Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

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#2701 8 years ago

SCJ

marl3y

Pinside member

Middleton, WI

9y 23,900 60 18

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Believe it or not, the HP4670 is still the only game in town.
The HP 4600 series works fine with Windows8 and Windows10.
My company deployed new laptops with Win10 and I've tested the HP Vista64 drivers and confirm they work, no problem:
http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/swd/public/readIndex?sp4ts.oid=407839&swLangOid=8&swEnvOid=2100

Thanks Vid. I'm an OS X guy, and it sounds like the 4600/4670 hasn't been supported for quite some time. However if someone here has one and a Mac maybe you can test the Image Capture software to see if it's recognized.

0

#2702 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from marl3y:
Thanks Vid. I'm an OS X guy, and it sounds like the 4600/4670 hasn't been supported for quite some time. However if someone here has one and a Mac maybe you can test the Image Capture software to see if it's recognized.

I think the last drivers were for 10.6, so you might have to make a bootable USB drive with Snow Leopard and just boot into that when you have scanning to do.

0

#2703 8 years ago

SCJ

marl3y

Pinside member

Middleton, WI

9y 23,900 60 18

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
I think the last drivers were for 10.6, so you might have to make a bootable USB drive with Snow Leopard and just boot into that when you have scanning to do.

Thanks I may try to pick one up on the cheap and give it a shot.

0

#2704 8 years ago

JMY

jimy_speedt

Pinside member

Étalle

10y 58,300 1,159 15

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Nope, not at all.
Call the local auto paint dealer. You need 2-part auto clear.

Here it is, I could finally find the good product. It is not available to the public over here.

- if I want to fill in the gaps between my scratched insert and the playfield, I need to have a very liquid clearcoat. Can I play with the thinner the way I want or do I have to keep proportions ?

- when the clearcoat is dry, I presume I can sand it for a flat playfield, no ?

thanks

image.jpeg

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1

#2705 8 years ago

OP

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vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from jimy_speedt:
Can I play with the thinner the way I want or do I have to keep proportions ?

You don't want to use the thinner unless you absolutely have to.

Since 2PAC shoots right from the can, it should be plenty thin already.

0

#2706 8 years ago

OP

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vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from jimy_speedt:
when the clearcoat is dry, I presume I can sand it for a flat playfield, no ?

Yes, your playfield will be completely flat.

0

#2707 8 years ago

ALP

ita47

Pinside+ Frequent

10y 94,800 1,285 1

Hey Vid, thanks for your guides and taking the time to answer all the questions. I have a Bally Hang Glider playfield I am getting ready to restore. The paint has worn away in spots. I plan to sand the unpainted areas and shelac those areas and then spray a coat of 2PAC on it to lock everything before I start working on the colors. My question is what is the best way to clean and remove all the wax that has been applied to the playfield over the years. I am guessing the wax will be in the cracks and crevices and I would think that if there is any left then the 2PAC could fisheye real bad. I also have no idea what has been applied to the playfield before I got it, so if someone did use millwax or pledge how do you remove that stuff without damaging the fragile aged paint on the playfield?

0

#2708 8 years ago

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vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from ita47:
My question is what is the best way to clean and remove all the wax that has been applied to the playfield over the years.

Naphtha is an excellent wax remover that does not dissolve paint.

0

#2709 8 years ago

ARS

Robotoes

Pinside member

Rutland, VT

9y 48,650 1,250

Hey Vid,

I'm wondering if you have any tips for removing small bits of frisket adhesive leftover on repainted surfaces. I've gotten some patches recently that have left some behind after removal. Will a little naptha on a q-tip work for this?

0

#2710 8 years ago

BLR

scampcamp

Pinside member

10y 74,550 1,852 12

Is VM&P Naphtha the same as Naphtha? Meaning... can I use it safely on playfield? And does it do the same thing... cleaning etc?

20150924_210816.jpg

0

#2711 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from Robotoes:
Hey Vid,
I'm wondering if you have any tips for removing small bits of frisket adhesive leftover on repainted surfaces. I've gotten some patches recently that have left some behind after removal. Will a little naptha on a q-tip work for this?

I've never had that problem.

How long was the Frisket left on the surface?

What brand?

0

#2712 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from scampcamp:
Is VM&P Naphtha the same as Naphtha? Meaning... can I use it safely on playfield? And does it do the same thing... cleaning etc?
20150924_210816.jpg

Varnish Makers and Painters Naphtha.

