Bobby Orr's Power Play
Bally, 1978
Gilligan's Island
Bally, 1991
Space Jam
Sega, 1996Quoted from jonesjb:Is there a particular brand of tack cloth we should use when cleaning the play field of dust prior to using a water based product (such as paint or clear). I ask because if the tack cloth is oil based, would it impact the ability for the water based product to lay on the playfield properly?
I usually buy whatever brand they have at the paint store, they all seem to work the same, oil or acrylic.
Quoted from Jtslade:I have a couple of inserts that move slightly when pushed and are lifting, so I will glue them with the 2 part epoxy (exactly as detailed in Vids guide). Should I glue all of them down to prevent future lifting?
Yep, glue them all.
Quoted from Jtslade:I have three small holes (not sure why) just below the bottom insert between the flippers. From the bottom of the circle insert to the hole seems to be some wood split, should that be carved out and filed, or sanded and filled or what? Is there a guide on filling holes and repairing playfield damage in Vid's guides
Drip in some clearcoat to fill in the holes.
If you are painting the entire area, you can fill with Bondo.
Quoted from mof:Vid, what's your decision process between using mylar POP rings OR a full sheet with holes cut and edges cut to match the playfield layout.
I have a few new CPR playfields now that I want to do "best practices with" to last 50+ years...
thanks,
mof
If all the pops are close together forming a "pop pen", I often use a single piece of mylar cut to the nearest feature in the artwork.
Premade pop rings are good if the pops are already installed.
Quoted from xeneize:I have a playfield coming in that while populated, fell off the previous owner's wall. As a result it is broken (in two places) near the bottom. I plan on having the PF restored by a certain "Great" guy in Canada who claims the PF can be repaired and restored. What would YOU recommend for a repair method? Structural integrity is what I am after here.
I'd probably use Fiberglass Resin.
Make sure it's clamped flat while it drys.
Quoted from Robotoes:I'm wondering if anyone has lettering tips...
I'm getting prepped to repaint and clear two PF's in the coming week or two and I really don't want to do waterslide decals for the lettering. Is frisketing this off totally insane? Am I insane?
Use the "what the font" website and make the decals.
1000x better than frisket.
Quoted from bobnatlanta:Huh...masked off a bunch more areas and started painting again this afternoon. Somehow or other, I've got a TON of moisture in the paint or the line, or both. I've got the basic set up from harbor freight. What am I doing wrong? Do I need to add some kind of moisture filter?
Pressurize your tank, then open the BOTTOM drain and blow out the water.
You need one moisture trap AT the tank, then a disposable moisture filter AT the gun.
Quoted from MinnPin:WHAT IN GOD'S NAME AM I DOING WRONG? I am, once again running out of days in which to do this before cold weather, I am getting very sick of sanding this over and over and over, and I just end up with the same results. Here are some closeup pictures of the bubbles which cover my entire PF.
Could be a few things:
Playfield and 2PAC are not the same temp.
Shop or spraybooth are contaminated with silicone (like from "fisheye eliminator")
Gasket is missing from some part of the gun.
Too thick of a layer of clear and the solvent could not escape.
Quoted from Pinterest:First, where I cut the frisket I ended up cutting into the playfield slightly - and it transmitted through the clear a bit. I'm not too worried about this - I figure after I block out the playfield I'll just fill it in before I re-clear it. Yes?
Yep, just sand it out, no problem.
Quoted from Pinterest:Only two places (no where else) my touchups wrinkled even though I took precautions by spraying two "dust" coats first. Guess 2 were not enough?
The decals wrinkled?
I can't tell from the photos.
Quoted from tezting:And he is back!
It's a tough job but somebody's gotta do it.
Quoted from wantdataeast:If I can use the light green/dark green letters as a decal, then I could obviously just combine the green lettering and dark outline on one clear waterslide decal?
As long as you have a color laser printer, it should be doable.
Quoted from vid1900:5f25e14d-33f8-4bbe-81f5-b2be2d41ee7e_1000.jpg
Sorry Vid, but I have to disagree with your choice of a polyester resin. It stinks, it''ll burn your skin, your eyes, your lungs, doesn't wet out well, dries yellow or sometimes brown (if you need to have an exposed clear part), etc, etc. Yes, polyester is 1/2 the price, but it's not a true bonding agent. The SAFE way and STRONGER way to bond is with an epoxy resin like West System 105. Doesn't stink, you can get it on your skin and it doesn't burn, it cleans up easy with White Vinegar, wets out incredibly well, dries ultra clear with the right hardener, and with cheap West System fillers you can bond in vertical positions with no sag. No, I don't work for the Gougeon Brothers, but 20 years of wooden sailboat restorations teaches you a lot.
