Revere, MA
If I'm going to be doing a small bit of screen printing onto the playfield, do I want to go with the Speedball acrylic inks or the fabric inks?
(Topic ID: 33446)
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Quoted from UvulaBob:If I'm going to be doing a small bit of screen printing onto the playfield, do I want to go with the Speedball acrylic inks or the fabric inks?
If you're using water-based inks, you'll need to be printing directly on the wood and not over other graphics, because it will just wipe off. Also I'm pretty sure clearcoat will make it run.
Quoted from vid1900:I always see Nazdar inks used on wood, never Speedball.
Why is that?
EDIT: I mean, the obvious answer is "because that's what I see". But do you have any insight into why nobody uses Speedball Acrylic ink on playfields?
Quoted from UvulaBob:But do you have any insight into why nobody uses Speedball Acrylic ink on playfields?
There could be 50 reasons.
How fast does it fade?
How opaque is it?
Can it be ordered in Pantone colors? Does the company offer Pantone mix ratios online?
How long until it's dry? Does it need heat or UV to set?
Quoted from UvulaBob:But do you have any insight into why nobody uses Speedball Acrylic ink on playfields?
Because Speedball is hobbyist quality ink with low solids? Also, water-based inks tend to swell the wood?
UV is really the way to go in the 21st century.
Quoted from jwilson:Because Speedball is hobbyist quality ink with low solids? Also, water-based inks tend to swell the wood?
UV is really the way to go in the 21st century.
Maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about, and your condescension is deserved, but I'm not sure acrylics are as water-based as you seem to think they are. I understand why the water-based fabric paints are a bad idea. Createx paints are acrylic, though, and Vid has no problem using them.
To answer Vid's concerns, the only colors I'm planning on using are black and white, and in very small uses. I don't really have to worry about black fading. Right now, the plan is for the white to be covered up by a laser-printed clear decal (with a layer of clearcoat between the ink and the decal) to make the colors pop more. I'm less concerned about aesthetics and more about unforseen reactions with clearcoat and the like.
Quoted from UvulaBob:I'm less concerned about aesthetics and more about unforseen reactions with clearcoat and the like.
Make a test panel and see what happens in a few months.
I don't know anybody that has ever used Speedball ink on a playfield.
Quoted from UvulaBob:Maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about, and your condescension is deserved, but I'm not sure acrylics are as water-based as you seem to think they are.
I've done a lot of screen printing with Speedball and Nazdar water-based inks over the years, including on wood, and there's a lot of swelling that happens even straight out of the container, let alone when its thinned to get through a 320 mesh screen. Nazdar is way, way better in terms of ink quality and density. Speedball is cheap and easy to get at art stores but it's barely good enough for paper printing.
Sorry if I came off as condescending, but you automatically discounted Vid's advice on what inks to use so I was a bit incredulous at that.
Quoted from jwilson:you automatically discounted Vid's advice
I certainly did not. I was asking for more information beyond "I've never seen anyone use it". That could mean anything from "I don't have any information" to "dear God, never use it".
I know a guy who screens quite a bit, and he didn't seem concerned with using Speedball ink. I'll pick his brain more and find out what he does and the results he's had.
Vid, I have two playfields, a DE Simpsons and an Earthshaker, both with mylar which polished out nicely so no need for removal or clearcoating. Both pf's have kickout holes that are getting a little beat-up around the edges. I have to do any work indoors, so spray clear is unfortunately out of the question for now; what's the best brushable alternative, preferably something I could find locally? It won't be covering anything white-colored, just black, golden-yellow, and the bare wood. Thanks!
Quoted from jibmums:Both pf's have kickout holes that are getting a little beat-up around the edges. I have to do any work indoors, so spray clear is unfortunately out of the question for now; what's the best brushable alternative, preferably something I could find locally? It won't be covering anything white-colored, just black, golden-yellow, and the bare wood. Thanks!
Let's see some pics
Quoted from UvulaBob:If I'm going to go with Nazdar ink, what type? Is the multipurpose UV good enough, or do I need a specific ink line?
Need more information.
Let's see the area to be screened.
Let's see your screens and fabric.
Quoted from vid1900:Need more information.
Fair enough.
My Taxi playfield has had the passenger inserts replaced, so my plan is to spray the area around the inserts with the gray road paint, and then push white ink through a ~220 mesh screen in the shape of the passengers, minus the parts that are clear. For instance, I'd put Gorbie's body down, but leave his head, chest, and tie missing.
Then, when I'm done with everything else, I plan on clearing the playfield. The thinking is that I can then put a clear decal on top of the white silhouette.
Why clear decals? Because the passengers need to be partially opaque and partially clear. If I put clear on gray, that would suck. If I try clear over a clear insert, the colors will be faded. This was the best idea I could come up with, after asking a bunch of questions last year in this very thread and getting a lot of "Hmmm. Yeah, you've got your work cut out for you. Good luck!" in response.
I suppose I could try to print part of Gorbie on a white-backed decal, and the clear part on a clear decal, and then try to splice the two parts together on the playfield. That seems really easy to screw up, though. I guess I could try practicing with paper and transparencies.
Anyway, there you go. I don't plan on doing a ton of screening, and the only color(s) I plan on using are white and possibly black.
Quoted from UvulaBob:If I'm going to go with Nazdar ink, what type? Is the multipurpose UV good enough, or do I need a specific ink line?
You need a UV dryer to use the UV inks, they don't air or heat dry. You can get one of those UV dryers they use for nails, that would work.
Quoted from vid1900:Quoted from jibmums:
Both pf's have kickout holes that are getting a little beat-up around the edges. I have to do any work indoors, so spray clear is unfortunately out of the question for now; what's the best brushable alternative, preferably something I could find locally? It won't be covering anything white-colored, just black, golden-yellow, and the bare wood. Thanks!
Let's see some pics
Here you go. Neither are all that bad right now; I did some touchup to Simps a year ago, and ES needs a little touchup on the black ring. I'd like to keep them from getting any more chewed-up looking in the future but spray clear or 2pac is just not possible for now.
Hello Vid. First, thank you for all your help. I've read the thread to be ready to restore my STTNG playfield. And because English is not my mother language, I've got some doubts I'd love you to clarify me.
I'd like to clear coat my playfield, but I don't have the tools and place (and experience, and balls) to do it by myself, so I plan to take the playfield to a garage to do it for me.
Please, guide me and tell me if this is the right order of steps to follow:
1 Unpopulate playfield.
2 Remove Mylar.
3 Clean playfield.
4 Sand playfield with 400 sandpaper. Then I'll meet with this:
Image-1_(resized).jpg
Scratches around return to duty insert.
Image-2_(resized).jpg
Scratch near flippers.
Image-3_(resized).jpg
Image-4_(resized).jpg
And is that raised clear coat over shield inserts??
1 Now I'd like to fix wood holes, do color touch ups and fix that "something" over inserts.
2 Then I'll take playfield to a garage to do the clear coat.
3 When it dries I'll sand again to level it.
4 Then I'll take it to receive another clear coat.
5 ?
Doubts:
1 Are these the right steps considering I can't clear coat the playfield at home and must take it to a garage?
2 Do I need to apply a white color base on the scratches before paint them with their color?
3 Don't know what is the best procedure to fix whatever happened to shield inserts, don't know if that raised thing is clear coat. Have I to lift it up entirely, then sand then go to apply clear coat? Or is it ok if I sand it without remove "that" entirely and then clear coat? considering I don't want / can't do something complex.
Thank you Vid, and greetings from Spain.
Quoted from jibmums:Here you go. Neither are all that bad right now; I did some touchup to Simps a year ago, and ES needs a little touchup on the black ring. I'd like to keep them from getting any more chewed-up looking in the future but spray clear or 2pac is just not possible for now.
No matter how much you sand, you won't get all that black coil dust out of the wood fibers.
You should sand away any stray fibers.
Then paint the wood back to a wood color.
You can mix up a small amount of 2PAC and brush it on since you don't need a glass smooth finish.
Quoted from kilatepin:1 Are these the right steps considering I can't clear coat the playfield at home and must take it to a garage?
Seems like you have a very good grasp of the concepts!
Quoted from kilatepin:2 Do I need to apply a white color base on the scratches before paint them with their color?
You might for lighter colors, darker colors often cover fine.
Just make sure that if the scratches are down to raw wood, you seal the scratch with primer before painting. Otherwise the wood will just keep adsorbing the paint.
Some scratches will just fill in fine with only clearcoat. Moisten the area with Naphtha and see if the scratch becomes invisible.
Quoted from kilatepin:3 Don't know what is the best procedure to fix whatever happened to shield inserts, don't know if that raised thing is clear coat.
