(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 6,851 posts
  • 640 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by bssbllr
  • Topic is favorited by 1,561 Pinsiders
  • Topic is sticky in its sub-forum

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 2,152 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

pasted_image (resized).png
4B00EE88-CBD4-48A5-98DC-ECD215412110 (resized).jpeg
0B2D154A-A88B-4C68-9C99-74CF889A2718 (resized).jpeg
DSC00226-cropped (resized).jpg
FFADAFEA-CE22-4B2A-9146-0C68B420CBD8 (resized).jpeg
6F940437-8B63-433F-A7DB-7D2A538A2461 (resized).jpeg
IMG_20191015_190434 (resized).jpg
20190904_093907_resized (resized).jpg
20190902_184639_resized (resized).jpg
20190902_182922_resized (resized).jpg
20190830_194719_resized (resized).jpg
9971FDE8-8EA9-40B7-9866-F27CDA2D2C8F (resized).jpeg
20190505_165523 (resized).jpg
20190715_200021 (resized).jpg
MVIMG_20190630_160309.jpg
CA8EBD25-514B-435F-92CB-1F55E467E5DF (resized).jpeg

Topic index (key posts)

142 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 6851 posts in this topic. You are on page 65 of 138.
#3201 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

That's called "insert wear".
You can scrub the wax out of the cracks with a soft toothbrush and Naphtha.
Then use a detail brush and opaque black paint to fill the cracks (leave the lamps in test mode so you can see any cracks you missed).
Top off the black painted cracks with some 2PAC to protect it.

That was pretty much what I thought I needed to do. I've already purchased the Createx opaque black and my plan was to get a can of the Spraymax 2K and spray it into a glass container then use a dropper and maybe a pin to fill the cracks. I wasn't sure how it would turn out since pretty much everyone in this thread puts an entire layer of clear over the top of these spot fixes.

Do I sand and polish the repairs after they cure? My main concern is how the edges will look compared to the stock playfield surface.

#3202 3 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

You're saying spot clearing with 2PAC? Seems there's always a chorus against spot clearing.

You can fill a crack with 2PAC.

You can't really "spot clear" with 2PAC because the edge is weak and will lift after time.

But in a crack the edge is better protected, and bonds well to the jagged edge.

Quoted from westofrome:

With 2PAC you're looking at masking, booth, respirator, airbrush?

I just use a syringe to gently dispense it into a crack, very controlled, no airborne mist.

#3203 3 years ago
Quoted from No_Skill:

That was pretty much what I thought I needed to do. I've already purchased the Createx opaque black and my plan was to get a can of the Spraymax 2K and spray it into a glass container then use a dropper and maybe a pin to fill the cracks. I wasn't sure how it would turn out since pretty much everyone in this thread puts an entire layer of clear over the top of these spot fixes.

You might just get a quart of 2PAC from the local auto store.

The whole can of 2K will be hard in a few days, for the few drops you are going to use.

The 2PAC will be good for years as long as you don't get any activator into the clear can.

Quoted from No_Skill:

Do I sand and polish the repairs after they cure? My main concern is how the edges will look compared to the stock playfield surface.

The edges are going to be way more shiny than your playfield.

But as you play, it will dull down.

If you are skilled, you might be able to sand it flat, but I'd probably just leave it.

Do an insert way in the back first. Don't do your learning front and center.

#3204 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You might just get a quart of 2PAC from the local auto store.
The whole can of 2K will be hard in a few days, for the few drops you are going to use.
The 2PAC will be good for years as long as you don't get any activator into the clear can.

The edges are going to be way more shiny than your playfield.
But as you play, it will dull down.
If you are skilled, you might be able to sand it flat, but I'd probably just leave it.
Do an insert way in the back first. Don't do your learning front and center.

The power payoff insert has a small chip that looks ideal for a practice run. I'll post after pictures...if it turns out.