That's the good stuff.

0

#2713 8 years ago

ARS

Robotoes

Pinside member

Rutland, VT

9y 48,650 1,250

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
I've never had that problem.
How long was the Frisket left on the surface?
What brand?

Not long. Just long enough to cut out, spray a full color, and then removed. Grafix brand, low tack. It's wildly inconsistent.

0

#2714 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from Robotoes:
Not long. Just long enough to cut out, spray a full color, and then removed. Grafix brand, low tack. It's wildly inconsistent.

Could be a bad batch.

Try warming it with a hair dryer.

I've been using the clear one from TCP

http://www.tcpglobal.com

0

#2715 8 years ago

ARS

Robotoes

Pinside member

Rutland, VT

9y 48,650 1,250

been meaning to give the tcp stuff a try. next playfield i do i will for sure.

i'll try and warm it with my heat gun and see if i can gently scrape it up in an area covered by a side rail.

0

#2716 8 years ago

RPJ

penguinchicken

Inactive member

Camas, WA

12y 18,400 71 9

Forgive me if you've answered this question.

When you are laying down your thin "lock in coat" and your "pre decal coat" of clear, are you using an airbrush, or a full on coat with an HVLP?

Thanks again for this awesome post!

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#2717 8 years ago

OP

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vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from penguinchicken:
When you are laying down your thin "lock in coat" and your "pre decal coat" of clear, are you using an airbrush, or a full on coat with an HVLP?

HVLP.

0

#2718 8 years ago

JMY

jimy_speedt

Pinside member

Étalle

10y 58,300 1,159 15

I started to drip clear melange (2) on inserts with a sringe. This is the mask I am using, it is a JSP Force-8 with 713 cartridges which are the top for this brand (they are made for many things incl solvent painting). I keep the pre-filter on the filters.

I can smell the clear coat and I am wondering if that material is appropiate or or not. Thanks

mask.png

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#2719 8 years ago

DKP

tezting

Inactive member

10y 54,300 1,104 1

Quoted from jimy_speedt:
I started to drip clear melange (2) on inserts with a sringe. This is the mask I am using, it is a JSP Force-8 with 713 cartridges which are the top for this brand (they are made for many things incl solvent painting). I keep the pre-filter on the filters.
I can smell the clear coat and I am wondering if that material is appropiate or or not. Thanks

mask.png

If you can smell it something is wrong!
Are you sure it is tight? If so it might be a wrong filter. I have a 3m mask and I can not smell anything.

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#2720 8 years ago

JMY

jimy_speedt

Pinside member

Étalle

10y 58,300 1,159 15

Normally you inhale by the 2 cartridges and blow in the center. The mask is closely adjusted. Maybe the filters, I never used them, the expiry date is august 2015. There is a filter and a cap on it which I consider as a pre-filter. I presume this must be left in place.

0

#2721 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from jimy_speedt:
I can smell the clear coat and I am wondering if that material is appropiate or or not. Thanks

If you can smell the clear, it is not sealing on your face correctly.

Put your palms over the filter inlets and suck - find where the leak is around your face.

Also, make sure the filter cartridges are rated for isos

0

#2722 8 years ago

JMY

jimy_speedt

Pinside member

Étalle

10y 58,300 1,159 15

thanks for the advices, I am new to that and I admit, it is not a piece of ....

Now my playfield was not 100% flat so the clearcoat left the inserts and went for a ride 2-3 cms outside. what granularity can I use for sanding to get a pf flat again without damaging the original colours ? thank you

0

1

#2723 8 years ago

OP

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vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from jimy_speedt:
Now my playfield was not 100% flat so the clearcoat left the inserts and went for a ride 2-3 cms outside. what granularity can I use for sanding to get a pf flat again without damaging the original colours ? thank you

Don't worry about sanding it totally flat until you spray on a clear coat over the entire playfield.

Otherwise if you slip, you will scratch up the paint.

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1

#2724 8 years ago

MCD

dasvis

Pinside member

Salem, OR

12y 101K 4,796 11 16

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Believe it or not, the HP4670 is still the only game in town.
The HP 4600 series works fine with Windows8 and Windows10.
My company deployed new laptops with Win10 and I've tested the HP Vista64 drivers and confirm they work, no problem:
http://h20564.www2.hp.com/hpsc/swd/public/readIndex?sp4ts.oid=407839&swLangOid=8&swEnvOid=2100

Glad I picked one up when I could!