Post a really good, close-up picture.
Quoted from kilatepin:Thank you Vid, and greetings from Spain.
Greetings from the warm heart of Yemen.
Quoted from jwilson:You need a UV dryer to use the UV inks, they don't air or heat dry. You can get one of those UV dryers they use for nails, that would work.
Couldn't you place it in sunlight also?
Quoted from AMBoggs:Couldn't you place it in sunlight also?
Depends on what wavelength/strength of UV it needs.
Sunlight won't erase an EPROM (I've tried an entire day in full sunlight and it still passes the checksum), but it will cure certain brands of UV cure clearcoat.
Quoted from lukex:Just want to say thanks to Vid for this guide.
I followed the sections I needed on my FH PF - must have read and re-read them a hundred times. The sanding and buffing parts were especially useful. Here is a pic after buffing with the swirl remover - still needs final polishing. Also, attached an image showing the reflection from my Mac onto the PF. Not perfect due to my lack of skills, but I am very happy with the result.
Thanks again Vid.
P.S...... yes, this is an overlay but I think it turned out OK.....
What treatment do you give the overlay before clearing over it? I have a feeling that it needs a light sanding to give some grit, but I'd like to do this one time only.
Quoted from desertT1:What treatment do you give the overlay before clearing over it? I have a feeling that it needs a light sanding to give some grit, but I'd like to do this one time only.
Yep, I followed the overlay clearcoat guide here http://pinballmagic.com/index.php?main_page=page&id=6&chapter=0
Quoted from vid1900:Post a really good, close-up picture.
FullSizeRender_(resized).jpg
IMG_5642_(resized).JPG
IMG_5640_(resized).JPG
Quoted from vid1900:That first pic looks like the old clearcoat is lifting away from the insert.
Should I remove it completely?
Quoted from kilatepin:Should I remove it completely?
I'd score it along the edge of the insert with a Xacto knife, then scrape it off with a vertically held chisel.
Quoted from vid1900:I'd score it along the edge of the insert with a Xacto knife, then scrape it off with a vertically held chisel.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/18#post-1739707
And after that, should I sand the insert before clear coat the playfield again?
Thank you for your advice.
Quoted from kilatepin:And after that, should I sand the insert before clear coat the playfield again?
Thank you for your advice.
As long as it's a rough surface, the clear can stick to it.
You could sand with 400grit if you need to.
How long to let cure? (2PAC)
I'm cleared, sanded, polished. About to dimple and start reassembly. How long before a pinball can be put on the surface? I've read some places they recommend 6-8 weeks?
I'll post pics when complete. This was not a restoration, more of a touch up, and a clear. But, small steps. I'm SIGNIFICANTLY more confident now.
Thanks!
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:How long to let cure? (2PAC)
Hard to say exactly.
Different brands, temp, humidity, thickness and how accurately you measured your catalyst.
If it stops stinking, and your fingernail can't make a dent, you are probably good.
Most brands take a few months to reach max hardness.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Probably not the correct thread to post this, but in reassembly I'm fighting how to remove and reinstall the metal from this plastic to a new plastic. Is there a tool for this? Bally, EBD.
Stick your soldering iron into the hole, spin the bell, pull loose.
Quoted from UvulaBob:I'm about ready to re-paint the road on my Taxi playfield. I'm assuming the gray they use can be had by mixing some white, some black, and some... other color(s). Any suggestions on what color ratio I should start with?
White + Black and a tiny amount of yellow or purple often nails a Williams game.
Hi Vid,
I'm getting ready to replace the shield inserts in my STtNG.
just want to check 3 things with you.
1.After I sand the inserts (as per the guide)they are not clear anymore?I'm guessing they'll go clear when the clear coat goes on?
2.Did you cover clear coating a small area/single new insert?
3.What should I use to Clean/prep the area around the shield inserts for clear coating?
Thanks!
Quoted from urbanledge:1.After I sand the inserts (as per the guide)they are not clear anymore?I'm guessing they'll go clear when the clear coat goes on?
They will return to clear once clearcoated.
Quoted from urbanledge:2.Did you cover clear coating a small area/single new insert?
It's really hard to do a spot clearing.
Just like on an auto, spot clearing leaves a weak edge that often lifts up over time.
Quoted from urbanledge:3.What should I use to Clean/prep the area around the shield inserts for clear coating?