#3205 3 years ago

WHY WE NEVER USE POLY TO 'CLEARCOAT' A PLAYFIELD

===============================================

A while ago I made up 1000000000 SBM center horseshoes because they are ruined on every SBM I've ever seen. (how to do it yourself: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/making-new-ball-guides-from-scratch-vids-guide ).

Along the way, apparently I lost a bunch of people's emails, because I still have people mad at me because I never took their order, lol.

One gent who lives by the airport said if I could bring him his guide, he'd not only drive me to the airport and let me leave my car in his garage, but also buy me dinner! This sounded like a deal to me.

After years of searching, he finally found a SBM. He had a playfield that he restored years back hung up on the ceiling of his gameroom, so all he needed was his horseshoe and he was ready to restore the game.

Bob: Hey Vid, I restored this playfield about 6 or so years ago, awaiting the day I could find a SBM.
Vid: Nice work.
B: Yeah, but the whole thing turned amber!
V: Old playfields can change color.
B: No, I painted it white during the restoration. That's not 40 year old paint!
V: Hmmmm
B: Do you think that the heat gathered on the ceiling? It gets pretty hot when all the games are on.
V: Games get way hotter inside the cab that the ceiling ever would. Smoke?
B: Never.
V: You cleared it with....?
B: Spray-can poly.
V: Yeah that explains it, that stuff always turns yellow sooner or latter.
B: On RGP that's what everyone said to use.
V: Well, see if you can get a refund from RGP.
B: Can you remove this if I pay you?
V: I've never been able to get that stuff off, without removing the underlying paint too.
B: Is it going to get darker.
V: Yeah, I'm sure it will.

Here is his playfield, fresh from the ceiling:

49bf2512d942e7d509e6ebc99f163e6aa69b4806 (resized).jpg

#3206 3 years ago

Here is where I used a drill bit to remove the poly along a hole that will be covered by the upper arch.

Bob is right, it was white underneath.

yellow-hole_(resized).jpg

#3207 3 years ago

So when "easy" spray-poly is calling you like a siren to the rocks, resist at all costs.

Don't spend mega hours restoring a playfield, only to permanently ruin it with poly.

#3208 3 years ago

Not to deny 2PAC's benefits, I am wondering though what poly was used. They are not all the same. The traditional oil based stuff nowadays is sold as turning amber, I guess some people want that when used on wood. I have tried the outdoor UV protected stuff and it does go on very clear. They sell it as a product that resists yellowing which of course is a relative thing. In Home Depot in Canada there is oil based, and water based with water based coming in an indoor type and an outdoor UV resistant type.

#3209 3 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

I am wondering though what poly was used.

He said it was Varathane Diamond poly.

#3210 3 years ago

We'll I'm calling my experiment a success. Below is the original insert:

The_Power_1_(resized).JPG

I first painted with Createx opaque black and then put a thin line of clear on:

IMG_1970_(resized).JPG

Then I masked off the raised clear line with frisket so I wouldn't damage the surrounding area:

IMG_1976_(resized).JPG

This is after the first very light sanding with 400 grit:

IMG_1975_(resized).JPG

I went finer and finer to 1200 grit and finally Novus 2:

IMG_1979_(resized).JPG

And the finished product:

IMG_1980_(resized).JPG

It isn't perfect, but it's way better then when I started. Hopefully it will help protect the area as well. I'm working my way to all the other trouble areas and I'm going back over to hit the small corner of "The Power" insert where I sanded through.

#3211 3 years ago

Here's a question for you - I need to fix white text on this Paragon. I could print a decal that's red and paint it white underneath, but I find that the laser printing isn't perfect when it comes to solid colours.

Any suggestions?

Scores Golden Cliff ValueCollect Bonus

#3212 3 years ago

That's a pretty dull red, so a calibrated laser can probably do it nicely.

If not, go to your local mom and pop hobby shop and have them print the decal with their printer than can do white and apply it over your red base coat.

