(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

7 years ago



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#3301 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

had a piece of paint come up, there's about a 2 inch section with a different texture. In the future I'll feel each area before cleaning it (I was just using a bit of Novus#2 to get the dirt off after vacuuming it and then wiping with a dry cloth), but is there anything you'd recommend for cleaning any other areas as best I can?

Novus2 might be too harsh of an abrasive.

Many old Bally have flaky fragile paint.

Wipe carefully with Naphtha, and don't try to clean too much.

#3302 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Novus2 might be too harsh of an abrasive.
Many old Bally have flaky fragile paint.
Wipe carefully with Naphtha, and don't try to clean too much.

The main reason I'd used novus was because there was a good amount of 'gunk', that definitely shouldn't later be trapped under mylar. I guess I should have chipped at the gunk with something soft first, before giving it a wiping with naphtha. IMG_20160622_185417_(resized).jpg

Not sure how I could get it or this one other place clean without major paint loss, but oh well.
IMG_20160622_185429_(resized).jpg

#3303 3 years ago

If the playfield froze in a garage or something, the paint may just be too fragile, no matter how you try to clean it.

#3304 3 years ago

Not exactly a playfield itself question, but this seemed like a good place to ask. I'm cleaning up a Gottlieb Pinball Pool, and want to replace the ugly and worn vinyl covered pine rails (see attached) with some nice maple ones, which I read somewhere is what they used on earlier models. I have the wood, a thickness planer, and saws and know how to use them, my question is on the earlier ones did they clear the rails with something, or are they bare wood. I have a Vulcan as well which has the wood rails, but honestly I can't tell if they were cleared and it has mostly/all worn off or if it never was and is just "stained". If cleared, what would be a good/easy product to use?

Thanks,
Dan

2016-05-03_17.30.06_(resized).jpg

#3305 3 years ago
Quoted from BorgDog:

If cleared, what would be a good/easy product to use?

Oil based poly looks good, and is very durable.

They were probably lacquer originally.

#3307 3 years ago

Vid, just a general question regarding lacquers: I saw what you said regarding lacquers being "too hot" for other paints. What about Model Master gloss clear lacquer that I use for my models? I have sprayed it over enamel, acrylic, lacquer, and decals with thus far no issue ever. Perhaps it is different than those Minwax types in being specially made to play well with everything? Would there be downside to using this type of thing at all, especially for a first, sealing coat between the original paint and spraying Createx touch up? I ask because, like many others, I am limited in what I can do for shooting clear...meaning the rattle can "will harden in the can in 48 hours" stuff. This is because I have only one pin, and will only need to do this once. I don't want to start the clock on the can for an initial coat, rush to spray the Createx, etc...because we all know what a rush job will achieve. I'd rather save the 2PAC for the final coats once the Createx and decals are in place. Would this be feasible/advisable?

#3308 3 years ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

hat about Model Master gloss clear lacquer that I use for my models?

Sorry, I don't have any experience with that product.

Maybe someone else will have some advice who has tried it.

#3309 3 years ago

Appreciate the prompt response...thanks!

#3310 3 years ago

Is screening opaque white Nazdar 550 ink on top of heat-set Createx airbrush paint a good idea or a bad one? I don't think I ever got the official Vid answer, and I'm at the point where I need to figure out if I need to mask over the existing letters or not before putting grey down. If I don't mask over the letters and cover them up with grey, then after the grey is heat-set, I'll screen ink on top of the grey.

I suppose I could lay down a thin layer of clear to lock the grey in before screening. Vid, what say you?

#3311 3 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

Is screening opaque white Nazdar 550 ink on top of heat-set Createx airbrush paint a good idea or a bad one? I don't think I ever got the official Vid answer, and I'm at the point where I need to figure out if I need to mask over the existing letters or not before putting grey down. If I don't mask over the letters and cover them up with grey, then after the grey is heat-set, I'll screen ink on top of the grey.
I suppose I could lay down a thin layer of clear to lock the grey in before screening. Vid, what say you?

I've never tried it.

Try a test panel and make sure everyone gets along before doing anything drastic.

#3312 3 years ago

I did that last night on some scrap plywood, and aside from my terrible screening technique, the ink seemed to dry just fine on top of the airbrushed Createx.

What would I be looking for to see if it wasn't as successful as it appears?

#3313 3 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

What would I be looking for to see if it wasn't as successful as it appears?

Tape test.

Put down duct tape.

