Sana'a
Quoted from Iizi:How would you do white letters?
The local hobby shop has a printer that can print with white, gold or silver inks.
(Topic ID: 33446)
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Quoted from abukede:I have only tow minor problems with the paint that is bit damaged where the spring steel from ramps
You can't match and touch up that mauve color, so just make sure the ramp is tightened while being pushed all the way forward upon reassembly.
Quoted from Pinball-Pat:Hi Vid,
How about a mini howto on this guy?
WOZ is a tough one to match with a decal, so I would expand the black edge keyline.
Using frisket, I'd mask off the curve just inside those chips and paint it black to the edge.
Quoted from Pinball-Pat:Now how to prep the damaged area? Can I exacto cut away loose clear, or dremel buff it somehow? Or will the paint fill it adequately?
You can drip some new clear and let it get wicked under any voids, gluing down loose flakes.
Sand with 800 grit, frisket, paint, clear over the top.
Quoted from tezting:Hi vid,
I am mixing paint in small plastic jars. Is it safe to put a small zinc plated nut in the jar for better mixing? (Like the ball in spray paint)
A glass marble is safe.
I'd worry that a the steel nut will rust, zinc or not.
Quoted from jimy_speedt:I used genuine Frisket for the blank, but I have white traces on the black on the edges.
Either you did not press the edge of the Frisket down with your fingernail after cutting/weeding, or it's a bad roll of Frisket.
Quoted from hisokajp:so what would I actually ask a local car body shop if I wanted to see if they can do one of my PF? Just if they could give it a couple coat of automotive clear coat? What would be a 'normal' price range to see if they are not trying to rip me off?
Tell them that you want a them to shoot a pinball playfield, FLAT ON IT'S BACK with 2PAC.
Tell them you will have it pre sanded with 1000 grit.
Try for $50
1 week later
Quoted from sohchx:My clear is separating from itself. What is going on??? I have done three fields before this with no issues all prepped the same exact way. Now this
That is the wonders of Silicone unfortunately.
Somebody used Pledge, Wildcat, or some other **great** chemical on that playfield and the silicone got into the pores of the wood.
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The good news is that if you sand with 600, and then rough up the insides of those craters, the next coat of clear will lay out normally.
Throw out the old sandpaper you used on that playfield, it is now completely contaminated.
Quoted from sohchx:So my next step should be to block it all completely down with 600?
You don't have to take it too far down.
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Hit it with 600 so you flatten the playfield.
Now you can see all the shiny craters.
With a soft, flexible, well worn piece of sandpaper, degloss the craters by hand. You can use a brass brush on small craters. Clean the brass brush if it's new with lacquer thinner, to get any oils off of it.
Shoot another coat of clear. It will fill all the craters 90%.
Drip clear into any stubborn craters with an eyedropper.
Now you can sand back to totally flat with 600 .
Quoted from dr_nybble:In your experience with properly heat cured Createx is this a concern? Can I safely apply frisket/mask on a previously painted layer or is it just asking for trouble.
You've got to be careful.
Usually I sand the entire playfield with 800 to give some tooth to the new paint colors, so that helps.
But putting some clear over lighter colors, or thin painted lines is certainly a good idea.
If I'm clearing some other playfields, I'll often "clean out the gun" by spot-clearing over touch up work on another piece.
Quoted from Dr-Tommy:I want a solid fix, however I am hesitating to paint because I'm not sure if it's best to remove the entire mylar (check the second picture, the mylar is fairly large and I'm afraid to damage the PF and insert decals by trying to remove such a huge thing).
The least risky thing is to fill the hole with epoxy and stick on the decal.
The most risky thing is to remove the Mylar, paint and clearcoat the playfield.
The scoop has lots of wear, so you might look around and see if it's time to restore the whole thing.
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If you are nervous, then just decal. You can always restore the whole playfield some other time.
Quoted from Dr-Tommy:Also, you can see the Jackpot insert is slightly lifting (see the line in the yellow border) and if I remove the mylar I guess this will get worse as well.
Pretty normal to see the valley between the insert and the playfield. Glue it from the back to minimize the movement.
If you remove the Mylar without clearcoating the playfield, you will start wearing away all the paint - it's a heavy traffic area of the playfield.
Quoted from TopMoose:I'm debating if I want to take on this machine as a restoration project. Bally's original top coat is flaking off the inserts - how does one fix something like this? Would the old stuff need to come off or can it just be cleared over and sanded level?
Make a clear template like you would for insert blooming:
...and then scrape off any crappy old topcoat.
Fill any sunken inserts with clearcoat:
Decal all the black keylines, and then clear your whole playfield.
Quoted from kissedin:Is there a remedy for this?
It's fixable.
Fill a syringe with 2PAC, remove the wire guide, inject clear under the chip. If clear won't travel all the way to the outside of the crack, lift the chip GENTLY with a dental pick. If you still can't get every part filled, drill out any empty pocket with an Xacto knife and inject where you need it.
Quoted from west6926:I would appreciate your opinion on the raised insert shown. As you can see there are a couple of very tiny chips and I want to prevent any further damage. The clear is cracked at that front edge of the image. The edge is so cleanly cracked that it looks like the edge of Mylar
Warm it up and press it back flat into the playfield (pg 1).
Then glue it from behind with epoxy to keep it from moving again.
Quoted from xsvtoys:I don't think anyone resents Vid for all his work, everything I see is positive. Some do disagree with some of what Vid says, and in those cases, there are some arguments and disagreements, but to me it is all very civilized on all sides.
Of course there are people who disagree with me, and that's a healthy part of any serious discussion. I really do appreciate everyone's input.
There are 2 people who ALWAYS disagree with me; the **Vid, you're wrong** guys (or possibly it's a single guy posting under 2 different profiles). Whether it's simply ego or a grudge when I knocked the long standing high score off their machine, there is nothing I can do about them. At least they're obvious.
Quoted from jboner1058:Vid, have you ever used a die cutter like a cricut to cut frisket? These patterns on my phantom are super intricate and I'm afraid to touch the playfield with my xacto
Practice with a piece of Frisket on a CD cover or something.
A light drag is all it takes. Swap blades often (buy a 100 pack).
Quoted from DougZ3:Did you cut the frisket around the inside of the ragged black outline?
Yes, I cut the Frisket **just** inside of the black line and around the face of the insert.
Quoted from DougZ3:Did you repaint it? If you repainted it, how did you do that?
I sprayed White Createx paint over the old text and old white ink.
I heated the Createx, and then peeled off the frisket.
Then I put on the decal with the new text and keyline around the insert.
Quoted from surfinvet:I have a couple inserts that I'd like to correct from further flaking/damage. Would it be ok to spot treat the seams with clearcoat or is there a better approach?
The Mummy insert may need to be warmed up and pressed back flush with the playfield.
The others look like normal movement - the wood expands at a different rate than the plastic insert.
Once you are sure that the inserts are flush, glue them from behind with 2 part epoxy to keep any further movement at a minimum.
The Mummy insert needs paint touch up before clearcoat, so you might just wax them and cover them with Mylar until you are in a position to restore the playfield.
Quoted from EvanDickson:The shooter lane on my Mousin' project is pretty crusty. I'm not in a position to clear coat, I don't have a garage, attic, or work room, and its the dead of winter so I'm restricted to indoors in my dining room. My inclination is to mask around the lane with tape and newspaper and use a spray can varnish. Is one thing better than another thing? Poly urethane, etc?
Basically I don't want to accidentally spray on something that will actually slow the ball.
It's probably going to require more work than you think.
First, use some Naphtha to see how that lane is going to look with a coating on it.
The stains may instantly become much more apparent.
If you can't sand the staining out, then you have to paint over it, blending it in.
Once you have a nice looking shooter lane, you can just brush some oil based poly to protect it.
1 week later
Quoted from jibmums:I am unfamiliar with this era of Bally playfield, can I use M.E. and iso alcohol?
Yes, very carefully!
Quoted from jibmums:Is there a topcoat that this will remove?
The topcoat will be gone after 2 swipes of the Magic Eraser.
Quoted from jibmums:I would like to use the Treasure Cove polishing kit after cleaning, will the #2 polish be too abrasive to start with?
If the playfield already has spots that have worn through, I'd probably not use the TC kit.
Quoted from jibmums:The non-mylared areas are my concern - can I use M.E. and iso if I'm not clearcoating?
Williams Sys11 are probably the games with the worst topcoat in the entire history of pinball.
Magic Eraser and alcohol will almost instantly remove any trace of remaining topcoat, and then the ball will be wearing directly on the ink.
Quoted from jibmums:Let's say I don't try for a deep clean to remove the ball swirl dirt, and just remove the grunge caked onto the playfield instead. How much harm is Naphtha and then Novus 2 going to cause?
Naphtha will remove the old wax, but not cause any harm.
Novus2 will sand off some of the topcoat, so be very careful.
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You will most likely be disappointed in any **polishing** of those old playfields.
Even when I have a NOS one come into the shop, that old lacquer topcoat is just too thin to really put a nice shine on. I've shined them up with a buffer, but it really makes all the graining stand out (some would say it looks worse).
