Reston, VA
Thanks Vid!!!!
I'll be putting together a Marco Supply shopping list with this at the top.
Jeff...
(Topic ID: 33446)
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Quoted from Coyote:Does that game really say ''For Each Lited Number''? I LOVE that.
Hilarious! Hundreds of games later and I hadn't noticed...
Here is a picture of the promotional flyer.
Let's see if I remember circa 1980. Was that when the Lite Beer wars began?
Are there anyway to find out what the original colors where on a playfield?
The reason I ask is that the outlane and inlane on my T2 seems to be brighter red than the rest of the red on the playfield (Slingshot, popbumper etc.) But I am worried that it might just be fade? And looking at images of other T2 playfields make it impossible to see.
So would love to know how situations like this could be solved?
Sana'a
Quoted from vid1900:Sometimes you can remove a rail or something and you get a pretty good idea of the color it used to be.
And if you are out of luck? :-/
Quoted from tezting:And if you are out of luck? :-/
Find someone ELSE'S game, and see if you can look under a plastic, rail, or post.. 
Quoted from vid1900:It's probably "Contact Paper" for windows, so try heat and take it slow.
By "heat", you mean a heat gun or will a hair dryer work too?
Bruce
Quoted from PinballFever:By "heat", you mean a heat gun or will a hair dryer work too?
Bruce
Take the pop off so you don't melt anything and try a hair dryer.
Be careful, who knows what kind of glue was on that contact paper back then.....
Hey vid, I have no idea if this is cigarette smoke or not on the playfield, but I've tried naphtha on a rag, and alcohol with the magic eraser and just can't get it to go away. It's on every exposed area of the playfield of my POTO. Is it laquer patina? Any suggestions not in your cleaning guide?
Quoted from jboner1058:Hey vid, I have no idea if this is cigarette smoke or not on the playfield, but I've tried naphtha on a rag, and alcohol with the magic eraser and just can't get it to go away. It's on every exposed area of the playfield of my POTO. Is it laquer patina? Any suggestions not in your cleaning guide?
I could be the clear has been exposed to a lot of UV over the years.
You see the same thing with water based polyurethanes, any place the sun hits it turns yellow over time.
Personally, I'd leave it alone.
You might notice it if the playfield is a wall hanger, but populated, it will likely go unnoticed.
Quoted from TGIPinside:Hilarious! Hundreds of games later and I hadn't noticed...
Here is a picture of the promotional flyer.
Let's see if I remember circa 1980. Was that when the Lite Beer wars began?photo.jpg
Just noticed this on JackBot. That was in the 90s!!
Quoted from vid1900:Take the pop off so you don't melt anything and try a hair dryer.
Be careful, who knows what kind of glue was on that contact paper back then.....
I'll be very careful. It also gives me an excuse to buy a hair dryer for my wife's long black hair. 
Thanks again, Vid.
Bruce
Quoted from vid1900:I could be the clear has been exposed to a lot of UV over the years.
You see the same thing with water based polyurethanes, any place the sun hits it turns yellow over time.
Personally, I'd leave it alone.
You might notice it if the playfield is a wall hanger, but populated, it will likely go unnoticed.
I wonder if the same trick that draws out the yellow in plastics would work here? The clear is likely responding to some of the same processes.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/say-goodbye-to-old-yellowed-plastics
I can't imagine it would hurt to try, but would defer to Vid on this one.
Wellington
Quoted from vid1900:That is the nicest looking green penis I've ever seen.
<cannot unsee!>
Quoted from PinballShoppe:<cannot unsee!>
Yes, and I have many hours of rubbing (sanding) to do on a NOS playfield that some nimrod clear coated with Varathane that yellowed... thanks VID for that observation 
Not sure if the UV and peroxide trick would work without bleaching the paint, or also causing the wood grain to swell.
Quoted from vid1900:That is the nicest looking green penis I've ever seen.
Vid,
Just out of curiosity. Do you intentionally look for these or do you have some kind of penis radar?
Bruce
I've got a small spot on my EK that I need to touch up. About the size of a dime. I don't really have access to airbrushing equipment.
Would it be possible to hand brush on Createx and sand flat? Or is there another type of paint that might work with a standard art supply paint brush? Sorry if I missed this question earlier in the thread. Also, is it hard to color match white that has faded to a cream color? I'm thinking adding yellow and maybe a pinch of black or brown.
Thanks for helping all of us!
Quoted from PinballFever:Vid,
Just out of curiosity. Do you intentionally look for these or do you have some kind of penis radar?
Bruce
Both my Gaydar and my Penisdar are long range units.
I see things, wherever I go.
Quoted from Carrman:Would it be possible to hand brush on Createx and sand flat?
It's a lot more work than buying an $8 airbrush kit, but yes you can hand brush it.
Quoted from Carrman:Also, is it hard to color match white that has faded to a cream color? I'm thinking adding yellow and maybe a pinch of black or brown.
Usually White + Brown or Tan will do it.
Quoted from vid1900:It's a lot more work than buying an $8 airbrush kit, but yes you can hand brush it.
Usually White + Brown or Tan will do it.
A lot more work is very true!!! I started out doing it with a brush by hand! Doing each line, little chip,etc... Taking my time to keep it clean looking, I was even impressed I was able to remake the center traffic light on High speed and the cars and thought they looked really good.
My reason....so I could lay on the floor at night while listening to the TV and work on the Playfield. Also the original paint is so brittle and I figured the least amount of masking the better.I don't have a way to spray clear yet, and I don't want to go with cheap tools or spend the money on a compressor, gun,clear,reducers etc...Without knowing if I can even do this well enough to do another one. I may hate it before I'm done! 
I did things kind of mixed up since it's my first attempt. So, as soon as I started with the Isopropyl alcohol to clean up a few and some spots of old clear(?), I wiped my work? All that time, was smeared and wiped out with a few swipes of a rag! So then ticked off I wiped it all down and said the heck with it, bought the brisket, and now I'm going to wait on a few nicer days so I can spray the clear with the garage door open. I have to use the 2 part in a can even though I really hate to, and then start painting on top of it......again! lol
I'm learning! Even after reading the great threads? It takes a few tries for it to sink in and learn the process for me, I still have to learn by my own mistakes! And I did!
To cut it short? If your going to use a brush? Make sure your done with the alcohol! Unless it's in a drink! Maybe that was my problem?
Quoted from vid1900:Both my Gaydar and my Penisdar are long range units.
I see things, wherever I go.
That answers my question, lol.
Bruce
Hi Vid,
I am close to be doing a lot of airbrushing (color matching is a pain and time consuming...)
I was thinking about always putting down a white basecoat so I am sure that the color after will have even and good coverage.
But are there any disadvantages by doing it? Will I have trouble with a white line/edge? (Like with white water slide decals)
I've got a playfield with a very tiny wear spot in a flesh tone area - a lady leg on Future Spa. I'm thinking that a flesh tone might be a PITA to mix from primary colors for me. Has anyone used auto clear over Tamiya spray lacquer? They sell a flesh tone mix. I have sprayed auto clear over Testors Lacquer spray in the little can (and confirmed that Testors non-lacquer WILL wrinkle). Wasn't sure about the Tamiya line.
Quoted from tezting:I was thinking about always putting down a white basecoat so I am sure that the color after will have even and good coverage.
Some translucent colors like Fluorescent need a white basecoat, so use it if you need it.
Quoted from tezting:But are there any disadvantages by doing it? Will I have trouble with a white line/edge?
Only if you make the white area too big.
Practice cutting RIGHT on the line.
Sorry for being slow... Might be because English is not my native language
Quoted from vid1900:Some translucent colors like Fluorescent need a white basecoat, so use it if you need it.
Should I understand this like i should only use white base when I really need it or should i understand it like I should at least use it when needed?
Quoted from vid1900:Practice cutting RIGHT on the line.
Could you please explain what you mean be that?
Quoted from tezting:Should I understand this like i should only use white base when I really need it or should i understand it like I should at least use it when needed?
Light colors, or translucent colors probably need a base coat.
For instance, black does not need a base coat, florescent orange does need one.
Quoted from tezting:Could you please explain what you mean be that?
When you cut your Frisket to mask off for your paints, make sure you cut EXACTLY on the line so the white base coat does not show around the edge.
For those looking for a portable/temporary paint booth and don't want to build one, I just discovered the major hardware stores carry "zipwall" for under $200. It is a freestanding booth that folds up into a carrying case and can handle variable height walls.
http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/th/content_26/Q4_2009/zipwall-B002RL
DK-5-lg.jpg
you would still have to wear breather/mask and have an exhaust port though.
Quoted from vid1900:Since you are not going to clear the playfield, you can just do a "good enough" spot touchup with a brush and acrylic paint and then cover with new Mylar.
One day when you want to do a high end restore, you can remove the Mylar and fix it permanently.
I am really getting nowhere on this...
I have filled the screw hole with bondo and sanded smooth (not uber smooth but some paint was coming off already…) with 2000 grit wet sandpaper.
I bought the Createx Opaque Airbrush set and first tried using a paintbrush but the brush strokes were too visible so I thought what the hell and bought an HF airbrush.
I just can’t get the right marine blue as the original one and you can still see some of the underlying woodgrain. It gets even worse when I try to do the little lighter bleu line in between…
I tried mixing the color several times but it always end up too “flat” compare to PF factory shinny bleu, is there something I am missing?
The Frisket helps for the bigger shape though when I do the second color some of the frisket glue sticks to the first one and I can't really wipe it clean without wiping the paint.
Try the golden paints website. They have a virtual paint mixer which will let you upload an image to pick colors. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.goldenpaints.com/mixer&ved=0CFcQjBAwFmoVChMI6o_5sPb6yAIVBTs-Ch14RQwJ&usg=AFQjCNEyphAfcGXu7yPxwf9OylqZyCWcrg
I know it will show their paints but it can be a good guidea to help you mix a close match.
I bought the Createx Opaque Airbrush set and first tried using a paintbrush but the brush strokes were too visible so I thought what the hell and bought an HF airbrush.
I just can’t get the right marine blue as the original one and you can still see some of the underlying woodgrain. It gets even worse when I try to do the little lighter bleu line in between…
I tried mixing the color several times but it always end up too “flat” compare to PF factory shinny bleu, is there something I am
Hi Vid,
Great post thanks for this valuable information.
However i have a question.
I'm restoring a Baywatch.
Currently in the process of cleaning the playfield.
Now i noticed some dents in the playfield.
One is from where the maylar was and another i don't know someone just threw someting on the playfield.
What would be the best way to repair this?
Do i have to sand it and repaint or would clearcoat be just enough?
attached a photo but not sure if it's clear enough.
Quoted from vid1900:This is where you start to separate the boys from the men in playfield restoration.
Even sanding the edge of the insert is not enough.
The final step is to prime the plastic with 3M Plastic Primer.
It goes on thin like water and dries in a few seconds.
Now when you apply the epoxy, you can't chip it off.
9.jpg
I searched for this product... a lot of choices for what looks like the correct product... could not definitively tell what to order from the 3M site... could someone reply with a link please? Thanks!!!!!!
Quoted from mad_max8:Currently in the process of cleaning the playfield.
Now i noticed some dents in the playfield.
One is from where the maylar was and another i don't know someone just threw someting on the playfield.
What would be the best way to repair this?
Do i have to sand it and repaint or would clearcoat be just enough?
attached a photo but not sure if it's clear enough.
Sand the dent so that the clear has some tooth.
Drip fill with clearcoat, just like you would a concave insert.
Quoted from hisokajp:I just can’t get the right marine blue as the original one and you can still see some of the underlying woodgrain. It gets even worse when I try to do the little lighter bleu line in between…
I tried mixing the color several times but it always end up too “flat” compare to PF factory shinny bleu, is there something I am missing?
It looks like you need to add more dark blue to better match that color.
Once the paint dries, wipe the area with Naphtha to see how the color will look when shiny.
Assume that the paint will slightly darken once clearcoated or overlaid with Mylar.
Quoted from vid1900:It looks like you need to add more dark blue to better match that color.
Once the paint dries, wipe the area with Naphtha to see how the color will look when shiny.
Assume that the paint will slightly darken once clearcoated or overlaid with Mylar.
So I went and got an “Ultramarine Blue” from Michaels and the shade is way better. I just couldn't get there with the Createx ones... I had the perfect match when paint brushing the color, even after drying but it does come out a bit “strong” once airbrushed on (pics). However after wiping a quick naphtha on it the color do look similar. The blue next to it now turned “white-ish” quite a bit from all the nearby sanding and action to try and fix the PF, not sure if that is an issue on its own? Looks fine when Naphtha is on it so I am hoping with the coat of clear in a can I will do before putting the new mylar on it should look ok?
I am a bit worried about the Bondo “edge” you can see in the picture. I covered up the screw hole and the surrounding where paint wore off and wood was visible to try and get a smooth surface (else the grain of the PF wood could be seen in the paint). I sanded down to a point where you can see through the Bondo but there is obviously still some “micro” edge where the Bondo stops… I am afraid that will still show even after clearing, should I push harder with the sanding? I still need the Bondo to cover the bare wood so I am not sure I can ever completely get rid of the “edge”?
Sorry for all the questions, I am really just shooting in the dark here
Quoted from grandy:Is it foolish to do the final wetsanding 600/800/1000/1200/1500 by hand?
It all depends on what your time is worth.
Your wife might not think it's foolish, because it keeps you away from her, out in the garage longer.
See Saw PF is slowly moving forward. Gathered all my courage and finally gave it a first coat of clear.
IMG_20151101_151321_1.jpg
IMG_20151101_151329.jpg
IMG_20151101_151423.jpg
First time using a paint gun of any sort ... ever. Far from perfect with some light orange peeling and what I believe is a not so thin "thin coat" . But I'm happy with my first attempt nevertheless. Also happy to report that my small paint boot setup in my garage (see post previous page) worked perfectly. The extraction fan worked great and the only place you could smell paint was in the booth. No paint smell in the garage at all ☺.
I decided to sand down the pf with a dry wall sanding block. Used 400, then 320, finally pulled out the heavy artillery and used 220... Yeah I know, kind of went the wrong way but the finer grit wasn't removing anything significant. There were a lot of low spots mainly caused by all the missing paint (worn or flaked off) so I figured this sanding would help reduce these low spots.
Then gave have it a second coat. Same results (light orange peeling and maybe a bit thick) but the low spots improved a bit. Some of the shallower ones have disappeared and the crease around the inserts starting to fill up.
IMG_20151109_084007_1.jpg
IMG_20151109_084126_1.jpg
IMG_20151109_084025_1.jpg
IMG_20151109_084038_1.jpg
One thing I've learned regarding filling recessed inserts with clear is that next time, I will make sure the dropped clear spills over onto the PF a bit to avoid this crease around the insert.
So now I'm about to give the PF a second sanding and my question is this:
Should I give it a vigorous sanding and then a third coat to further reduce those low spots or should I give it a light sanding and start masking and painting and keep the filling of the low spots for the final coats? A third option may also be to give it a vigorous sanding (220) and work my way up to a fine sanding (400 or 600) and start painting. The finer sanding would be to prevent paint from seeping under the frisket. Not sure if this is really an issue or not.
If I decide to clear again, this coming weekend may be the last before it gets too cold.
Quoted from Fred736:See Saw PF is slowly moving forward. Gathered all my courage and finally gave it a first coat of clear.
Fred, what made you opt out of doing any paint touch ups on this? I loooove touch up projects like this one.