0

#2725 8 years ago

E Z

Iizi

Pinside member

Helsinki

10y 31,550 75 7

Quoted from Robotoes:
Hey Vid,
I'm wondering if you have any tips for removing small bits of frisket adhesive leftover on repainted surfaces. I've gotten some patches recently that have left some behind after removal. Will a little naptha on a q-tip work for this?

I have had same problem, Createx frisket leaves some residue every now and then. I wipe it off with silicone removal, what I think is pretty close to naphtha (since I can´t find naphtha in Finland). No need to be too careful, it doesn't remove paint.

0

#2726 8 years ago

JMY

jimy_speedt

Pinside member

Étalle

10y 58,300 1,159 15

Isn't Naphta the same as oil for old lighters ?

0

#2727 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from jimy_speedt:
Isn't Naphta the same as oil for old lighters ?

Yes.

0

#2728 8 years ago

JMY

jimy_speedt

Pinside member

Étalle

10y 58,300 1,159 15

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Yes.

So I presume this can be found as Zippo lighter oïl.

While I am here, I now have a flat playfield after filling the inserts gaps and sanding. But the surface of inserts has a bit faded with the sanding. Before I put the water slide decals, what can I put on the inserts to make them clear again with no extra thickness on the top of them ?

thanks

0

#2729 8 years ago

SMM

dr_nybble

Pinside+ Frequent

Ottawa, ON

10y 114K 3,544 15

Hi Vid -- I sanded down the discoloured wood areas on my Gay 90's playfield with a random orbital sander, it did the job nicely.

Now I have a further preliminary question before I can start repainting. This playfield has a lot of paint loss down to the wood.

If I just paint on top of that I suspect that the paint will not fill in the chipped out areas? How should I prepare this before painting? I could see priming and then sanding it smooth, or even just sanding the entire playfield down to the bare wood. I do have scans of the entire playfield so I suppose this is a possibility although it might make things more tricky. Advice?

Doxie_0126.jpg

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1

#2730 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from jimy_speedt:
While I am here, I now have a flat playfield after filling the inserts gaps and sanding. But the surface of inserts has a bit faded with the sanding. Before I put the water slide decals, what can I put on the inserts to make them clear again with no extra thickness on the top of them ?

Waterslide decals stick best to shiny surfaces, so polish them up before application with finer grades of paper and compound.

0

#2731 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from dr_nybble:
If I just paint on top of that I suspect that the paint will not fill in the chipped out areas? How should I prepare this before painting? I could see priming and then sanding it smooth, or even just sanding the entire playfield down to the bare wood. I do have scans of the entire playfield so I suppose this is a possibility although it might make things more tricky. Advice?

You can use primer, or shoot a thin layer of clearcoat to lock down all the loose paint and seal the wood.

0

#2732 8 years ago

JAB

jboner1058

Pinside member

Bridgeton, NJ

8y 53,550 985 5 9

Hey vid, have you tried naphtha and flour to remove Mylar glue? My phantom of the opera's gold paint DOES NOT like alcohol

0

#2733 8 years ago

NMS

nikpinball

Pinside member

Cleveland, OH

10y 77,050 1,249 7 30

Hey vid, i was wondering if you have any tips on applying a playfield overlay or if you did a tutorial on it already and i missed it? Thanks for any assistance.

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#2734 8 years ago

???

shum

Inactive member

Unknown

11y 1,000 1

Hi vid,

I'd like to ask you for an advice. How should I fix these scratches on the playfield: should I paint it, or put decal over the original?

Thanks in advance.

20151214_145355.jpg20151214_145427.jpg

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#2735 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

Pinside member

Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from shum:
How should I fix these scratches on the playfield: should I paint it, or put decal over the original?

That is actually not scratches, but Planking where the wood has checked.

I'd paint it.

0

#2736 8 years ago

JMY

jimy_speedt

Pinside member

Étalle

10y 58,300 1,159 15

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Waterslide decals stick best to shiny surfaces, so polish them up before application with finer grades of paper and compound.

Hi, I have now filled all inserts with CC. The dry clear coat made like a little hill higher than the PF, I have sanded to come to the pf levl. Now I can finish each insert with finer grade paper.

By compound, do you mean common PF polish ? Is manual sanding enough to get clear inserts? they are now opaque after rough sanding.

thank you

0

1

#2737 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from jimy_speedt:
By compound, do you mean common PF polish ?

Sand up to 2500 grit, then switch to compound:

306169-i.jpg

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/27#post-1986492

Quoted from jimy_speedt:
Is manual sanding enough to get clear inserts?

Not sanding, but buffing with compound will.

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#2738 8 years ago

JMY

jimy_speedt

Pinside member

Étalle

10y 58,300 1,159 15

Thank you Vid. That product is not available over here. Medium cut seems to be the brand of a unique US manufacturer. that is why I was trying to find an alternative

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1

#2739 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Go to an auto paint store.

Tell them you need "medium cut", "fine cut" and "fine polish".

The brand does not matter.

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#2740 8 years ago

E Z

Iizi

Pinside member

Helsinki

10y 31,550 75 7

Do you think its necessary to polish inserts before applying waterslide decals? Before last coat I have sanded playfield flat with 800 grit wet paper, applied decals and shot final coat of clear. Transparent parts of decals disappear after clearcoating. Is there some downside when done this way?

Do you wet sand between coats?

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#2741 8 years ago

BKC

pinster68

Pinside+ Frequent

Asbury Park, NJ

13y 114K 4,338 10 33

Vid,

I have a Black Rose playfield that was mostly mylar covered, now removed and cleaned up nicely. It doesn't appear to have been diamond plated. Some touch-ups and wood repair will be needed. I want to get a layer of clear down (PPG's Omni AU MC161 (and MH167 activator)) before digging in. The surface is pretty glossy ... what grit sandpaper should I work with to be both safe for the artwork but provide a bite for the clear?

Thanks in advance,

Brian

0

#2742 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Quoted from pinster68:
The surface is pretty glossy ... what grit sandpaper should I work with to be both safe for the artwork but provide a bite for the clear?

800 is probably a good choice.

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#2743 8 years ago

ABU

abukede

Inactive member

Paços De Ferreira

8y 10,650 7 5

Hi vid.
Many thanks for this exelent guide. I have read a pdf version of this forum guide and not read all the posts. So sorry if for some reason this question is already answered.

I'm restoring a STTNG and and the paint is pretty good but I found that the previous owner as put some kind of liquid in the interior that I belive as soften the inserts glue.
20151219_173510.jpg
20151220_023032.jpg
20151220_023055.jpg
When I press the glue with my nail it is not hard like epoxy. Also when cleaning some kind of white material glued to the insert interior that I only could remove with Methylated Spirit I noticed some of them are lose mainly in the zone where it seems this liquid was put in first place.
So my question is if I should remove the inserts, clean the old glue and epoxy them or only fil with clear? Sorry if the answer seems to be obvious but I'm afraid that when removing the inserts damage the paint.

Thanks in advance.

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#2744 8 years ago

OP

BOY

vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

Only remove inserts that are loose, because it's an otherwise risky endeavor.

Hard to say what someone else did to a pinball machine, but take lots of pictures as you go.

If you can safely remove and clean them, then epoxy them back in place, that would be the route I'd go.

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#2745 8 years ago

DDW

sohchx

Pinside member

9y 87,050 2,259 76

Hey Vid, Being that PF color was laid down thick in the past I have small low spots down to the wood in allot of places. I have bondo spot filler putty, is that sufficient enough to fill those low spots to get them level with the entire surface again?

Thanks

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#2746 8 years ago

OP

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vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

The 2PAC usually fills in the low spots automatically, so normally you only use filler on missing wood.

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#2747 8 years ago

DDW

sohchx

Pinside member

9y 87,050 2,259 76

The 2 pac does fill the low spots for me, but only so much and does not fill them completely. Should I just drip clear into those spots while the clear is still wet? It's going to take a long time if so because the low spots are abundant.

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#2748 8 years ago

OP

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vid1900

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Sana'a

12y 169K 40,258 18

I usually drip clear into low spots before I spray on the clear coat.

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#2749 8 years ago

RSE

Redeyes

Inactive member

Lancaster, PA

14y 65,800 1,166 4 69

image_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpegimage_(resized).jpeg

Since were on the topic of low spots heres one for ya. Picked up This is a JM yesterday and saw this gem while going through things with the owner. Looks like someone got pissed and slammed a ball down on Johhnys right eye causing a big divot ball mark. It does affect game play but not to much. Paint seems good but at top of divot u notice a little paint crack and also a black mark there from ball hitting it. That may clean off. Game is pretty clean and good restore candidate. I was just thinking to put mylar over until im ready to have it professionally fixed. From what i hear this pin would be great cleared! Merry Christmas!!!