I will gently suggest you clean with Naphtha, wax with a good paste wax and enjoy your games....
Quoted from Fytr:Is it okay to just re-keyline those inserts that need it, or would all the inserts need to be done (possible future fading issue? even with black?)?
You can certainly just touch up the insert wear on the ones that need it.
Quoted from Fytr:Given the ball trail marks remaining (pic below), would it be crazy to just apply a small dabble of color-matched paint to hide it, or would basically the entire region of the playfield need to be repainted?
You can't do "spot" color repair. It will fade at a different rate and will stick out like a sore thumb.
Frisket off the playfield, and repaint the entire area.
(although I would first try and see if a Magic Eraser and 94% alcohol will lift those black marks out. )
Quoted from tonycip:Hi vid . I often find machines with nice looking play field but a few of the inserts are raised.
What's the best way to deal with that .I know it's in here somewhere. .
Pics on page one.
Warm the inserts with a hair dryer, press them flat with a large C-clamp and a flat piece of wood.
Epoxy them from behind to keep them from popping up again.
If the insert is loose enough to push out without damaging anything, then you can rough up the sides of the insert and goop a bunch of epoxy into the hole in the playfield.
If the insert is pretty solid, then glue the insert from the backside once it cools down.
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:Any tips for removing really heavy Mylar glue? I took the Mylar off a SF2, and all the glue stayed on the playfield?
Pg 1:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration#post-547712
Quoted from dudah:Thanks Vid, I was scared to use sandpaper as I can't clear it. Plus the part on the bottom is out of the groove, guess I'll just sand it by hand.
If you can't put some clear down - don't sand it.
The bare wood will quickly turn to a big, black, spongy mess.
Quoted from swanng:Vid-
What epoxy do YOU prefer for re-gluing problematic (raised/lowered) inserts? And what retailer(s) carry it?
Thanks
Greg
The thick stuff in the tubes at HF seems to work fine.
http://www.harborfreight.com/super-strong-quick-drying-epoxy-92665.html
They make some with solvent in it to **really** bond to plastics, but it's a little runny.
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/epxy_plstc_s/overview/Loctite-Epoxy-Plastic-Bonder.htm
Quoted from tezting:How dangerous is dust from clear? (When sanding).
Avoid breathing any dust.
Respirator cartridges that have more than 40 hours of use are no longer safe for chemical use, but they can still function for dust protection.
1. Do not use those paper "dust masks", they are useless.
2. Sanding outdoors, downwind from your garden is good.
3. Wet sanding is excellent for controlling dust.
4. Any dry sanding should have a Shop-vac hooked up to keep the dust from contaminating your workspace.
5. Assume any industrial paint coatings (like a pinball cab) contains lead, no matter what year it was made.
Quoted from Fred736:Any issues wet standing around thé openings? Any chances of water sleeping under the clear in those locations?
If your openings are raw wood, be careful.
If they are filled with clear, paint, or sealer you are probably OK.
Wet sanding isn't flooded, it's just wet to keep the sandpaper from clogging.
That sucks bigtime, but at least it happened up at the top, farthest from the players.
You can try cutting along one edge with a BRAND NEW Xacto blade and then injecting some clear beneath. Clamp while it cures with wax paper and rubber block.
Or you can just cut the lifted sections completely out, and then fill the holes to the top with clear (overfill a little, just like you were filling a cupped insert).
Take lots of pictures, you will be surprised how good the repair will come out because the clear is still fresh.
Quoted from frankg:Would injecting and filling with crazy glue be a bad idea?
Worst idea ever.
Quoted from frankg:What should we use to 'inject' the clear if I go that route?
Quoted from frankg:Kinda figured there was no easy path to fix this.
It won't be a hard fix.
Quoted from jibmums:Not a restoration question, but after seeing the above pix, it prompts me to ask - what's the deal with those indentations at both ends of rollover switch slots? I've seen playfields both with and without them, were they routed into the playfields at the factory, or caused by years of balls rolling over the rollover slot? Always wondered about this.
Those are pressed into the playfield at the factory.
It keeps the ball from hanging up in the slots, and keeps the slots from tearing out from ball wear.
Quoted from tezting:My current playfield has some pressed and some that is not. I thought it was wear and would "fix" it. But I guess it is best to leave it alone?
If the playfield has a good clearcoat on it, you will probably crack the clear trying to create those depressions.
If the playfield is being restored, you could add them.
If the playfield has some from the factory, they probably have the ones that the designer thought were important.
Quoted from mark532011:The link to the Marcos mylar sheets a couple of pages back mentions mylaring the entire playfield. Is that a reasonable option?
Back in the day some Operators did in fact Mylar the entire playfield, especially the 80s Williams games that had the crappiest clear you could imagine.
Quoted from mark532011:It seems like it would be an all-or-nothing approach as if there was a problem you would most likely have to start over with a fresh piece of wood,
Make sure you wax the playfield before you stick down the Mylar, or it could lift the paint if you try to remove it later.
Quoted from mark532011:but once done it sounds easier to maintain than removing everything and waxing every year.
You don't have to remove everything to wax every month. On games like Whitewater where it is impossible to get to the rear lower loops, that would be a good spot for Mylar.
Quoted from jimy_speedt:Hi,
Back to my painting work. Weeks ago, I asked about what to use for thin black lines. Posca pen was not suited as it would bleed or be diluted by the clearcoat. I read the section about how to paint thin black straight line. But in my case, thin lines can have any shape.
Are there brushes thin enough to fufill the task ? thanks
Brush won't make clean lines.
You could use Frisket and then spray your black, or you could make some waterslide decals.
Quoted from hisokajp:What size of bits to you recommend to use? something like the 1/8" on this set?
»
You will want a few small sizes depending on the hole in question.
Think of those little headless finishing nails in some games....
Quoted from jimy_speedt:Thanks,
Sorry to ask again. As I touch up with acrylic colour, drawing lines with an acrylic ballpen is not an option ?
All the ones I have tested have smeared when I have cleared over them .
If you are going to try some kind of paint pen, test on a piece of white painted wood, then clear over it, before you commit to an entire playfield.
Quoted from Insane:Vid, i have a question regarding removal of mylar. This is a thought i had, could you, or has anyone ever tried compressed air. Say take a ball inflation needle and insert into a bubble, and very slowly add pressure. Seems like it would pop the mylar off of the playfield. Maybe if you rubbed the edges of the bubble as you did it. Again just a thought i had, could be the worst thing ever to try, so please don't try thinking i said its a good idea.
The problem is not so much removing the Mylar, it's not removing the paint with the Mylar.
The older the playfield, the more likely HEAT is going to be needed to soften the adhesive.
90's playfields can often use freezing (with upsidedown canned air) to remove the Mylar.
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Be aware, that there are some playfields that no matter what you do, the Mylar can't be removed without damage - especially over the inserts.
Leave these playfields alone.
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Don't remove Mylar unless it is bubbling and trapping the ball or if you are in the process of clearcoating the playfield.
Otherwise, let the Mylar do it's job protecting the playfield.
Quoted from mollyspub:Vid
Here are some pics of my recently installed totan playfield as per our conversation. Please help!
Good photos.
Those look like normal scratches.
Wax the game, put in another set of new balls.
Once the clear is hard enough to take a polish, you can buff it with Novus2. If it's still new, it might be too soft.
Quoted from BigSpinner:I have a donated HS I'm doing my 1st full restoration on and I have a handful of inserts I'm not sure if I should scrape completely and decal or just touch up slightly or leave alone. Most of the damage is in the finish, but I have no feel for what will look acceptable after its cleared and what won't. I'm planning to decal the key lining anyway, it's just getting the lettering right that worries me. Would you give me a quick "what would Vid do" for each of these?
Wipe the current inserts with Naphtha to see what they will look like cleared.
Since you already need to decal to restore many of those Keylines, you could just put new text over the old text at the same time.
A little LED flashlight will light them up so you can see any chips in the black ink.
Quoted from e_lectro:Take a look at this Stellar Wars, how do you handle areas like this with all of the speckling and irregular edges?
You could repaint the solid color, then put a waterslide decal over the top with the black dots.
Even if you were just retouching a few chips by hand, those black spots are a restorers dream.....instant camouflage.
Quoted from BigSpinner:Did anybody ever figure out what causes this?
Yep, that's the classic Silicone crap that got soaked into the playfield.
Rough up the depressions with sandpaper, drip in 2PAC with glass eyedropper, sand it all back flat.
Quoted from Jtslade:Does anyone have any input on wet sanding pneumatically? I'd like to get a sander that works for clearing play fields.. Harbor Freight one would be nice.. any tips from you guys would be helpful.
Quoted from D-Gottlieb:How much of the playfield needs to be disassembled prior to spraying the clear? Does the underside need to be completely stripped?
Quoted from Jtslade:Also any tips for tracking down sources of 2PAC? I am having a hard time here in South Florida... The Shop Line series seems to be difficult for me to get ahold of. Or any 2PAC for that matter.
There are over 4000 sellers in the USA
Distributor locator:
http://us.ppgrefinish.com/PPG-Refinish/home.aspx?lang=en-us
PPG Omni is available at most O'Reilly Auto Parts Stores.
Quoted from Jtslade:Where do you get your Norton Black Ice Sand paper from?
Woodcraft, Amazon, or any Auto Store:
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/146331/norton-9-x-11-sandwet-sanding-sheets-2000-grit-5-pack.aspx
http://www.amazon.com/Norton-NOR39385-Waterproof-Sanding-Package/dp/B000PDLG4G
Quoted from Dillonsdaddy:I'm reticent to tackle the gouge mark above the left flipper here in this pic as it is adjacent to paint I'd like not to disturb.
Yep, that's a tough one.
If it were on my bench, I'd scan the entire area.
Mask off the paint and using a detail sander, take it down to wood, including removing the "Kings & Queens" lettering on the wood (too hard to possibly sand around that intricate lettering).
Match the shellac, allow to dry, and then re-decal the "Kings & Queens" lettering with black waterslide decal.
Quoted from Dillonsdaddy:How do I tint Shellac darker? I have an "amber" but the original has either become darker somehow or a darker shellac was used.
You can buy different color shellac flakes, and use layers to get the correct matched color.
It will darken over time, so if you are on the edge of a shade, go lighter.
1 week later
Quoted from hisokajp:Is that the one form HD? I could not fine one that specify Isocyanate rated?
http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Medium-Lead-Paint-Removal-Respirator-62093HA1-C/202080148
http://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Large-Paint-Project-Respirator-6311PA1-A/100195886
They are not stocked in the dust mask section.
They are in the Mold Products section.
Quoted from robotron911:In furniture repair, if there is a dent or gouge in UNFINISHED wood you simply apply a damp paper towel and a hot iron and steam it out. The steam will exand the wood fibers and many times you can completely remove the damage.
You can certainly remove a dent with steam, but not a gouge.
When a gouge occurs, the wood fibers are gone. So we can't expand them because they are no longer there.
Even with a dent, if you can see that the wood fibers have broken, you won't be able to expand them without the broken fibers looking darker when you stain - accenting the repaired area. So even if you puff the fibers back up, you will still have to sand past the broken ones.
Quoted from robotron911:I have a suggestion vs. just sanding the ball trails
A ball trail (let's say it's worn into the shooter lane arch) happens where the clear coat has worn through and now the ball is wearing away the wood fibers.
The wood is worn and the remaining fibers are filled with black coil dust.
So if you think about it, steam won't help us in a ball trail repair:
1. The wood fibers have been worn away, so there are no compressed fibers to expand.
2. The remaining wood fibers are broken and "rough".
3. The wood has been soaked with sealer before screenprinting, and then cleared over in the final step. This makes it not absorb water evenly
4. Black metal dust has contaminated the wood fibers.
That leaves us with sanding down to undamaged wood (removing the coil dust in the process), or filling the wear and then painting over the filler to match the surrounding playfield.
Quoted from Shapeshifter:Removing unwanted post from p/f. Leaving a screw hole visible between flippers. Red/black color. EM.
You could just put a plastic screw hole plug in the hole.
That way the next owner could return it to factory if they wanted.
If that's the only problem with the playfield, I'd just put a black plastic plug into it and play the hell out of it.
If it was getting restored, then I'd scan the "MFRS. CHICAGO SI, ILL.", fill the hole with Bondo, paint the entire area matching red/black, put the lettering back on with a decal, and clear coat.
Quoted from Pinphila:Vid, I love reading your guides. Thank you! How would you repair this damage on a Wcs? After reading your guide, my thinking was remove loose pieces, sand, fill with clear coat, water slide decal on top. Or....replace insert.
Thank you!image_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpeg
I'd worry that the clear might not stick to that glue (or whatever it is) on the inserts.
Don't pull the inserts out until you are sure you can get new ones, but I'm leaning towards replacement.
Quoted from Pinphila:I have no clue what the substance is on the insert? It looks like there is an insert then glued on the artwork piece. Or it's he insert material cracking.
I tried to find the specific insert but no luck yet.
Would a casting resin work? Or clear epoxy?
Search Pinballlife, PPS, PBR and see if you can find those inserts (or mic them and post the diameter here for some used ones).
Resin or Epoxy is not going to make a durable insert.
Quoted from jibmums:Vid, what's the best course of action for tackling these wear areas underneath the ball drops in my Earthshaker? I was just planning to fill each worn area with a little 5-minute epoxy, skim it with the edge of a credit card before dry so it's level with the playfield surface, then add a piece of mylar once dry. I won't be clearcoating this playfield.
100_7127_(resized).JPG100_7126.JPG100_7125.JPG
I'd use some wood epoxy because it is a little less brittle.
Regular epoxy or Bondo will chip out under repeated ball drops.
Once dry, ease the slot with a rat-tail file.
Like dsuperbee says, the Cliffy switch protectors are the just the ticket for this problem.
Quoted from Elicash:I have a Taxi pf that someone clear coated. Looks very good, but appears many layers of clear were put down. Having an issue at a couple post holes where clear is separating away from pf.
Take the apron off and try to figure out what they put on the playfield.
Looks like it could be Varathane.
See if it's alcohol soluble, water soluble or MEK soluble.
Quoted from Jtslade:The pancake and hot dog 3 gallon compressor is on sale at HB..49$
Anyone use these for airbrushing? Good experience or is it too small?
You could run a small airbrush, but not a HVLP for clearcoating or a wet-sander.
Quoted from Elicash:Vid, spoke to the person who did the pf. He says it is 2PAC.
Any ideas on a (relatively) easy fix?
Pretty easy.
Mix up some 2PAC in a syringe and repair just like a ghosted insert:
Quoted from Coyote:Chris mentioned to me that he no-longer wants to do PF only work, since it takes too long and takes away from full-game restores.
Was it a sys11 game, lol?
I hope he keeps doing playfields, I saw one he just did a few weeks ago - nice.
Quoted from mack505:Crap... There was a piece of plastic stuck sitting in the outlane, I pulled it up and the play field graphic came with it.... what can I even do here, it's an image? (Sega Harley Davidson) Ugh...
image_(resized).jpeg
Scan a good playfield, print a white waterslide.
Quoted from lb1:Vid, I am looking into options to clear, one of them being to rent a booth. Taking into account shooting the clear, cure time, sanding, and polishing, how long would it take to do a playfield, start to end. Thanks.
Shooting a layer of clear takes about 2 minutes.
Cure depends on the product, it is usually hard enough for a 2nd coat in 15 minutes - sand in 24 hours.
Polishing depends on the product, but most are pretty hard after 1 to 7 days.
Quoted from Elicash:Assuming i don't need to depopulate the whole playfield to do this?
Nope, should go quick.
Quoted from Elicash:Also, is this safe to do in my basement or should i take playfield outside to do this?
Take it outside.
I know you won't be spraying, but better safe than your kids growing fur on their tongues.
Quoted from packie1:Vid,
Just saw this last week and I thought I would pass it on to everyone. Seems price for a white ink printer is coming within range of us regular folk.
white_printer_(resized).JPG
Mike
It's funny that ALPS printers that all the hobby shops use to print white (and metallic silver and gold) were only $499.....
Might be time for ALPS to get back to making printers, because they are selling for $800 used on Ebay.
Quoted from Pinphila:2) can't get ppg 2pac here, any other?
Kayfield Automotive Paints 1030
35 East Uwchlan Avenue Bldg 4 Suite 324
Exton, PA 19341
(610) 518-0200
-
Spray Products Corp
1323 Conshohocken Rd
Plymouth Meeting, PA 19462
(800) 543-7710
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City Auto Paint & Supply Inc
2652 South 8th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19148
(215) 336-4005
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Bill Flannery Automotive
247 East Girard Avenue 1st Floor
Philadelphia, PA 19125
(215) 291-5557
Quoted from sohchx:I want to remove print from some of my inserts but do not want to remove them to do so because they are perfectly level. How would I go about it without damaging the art work surrounding the insert? Unless I have somehow missed it?
A sharp chisel, held vertically, is all you need.
Very easy once you have done it!
Quoted from Pinphila:The problem is unless you have a commercial business, they won't sell to you.
There are 19 other companies within 50 miles of you.
Or if you are homebound, call Welle (you have to call, not order by web) and have it shipped to your house.
Quoted from Insane:Quick question, I am working on a Pinbot. I want to glue 1 of the plastics back together. I was thinking clear epoxy, then take a piece of blisterpack material and put it on the bottom to reinforce. Any epoxy I should look for, or stay away from?
Quoted from Nick_C:I am about to start touching up a kiss playfield, i have an overlay of the center section (first pic) that i want to put down. I imagine that i would need to sand it down? What grit of sandpaper should i use? The second picture is of the area in question.
I also need to touch up both snakes and part of peter criss and ace frehley. Would i just sand (feather) the areas locally? Then clear, touch up, and then final clear?
Job one is to glue in the missing inserts. New ones won't match the old ones color wise, so make sure your entire rows are all one color.
Job 2 is to fill all the cupped inserts so they are level.
Job 3 is to shoot a thin layer of 2PAC to lock down all the loose paint.
Scan the entire playfield and make black printed waterslide decals of Peter and Ace. Spray over the old art with white paint, then apply the decals to restore their faces.
Quoted from Nick_C:If I understand correctly, wherever the paint is worn, you do not sand and feather edges first?
correct.
Quoted from Nick_C:All you do is clear touchup and reclear?
If the paint was solid, you could clean it up with Magic Eraser first, but if it's all flaky, you've got to lock down what you've got.
Quoted from Nick_C:When is the leveling/smoothing of the playfield done?
After you have done all your restoration.
Quoted from e_lectro:I always thought the most important part of painting was a well attached bottom layer. If the paint is flaking and loose, it seems like it would compromise all layers on top of it.
Many 70s Bally have paint that just flakes off, even on NOS playfields.
We lock down with a layer of clear to preserve what we can.
It would of course be better if the paint was well adhered, then we could sand it so the clear would have more tooth; but sometimes you just have to play the hand you are dealt.
Quoted from pinster68:What happened to the Serve Again and 500k inserts? Can these be fixed, or do they need to be replaced?
(If it isn't obvious they are under Mylar)
It looks like the clear and the graphics are no longer adhered to the inserts and are being held in place only by the Mylar.
Short version - if that Mylar ever comes off, so do the graphics.
Quoted from Jtslade:So is everyone here using a Color Laser for printing those Color Decals on the clear waterslide paper?
If they are getting their decals printed at a hobby shop, they are probably being printed on an ALPS printer, because those can print white.
Quoted from La_Porta:At this point, it is nice enough that I don't want to pull everything and clear over the play field. I just want to make localized repair.
The 2PAC is thin like water, so you could try to level each insert without taking the game apart. Just make sure the playfield has been shimmed up dead level.
But I'll still suggest you strip the playfield and **do it right**. You will learn a lot, and FP is a great game to learn on.
Quoted from La_Porta:I'd love to...perhaps I can find a spare play field and use that as the basis of a restoration, so that I don't jeopardize what I already have. Specific to firepower: how would you suggest painting any of that insane, splatter-pattern planet?
I'd scan it.
Use the Pattern Clone tool in Photoshop to recreate the worn section.
Paint the entire planet white.
Put down a whole new pattern Waterslide Decal printed on a color laser printer. Cut the decal into 3 sections to make it easy to work with.
-
(if you tried to just patch the worn section, it would fade at a different rate and look like a patch).
Quoted from Troutfarm:What should I use to remove the residue?
After you get the Mylar off, pat down the residue glue with white baking flour. Really press it into the glue, and let it sit a few minutes.
Next, wet the flour with 91% or higher isopropyl alcohol, and allow it to sit until most of the alcohol has evaporated, but it's still slightly damp.
Starting at the edge rub all the glue into little crumbs with your thumb.
Quoted from Troutfarm:I am in CA and can't buy the good stuff..
Woodcraft in San Carlos should have it, the Orange County store does.
Woodcraft of San Carlos
40 El Camino Real
San Carlos, CA 94070
1-650-631- 9663
Quoted from tezting:Hi Vid,
What is the best way to frisket and paint if you have to paint a lot on a playfield?
Right now I am making frisket for one color then painting and then frisket the next color and so on.
But the problem is that I am afraid to damaging the new paint when doing another frisket and cutting etc.?
So is it more effective to frisket everything (all colors) before painting anything?
Just spray a thin layer of clear between colors.
It will protect the fresh paint from the blade.
Quoted from Troutfarm:Thanks for the tips! That worked pretty well, but I still have thin spots of sticky around. I am just rubbing away with goo off, but maybe there is a better way to take care of the minor stuff? Thanks!
Usually anything left that's sticky I just hit with the Naphtha.
Many different adhesives were used over the years, so you might have to experiment.
Quoted from ibis:I plan on using the JC661 clear but have heard that System11 play fields can NOT be cleared with this product due to the original sealant they applied at the factory
Where did you hear this?
Many thousands of Sys11 playfields have been repaired with it.
Quoted from ibis:Something about the inserts get foggy and lift up the art on them, some others have had a bad time with the entire PF on system11 games. Is this true??
How would a Sys7 insert be any different than a Sys11 insert? Same plastic for either one.
1. Glue your plastics back in.
2. Shoot a thin layer of JC661 to seal everything up.
3. Apply new art to inserts, touch up any playfield wear, bla, bla.....
4. Shoot top coat of JC661.
5. Buff to mirror finish.
6. Send pictures to whoever told you that JC661 would cloud your inserts.
Quoted from Troutfarm:My plan is to just put a few layers of wax on and let it be for now. Any suggestions on what to use for the most protection?
image_(resized).jpeg
Blitz or Chemical Guys 3X
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide
Quoted from sohchx:Hey Vid, have you ever seen this happen with Createx white before after being cleared with 2pac? None of the other colors have reacted like this.
I've never seen that "stucco ceiling" pattern.
It looks like it did it not lift like that around that post hole, so that may be a clue.
Was the original white sanded before the new Createx went down?
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Questions. 1. How to reglue that piece of mylar back down, can I reuse it? I did not cut it off.
Take a razor, cut it off, and stick a new patch over the missing section.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Is mylar refinishable? i.e., sanding, buffing, cleaning up etc?
You can buff it out. Don't let it get too warm or it will permanently haze.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Is there a method for clearing the playfield up to the mylar without covering the mylar with clear? Recommended?
Sorry, there is not.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:There is a line of missing paint across the playfield starting in the left outline (pics attached) that goes across the playfield. Is this a crack in the playfield?
It looks like a crack.
Or it could be some imperfection in the top ply of wood.
Quoted from sohchx:An initial lock down layer of clear was put down first, then it was sanded with 800. I then airbrushed that entire white area with the Createx white and heat cured it. The following day I laid down clear over it.
Interesting.
Was it a new bottle of white?
Did you add water or anything to thin it?
Quoted from hisokajp:My BTC Aron could use some love... there are pretty deep scratch in the plastic, not sure how to smooth these out?
Somebody really wanted that decal off!
Those scratches are all the way down to the metal, so no easy fix.
1. You can scan it, clean up the art and just get a magnetic decal printed for $19.99
http://www.stickersbanners.com/magnetic-signs.html
2. You could spray clear over the whole thing to fill in the scratches, sand flat, then mask off the printing, spray black, use auto pinstriping for the thin lines. Lots of work.
Quoted from Lermods:What's the best way to touch this up? Guys on the ww thread suggested painting the black back in, which I agree with, but what about the bare wood just below? Paint it to match the wood or just clear over it?
Seal the wood first, or the black will have a rough edge.
Paint the black back on.
Clear over wood and black.
Make sure you get the edge where it rolls over into the hole - if you don't it will chip again.
Quoted from EvanDickson:I think now that someone has put a layer of clearcoat on TOP of the original diamond coat clearcoat, or something like that.
Yeah, somebody tried some Home Depot clearcoating.
Quoted from EvanDickson:Is there a way to safely and easily remove junk clearcoat of varying thickness from on top of good diamond plate clearcoat?
Depends on what they used.
If it's Varathane, try leaving a paper towel square soaked in alcohol in an inconspicuous spot and see if it turns white and soft.
If it's oil based Polyurathane, you might be out of luck.
Quoted from EvanDickson:So alcohol will dissolve varathane, but not poly or diamond?
**sometimes** alcohol will turn those water based clears soft enough to scrape off.
Oil based poly can only be removed with chemicals that will also remove the playfield paint.
Quoted from EvanDickson:Was there mylar on these things? I wonder if there's a coating of glue on the whole PF or something.
There were patches of Mylar, but you can see the flakiness of some sort of non-glue coating on the Free Ride insert.
Quoted from EvanDickson:Soaking with alcohol (95%) does not turn it white, but it does seem to break it down and make it fairly easy to rub off.
Excellent, then it's some kind of water based something or other.
Take your time, it looks like a big job.
Quoted from Pinball_Lizard:Vid, Can I use 100% denatured alcohol instead of the 91% or higher isopropyl alcohol in all of the applications listed above when you used isopropyl?
Only if you know what they added to the alcohol to "denature" it. There are many different poisons that could have been added.
Iso is clean, cheap and less toxic, so I'd just stick with that.
Quoted from La_Porta:Vid: any experience with Liquitex or Spectratex paints? They are available locally for me.
Is the Liquitex thin enough to air brush without thinning?
I've got some of their paints, but they are thick and take a day to dry.
-
I've got a few bottles of Spectra-Tex, not too many opaque colors available from them at my DickBlick store, but the ones I have seem fine.
Quoted from Alan51:I am cleaning up my old 1963 Star Jet. I took off the pop bumpers and found that there is some sort of brown protective coating that has been laid down on the playfield presumably to protect it. Any idea what it is, and how to remove it without damaging the playfield paint?
Whatever it is, it did not come from the factory.
WICO used to sell rings of woodgrain "contact paper" to put around worn pop bumper areas, so that would be my guess. They are made of vinyl and peel off much easier than Mylar, with a plastic razor blade.
Factory Starjet:
WICO pop bumper protectors:
Quoted from Alan51:It came off really easily. It was something like woodgrain mac-tac. Very little or no paint came off, but there is a bit of paint damage that was pre-existing, and probably why it was put on in the first place.
IMG_0414_(resized).JPG
Looks pretty good.
You can put Mylar pop rings down now to protect the game.
Make sure you put a coat of wax down BEFORE the rings.
Quoted from La_Porta:I took pictures of the bottles. They say on them that they are all for airbrushing. Roughly the same price as what you recommended, but they are locally available.
Those look REALLY old.
Old, separated airbrush paint is not your friend. It will clog your gun; tripling the amount of work to clean the gun, strain the paint, stir up the clumps.....
I'd probably order a set from TCP or DickBlick - someplace that has a huge inventory turnover.
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:Has anyone done paint restore on a Getaway HSII pin? Trying to figure out what colors I need to buy to create the bright orange color (eg fine lines around most inserts) and the pale blue color (background color of the tachometer in center of table).
No one can tell you "what" paint color to buy, because your playfield may have faded more than theirs.
Get the Createx Opaque kit, get the Florescent kit, and mix up the proper colors.
Jacquard "Bright Orange" is pretty good start for some Williams games. It's the **missing color** from Createx's line.
Quoted from Mr_Tantrum:Thanks for the feedback. As a point of clarification, I was asking which combination of colors I needed in order to mix to the orange and blue I am needing. Not sure if certain base colors allow me to more easily hit the targets I am looking for. Also, was hoping to learn from anyone with my exact pin. Your forum is incredibly educational, and I am looking forward to giving your recommendations a try.
I'd get the sky blue, then add navy blue drops until you find your match.
Same with your orange, add drops until you get your match....
Quoted from Insane:Quick question, is there any "standard" as to how high you install the metal wireform lane guides back in the playfield.
The center of the ball should align with the rail of the wire frame.
There are a few exceptions, but that covers 98% of them.
Quoted from La_Porta:Vid, from a theoretical standpoint on pricing: say I sent you my Firepower play field, which has minimal wear, and all I wanted was new inserts with decals, leveled, and the play field cleared to seal in all of the original graphics, how much would something like that go for?
$700 give or take, depending on how bad the playfield was.
Quoted from TopMoose:I want to remove the top-mounted flipper screws, fill the holes with Bondo, sand it flat and install new flipper assemblies like you recommend, but what's the best way to remove the screws? I can't get them to move from the underside and there's no screwdriver slot on the top.
There are 2 "fins" that keep the screws from simply unscrewing, so even if there was a drive slot, they would not unscrew.
Gently tap them out from the backside with a hammer.
Quoted from TopMoose:Thanks! How about the pop bumper screws? if I take them out and fill the holes, I won't be able to mount the pop coil brackets in the same place - the new screws will go into the Bondo, rather than the wood. What do you suggest?
Don't fill the holes for the pop bumper screws, you need them to put the pop bumpers back in.
Quoted from TopMoose:So leave the screws in and clear over them?
Probably safer to remove them, and then install new ones after clearing.
You have to be really careful to leave them in and clear over them, it looks great, but not for everyone....
Quoted from La_Porta:3. Fill in divits and other areas with bonds and sand.
Yes, but only if the paint is worn off.
If it's just a dent, with paint intact, just fill the divot with 2PAC.
Quoted from La_Porta:4. Remove/repair inserts. .
Only remove inserts if you MUST. Make sure you have replacements IN HAND before removing any of them. Some inserts are simply not available anywhere, and if you break one removing it.......
Quoted from La_Porta:use 2PAC to fill the bowed ones. Sand to the level of the table.
You don't have to get too crazy sanding completely flush. When you spray your first clear, things tend to even out.
Quoted from WakiMiko:What can I do here to fix the clearcoat and/or to stop it from getting worse?
Try to clean up that crappy Sharpie marker with 94% alcohol.
Repaint white.
Mask off and repaint black keyline.
Scuff up surrounding wood for tooth and repair chip with 2PAC.
Quoted from tezting:Hi Vid,
I really need your help. I have matched my colors so they are spot on. Last day I reduced two of the colors with Createx performance reducer and painted.
But to my surprise both colors turned out more yellow then they should! I have tested with Naptha and I took a drop from the bottle that was reduced and the none reduced to test again after I painted and that still looked good.
What has happen when I painted with the airbrush? I am only using opaque colors..
I asked my airbrush dealer and he said it could not be the reducer and he had no explanation.
Let's see a picture, I'm not sure I understand what happened exactly from the description.
It looks like something got mixed into the paint, because you can see small bubbles like it outgassed somehow.
Try never to do spot repairs, because once you clear over them, or once they fade, they look like spot repairs.
Easy fix:
Sand the area with 600 grit.
Frisket off the ENTIRE field of color.
Repaint the entire area all at once.
Re-clear.
Quoted from tezting:Sorry vid I apparently suck at explaining and I will try to explain once again.
So the grey color under the two samples is painted and cleared. The two samples on top is just some quick drops I made with a brush with the exact same paint and added naphtha over it to compare and show how the color should look. I will wipe them off and paint everything again as soon as the mystery is solved.
Does it make any sense now?
Yes, that makes sense.
So the two drops are the same paint that you painted under the clear? Same batch?
Quoted from VacFink:I'm retheming a well worn playfield with a vinyl overlay, as long as the inserts aren't cupped, is it best to leave them in while sanding off the original silk screen?
I try to leave them in place so there is minimal risk of cracking them.
Old inserts are thin and brittle.
Even if they are cupped, it might be best to leave them if they are solidly glued in.
Quoted from La_Porta:Vid, what about all the "nastiness" that sometimes creeps in between the inserts and the play field? Theres usually white gunk which I assume is glue + old wax of some sort, but it leaves an unsightly white ring. Most of the Firepower decals will have a black outline which would hide this, but is there anything else to be done about that crud?
Yeah, it's old wax.
I use a soft toothbrush and some Naphtha to scrub it out.
Then I repaint the black and level out the crevice with clear.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:I'm clearing EBD with the drop targets in place.
Take the 4 screws out of the bottom of the drop mechs, and pull them back.
Then use some blue tape on the bottom of the playfield.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Are there setbacks to printing other colors and/or large areas on water slides and using them?
It takes a color laser printer that you can calibrate the color on.
Ink jets fade too fast.
Frisket and airbrush is probably faster, but it depends on many factors.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Putting wiring harness back down, what is a good staple gun for the GI sockets? Those hard to get to spots are TIGHT for my staple gun... suggestions?
ebay.com link: Unicatch USC71 16L US2238AL Long Nose Upholstery Stapler 22 Gauge 3 8 Crown
Quoted from mack505:Would you ever spot clear with an air brush? And if so, would you thin the clear, and if so, with what would you thin it?
Yes, there will be times when you would spot-clear with an airbrush (like fixing someone's melted decal fnckup).
The 2PAC clear comes "ready to spray" right out of the can, so no thinning necessary.
Quoted from scampcamp:What's a good way to clean the black dust that's under the playfield? It's on the coils, wires & wood? Thanks
Take the playfield OUTSIDE and spray it with your air compressor.
Do not blow all that lead dust into your garage or basement! Do not blow all that lead dust into your garden!
Grab any loose inserts ahead of time, or they will go flying into the grass.
If you are going to be restoring the playfield, then put the whole harness in the dishwasher and run the pots and pan cycle.
Coils and everything (just no relays or the like).
You can loosely zip tie and cut the original ties if you need the deepest cleaning.
Be sure you clean out the little trap at the bottom of the washer afterwards. If your wife finds a few little screws in there, she will know something is up.....
Quoted from MiamiRedSkin:I just brought home this WMS Indiana Jones and it has some marks near both slings. Not sure what you would classify them as - but Novus 1/2/3 really didn't do any work on them.
Pretty normal "ball swirl" marks there.
Usually there is a piece of Mylar in front of each sling that keeps that from happening; but someone must have removed the protection from your game before you took ownership.
You probably won't be able to remove the cracks completely, so don't expect 100%.
Try a Magic Eraser with Iso alcohol. Scrub a little circle. If you don't see instant improvement - stop.
Wax the playfield, put in fresh balls 2x a year, and install some new Mylar protectors:
I buy the 50 or 100 sheet packs of 9x11" sandpaper, generally the Norton brand, but 3M is great too.
So with the sanding block on my wet/dry air sander, I can get 3 strips from a single sheet.
On my electric palm sander, I get 4 pads from a single sheet.
On my hand block (it's a drywall sander block), I can get 2 strips from a sheet - with a strip left over for detail work.
=
I usually avoid any sanders that require me to buy special hook-n-loop sandpaper, odd shape "brand locked" sandpaper, peel and stick sandpaper, or other oddities that I won't be able to find at midnight on a Sunday.
Quoted from westofrome:Does anyone have experience or opinion on using sanding sponges for precision sanding jobs, such as a epoxy-and-bondo filled hole where you want to sand down without risking surrounding paint? Would a sponge give you more flexibility to target a particular spot while providing more consistency than using a finger w/ sandpaper?
Sanding sponges are more for odd shaped pieces, because the soft sponge allows it to conform to the shape.
Playfields are generally flat, except the shooterlane.
Except for sanding the lip around a saucer, I don't do too much finger sanding. Like a sponge, your finger will follow irregular curves rather than flattening/feathering the work.
Mask off areas you don't want sanded with Blue Painter's Tape.
Small scraps of wood padded with an old rag, make for good detail sanding pads.
Quoted from No_Skill:So, right now I have no plans on removing the playfield and clearing the entire thing because the game works perfectly and plays great. Do I attempt some restoration so the areas don't get any worse, or do I just leave them alone?
That's called "insert wear".
You can scrub the wax out of the cracks with a soft toothbrush and Naphtha.
Then use a detail brush and opaque black paint to fill the cracks (leave the lamps in test mode so you can see any cracks you missed).
Top off the black painted cracks with some 2PAC to protect it.
Quoted from westofrome:You're saying spot clearing with 2PAC? Seems there's always a chorus against spot clearing.
You can fill a crack with 2PAC.
You can't really "spot clear" with 2PAC because the edge is weak and will lift after time.
But in a crack the edge is better protected, and bonds well to the jagged edge.
Quoted from westofrome:With 2PAC you're looking at masking, booth, respirator, airbrush?
I just use a syringe to gently dispense it into a crack, very controlled, no airborne mist.
Quoted from No_Skill:That was pretty much what I thought I needed to do. I've already purchased the Createx opaque black and my plan was to get a can of the Spraymax 2K and spray it into a glass container then use a dropper and maybe a pin to fill the cracks. I wasn't sure how it would turn out since pretty much everyone in this thread puts an entire layer of clear over the top of these spot fixes.
You might just get a quart of 2PAC from the local auto store.
The whole can of 2K will be hard in a few days, for the few drops you are going to use.
The 2PAC will be good for years as long as you don't get any activator into the clear can.
Quoted from No_Skill:Do I sand and polish the repairs after they cure? My main concern is how the edges will look compared to the stock playfield surface.
The edges are going to be way more shiny than your playfield.
But as you play, it will dull down.
If you are skilled, you might be able to sand it flat, but I'd probably just leave it.
Do an insert way in the back first. Don't do your learning front and center.
WHY WE NEVER USE POLY TO 'CLEARCOAT' A PLAYFIELD
===============================================
A while ago I made up 1000000000 SBM center horseshoes because they are ruined on every SBM I've ever seen. (how to do it yourself: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/making-new-ball-guides-from-scratch-vids-guide ).
Along the way, apparently I lost a bunch of people's emails, because I still have people mad at me because I never took their order, lol.
One gent who lives by the airport said if I could bring him his guide, he'd not only drive me to the airport and let me leave my car in his garage, but also buy me dinner! This sounded like a deal to me.
After years of searching, he finally found a SBM. He had a playfield that he restored years back hung up on the ceiling of his gameroom, so all he needed was his horseshoe and he was ready to restore the game.
Bob: Hey Vid, I restored this playfield about 6 or so years ago, awaiting the day I could find a SBM.
Vid: Nice work.
B: Yeah, but the whole thing turned amber!
V: Old playfields can change color.
B: No, I painted it white during the restoration. That's not 40 year old paint!
V: Hmmmm
B: Do you think that the heat gathered on the ceiling? It gets pretty hot when all the games are on.
V: Games get way hotter inside the cab that the ceiling ever would. Smoke?
B: Never.
V: You cleared it with....?
B: Spray-can poly.
V: Yeah that explains it, that stuff always turns yellow sooner or latter.
B: On RGP that's what everyone said to use.
V: Well, see if you can get a refund from RGP.
B: Can you remove this if I pay you?
V: I've never been able to get that stuff off, without removing the underlying paint too.
B: Is it going to get darker.
V: Yeah, I'm sure it will.
Here is his playfield, fresh from the ceiling:
That's a pretty dull red, so a calibrated laser can probably do it nicely.
If not, go to your local mom and pop hobby shop and have them print the decal with their printer than can do white and apply it over your red base coat.
Quoted from sulakd:Vid, is clear always required over createx? For instance, if I touch up an old em game, will the createx just wear through if not clear coated? And I guess that would mean clearing the whole playfield for uniform luster?
Createx will wear off quickly.
Just like on a car, it's almost impossible to spot clear. The edge is weak and will start to chip.
You can **sometimes** fill a crack or hole with clear, if the edge is sharp enough to give some tooth. It won't be perfect, even if you are pretty good.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Once the edge pieces of wood are removed from the perimeter of the playfield, the playfield no longer wants to sit flat in a rotisserie. The middle sags. I'm assuming it's CRITICAL for the playfield to lay flat while the clear cures?
Just screw some rails to the back of the playfield. Don't use screws that go all the way through to the face of the playfield.
For instance, drywall screws have fat enough thread to catch in normal #6 size holes.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:How long to leave the playfield perfectly flat to ensure the clear is dry/cured enough?
Every brand of clear is different, but it's usually pretty hard in a few days.
Quoted from tonybelgium:i am doing a restoration of a apollo 13 , that i found in a stable with cows ,...
after i removed the mylar , who was beyond restoration and already partially removed
there are some insert decals that will need replacement , i would made them with waterslide decals
but do i first clear it lightly and then put the new decals ? some help and advice would be welcome
It's in better shape than most A13 playfields.
Clean the whole playfield, lightly sand, apply a thin layer of clear, start applying decals and touching up paint.
Quoted from westofrome:Vid, there's a school of thought that painting over clear creates a layered "3-D effect". Is this why you recommend a thin layer? Is the 3-D effect a real problem?
Yes, it can be a real problem if you paint over thick clear.
You only want a super thin layer to lock down the existing paint.
Don't do what this well known "restoration" shop did:
Quoted from tezting:Is it "normal" to paint x-colors, then lock with clear and repeat 2-3 times? Or should you only clear once and then paint all colors?
Depending on how extensive the repairs are, you could certainly have 2-3 thin layers of clear over the course of the restoration.
Quoted from tonybelgium:here are some better pictures
repair with epoxy?
Plug the hole 1/2 way with tissue paper, and fill hole and surrounding area with epoxy resin.
Pull tissue paper out from the backside and re-drill the hole.
Quoted from jwilson:Here's one for you. I've been hitting this with alcohol and MF but no matter what I do, I can't get the swirls out. If I press any harder or go longer I just wipe out the ink. Is there something else I can do or do I just have to live with it?
If the paint itself is cracked (like it was stored in a garage or something), then all the scrubbing in the world will not be able to clean the cracks off of it.
Quoted from UvulaBob:I have what I think are some decals ordered from DecalPaper.com about a year ago. I remember you cautioned against using "old stock". Is a year too old? Do I need to throw these out?
Also, they caution against using them in a laser printer that's been powered on for too long. They suggest I use them only immediately after the printer has been turned on. Do you have any experience with decals from DecalPaper.com melting onto the fuser? That sure would suck.
Keep them in a zip lock bag to keep them fresh.
Never put any decals in a hot printer.
Try to print everything within a few minutes of turning on the printer.
Quoted from pinballinreno:Vid,
I have a question about 20 year old NOS playfields.
I know they should be cleared properly and sealed on the back.
Should the inserts be preemptively glued, like a small fillet of epoxy, to avoid loosening of the 20 year old glue?
Some inserts will probably be loose already.
Gluing them all is not a bad idea.
Quoted from UvulaBob:But do you have any insight into why nobody uses Speedball Acrylic ink on playfields?
There could be 50 reasons.
How fast does it fade?
How opaque is it?
Can it be ordered in Pantone colors? Does the company offer Pantone mix ratios online?
How long until it's dry? Does it need heat or UV to set?
Quoted from UvulaBob:I'm less concerned about aesthetics and more about unforseen reactions with clearcoat and the like.
Make a test panel and see what happens in a few months.
I don't know anybody that has ever used Speedball ink on a playfield.
Quoted from jibmums:Both pf's have kickout holes that are getting a little beat-up around the edges. I have to do any work indoors, so spray clear is unfortunately out of the question for now; what's the best brushable alternative, preferably something I could find locally? It won't be covering anything white-colored, just black, golden-yellow, and the bare wood. Thanks!
Let's see some pics
Quoted from UvulaBob:If I'm going to go with Nazdar ink, what type? Is the multipurpose UV good enough, or do I need a specific ink line?
Need more information.
Let's see the area to be screened.
Let's see your screens and fabric.
Quoted from jibmums:Here you go. Neither are all that bad right now; I did some touchup to Simps a year ago, and ES needs a little touchup on the black ring. I'd like to keep them from getting any more chewed-up looking in the future but spray clear or 2pac is just not possible for now.
No matter how much you sand, you won't get all that black coil dust out of the wood fibers.
You should sand away any stray fibers.
Then paint the wood back to a wood color.
You can mix up a small amount of 2PAC and brush it on since you don't need a glass smooth finish.
Quoted from kilatepin:1 Are these the right steps considering I can't clear coat the playfield at home and must take it to a garage?
Seems like you have a very good grasp of the concepts!
Quoted from kilatepin:2 Do I need to apply a white color base on the scratches before paint them with their color?
You might for lighter colors, darker colors often cover fine.
Just make sure that if the scratches are down to raw wood, you seal the scratch with primer before painting. Otherwise the wood will just keep adsorbing the paint.
Some scratches will just fill in fine with only clearcoat. Moisten the area with Naphtha and see if the scratch becomes invisible.
Quoted from kilatepin:3 Don't know what is the best procedure to fix whatever happened to shield inserts, don't know if that raised thing is clear coat.
Post a really good, close-up picture.
Quoted from kilatepin:Thank you Vid, and greetings from Spain.
Greetings from the warm heart of Yemen.
Quoted from AMBoggs:Couldn't you place it in sunlight also?
Depends on what wavelength/strength of UV it needs.
Sunlight won't erase an EPROM (I've tried an entire day in full sunlight and it still passes the checksum), but it will cure certain brands of UV cure clearcoat.
Quoted from kilatepin:Should I remove it completely?
I'd score it along the edge of the insert with a Xacto knife, then scrape it off with a vertically held chisel.
Quoted from kilatepin:And after that, should I sand the insert before clear coat the playfield again?
Thank you for your advice.
As long as it's a rough surface, the clear can stick to it.
You could sand with 400grit if you need to.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:How long to let cure? (2PAC)
Hard to say exactly.
Different brands, temp, humidity, thickness and how accurately you measured your catalyst.
If it stops stinking, and your fingernail can't make a dent, you are probably good.
Most brands take a few months to reach max hardness.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Probably not the correct thread to post this, but in reassembly I'm fighting how to remove and reinstall the metal from this plastic to a new plastic. Is there a tool for this? Bally, EBD.
Stick your soldering iron into the hole, spin the bell, pull loose.
Quoted from UvulaBob:I'm about ready to re-paint the road on my Taxi playfield. I'm assuming the gray they use can be had by mixing some white, some black, and some... other color(s). Any suggestions on what color ratio I should start with?
White + Black and a tiny amount of yellow or purple often nails a Williams game.
Quoted from urbanledge:1.After I sand the inserts (as per the guide)they are not clear anymore?I'm guessing they'll go clear when the clear coat goes on?
They will return to clear once clearcoated.
Quoted from urbanledge:2.Did you cover clear coating a small area/single new insert?
It's really hard to do a spot clearing.
Just like on an auto, spot clearing leaves a weak edge that often lifts up over time.
Quoted from urbanledge:3.What should I use to Clean/prep the area around the shield inserts for clear coating?
Gently sand the surrounding area to give the clear some tooth with maybe 800grit. Clean with Naphtha. Spray your clear.
=
You can also clearcoat the insert. Then reinstall it after the clear dries.
If your not going to clearcoat the whole playfield, this may be the least risky route.
Quoted from urbanledge:Thank you so much,
I am not planning on clearing the whole thing.
If I clear the insert and then install back in.
Would I not need to clear the new keyline decals?
here is a pic of the damage
Sand flat, spray clear, apply decal with keyline, spray clear topcoat.
Quoted from UvulaBob:Some of my plan involves putting white paint or ink on top of the grey road paint after it's set. Is that a bad idea? Should I put a thin layer of clear on top of that grey road paint before putting anything on top of it?
Often it's good to seal lighter colors under a thin layer of clear before doing other colors - especially if there will be frisket work and worry about lifting paint.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Getting ready to remove the temp rails under the playfield, and put the real ones on top.
Any issues with the playfield bending in the process and cracking the clear? Or does the clear keep the playfield flat?
Will clamp and screw the rails on top so eventually the playfield will "bend" (hopefully perfectly straight) to the new position.
I'm probably over thinking as it's damn flat the way it is.
Thoughts?
Sometimes the clear makes the playfield cup upwards, sometimes it twists.
Wood is a wondrous thing.
Most of the time, nothing happens at all, so put your rails on and enjoy your game.
Quoted from zacaj:is there anything I can do with these? The only things I can think of are either cutting out those areas and living with the slight bump, or attempting to scrape out and clean the dirt somehow, then heat the mylar and maybe stick a bit of clear glue under it...
Cut out the bad sections carefully with an Xacto knife, clean up any filth and old adhesive, and just patch with a new piece of Mylar.
You can keep trimming the new Mylar with the backing still on, until you make the perfect puzzle piece.
(Good pics, BTW)
Quoted from zacaj:Thanks, anything to fix the kickout hole (looks like they might have been nibbling the edge, unless that's just wear). Just Bondo?
Those dirty rats certainly were eating it.
Use wood epoxy, Bondo might be too soft in a high wear area like that.
Quoted from zacaj:had a piece of paint come up, there's about a 2 inch section with a different texture. In the future I'll feel each area before cleaning it (I was just using a bit of Novus#2 to get the dirt off after vacuuming it and then wiping with a dry cloth), but is there anything you'd recommend for cleaning any other areas as best I can?
Novus2 might be too harsh of an abrasive.
Many old Bally have flaky fragile paint.
Wipe carefully with Naphtha, and don't try to clean too much.
Quoted from UvulaBob:Is screening opaque white Nazdar 550 ink on top of heat-set Createx airbrush paint a good idea or a bad one? I don't think I ever got the official Vid answer, and I'm at the point where I need to figure out if I need to mask over the existing letters or not before putting grey down. If I don't mask over the letters and cover them up with grey, then after the grey is heat-set, I'll screen ink on top of the grey.
I suppose I could lay down a thin layer of clear to lock the grey in before screening. Vid, what say you?
I've never tried it.
Try a test panel and make sure everyone gets along before doing anything drastic.
Quoted from UvulaBob:It dries up so fast that it effectively destroys the StencilPro screens I use.
Use the 9050 Retarder to make the ink dry slower (that number may have changed from the last time I used it, so check my facts).
Quoted from zacaj:I've run into problems where, no matter how carefully I cut, I'm still occasionally cutting into the wood with the exacto knife and leaving annoying white lines (much worse than the very occasional lifted paint). Is there anything I can do to make the cutting safer?
I usually just score it, not actually cut all the way through.
BRAND NEW XACTO BLADE, for sure.
Quoted from zacaj:Finally, I ordered a sheet of mylar from the pinball resource, and just fit and attached my first piece (after waxing the area), only to realize that it's probably 3-4 times thinner than the existing mylar. Do you know of any place to buy thicker mylar?
Non-bigbox art/drafting stores have it. Marcos has it. I'm sure there are many other places.
Pinball machines have had many owners, so there is no telling what thickness Mylar someone installed.......
Quoted from UvulaBob:I also have a Harbor Freight single-action siphon-feed airbrush. You press the button, and it's on. Let the button go, and it's off. No fading or anything. Would this be a better airbrush to use for laying down large swaths of color?
Iwata is a great brush, but yours may be needing some new seals, or a serious cleaning.
If you are just doing sold colors without any fading effects, you will love the easy to clean, no clog $8 HF:
http://www.harborfreight.com/quick-change-airbrush-kit-93506.html
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:Drilling the wire form ball guide holes.
I understand using the brad bit for holes hidden under posts etc, but how do you get a good clean look AND protect the surrounding clear for wire form ball guides? The brad bit takes a lot of extra material with it, and therefore not a clean enough cut.
Thanks for any advice.
You just have to use the right size bit.
If you use too large of a bit, you will make an obvious hole.
You also need to make sure the bit is SHARP. Dull bits will make ragged holes.
-
Cut out the clear with your brad bit, then drill out the wire hole to the proper size with a conventional bit.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:What type of "fading effects" can you do with certain guns?
A "dual action" gun lets you vary the paint and air pressure.
You can fade one color into another, or overlay a transparent color over another.
Quoted from Manimal:Vid, As you can see, the shooter lane on this Getaway is pretty dirty, and a bit of the grain has lifted, making it pretty rough. The rest of the playfield is in great shape, but I need to address this area. If I sand using the dowel or pipe, can I re-clear using the SprayMax 2K? Or will that hold up for this purpose? I am going to try and get of the dirt out, but I am betting a lot of it is too deep.
Thanks
You can try sanding, but I think that dirt has gone too deep. You would sand off too much wood before you got to clean fibers.
Paint it, and then clear over it.
Because the shooter lane is not sanded dead flat, you could even put 2PAC on with a small brush, if you don't want to waste a whole can of Spraymax.
Quoted from Iizi:I had a case where a few inserts on Champions Pub were damaged while removing mylar. It looked really good when I filled them with 2pac, I put a clamp and next morning results wasnt as good as I expected. I tried adding some clear with very little success. How would you fix this and can it be done without stripping and clearing whole playfield?
It's hard to tell what happened from that dark picture.
Am I seeing air bubbles??
Need better pics
Quoted from desertT1:Do I have any options for getting the wood a single shade before the clearing/overlay/clearing happens?
You could stain it.
Start with the LIGHTEST SHADE, and build upon it until you get an even looking field.
You can even put it in an airbrush.
Quoted from UvulaBob:In spraying all the grey for my Taxi's road, I realized that I'd masked an area of the road I didn't mean to. Now that it's dried, there's a hard line where the masking was. I've tried various methods of smoothing out the straight line between the old coat and the new, but it still shows up.
Do you have any handy tips or tricks for something like this, or I do just need to decide between living with it and re-doing the whole top half of the playfield (since there aren't any hard borders I can run up against)?
The hard line is in the PAINT or in the CLEAR?
Quoted from UvulaBob:Vid, I think I may have done something wrong a year or so ago when I last sanded this thing after putting a thin layer of clear. Maybe I didn't sand enough of it off, or maybe I sanded too much. In any case, some of the blue Oramask I used during the spray looks like it's pulled some of that old clear coat up. It's not that big a deal - I can do some sanding in the areas that will be visible where the clear has flaked off, with the thought that the new layers of clear will spray fine on top of it. But I'm worried that the paint I've laid down might be sitting on unstable clear coat.
It looks like it needed a better sanding job to give the clear some tooth.
I'd probably take a fresh Xacto and cut out the flaky stuff.
It's going to be a lot of boring work, so sit down and get comfortable.
Once the flakes are gone, sand the paint below with 600 to give tooth and slightly feather.
Quoted from brenna98:I'm wondering what this could be and how to fix it.
The clear just in front of these targets seems to be cracking underneath the top coat of clear.
The top still feels very smooth. Any suggestions?
Who did that clearcoat?
Quoted from UvulaBob:Here's a better picture of what's going on. I ran some 400 grit sandpaper over the spots where it looks like the Oramask pulled up some clear coat. I'm not sure if this is my clearcoat from last year, or the factory's clear coat (assuming they did one).
That is not factory clearcoat because it's a sys11 (before Diamondplate).
Quoted from UvulaBob:If it's my layer of clear that's not fully adhered, you're saying that I need to pick my way through anywhere it's flaking, and keep picking until it stops coming up? What about areas that don't look like they're flaking? Should I assume they're OK?
Yes, cut/sand back until you reach solid material.
Sand your slots and holes before you clearcoat, to give extra tooth to the clear.
Slots and holes can retain wax or silicones to give you further headaches.
Quoted from Manimal:Appreciate the advice, I never considered painting the lane. I am assuming the createx colors would work? I have a very nice red I bought for another project, which woukd also look good here.
Quoted from brenna98:I was thinking the only way would be to sand down to the defect, eye dropper in more clear, sand, buff, then mylar.
It looks like the clear is not adhering well in that spot. Maybe years of silicone had soaked into the bare wood in that high wear area.
Sanding back, or drilling tiny holes with an Xacto and filling might be the only solution.
I'd make sure there are foam backers behind those targets to absorb as much energy as possible.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/replacing-stand-up-target-faces-vids-guide
Quoted from UvulaBob:Would it be this easy to pick off if I had done a better job of clearing it in the first place?
You would not be able to pick off any pieces, if the clear was chemically or physically bonded to the playfield.
Quoted from UvulaBob:I guess what I'm wondering is: how much work am I going to have to put in before this thing is ready for me to airbrush on again?
Impossible to say.
Quoted from UvulaBob:If I put these two together, it sounds like I need to go over the whole playfield with an X-Acto knife, picking away at the loosely-bonded clear until it's all gone.
Any clear that is not bonded to the playfield might well come back and bite you in the ass.
There is no easy fix that I know of.
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:The first time I tried frisket (on a cabinet) it pulled off a whole layer on me. Try sticking frisket down over and over and let it do the work. In my case it worked great, completely removed the offending layer.
On playfields with flaky paint, I'll usually shoot a layer of clear just to hold everything together before I start frisketing.
Quoted from UvulaBob:The end result is that I have a playfield with some high and low spots all throughout the lower third. I'm doing what I can to make sure the transitions between these spots is as smooth as possible, because I certainly don't think sanding all of the clear off the playfield is the best approach.
Feather off the edges a bit, so you don't have any hard lines, and don't worry too much about it.
The final coats of clear will level everything out.
Quoted from Iizi:I think I'll have to scrape clear off, apply new graphics, fix the yellow surrounding and clear whole playfield.
Just because you have nothing to lose, try **surgically** cutting around the insert text, and the black keyline around the insert with an Xacto blade, and leaving the text behind.
Quoted from dr_nybble:Hi Vid, I am working on a 1954 Williams Spitfire! At some point it seems like someone sprayed a solvent on the playfield that partly dissolved the lacquer topcoat. It is all bumpy/splotchy and I think it has to be removed (there is also a massive amount of grunge embedded in it). It looks normal under the apron but bad on the playfield itself. Otherwise this playfield is in nice shape.
Is 90% isopropyl alcohol + cloth a safe way to remove it without affecting the underlying artwork?
Assuming I get the topcoat removed, are the next steps:
- level inserts
- lightly sand 600 grit
- naphtha
- clear coat (SprayMax 2K for me)
Let's see some CLEAR pictures of what you have.
Quoted from UvulaBob:Vid, what's the best way to clean the glass Pyrex measuring cup I use for mixing my clear? I gave it a good scrub down with some lacquer thinner and a rough sponge, and rinsed it heavily with water. Is that good enough, or is there a chance some lacquer thinner could be left over to contaminate my next mix?
Lacquer Thinner works great.
Quoted from woz:I was thinking that it maybe it would be best to paint a block of yellow where the letters are missing and then just have a black decal over top that acts as a mask. What do you think?
That's what I would do.
"hot" colors like bright yellow or bright orange are very difficult to print.
Quoted from jimy_speedt:Hi, On a whirlwind, the edges of the playfield hole surrounding the spinning disks are worn out up to the wood. After removal of the disk, how can I fill the gap and get a perfect flat circular surface ? thank you
There is normally a gap around the discs on spinning games, so I would not fill the gap.
Repair/repaint the playfield normally, and then make sure the discs are remounted flush with the playfield.
Quoted from MarcelG:Yes it would help but that bank has a plate above with a bit of an overhang which snubs the ball a bit, digs it into the wood at the same time.
Yeah, that's a problem spot in every one of those games I've ever restored.
Maybe foam behind the stand up targets and then thin foam under the metal plate (like double sided tape).
Quoted from Mikala:. So the question is shellac or polyurethane? If shellac, amber or clear? Thank you for your great thread.
Your goal is to match up the color so the newly sanded wood does not look out of place with the other unpainted parts of the playfield.
Shellac allows you to build up layers and alter the color.
Poly only has that one yellowish color.
Quoted from Mikala:I have no plans on clear coating this playfield, as I prefer my EM's PF natural.
If you did want to clear, remember you don't have to have a mirror finish.
As you polish out, you can stop at any time and still have a hard wearing surface, without the gloss.
Quoted from TopMoose:The bottom of this "I" insert came unseated and the clearcoat over it is cracked. I've re-glued the insert, so it's now solid, but what needs to be done about the clearcoat? It doesn't look too bad, so I hope I can just put a Mylar patch over it, but I'm afraid you'll tell me that I need to rough it up, drop some clearcoat, sand it flat, polish, buff and wax. I'm concerned that it will look worse than when I started.
You can just Mylar it.
But I'd cut out that section of clear that is no longer stuck to the insert, sand the surrounding area, touch up the black keyline where it cracked, drip some clear into the area, and sand it flat, and buff it out - if I were you.....
Createx does not make regular Orange paint right now, otherwise you could just add some of that to the Red and try.
I see that Jacquard also stopped making Orange, so it probably had something anti-EU in the mix...
Take the playfield up to the local hardware store and have them match it on the computer and get a quart of the highest quality paint (probably ~$13).
Quoted from Plumonium:As discussed, here are the pictures of my Fish Tales playfield. Some planking. Is this fixable so I can touch up and then clear? I noticed the image is not solid color but rather dotted on the blue and orange part, I fear it can't be touched up. Is this playfield always going to be a player's condition? Should I look into a new CPR then if wanted better? If it's salvageable, what should be the process?
Looks like someone stored that game in a garage at some point.
Yes, that is totally restorable.
But, there will be an extra step of printing the dots.
The process will be:
1. Completely strip the playfield.
2. Scan the playfield with a HP4670 scanner
3. Lightly sand playfield.
4. Shoot thin layer of clear.
5. Repaint solid areas.
6. Apply decals of dots and text.
7. Clearcoat playfield
8. Buff out and drool.
Quoted from Plumonium:Isn't the blue and orange area a gradient pattern?
Yes.
Here is how to make the decals of the half-tone dots:
Quoted from Plumonium:So in these images, the solid color would be light blue and the dark blue would be ALL half-tone dots decals?
You got it!
Quoted from Plumonium:Sounds tricky
Once you actually do it, you will become a restoration master.
A few years ago, every post about playfield restoration said "No one can repair dots, not even ***** ".
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