#3213 3 years ago

Vid, is clear always required over createx? For instance, if I touch up an old em game, will the createx just wear through if not clear coated? And I guess that would mean clearing the whole playfield for uniform luster?

#3214 3 years ago
Quoted from sulakd:

Vid, is clear always required over createx? For instance, if I touch up an old em game, will the createx just wear through if not clear coated? And I guess that would mean clearing the whole playfield for uniform luster?

Createx will wear off quickly.

Just like on a car, it's almost impossible to spot clear. The edge is weak and will start to chip.

You can **sometimes** fill a crack or hole with clear, if the edge is sharp enough to give some tooth. It won't be perfect, even if you are pretty good.

#3215 3 years ago

Flatten Playfield for clear question.

Once the edge pieces of wood are removed from the perimeter of the playfield, the playfield no longer wants to sit flat in a rotisserie. The middle sags. I'm assuming it's CRITICAL for the playfield to lay flat while the clear cures? For several weeks?

If I put the wood pieces on the bottom of the playfield to flatten it, I'm wondering about how to get the screw back out of the clear. Tape over screw heads?

Surely there's an easy solution to flatten the playfield in prep to clear, but I'm not thinking about it.

How long to leave the playfield perfectly flat to ensure the clear is dry/cured enough?

Thanks!

#3216 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Surely there's an easy solution to flatten the playfield in prep to clear, but I'm not thinking about it.

Maybe use angle iron on the underside? 2 pieces the full length of the playfield and screw them in on the underside? That's probably what I would try. You'll have holes in the wood but at least it would be on the underside and not the top.

#3217 3 years ago

i am doing a restoration of a apollo 13 , that i found in a stable with cows ,...
after i removed the mylar , who was beyond restoration and already partially removed
there are some insert decals that will need replacement , i would made them with waterslide decals
but do i first clear it lightly and then put the new decals ? some help and advice would be welcome

thanks in advance
i put some pictures before and between
tony

DSC01640_(resized).JPG
DSC01642_(resized).JPG
DSC01687_(resized).JPG
DSC01689_(resized).JPG
DSC01825_(resized).JPG
DSC01821_(resized).JPG
DSC01818_(resized).JPG
DSC01823_(resized).JPG

#3218 3 years ago
Quoted from Catch86:

Maybe use angle iron on the underside? 2 pieces the full length of the playfield and screw them in on the underside? That's probably what I would try. You'll have holes in the wood but at least it would be on the underside and not the top.

You can most likely find some existing holes to reuse.

#3219 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Once the edge pieces of wood are removed from the perimeter of the playfield, the playfield no longer wants to sit flat in a rotisserie. The middle sags. I'm assuming it's CRITICAL for the playfield to lay flat while the clear cures?

Just screw some rails to the back of the playfield. Don't use screws that go all the way through to the face of the playfield.

For instance, drywall screws have fat enough thread to catch in normal #6 size holes.

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

How long to leave the playfield perfectly flat to ensure the clear is dry/cured enough?

Every brand of clear is different, but it's usually pretty hard in a few days.

#3220 3 years ago
Quoted from tonybelgium:i am doing a restoration of a apollo 13 , that i found in a stable with cows ,...
after i removed the mylar , who was beyond restoration and already partially removed
there are some insert decals that will need replacement , i would made them with waterslide decals
but do i first clear it lightly and then put the new decals ? some help and advice would be welcome

It's in better shape than most A13 playfields.

Clean the whole playfield, lightly sand, apply a thin layer of clear, start applying decals and touching up paint.

#3221 3 years ago

hey thanks , for the info , wil post the results , the playfield was black, with all
the dirt on it , there was no glas on top , i was expecting much wurse
i am missing 2 plastics , but placed a request for hq scans so i can make them
playfield is completly emty made about 900 pictures

#3222 3 years ago

Vid, there's a school of thought that painting over clear creates a layered "3-D effect". Is this why you recommend a thin layer? Is the 3-D effect a real problem?

