol method made it almost too easy! I practically wiped the stuff off to a smooth finish underneath! That is an awesome method, for sure.
When I first heard about it, it sounded like nonsense. It totally rocks!
Quoted from La_Porta:Here is another question: all those little stars on my Firepower's black space areas are somewhat yellow...what a bitch to try and frisket/spray all those! No one is doing that i assume...is there an alternative way?
You can leave them yellow.
You can paint the whole field black, then just freehand the white stars.
Either way is cool.
Quoted from StrangeSubset1:Ok, total Noob here when it comes to anything playfield related. I have a piece of mylar (at least I think that's what it is), that almost looks like something got stuck under it. It's perfectly adhered, or at least it appears to be, I don't dare sticking something under it without getting some advise.
There seems to be a little ghosting right behind whatever is up front. No idea how to get this out. Afraid that if I take of the mylar all the paint will come with it. Any pointers?
I agree that since there might be ghosting under the Mylar, that the paint might lift if you try to remove it.
Best to just leave that one alone.
Quoted from bobmorlock:Fist of all thanks so much for this guide, this is an awesome source of information.
I can't get equiped properly for a complete reclear yet, but I would like to protect a chip that just happened on my MMR shooter lane. Shall I just put a mylar on it, and maybe a protector? Or shall I first sand, drop a bit of 2pac, and sand flat before waxing and applying mylar? When I am ready the playfield will be stripped and recleared, someday...
Lightly sand the area, then brush on some 2PAC.
Mylar and play
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Why did Stern use Mylar on their early clear coated machines? Striker Xtreme, NFL, T3 that I know of? (2000-2003 ish)
Was the clear then less protective? Or maybe Mylar was the habit at the time?
Tommy (1994) came from factory cleared with no Mylar.
Just curious of the history/process.
Even clear coated playfields need Mylar around high wear areas: Pops, tracks, .....
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Which aftermarket mylars do you prefer for post clear coat?
I use the Marco 22" wide roll.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Clean clear with naphtha before applying?
Hell no!
Wax the playfield, so the Mylar can be removed in the future.
You will be VERY sorry if you apply Mylar to a playfield that has been stripped of wax with Naphtha.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Pops, slings, ball drops... anywhere else? Full playfield?
Shooter lane? Outhole? Anywhere where you get a ton of ball travel.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Maybe I'm wrong but many games, especially late 80s/ early 90s diamond plates did not have Mylar over the clear.
They came with factory Mylar, or had pre-cut Mylar in the goody envelope.
People peel off the Mylar and then wonder why the playfield got chewed up so fast the first time you get a nick in a ball.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Brand new Ghostbusters pinball in the box. Before playing, wax? Protector?
How to avoid having to come back to this thread for new Stern games with factory clear!
New Balls
Full Wax Job.
Mylar in all high wear areas.
Play game.
Quoted from La_Porta:Vid, do you do this right after taking the old top coat off? Is it ok to do that prior to leveling/replacing inserts and all of that? I'd just love to get some clear on the paint so that way I can lock the old paint in in case I make a mistake with the Createx when I start with that.
Replacing any inserts has to go first, because the clear would lock them in.
Quoted from La_Porta:When you guys come across inserts that are otherwise ok beside ruts and streaks in them from ball motion, do you just remove them (or leave in) and sand/polish the surface?
NEVER take inserts out unless they are broken AND you have it's replacement IN HAND.
Sand the surface to rough it up for the clearcoat.
Don't worry about ruts and streaks in the plastic itself, they just fill in with clear.
Quoted from La_Porta:The cear that is on the inserts makes such a haze that even putting clear over it doesn't magically make theninsert appear clear from below. To make the insert look clear, all the old clearcoat has to come off (at least on my game). The rest of the play field is being stripped of clear coat and sanded.
Those inserts were not crystal clear when new either.
The topcoats back then were hazy right out of the box.
The haze was a good thing. It defused the bulb filament and kept you from seeing the bulb and socket.
If you really wanted to make them clear, you might have to use a dremel and polish the backside of the insert too
Quoted from RampShot11:Vid,
I am about to fill in a couple of deep gouges on a WCS playfield. I saw you said to use 2 part wood epoxy for a majority of the gouge and then the rest with Bondo. My question is how do I sand the bondo nice and flat without damaging the playfield around the bondo? Wet sand?
If there are painted surfaces around the gouge that are not getting repainted, then it might be safer to just fill the gouges with 2PAC.
400 ways to skin a cat, and we have to find the best one for each situation.
Quoted from La_Porta:Agreed with the mist, I learned that the hard way with model decals that were cheap back when. I think I may have found a solution, however.
One additional question: I saw that, prudently, you said to wear the respirator when filling inserts, etc, with 2PAC. I'm assuming the bunny suit and all that is not required, just enough time for the 2PAC stench to dissipate.
Of course I'm going to TELL you to wear gloves, respirator, bunny suit, swim goggles......
Quoted from PanaPinResto:Im trying to turn this pic of my PF into a decal I can use to restore it. As of now(still learning) I'm tracing every color onto layers with the bezier tool in inkscape. It's really slow going. Painfully slow. What's a better way to do this? Is there a way to just separate the black from a photo? Any help would be appreciated.
There is so little damage, I'd just touch up the paint.
If you absolutely had to make a decal, I'd make a black only decal, then install it over the repaired damage.
I don't know Inkscape, but I'm sure someone here can help you.
Quoted from matthess:Has anyone tried this for shooting clear? I wonder how well it would work? http://www.harborfreight.com/high-volume-low-pressure-spray-gun-kit-44677.html
It will shoot it, but that's a lot more $$$$ than just getting a $9 HVLP gun at HF.
I'd get a used compressor from CL and the $9 HVLP gun for less money.
Quoted from NoMonkey:Hi Vid,
I have a Junk Yard that I've been tearing down. I've purchased a tumbler and was pulling all of the hardware from the top side. When I removed one post in particular, it lifted the grain of the playfield and cracked the paint. I pulled another one that sits under some plastics and it had the same result. The paint/playfield most definitely didn't have any defects in these areas prior to removal of the post.
I have few questions if you don't mind answering:
- Is this common? If so, do you just know you'll have to make touch ups when pulling hardware?
- Is there something I can do to prevent this in the future or is it just the nature of the beast?
- Should avoid pulling posts in the future?
It happens.
Those big wood threads pull everything up along with them.
Try keeping some downward pressure on the ratchet as you unscrew these.
Put a little white glue on the edge of the hole and just tap the wood fibers down with a hammer and the butt-end of nut driver.
Quoted from KornFreak28:Hey Vid,
Not to sure if this is the correct thread to be asking this but.....When ball guides are re-grained (I assume that strips any protective coating off?) Are they supposed to get some sort of clear coat on them to protect them from rusting? Thanks Vid!!!
Many of the Bally are steel, flashed with copper, then chromed. So if you are not careful, you will quickly burn through the chrome. Wax the chrome to protect it.
Most Williams are solid stainless steel, so although not as shiny as Chrome, you don't have to worry about taking the chrome off.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/making-new-ball-guides-from-scratch-vids-guide
Quoted from tonycip:Hi Vid I was thinking about repairing and clearing a mousin around playfield , but was reading HSA site and they won't clear any system 11 play fields due to the lacquer that was used ,stating adhesion issues and white dots showing up after clearing on the inserts . do you agree? should I pass on doing it? or is there some things I can do to not have these problems ..
Pros clearcoat sys11 playfields all the time.
Don't remove the ink, but just the clear, from inserts that might give you trouble.
Quoted from KornFreak28:So for Williams stainless steel guides I wouldn't have to spray any sort of clear coat after re-graining them correct?
Nope.
You can re-grain them, or polish them to a mirror finish with Green Compound.
Quoted from La_Porta:How is it that you can fill the inserts with 2PAC, and then sand them down without sanding down the paint on the play field? I am sure you can be very, very careful...but is there any other way at all? I already have removed the old top coat with ME & EtOH.
You have to sand the entire playfield or the clearcoat won't stick to it.
There is no way around it.
DON'T sand all the way through the paint (obviously), just de-gloss it and shoot a thin coat of clear.
This coat locks down any soft or chalky paint, so you can start repairing and frisketing.
Quoted from Jeremy8419:Think I may be missing something... read through the early stuff, but I just want to get rid of like basic surface level stuff like dust and germs and don't want to have to break out the vacuum cleaner and attachments to clean. Can I just wipe off everything with a damp cloth every once and a while? Or will that F it up? It's a Lost World without mylar. Not asking for "I want it to look great" reasons, but more for like "ew gross" reasons. Thanks.
Don't use any water based cleaners on a Lost World.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide
Quoted from Jeremy8419:Oh, crud, sorry. I got my threads mixed up. I mean I read all those early ones, but I'd really like to wipe it down (as in a single stroke) with something wet. Idk, kinda the whole "sweep but don't mop" sorta ick feeling behind just vacuuming.
You can wet wipe it with Naphtha, but then you have to re-wax it.
Quoted from KornFreak28:Hey Vid,
How about the pop bumper ring and rod? Do those have to be clear coated for protection against rust? I polished them to a mirror finish already, so just making sure I don't need to clear coat them. Thanks!
You can wax them to make them faster, if you want.
Don't clear coat them
Quoted from jboner1058:What are the best drill bits for putting t-nut holes in a playfield? And would you drill from top to bottom or bottom to top to minimize paint damage and tearing?
For the strongest installation, a T-nut needs a small hole through the top of the playfield, and a larger hole up from the bottom.
If the base of the T-nut needs to be recessed, it is possible that you need to drill 3 holes....
Quoted from No_Skill:I have a question about cupped inserts. I understand the process for plain cupped inserts, but what do you do if they have text on them?
Touch up any text and Keylines - then fill her up:
Quoted from sohchx:Vid, On the early 2000's Stern fields, is it possible to get the surface back to a gloss again ,like when it was new by buffing with different compounds and pads? In this photo you can obviously see the difference between where the ball does ,and doesnt travel.
Yes, Novus2 is the perfect compound to bring those areas back to gloss.
Make sure you wax when you are done.
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Sana'a
Walnut Creek, CA