If tape can be removed without pulling paint, the two paints have adhered to each other nicely.

#3314 3 years ago

Hi Vid,
When you say "light coat" how many ml is that for a whole playfield? 400ml?

#3315 3 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Hi Vid,
When you say "light coat" how many ml is that for a whole playfield? 400ml?

Usually the top coat clearcoat is 4 mils thick (.004").

#3316 3 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Hi Vid,
When you say "light coat" how many ml is that for a whole playfield? 400ml?

More like 50ml.

20" by 42" by 0.004" is 3.3 or so cubic inches and 3.3 * 15 in ml.

#3317 3 years ago
Quoted from lb1:

More like 50ml.
20" by 42" by 0.004" is 3.3 or so cubic inches and 3.3 * 15 in ml.

With my HVLP gun set at 30psi, 1.3mm nozzle, I've been putting down very thin coats that are perfect for intermediate coats between each airbrush color. I've been using anywhere between 50ml and 70ml of clear depending on my skill for putting down a coat that day. My coats are not 0.004" thick however because of overspray. When my painting is done, I will likely use more than 70ml for my final coat in order to get that 0.004". I'm guessing 100ml.
I'm no professional paint sprayer by any stretch of the imagination, so your milage may vary.

#3318 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Tape test.
Put down duct tape.
If tape can be removed without pulling paint, the two paints have adhered to each other nicely.

Well, the Nazdar white didn't come up. Oddly enough, though, the black Createx did. I'm not sure what to make of these results, but I'm pretty sure this ink is OK to put on top of Createx, and is also OK to put clearcoat on top of.

#3319 3 years ago

Also, this Nazdar ink is solvent-based. Does that matter at all?

#3320 3 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

Also, this Nazdar ink is solvent-based. Does that matter at all?

Solvent base is good.

#3321 3 years ago

It dries up so fast that it effectively destroys the StencilPro screens I use. I don't like the idea of one-shot-better-get-it-right-the-first-time screens. Any tips on how to clean it up easier?

#3322 3 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

It dries up so fast that it effectively destroys the StencilPro screens I use.

Use the 9050 Retarder to make the ink dry slower (that number may have changed from the last time I used it, so check my facts).

#3323 3 years ago

Once the retarder and the ink are mixed, and I push it through the screen, there's still the matter of cleaning it up. Water doesn't seem to have much effect on this stuff. I can barely even rinse it off a metal spoon. What can I use to clean the screen up? Do I just soak it in acetone or something, rinse, and hope it works?

#3324 3 years ago

It won't clean up with water.

You need "screen wash" like IMS203

#3325 3 years ago

Ugh. That stuff only comes in gallons. And for that reason, I'm considering trying the Speedball acrylics. I know you said that nobody uses them, but I know a guy who does. I'm going to take a look at his work. I don't have to worry about fading since I'm only doing blacks and whites. If water-based acrylics are good enough for airbrush paint, they should be good enough for a small amount of screening.

#3326 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Usually the top coat clearcoat is 4 mils thick (.004").

Quoted from lb1:

More like 50ml.
20" by 42" by 0.004" is 3.3 or so cubic inches and 3.3 * 15 in ml.

Quoted from Fred736:

With my HVLP gun set at 30psi, 1.3mm nozzle, I've been putting down very thin coats that are perfect for intermediate coats between each airbrush color. I've been using anywhere between 50ml and 70ml of clear depending on my skill for putting down a coat that day. My coats are not 0.004" thick however because of overspray. When my painting is done, I will likely use more than 70ml for my final coat in order to get that 0.004". I'm guessing 100ml.
I'm no professional paint sprayer by any stretch of the imagination, so your milage may vary.

Thank you all.
When I say ml I mean milliliters.
I use SprayMax (400ml pr. can), and there is no way that 1/4 of a can is enough for a final coat and if I use 1/8 of a can for between it will be uneaven/misty, but is that normal?

#3327 3 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Thank you all.
When I say ml I mean milliliters.
I use SprayMax (400ml pr. can), and there is no way that 1/4 of a can is enough for a final coat and if I use 1/8 of a can for between it will be uneaven/misty, but is that normal?

Looking at http://www.repaintsupply.com/files/2K_Glamour_High_Gloss_Clear_English_TDS.pdf

Coverage: approx. 5.4 – 8.1 sq ft / aerosol
at a dry film thickness of 1.2 – 2.0 µm = 0.002 mm = 0.8 mils

A playfield is roughly 6ish sqft.