Gently sand the surrounding area to give the clear some tooth with maybe 800grit. Clean with Naphtha. Spray your clear.
=
You can also clearcoat the insert. Then reinstall it after the clear dries.
If your not going to clearcoat the whole playfield, this may be the least risky route.
Quoted from desertT1:What treatment do you give the overlay before clearing over it? I have a feeling that it needs a light sanding to give some grit, but I'd like to do this one time only.
Appreciate it.
Quoted from urbanledge:Thank you so much,
I am not planning on clearing the whole thing.
If I clear the insert and then install back in.
Would I not need to clear the new keyline decals?
here is a pic of the damage
Sand flat, spray clear, apply decal with keyline, spray clear topcoat.
Quoted from UvulaBob:Some of my plan involves putting white paint or ink on top of the grey road paint after it's set. Is that a bad idea? Should I put a thin layer of clear on top of that grey road paint before putting anything on top of it?
Often it's good to seal lighter colors under a thin layer of clear before doing other colors - especially if there will be frisket work and worry about lifting paint.
Getting ready to remove the temp rails under the playfield, and put the real ones on top.
Any issues with the playfield bending in the process and cracking the clear? Or does the clear keep the playfield flat?
Will clamp and screw the rails on top so eventually the playfield will "bend" (hopefully perfectly straight) to the new position.
I'm probably over thinking as it's damn flat the way it is.
Thoughts?
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Getting ready to remove the temp rails under the playfield, and put the real ones on top.
Any issues with the playfield bending in the process and cracking the clear? Or does the clear keep the playfield flat?
Will clamp and screw the rails on top so eventually the playfield will "bend" (hopefully perfectly straight) to the new position.
I'm probably over thinking as it's damn flat the way it is.
Thoughts?
Sometimes the clear makes the playfield cup upwards, sometimes it twists.
Wood is a wondrous thing.
Most of the time, nothing happens at all, so put your rails on and enjoy your game.
Hey Vid, I picked up a Harlem Globetrotters with full playfield mylar (and sling mylar semicircles *under* that mylar, grr), and no wear under the mylar (so I don't want to remove it, plus I like the way mylar plays). However near the top there was a small rat's nest, and in a few places the edge of the mylar has lifted, and there's dirt underneath.
The most important spot is here on the lower right, because it's visible to the player
IMG_20160622_162555_(resized).jpg
But there's also some problems near the upper hole:
IMG_20160622_162611_(resized).jpg
IMG_20160622_162620_(resized).jpg
IMG_20160622_162605_(resized).jpg
and around the pops
IMG_20160622_162641_(resized).jpg
IMG_20160622_162648_(resized).jpg
is there anything I can do with these? The only things I can think of are either cutting out those areas and living with the slight bump, or attempting to scrape out and clean the dirt somehow, then heat the mylar and maybe stick a bit of clear glue under it...
Quoted from zacaj:is there anything I can do with these? The only things I can think of are either cutting out those areas and living with the slight bump, or attempting to scrape out and clean the dirt somehow, then heat the mylar and maybe stick a bit of clear glue under it...
Cut out the bad sections carefully with an Xacto knife, clean up any filth and old adhesive, and just patch with a new piece of Mylar.
You can keep trimming the new Mylar with the backing still on, until you make the perfect puzzle piece.
(Good pics, BTW)
Quoted from vid1900:Cut out the bad sections carefully with an Xacto knife, clean up any filth and old adhesive, and just patch with a new piece of Mylar.
You can keep trimming the new Mylar with the backing still on, until you make the perfect puzzle piece.
(Good pics, BTW)
Thanks, anything to fix the kickout hole (looks like they might have been nibbling the edge, unless that's just wear). Just Bondo?
I had started just cleaning off other bits of the playfield, and the left outlane (no mylar) had a piece of paint come up, there's about a 2 inch section with a different texture. In the future I'll feel each area before cleaning it (I was just using a bit of Novus#2 to get the dirt off after vacuuming it and then wiping with a dry cloth), but is there anything you'd recommend for cleaning any other areas as best I can? And would it be best to just stick another patch of mylar on afterwards to protect it?
Quoted from zacaj:Thanks, anything to fix the kickout hole (looks like they might have been nibbling the edge, unless that's just wear). Just Bondo?
Those dirty rats certainly were eating it.
Use wood epoxy, Bondo might be too soft in a high wear area like that.
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