#3223 3 years ago
Quoted from westofrome:

Vid, there's a school of thought that painting over clear creates a layered "3-D effect". Is this why you recommend a thin layer? Is the 3-D effect a real problem?

Yes, it can be a real problem if you paint over thick clear.

You only want a super thin layer to lock down the existing paint.

Don't do what this well known "restoration" shop did:

spirit_(resized).jpg

#3224 3 years ago

what a strange effect !you do have th :-)e impression of 3d

#3225 3 years ago

any idea on how to repair this ?

apo13a_(resized).PNG

#3226 3 years ago
Quoted from tonybelgium:

any idea on how to repair this ?

The picture is too blurry to see what the problem is.

Take another few pics. If the camera won't focus, put a bright light on it.

#3227 3 years ago

it's a deep impression of a metal post
that was too hard tightened

#3228 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yes, it can be a real problem if you paint over thick clear.
You only want a super thin layer to lock down the existing paint.
Don't do what this well known "restoration" shop did:

Is it "normal" to paint x-colors, then lock with clear and repeat 2-3 times? Or should you only clear once and then paint all colors?

#3229 3 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Is it "normal" to paint x-colors, then lock with clear and repeat 2-3 times? Or should you only clear once and then paint all colors?

Depending on how extensive the repairs are, you could certainly have 2-3 thin layers of clear over the course of the restoration.

#3230 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Depending on how extensive the repairs are, you could certainly have 2-3 thin layers of clear over the course of the restoration.

Okay good. Have to replace nearly all colors and don't want that effect. Because when applying water slide decals. You don't do it directly over new paint do you? Don't you clear between?

#3231 3 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Okay. Because when applying water slide decals. You don't do it directly over new paint do you? Don't you clear between?

I usually clear first, so the waterslides have that slick surface to adhere to.

#3232 3 years ago

here are some better pictures
repair with epoxy?

DSC01846_(resized).JPG
DSC01848_(resized).JPG
DSC01847_(resized).JPG

#3233 3 years ago
Quoted from tonybelgium:

here are some better pictures
repair with epoxy?

Plug the hole 1/2 way with tissue paper, and fill hole and surrounding area with epoxy resin.

Pull tissue paper out from the backside and re-drill the hole.

#3234 3 years ago

Here's one for you. I've been hitting this with alcohol and MF but no matter what I do, I can't get the swirls out. If I press any harder or go longer I just wipe out the ink. Is there something else I can do or do I just have to live with it?

We don't have Bleche White in Canada, and I hear the good stuff isn't available anymore anyway.

Heavy Ball swirl

#3235 3 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Here's one for you. I've been hitting this with alcohol and MF but no matter what I do, I can't get the swirls out. If I press any harder or go longer I just wipe out the ink. Is there something else I can do or do I just have to live with it?

If the paint itself is cracked (like it was stored in a garage or something), then all the scrubbing in the world will not be able to clean the cracks off of it.

#3236 3 years ago

I have what I think are some decals ordered from DecalPaper.com about a year ago. I remember you cautioned against using "old stock". Is a year too old? Do I need to throw these out?

Also, they caution against using them in a laser printer that's been powered on for too long. They suggest I use them only immediately after the printer has been turned on. Do you have any experience with decals from DecalPaper.com melting onto the fuser? That sure would suck.

#3237 3 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

I have what I think are some decals ordered from DecalPaper.com about a year ago. I remember you cautioned against using "old stock". Is a year too old? Do I need to throw these out?
Also, they caution against using them in a laser printer that's been powered on for too long. They suggest I use them only immediately after the printer has been turned on. Do you have any experience with decals from DecalPaper.com melting onto the fuser? That sure would suck.

Keep them in a zip lock bag to keep them fresh.

Never put any decals in a hot printer.