Your numbers make sense and you might even need more than a can. There is probably a lot less actual liquid in the can than 400ml. Solid content between SprayMax and 2PAC is comparable.

#3328 3 years ago

I'm working on a Power Play playfield. The goal is not to get it in an out of this world condition, but rather to learn as I'm going. It's a beat up machine and a beat up playfield... Now I had to rebuild the shooter lane from wood epoxy because I had to sand out too much to get it clean.
I'm having a hard time matching the wood color and/or "faking" a wood pattern.
I'm using the Createx sand color as a base and trying to mix it up with other colors but can't get that golden color.
You can see the difference with the hockey sticks.
I'm thinking that if I do the ply pattern in the shooter lane it might not look that bad, but again, I'm trying to hone the craft so if there's a better way to go about it I don't mind shooting over what I have now...

And another question about the clear... I shot with OVP95 rated respirator cartridges. I could definitely smell the clear (Spray 2k) - I'd just get my head outside of the backshed which is where I'm shooting to get some fresh air and hold my breath, but I took a few breaths of the stuff inside before that.
Are the cartridges the correct rating? I also have a beard which I know I'm not supposed to have to have a good seal, so that could be it too. Is there some way around this, like oiling up the respirator "gasket"?

Thanks!

IMG_8033_(resized).JPG

IMG_8034_(resized).JPG

#3329 3 years ago

Drilling the wire form ball guide holes.

I understand using the brad bit for holes hidden under posts etc, but how do you get a good clean look AND protect the surrounding clear for wire form ball guides? The brad bit takes a lot of extra material with it, and therefore not a clean enough cut.

Thanks for any advice.

#3330 3 years ago
Quoted from PhilGreg:

I'm working on a Power Play playfield. The goal is not to get it in an out of this world condition, but rather to learn as I'm going. It's a beat up machine and a beat up playfield... Now I had to rebuild the shooter lane from wood epoxy because I had to sand out too much to get it clean.
I'm having a hard time matching the wood color and/or "faking" a wood pattern.
I'm using the Createx sand color as a base and trying to mix it up with other colors but can't get that golden color.
You can see the difference with the hockey sticks.
I'm thinking that if I do the ply pattern in the shooter lane it might not look that bad, but again, I'm trying to hone the craft so if there's a better way to go about it I don't mind shooting over what I have now...
And another question about the clear... I shot with OVP95 rated respirator cartridges. I could definitely smell the clear (Spray 2k) - I'd just get my head outside of the backshed which is where I'm shooting to get some fresh air and hold my breath, but I took a few breaths of the stuff inside before that.
Are the cartridges the correct rating? I also have a beard which I know I'm not supposed to have to have a good seal, so that could be it too. Is there some way around this, like oiling up the respirator "gasket"?
Thanks!

I think that looks great!! I wouldn't even bother trying to replicate grain if it were mine and looked like that.

#3331 3 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

I think that looks great!! I wouldn't even bother trying to replicate grain if it were mine and looked like that.

I agree. Once the siderails are installed it will look fine.
Played one of those at the NW pin show, love the chimes in that early SS Bally! Fun game.

#3332 3 years ago

Vid, this is the hole I was telling you about. Other than this, the playfield is immaculate, so it is worth saving. Been practicing patching the black lines. The area round the hole will clean up, but it is going to take a little finesse to fill the hole and get it level without damaging the area around it. Bondo, Creatix, clear? Suggestions.......and yes, whomever did this is an ass-hat........

Hole2_(resized).jpg

#3333 3 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Vid, this is the hole I was telling you about. Other than this, the playfield is immaculate, so it is worth saving. Been practicing patching the black lines. The area round the hole will clean up, but it is going to take a little finesse to fill the hole and get it level without damaging the area around it. Bondo, Creatix, clear? Suggestions.......and yes, whomever did this is an ass-hat........

That's not a "hole", well it is a hole but that is for another star post, do not fill it put a star post there and your problems are solved.

EDIT: As you'll see in the PF detail and my pic, someone removed that post so making the loop would be easier, they also cut the plastic square so it wouldn't catch the ball as it went around the loop or it chipped because there was no post and rubber to protect it...

EDIT 2: It calls for a double clear star post but I used a red star post on mine with colored rubber.

Playfiled_detail_(resized).jpg
star_post_(resized).jpg

#3334 3 years ago
Quoted from tiltmonster:

That's not a "hole", well it is a hole but that is for another star post, do not fill it put a star post there and your problems are solved.
EDIT: As you'll see in PF detail and my pic, someone removed that post so making the loop would be easier, they also cut the plastic square so it wouldn't catch the ball as it went around the loop or it chipped because there was no post and rubber to protect it...
EDIT 2: It calls for a double clear star post but I used a red star post on mine with colored rubber.

Well, that is mighty interesting....and thanks. I assumed someone put a post there at one point because the edge of the plastic was getting clipped.....not the reverse. I ordered a post set for this, and a new set of plastics, so hopefully she will be back to new condition. I have 2 inserts with lifting corners that I am going to heat and re-level, and everything else should be good as far as the playfield goes. Again, I appreciate the help!

#3335 3 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Well, that is mighty interesting....and thanks. I assumed someone put a post there at one point because the edge of the plastic was getting clipped.....not the reverse. I ordered a post set for this, and a new set of plastics, so hopefully she will be back to new condition. I have 2 inserts with lifting corners that I am going to heat and re-level, and everything else should be good as far as the playfield goes. Thanks!

Excellent! As you know, The Getaway was a follow to HS which was really popular and it had a high production run so they were probably routed and heavily played, it's not unusual to see plenty of beat up PF out there. Good luck and enjoy!

PS that loop shot won't be as easy, still not a hard shot but it will play differently with the correct post back on the PF.

#3336 3 years ago

Yep, played it before, but never owned one. From the looks of this one, I think it was probably routed for a very short time, but must have sat for several years after that. Flippers and bushings are original, and given the looks of some of the rubber, it may be as well. Everything is there in good shape....just dirty. Worst part of the whole thing is the faded cabinet. It is in good shape, with no gouges, but everything is pretty faded. I have new decals coming, and although I am not looking forward to that part of the process, I know it has to be done. Can you confirm the original cabinets were screen printed? Doesn't appear to be a decal to me?

#3337 3 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Yep, played it before, but never owned one. From the looks of this one, I think it was probably routed for a very short time, but must have sat for several years after that. Flippers and bushings are original, and given the looks of some of the rubber, it may be as well. Everything is there in good shape....just dirty. Worst part of the whole thing is the faded cabinet. It is in good shape, with no gouges, but everything is pretty faded. I have new decals coming, and although I am not looking forward to that part of the process, I know it has to be done. Can you confirm the original cabinets were screen printed? Doesn't appear to be a decal to me?

You should go to the Getaway Club forum now seeing your PF issue is not related to Vid's thread, I think we can help you there with more owners viewing the thread.

Fading is a major issue with most of The Getaway machines, mine is pretty good except for the front fade. I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure they are decals but come to this thread and see what others say.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/getaway-club-dispatch-run-a-make-on-license-plate-kingpin

Side_good_(resized).jpg

#3338 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Novus2 might be too harsh of an abrasive.
Many old Bally have flaky fragile paint.
Wipe carefully with Naphtha, and don't try to clean too much.

Was fairly successful cleaning this up by first dabbing with a soft cloth and naphtha, then rubbing lightly, making sure that the only flaking areas were around where the paint had already coming up, then cleaning the rest of it lightly with novus to remove the dirt the naphtha wouldn't get:

IMG_20160625_125105_(resized).jpg

I also trimmed some of the dirty lifting mylar
IMG_20160627_194904_(resized).jpgIMG_20160627_194916_(resized).jpg

I've run into problems where, no matter how carefully I cut, I'm still occasionally cutting into the wood with the exacto knife and leaving annoying white lines (much worse than the very occasional lifted paint). Is there anything I can do to make the cutting safer?

Finally, I ordered a sheet of mylar from the pinball resource, and just fit and attached my first piece (after waxing the area), only to realize that it's probably 3-4 times thinner than the existing mylar. Do you know of any place to buy thicker mylar? As it is, this isn't going to make it okay any better and stands out even more than if I don't put down any mylar all. I'm half tempted to just not do it, besides from putting new rings around the pop bumpers Am I at much danger of the mylar ripping up more from ball travel if I don't put more down? (if so I doubt the thinner mylar would help much either)

#3339 3 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

I've run into problems where, no matter how carefully I cut, I'm still occasionally cutting into the wood with the exacto knife and leaving annoying white lines (much worse than the very occasional lifted paint). Is there anything I can do to make the cutting safer?

I usually just score it, not actually cut all the way through.

BRAND NEW XACTO BLADE, for sure.

Quoted from zacaj:

Finally, I ordered a sheet of mylar from the pinball resource, and just fit and attached my first piece (after waxing the area), only to realize that it's probably 3-4 times thinner than the existing mylar. Do you know of any place to buy thicker mylar?

Non-bigbox art/drafting stores have it. Marcos has it. I'm sure there are many other places.

Pinball machines have had many owners, so there is no telling what thickness Mylar someone installed.......

#3340 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I usually just score it

I haven't been able to score enough for it to tear without pulling up the other mylar...

Quoted from vid1900:

BRAND NEW XACTO BLADE, for sure.

I even bought a new handle!

I was only able to find 3 mil, and if I had to guess I'd say this is closer to 10mil than it is to 3. Will search some non-pinball places....

#3341 3 years ago

I picked up an Iwata gravity feed airbrush and small compressor off of Craigslist, but I'm having a hell of time figuring out how it's supposed to work. All the videos and guides I've read have said that you push the trigger down to start airflow, and then rock the trigger back to introduce paint. But I can't get this thing to actually shoot paint unless I'm rocking the trigger forward from all the way back. Rock the trigger back, then rock it forward to introduce paint until the trigger reaches the front. Then do it again. It makes for really inconsistent paint application.

I also have a Harbor Freight single-action siphon-feed airbrush. You press the button, and it's on. Let the button go, and it's off. No fading or anything. Would this be a better airbrush to use for laying down large swaths of color?

#3342 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Drilling the wire form ball guide holes.
I understand using the brad bit for holes hidden under posts etc, but how do you get a good clean look AND protect the surrounding clear for wire form ball guides? The brad bit takes a lot of extra material with it, and therefore not a clean enough cut.
Thanks for any advice.

Bump... Vid... thoughts?

#3343 3 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

I picked up an Iwata gravity feed airbrush and small compressor off of Craigslist,

If you're saying you bought the airbrush used, it is likely clogged to some extent. That could be the problem.

#3344 3 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

I also have a Harbor Freight single-action siphon-feed airbrush. You press the button, and it's on. Let the button go, and it's off. No fading or anything. Would this be a better airbrush to use for laying down large swaths of color?

Iwata is a great brush, but yours may be needing some new seals, or a serious cleaning.

If you are just doing sold colors without any fading effects, you will love the easy to clean, no clog $8 HF:

http://www.harborfreight.com/quick-change-airbrush-kit-93506.html

image_13800_(resized).jpg

#3345 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Drilling the wire form ball guide holes.
I understand using the brad bit for holes hidden under posts etc, but how do you get a good clean look AND protect the surrounding clear for wire form ball guides? The brad bit takes a lot of extra material with it, and therefore not a clean enough cut.
Thanks for any advice.

You just have to use the right size bit.

If you use too large of a bit, you will make an obvious hole.

You also need to make sure the bit is SHARP. Dull bits will make ragged holes.

-

Cut out the clear with your brad bit, then drill out the wire hole to the proper size with a conventional bit.

#3346 3 years ago
Quoted from brandsilence:

If you're saying you bought the airbrush used, it is likely clogged to some extent. That could be the problem.

Try spraying thinner or solvent only; see if that works first

#3347 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Iwata is a great brush, but yours may be needing some new seals, or a serious cleaning.
If you are just doing sold colors without any fading effects, you will love the easy to clean, no clog $8 HF:
http://www.harborfreight.com/quick-change-airbrush-kit-93506.html

That's the other one I've got. The siphon-feed makes it a bit more likely to waste some paint, but I think it's better suited for large blocks of single colors.

#3348 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

colors without any fading effects

I haven't painted with an airbrush, just touch up by hand, but I'm looking into future airbrushing.

What type of "fading effects" can you do with certain guns?

Thanks!

#3349 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

What type of "fading effects" can you do with certain guns?

A "dual action" gun lets you vary the paint and air pressure.

You can fade one color into another, or overlay a transparent color over another.

#3350 3 years ago

Vid, As you can see, the shooter lane on this Getaway is pretty dirty, and a bit of the grain has lifted, making it pretty rough. The rest of the playfield is in great shape, but I need to address this area. If I sand using the dowel or pipe, can I re-clear using the SprayMax 2K? Or will that hold up for this purpose? I am going to try and get of the dirt out, but I am betting a lot of it is too deep.

Thanks

shooter_lane3_(resized).jpg

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