Quoted from vid1900:Yep, just sand it out, no problem.
The decals wrinkled?
I can't tell from the photos.
No - the touch up paint wrinkled - but only in the two places. Weird huh? It didnt' wrinkle anywhere else.
It sanded out fine though - and hoping for another warm weekend before the winter to finish this so I can get it back together.
I have been posting on the progress here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/my-first/page/2#post-2723373
Thanks for the response vid, but they are wholes , whoever owned the game previously came right through the playfield with four screws to the right flipper bracket. I'll post some new pics of the wholes shortly. Welcome back btw.
Hello Vid,
I believe my PF is now, as clean as it will get.
I've ME the whole surface to get the loose flakes of paint off.
In a few spots, I've ME a bit to much. But i wanted to reveal the original color for my color matching.
I've also scanned the whole thing.
I've managed to get rid of the ball track to my satisfaction.
Still shows a wee bit in certain spots when wiped with Naphtha but acceptable to me.
And the shooter late is also fair.
I'm still debating if I will or not try to stain or shellac the wooden areas from which i have scraped off all of the old varnish.
Top, bottom and slingshots.
I cant really find shellac flakes. I might just leave as is.
Bugs me that there are a few area in upper PF with non-scraped varnish.
Color is different. May just decide to scrape these also.
Wood stain may be an option. Varnish is completely gone, so it would hold.
Would it look good under the clear?
I've even started preparing my masks for the cabinet artwork.
But that's a topic for another post. 
Other than the above, here is what i think are my next steps:
-Drill out stripped screw holes, fill with epoxy and top with bondo.
-Fix larger divots with bondo.
-Sand Bondo flush.
-Scuff cupped inserts and small divots and fill with 2PAC.
-Lightly scuff PF with 800 grit to give the first coat some grip. (Scary! Is this correct?)
-Once dry, lightly scuff filled inserts and small divots with 600-800 grit also to give some grip.
-Mask holes and slots in PF.
-Bag and protect PF underside mech.
-Final wipe with naphtha and swipe with tack cloth (At local shop just before clearing).
-1st light coat of clear (At local paint shop).
-Pick up from shop (will likely be more than 24hrs later) and light sand the clear with 600 grit to flatten PF and to reveal dips.
-Scuff dips with 220 or 320 and eyedrop 2pac.
-Let dry (24hrs plus ?) and sand flat with 600
-Mask and paint.
-2nd coat clear (At local paint shop).
Does that sequence make sense?
I'm also not to certain on the grits to use in the various steps.
Maybe you can comment on that also.
Ill be using Onmi 262 as Omni 161 is apparently not avail in Canada because of VOC content legislation.
Any experience with that one?
Thanks
Quoted from Fred736:And the shooter late is also fair.
Your shooter lane looks clean, but the wood has that dark knotty spot in the one section. I'd paint this knot to make the lane look uniform.
Quoted from Fred736:I'm still debating if I will or not try to stain or shellac the wooden areas from which i have scraped off all of the old varnish.
Wipe with Naphtha and see how even it looks.
If it looks funky, hit it with a layer of Shellac to match the unsanded areas of the playfield.
Quoted from Fred736:I cant really find shellac flakes.
Canada has lots of Shellac suppliers:
http://www.woodessence.com/Dry-Shellac-P54C13.aspx
Quoted from Fred736:Drill out stripped screw holes, fill with epoxy and top with bondo.
Too much work.
Squirt in a drop of wood glue, pound in a wooden K-bob stick, snip off with flush cut wire cutters.
Quoted from Fred736:-Lightly scuff PF with 800 grit to give the first coat some grip. (Scary! Is this correct?)
It seems scary, but you sure don't want the clear to lift up every time you pull off your Frisket.
Quoted from Fred736:I'm also not to certain on the grits to use in the various steps.
You seem to have the correct grits.
It's not written in stone, so don't sweat it too much.
2PAC fills in scratches in itself wonderfully.