Try to print everything within a few minutes of turning on the printer.

#3238 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Keep them in a zip lock bag to keep them fresh.

Done! They've been on my shelf in their bag, unopened, since I got them.

Never put any decals in a hot printer.

Hmmm. There goes the idea of using the one at work, I guess. I should investigate its sleep mode settings. If it cools the fuser off while in sleep mode, maybe I can go in on a weekend.

#3239 3 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

Done! They've been on my shelf in their bag, unopened, since I got them.

Hmmm. There goes the idea of using the one at work, I guess. I should investigate its sleep mode settings. If it cools the fuser off while in sleep mode, maybe I can go in on a weekend.

If you are using business quality MFP, it really doesn't matter when you use it as the temps will be nearly identical at all times. Fuser temp is controlled by laser process, and + or - a couple of degrees at all times when printing. Surrounding components do get warm, but the fuser is the "oven" and by far the hottest component. "Stickers" would best be printed on either an inkjet (cold printing) or on a small laser printer with very short paper path. Additionally, if there is a paper option for "transparency" or "labels" then you should use this as the fuser temps will be set lower by the machine to avoid creating shrinkydinks inside the printer.

#3240 3 years ago

Vid,

I have a question about 20 year old NOS playfields.

I know they should be cleared properly and sealed on the back.

Should the inserts be preemptively glued, like a small fillet of epoxy, to avoid loosening of the 20 year old glue?

#3241 3 years ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Vid,
I have a question about 20 year old NOS playfields.
I know they should be cleared properly and sealed on the back.
Should the inserts be preemptively glued, like a small fillet of epoxy, to avoid loosening of the 20 year old glue?

Some inserts will probably be loose already.

Gluing them all is not a bad idea.

#3242 3 years ago
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:

"Stickers" would best be printed on either an inkjet

Inkjet fades too fast, and sometimes reacts with the clearcoat.

Laser is what you want.

#3243 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Some inserts will probably be loose already.
Gluing them all is not a bad idea.

For this, what might be a good procedure?

Some Titebond III to swell the wood, followed by an epoxy fillet?

I Think insert movement might be responsible for some of the ghosting on these PF restorations.

Or just an Epoxy?

#3244 3 years ago

I just use the epoxy.

There is very little glue area because of the wood shelf in each hole.

#3245 3 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I just use the epoxy.
There is very little glue area because of the wood shelf in each hole.

Ok, will do.

Thanks for the advice.

#3246 3 years ago

I am about to cc a CftBL pf. What is your opinion of cc'ing the halo window? I figure the cc would be a more durable surface.

#3247 3 years ago
Quoted from Jjsmooth:

I am about to cc a CftBL pf. What is your opinion of cc'ing the halo window? I figure the cc would be a more durable surface.

Clear is not all that tough of a surface.

I'd rather leave it bare plastic.

#3248 3 years ago

Saw this at Harbor Freight this weekend. On sale for 5 bucks. Thought it looked good for playfield teardowns.IMG_20160611_150215029_(resized).jpg

#3249 3 years ago

So, I've read this entire thread twice. I have an HP 4600 scanner, airbrushes, Createx paint. I have spray guns, filters, dryers for the compressor. I have clear coat. I have an ALPS printer and laserjet clear waterslide decal paper and I have Adobe Photoshop 7.0.

Wish me luck. The paint is crumbling away as I speak

20160530_222533_(resized).jpgIMG_20160613_195513057_(resized).jpg

#3250 3 years ago

angry_video_games_nerd_by_lecjacks_(resized).jpg

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 44.99
Electronics
PinballElectronics.com
$ 30.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
$ 149.95
Boards
Allteksystems
$ 149.00
$ 14.50
Electronics
PinballElectronics.com
From: $ 45.00
Displays
PinballSolutions.eu
$ 8.00
Electronics
Third Coast Pinball
There are 6851 posts in this topic. You are on page 65 of 138.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside