Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

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#2851 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from jibmums:
Let's say I don't try for a deep clean to remove the ball swirl dirt, and just remove the grunge caked onto the playfield instead. How much harm is Naphtha and then Novus 2 going to cause?

Naphtha will remove the old wax, but not cause any harm.

Novus2 will sand off some of the topcoat, so be very careful.

-

You will most likely be disappointed in any **polishing** of those old playfields.

Even when I have a NOS one come into the shop, that old lacquer topcoat is just too thin to really put a nice shine on. I've shined them up with a buffer, but it really makes all the graining stand out (some would say it looks worse).

I will gently suggest you clean with Naphtha, wax with a good paste wax and enjoy your games....

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#2852 8 years ago

DEN

jibmums

Pinside member

12y 96,900 3,964 16

Yeah, that's about all I was looking to do was just clean & play them. I've already done the bit with going thru the topcoat and removing a little ink with iso and want to avoid that again. I did hit up a DE Simpsons with Treasure Cove a year ago and the non-mylared areas came out spectacular afterwards.

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#2853 8 years ago

KWF

Fytr

Pinside member

11y 101K 3,412 8

Hi Vid,

Thanks for the excellent tips!

I have an IJ playfield that has some ball swirls and trails that I power polished and magic-erasured to try to get rid of - just like you said to... you know, until it started to remove the paint!

Anyway, major crisis was averted due to careful watching for that scenario based on your tips. Now I'm having the playfield clearcoated to restore it and protect it since I basically removed whatever remaining clearcoat was on it with my aggressive polishing.

The first coats of CC have been applied and it's actually in pretty nice condition, but I have a few inserts that could use re-keylining of the black (pic attached), and I was unable to remove all of the ball trails around the top end and next to the flippers.

Is it okay to just re-keyline those inserts that need it, or would all the inserts need to be done (possible future fading issue? even with black?)?

Given the ball trail marks remaining (pic below), would it be crazy to just apply a small dabble of color-matched paint to hide it, or would basically the entire region of the playfield need to be repainted?

What would you recommend I do here, given that most of the inserts are actually pretty good?

IMG_3782_copy_(resized).jpg

IMG_3776_(resized).jpg

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#2854 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from Fytr:
Is it okay to just re-keyline those inserts that need it, or would all the inserts need to be done (possible future fading issue? even with black?)?

You can certainly just touch up the insert wear on the ones that need it.

Quoted from Fytr:
Given the ball trail marks remaining (pic below), would it be crazy to just apply a small dabble of color-matched paint to hide it, or would basically the entire region of the playfield need to be repainted?

You can't do "spot" color repair. It will fade at a different rate and will stick out like a sore thumb.

Frisket off the playfield, and repaint the entire area.

(although I would first try and see if a Magic Eraser and 94% alcohol will lift those black marks out. )

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#2855 8 years ago

CIP

tonycip

T&T mods

11y 81,550 1,468 17

Hi vid . I often find machines with nice looking play field but a few of the inserts are raised.
What's the best way to deal with that .I know it's in here somewhere. .

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#2856 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from tonycip:
Hi vid . I often find machines with nice looking play field but a few of the inserts are raised.
What's the best way to deal with that .I know it's in here somewhere. .

Pics on page one.

Warm the inserts with a hair dryer, press them flat with a large C-clamp and a flat piece of wood.

Epoxy them from behind to keep them from popping up again.

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#2857 8 years ago

RED

Redketchup

Pinside member

Laval, QC

12y 73,050 1,018 10 13

Quoted from TopMoose:
I'm debating if I want to take on this machine as a restoration project. Bally's original top coat is flaking off the inserts - how does one fix something like this? Would the old stuff need to come off or can it just be cleared over and sanded level?
Screen_Shot_2016-02-04_at_2.36.02_PM_(resized).png

I would say remove the old insert, sand and reglue... normally they come off really easy

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#2858 8 years ago

RIF

BorgDog

Pinside+ Frequent

Spokane, WA

8y 88,800 1,742 26 9

I have a few raised inserts as well, so vid when you say "Epoxy them from behind.." is that after you've pressed it down with the clamp and you just put some epoxy around the rim of the insert adjoining the hole? or add epoxy then press down? or ??

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#2859 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

If you heat up an insert and then press it down, sometimes it pops back up again a few months latter.

So by adding some glue too, you ensure that it stays put.

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#2860 8 years ago

RIF

BorgDog

Pinside+ Frequent

Spokane, WA

8y 88,800 1,742 26 9

I understand that part, just wondering the exact timing and placement of the epoxy.

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#2861 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

If the insert is loose enough to push out without damaging anything, then you can rough up the sides of the insert and goop a bunch of epoxy into the hole in the playfield.

If the insert is pretty solid, then glue the insert from the backside once it cools down.

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1

#2862 8 years ago

RIF

BorgDog

Pinside+ Frequent

Spokane, WA

8y 88,800 1,742 26 9

OK, thanks vid, I'll give it a shot.

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#2863 8 years ago

JON

bronco-jon

Inactive member

8y 50,900 596 22

Hi Vid, Could you hook me up with someone you might know who could make this sticker for me? 8" height by whatever width looks right with the height.

Thanks, Jon

MousinAround-Wheel-JR_(resized).png

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#2864 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Flashinstinct is the sticker guy around here

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1

#2865 8 years ago

JON

bronco-jon

Inactive member

8y 50,900 596 22

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Flashinstinct is the sticker guy around here

I don't know why I didn't think about him, I got a labels sticker kit from him and they look great. wasn't thinking about him doing other stuff too. Thanks, I'll pm him

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#2866 8 years ago

DAD

uncivil_engineer

Pinside member

9y 91,550 2,012

Any tips for removing really heavy Mylar glue? I took the Mylar off a SF2, and all the glue stayed on the playfield?

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#2867 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from uncivil_engineer:
Any tips for removing really heavy Mylar glue? I took the Mylar off a SF2, and all the glue stayed on the playfield?

Pg 1:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration#post-547712

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2

#2868 8 years ago

DKP

tezting

Inactive member

10y 54,300 1,104 1

Hi Vid,
Just wanted to say thanks for all the help until now. After many months of trying I now have all colors for my T2 ready and spot on perfect. I have only used Createx Opaque Red, yellow, blue,white and of course fluorescent using the RYB scheme.

image_(resized).jpeg

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#2869 8 years ago

KJB

dudah

Pinside+ Frequent

Algonquin, IL

11y 101K 2,986 10

How do I get these dirt lines off? I cleaned with Magic Eraser and 99% alcohol in all directions and the bottom ones won't budge. The top part is the same way. Running my finger over it, I can baaarely feel it.

shooter_(resized).jpg

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#2870 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

THE SHOOTER LANE (p3)

SHOOTER LANE REPAINTING (p18)

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#2871 8 years ago

WTF

swanng

Pinside member

18y 50,800 482

Vid-

What epoxy do YOU prefer for re-gluing problematic (raised/lowered) inserts? And what retailer(s) carry it?

Thanks

Greg

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#2872 8 years ago

KJB

dudah

Pinside+ Frequent

Algonquin, IL

11y 101K 2,986 10

Thanks Vid, I was scared to use sandpaper as I can't clear it. Plus the part on the bottom is out of the groove, guess I'll just sand it by hand.

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#2873 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from dudah:
Thanks Vid, I was scared to use sandpaper as I can't clear it. Plus the part on the bottom is out of the groove, guess I'll just sand it by hand.

If you can't put some clear down - don't sand it.

The bare wood will quickly turn to a big, black, spongy mess.

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1

#2874 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from swanng:
Vid-
What epoxy do YOU prefer for re-gluing problematic (raised/lowered) inserts? And what retailer(s) carry it?
Thanks
Greg

The thick stuff in the tubes at HF seems to work fine.

http://www.harborfreight.com/super-strong-quick-drying-epoxy-92665.html

They make some with solvent in it to **really** bond to plastics, but it's a little runny.

http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/epxy_plstc_s/overview/Loctite-Epoxy-Plastic-Bonder.htm

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#2875 8 years ago

DKP

tezting

Inactive member

10y 54,300 1,104 1

Hi Vid,
How dangerous is dust from clear? (When sanding).

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1

#2876 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from tezting:
How dangerous is dust from clear? (When sanding).

Avoid breathing any dust.

Respirator cartridges that have more than 40 hours of use are no longer safe for chemical use, but they can still function for dust protection.

1. Do not use those paper "dust masks", they are useless.

2. Sanding outdoors, downwind from your garden is good.

3. Wet sanding is excellent for controlling dust.

4. Any dry sanding should have a Shop-vac hooked up to keep the dust from contaminating your workspace.

5. Assume any industrial paint coatings (like a pinball cab) contains lead, no matter what year it was made.

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#2877 8 years ago

DKP

tezting

Inactive member

10y 54,300 1,104 1

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Wet sanding is excellent for controlling dust.

Wet sanding a playfield with the first layer of clear is no problem? (Normally wood+water is no good)

0

1

#2878 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from tezting:
Wet sanding a playfield with the first layer of clear is no problem? (Normally wood+water is no good)

2PAC is waterproof, so if you have laid down a full coat, you are watertight.

0

#2879 8 years ago

FCB

Fred736

Pinside member

8y 33,050 152 3

Any issues wet standing around thé openings? Any chances of water sleeping under the clear in those locations?

0

#2880 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from Fred736:
Any issues wet standing around thé openings? Any chances of water sleeping under the clear in those locations?

If your openings are raw wood, be careful.

If they are filled with clear, paint, or sealer you are probably OK.

Wet sanding isn't flooded, it's just wet to keep the sandpaper from clogging.

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#2881 8 years ago

???

frankg

Pinside member

Fernie, BC

11y 30,150 55 14 6 2

Also posted this in the main Restoration Forum ... was advised posting here would be a better option ...

Reaching out to the restoration experts for their opinion on a blunder I made re populating a playfield. I have an EM game (Volley)that has a freshly auto cleared playfield, 3 coats to be exact. During reassembly, I attached the top rollover switch with the wrong screws (1,1/8" vs 1") causing them to poke through the playfield and lift the clear around the area. Pics attached!
What is my best option? What's the best method of filling the area? I have all my playfields cleared by a friend of mine that owns a bodyshop so I actually don't handle the clearcoat product. I prep and sand and he clears. Can the area be filled using a syringe? Is crazy glue a decent option?
Any advise would be greatly appreciated,
Frank

P1050423_(resized).jpg

P1050430_(resized).jpg

P1050428_(resized).jpg

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2

#2882 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

That sucks bigtime, but at least it happened up at the top, farthest from the players.

You can try cutting along one edge with a BRAND NEW Xacto blade and then injecting some clear beneath. Clamp while it cures with wax paper and rubber block.

Or you can just cut the lifted sections completely out, and then fill the holes to the top with clear (overfill a little, just like you were filling a cupped insert).

Take lots of pictures, you will be surprised how good the repair will come out because the clear is still fresh.

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#2883 8 years ago

???

frankg

Pinside member

Fernie, BC

11y 30,150 55 14 6 2

Kinda figured there was no easy path to fix this. I don't handle the clear as a friend does that at his body shop. What should we use to 'inject' the clear if I go that route? Carving the area out scares the crap outa me to be quite honest.

Would injecting and filling with crazy glue be a bad idea?

0

1

#2884 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from frankg:
Would injecting and filling with crazy glue be a bad idea?

Worst idea ever.

Quoted from frankg:
What should we use to 'inject' the clear if I go that route?

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/2#post-551833

Quoted from frankg:
Kinda figured there was no easy path to fix this.

It won't be a hard fix.

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1

#2885 8 years ago

DEN

jibmums

Pinside member

12y 96,900 3,964 16

Not a restoration question, but after seeing the above pix, it prompts me to ask - what's the deal with those indentations at both ends of rollover switch slots? I've seen playfields both with and without them, were they routed into the playfields at the factory, or caused by years of balls rolling over the rollover slot? Always wondered about this.

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1

#2886 8 years ago

???

frankg

Pinside member

Fernie, BC

11y 30,150 55 14 6 2

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Worst idea ever.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/2#post-551833

It won't be a hard fix.

Just read your tutorial on ghosting, thanks! gonna go that route for sure. I presume I could get that type syringe at a medical supply store or vet clinic. Thanks again Vid!

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2

#2887 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from jibmums:
Not a restoration question, but after seeing the above pix, it prompts me to ask - what's the deal with those indentations at both ends of rollover switch slots? I've seen playfields both with and without them, were they routed into the playfields at the factory, or caused by years of balls rolling over the rollover slot? Always wondered about this.

Those are pressed into the playfield at the factory.

It keeps the ball from hanging up in the slots, and keeps the slots from tearing out from ball wear.

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#2888 8 years ago

DKP

tezting

Inactive member

10y 54,300 1,104 1

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Those are pressed into the playfield at the factory.
It keeps the ball from hanging up in the slots, and keeps the slots from tearing out from ball wear.

My current playfield has some pressed and some that is not. I thought it was wear and would "fix" it. But I guess it is best to leave it alone?

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#2889 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from tezting:
My current playfield has some pressed and some that is not. I thought it was wear and would "fix" it. But I guess it is best to leave it alone?

If the playfield has a good clearcoat on it, you will probably crack the clear trying to create those depressions.

If the playfield is being restored, you could add them.

If the playfield has some from the factory, they probably have the ones that the designer thought were important.

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#2890 8 years ago

MRB

mark532011

Pinside+ Frequent

9y 82,800 1,718 7

This may be a dumb question so please forgive me. The link to the Marcos mylar sheets a couple of pages back mentions mylaring the entire playfield. Is that a reasonable option? It seems like it would be an all-or-nothing approach as if there was a problem you would most likely have to start over with a fresh piece of wood, but once done it sounds easier to maintain than removing everything and waxing every year. Are there specific reasons or is it just a preference thing?

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#2891 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from mark532011:
The link to the Marcos mylar sheets a couple of pages back mentions mylaring the entire playfield. Is that a reasonable option?

Back in the day some Operators did in fact Mylar the entire playfield, especially the 80s Williams games that had the crappiest clear you could imagine.

Quoted from mark532011:
It seems like it would be an all-or-nothing approach as if there was a problem you would most likely have to start over with a fresh piece of wood,

Make sure you wax the playfield before you stick down the Mylar, or it could lift the paint if you try to remove it later.

Quoted from mark532011:
but once done it sounds easier to maintain than removing everything and waxing every year.

You don't have to remove everything to wax every month. On games like Whitewater where it is impossible to get to the rear lower loops, that would be a good spot for Mylar.

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#2892 8 years ago

JMY

jimy_speedt

Pinside member

Étalle

10y 58,300 1,159 15

Hi,

Back to my painting work. Weeks ago, I asked about what to use for thin black lines. Posca pen was not suited as it would bleed or be diluted by the clearcoat. I read the section about how to paint thin black straight line. But in my case, thin lines can have any shape.

Are there brushes thin enough to fufill the task ? thanks

0

1

#2893 8 years ago

KDN

kissedin

Pinside member

Tävelsås

10y 27,300 35 7

Regarding clearcoat lifting off when repopulating pf. I have now managed to obtain a horse syringe and 2PAC. (If you would like to see before pictures look at page 57 of this post).

I couldn't get the needle behind the coat but was able to use a "botox" method combined with a small paintbrush and the very nice and handy force of capillary. This is the result. I'm pretty satisfied with it. Thank you very much VID!

Please observe; the following was not an advice from VID so no garanties that this is the right way to go: Afterwards there was a small ammount of excess clearcoat around the hole used to allign the right flipper. I carefully used 1200 grit whet sandpaper and finished with some novus 2 polishing.

F14_lackskada_efter_(resized).JPG

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#2894 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from jimy_speedt:
Hi,
Back to my painting work. Weeks ago, I asked about what to use for thin black lines. Posca pen was not suited as it would bleed or be diluted by the clearcoat. I read the section about how to paint thin black straight line. But in my case, thin lines can have any shape.
Are there brushes thin enough to fufill the task ? thanks

Brush won't make clean lines.

You could use Frisket and then spray your black, or you could make some waterslide decals.

0

#2895 8 years ago

GER

hisokajp

Pinside+ Frequent

Redmond, WA

9y 81,800 1,891 46 11

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
A Brad-Point drill bit has two "wings" that are razor sharp. These wings will cleanly cut away the Clear from around the hole, without lifting the clear.
Choose a Brad Point bit that has wings just slightly larger than the threads on the screw. Always use a brand new bit; don't bite yourself in the ass by taking a shortcut here.
Warm the area with a hair dryer.
A brand new bit will easily cut away the clear, even when turned by hand.

What size of bits to you recommend to use? something like the 1/8" on this set?
http://www.amazon.com/DEWALT-DW1720-Brad-Point-6-Piece/dp/B005GOM3VO/ref=sr_1_1

0

#2896 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,253 18

Quoted from hisokajp:
What size of bits to you recommend to use? something like the 1/8" on this set?
»

You will want a few small sizes depending on the hole in question.

Think of those little headless finishing nails in some games....

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#2897 8 years ago

GER

hisokajp

Pinside+ Frequent

Redmond, WA

9y 81,800 1,891 46 11

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
You will want a few small sizes depending on the hole in question.
Think of those little headless finishing nails in some games....

right, I ll have to look around more, I couldn't fine anything under 1/8"

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#2898 8 years ago

MDS

Pinterest

Pinside member

10y 73,900 932 4 22

I did a quick search and found these on sale.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/153832/woodriver-7piece-hex-shank-standard-length-fractional-brad-point-bit.aspx

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?c=&cat=1,180,42240,42247&p=42247

0

#2899 8 years ago

JMY

jimy_speedt

Pinside member

Étalle

10y 58,300 1,159 15

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Brush won't make clean lines.
You could use Frisket and then spray your black, or you could make some waterslide decals.

Thanks,

Sorry to ask again. As I touch up with acrylic colour, drawing lines with an acrylic ballpen is not an option ?

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#2900 8 years ago

LSK

Insane

Pinside+ Frequent

Baroda, MI

10y 80,800 1,967 6 9

Vid, i have a question regarding removal of mylar. This is a thought i had, could you, or has anyone ever tried compressed air. Say take a ball inflation needle and insert into a bubble, and very slowly add pressure. Seems like it would pop the mylar off of the playfield. Maybe if you rubbed the edges of the bubble as you did it. Again just a thought i had, could be the worst thing ever to try, so please don't try thinking i said its a good idea.

By vid1900

11 years ago

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