I decided to go to full repaint because the PF was in pretty bad condition to start with. A lot of worn spots, flaked paint, planking and a lot of annoying pin holes in the top coat especially in the lower PF. Those pin holes exposed the base white coat and sometimes the wood base and were an eye sore.
You can see them a lot in the dark blues area. Cant see them as much in the red and yellow on this picture, but if you zoom in you'll see that they are there.
Touch ups would have been quite exhaustive in my opinion and I don't yet trust my color mixing and matching abilities. I am afraid i may have ended up with a spotted PF.
So with a little encouragement from the people on this post I decided to go for the full repaint.
The art on this PF being mostly straight lines and solid colors also made itself quite suitable for this kind of restoration.
I just happened to stumble on this website a few days ago:
http://www.pinball-dreams.com/de/dienstleistungen/spielfeldrestauration/dokumentation/see-saw.html
Its a series of pics of the very same PF (See Saw) I am working on being fully repainted.
Pretty interesting and certainly a superb job.
Hope mine will be be half as good as that!
I notice that they made some stencils for their lettering rather than use waterslide decals.
// Error: Image 473676 not found //
I've been thinking of ways to do that and I'm looking for some info on that.
I have a method of cutting the letters in stencil paper (laser cutter) but the holes come loose (like the inside of an "O" for example) and I have to manually center it. Not good.
I would welcome any suggestions on how to do that?
Toronto, ON
Quoted from Fred736:I just happened to stumble on this website a few days ago:
http://www.pinball-dreams.com/de/dienstleistungen/spielfeldrestauration/dokumentation/see-saw.html
Its a series of pics of the very same PF (See Saw) I am working on being fully repainted.
Pretty interesting and certainly a superb job.
Hope mine will be be half as good as that!
I notice that they made some stencils for their lettering rather than use waterslide decals.I've been thinking of ways to do that and I'm looking for some info on that.
I have a method of cutting the letters in stencil paper (laser cutter) but the holes come loose (like the inside of an "O" for example) and I have to manually center it. Not good.
I would welcome any suggestions on how to do that?text_sencil.jpg
Enjoy the reading or commission the text stencils. Pinside member dr_nybble is in Ottawa and has a cameo.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/silhouette-cameo-pinball-restorers-club/page/2#post-2788538
Quoted from Fred736:I notice that they made some stencils for their lettering rather than use waterslide decals.
That's one way to do it, but it takes MUCH longer to do it that way.
Most games have the same size keylining around the inserts, so once you draw it for all the 3/4" inserts you simply make a waterslide decal sheet of 50 more.
Quoted from Fred736:Should I give it a vigorous sanding and then a third coat to further reduce those low spots or should I give it a light sanding and start masking and painting and keep the filling of the low spots for the final coats? A third option may also be to give it a vigorous sanding (220) and work my way up to a fine sanding (400 or 600) and start painting. The finer sanding would be to prevent paint from seeping under the frisket. Not sure if this is really an issue or not.
You can block sand to 800grit and then frisket away.
Do all the same colors on the playfield at the same time.
Quoted from vid1900:Glue the insert from the back of the playfield so it stops moving around.
Yes, drill some holes into the old wood to give extra tooth to the wood repair epoxy.
The stuff that comes in a "log" and that you kneed together works great. Sand before it is 100% cured, or it is really tough to sand.It's a lot harder to spot clear, but if it's just a saucer hole, you might do it with a small brush.
What is the brand of the wood repair epoxy you are using, where is it found? I went to Home Depot in the aisle where the wood putty, stains, etc is and couldn't find any sort of log stuff, just putty, plastic wood filler etc. I asked the paint dept. employee right in the area and he sucked and didnt know squat about something that would be strong enough.
Here's a photo of what I'm trying to fix, as well as the mini playfield side also before installing a cliffy.
20151111_225239 (1).jpg
and here is what I bought (my guess is it won't work and isnt strong enough to take a beating)
20151111_225128.jpg
Thanks for the help.
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