MINNPIN said:
WHAT IN GOD'S NAME AM I DOING WRONG? I am, once again running out of days in which to do this before cold weather, I am getting very sick of sanding this over and over and over, and I just end up with the same results. Here are some closeup pictures of the bubbles which cover my entire PF.
VID1900 said:
Could be a few things:
Playfield and 2PAC are not the same temp.
Shop or spraybooth are contaminated with silicone (like from "fisheye eliminator")
Gasket is missing from some part of the gun.
Too thick of a layer of clear and the solvent could not escape.
I have never used fisheye eliminator, but I do sand in the same booth I clear in (not immediately following, of course) -- could that be it?
Gun is new and I don't think it's missing any parts
Playfield and 2pac are in the same room and are the same temp
Too thick might be the cause. I do look at each successive pass of the sprayer, and it doesn't seem thick...then suddenly it's very thick.
Also, while you were away -- it was mentioned that the fast hardener might be too fast and that I will keep getting these results if I don't switch to the medium speed hardener. Your thoughts on this?
Thanks as always!
Quoted from MinnPin:I have never used fisheye eliminator, but I do sand in the same booth I clear in (not immediately following, of course) -- could that be it?
I'll say to start sanding outside, replace your booth plastic sheeting and wet the floor just before spraying again.
Quoted from MinnPin:Too thick might be the cause. I do look at each successive pass of the sprayer, and it doesn't seem thick...then suddenly it's very thick.
Very thick is bad because the solvent can't simply migrate to the top and escape.
Quoted from MinnPin:it was mentioned that the fast hardener might be too fast and that I will keep getting these results if I don't switch to the medium speed hardener. Your thoughts on this?
Since any decals are now deep below the clear, you could switch to a medium hardener, no problem.
-------
But all that being said, I'd like you to try a different fix, and take pictures.
Take a brand new 1/16 or 1/8" drill bit, clean it with Lacquer Thinner, then with Naphtha.
Open up the bubbles just by turning the bit by hand.
Only do the bubbles that will be seen. Skip bubbles under the pop skirts or plastics.
Vacuum up any dust.
Using a fine glass eyedropper, SLOWLY fill the bubble holes with 2PAC. Use a clean straight pin to remove any bubbles you inject by going too fast.
Allow to dry a few weeks. If you rush, the repairs won't polish at the same rate as the rest of the playfield.
Sand flat.
Buff to mirror.
Wax and put your game back together.
Quoted from vid1900:But all that being said, I'd like you to try a different fix, and take pictures.
Take a brand new 1/16 or 1/8" drill bit, clean it with Lacquer Thinner, then with Naphtha.
Open up the bubbles just by turning the bit by hand.
Only do the bubbles that will be seen. Skip bubbles under the pop skirts or plastics.
Vacuum up any dust.
Using a fine glass eyedropper, SLOWLY fill the bubble holes with 2PAC. Use a clean straight pin to remove any bubbles you inject by going too fast.
Allow to dry a few weeks. If you rush, the repairs won't polish at the same rate as the rest of the playfield.
Sand flat.
Buff to mirror.
Wax and put your game back together.
Going to be following this drill and fill procedure to a "T" this week, Mr. Vid. I have read the whole forum thirty times, but any final tips on the flat sand and buff? I believe I got some waviness to my previous sand, which was done wet with 800 grit on the recommended drywall block. Also, what is the buffing procedure? Does it involve expensive buffing equipment or can it be done with something less complicated / less expensive?
Thanks.
PS - Just re-watched Phantasm II, and for the all the time I have been posting here I am not sure why the silver ball gag & pinball did not connect for me. Oh well.
so what are you going with for fixing the holes? I have the same on my TZ, hole from screw from under the PF... high quality scan and laser color printed on decal paper?
Should the hole be filled? Any protection on the top of the decal once installed?
Never done art repair on PF before...
Quoted from MinnPin:any final tips on the flat sand and buff? I believe I got some waviness to my previous sand, which was done wet with 800 grit on the recommended drywall block.
The larger the block, the flatter the sanding.
If you have big waves, gently cut them down with 400 or 600, then move on to smaller grits.
Quoted from MinnPin:Also, what is the buffing procedure?
Quoted from MinnPin:Does it involve expensive buffing equipment or can it be done with something less complicated / less expensive?
Nope, just a cheap buffer is all you need.
Many people have a "random orbit buffer" they bought for their car, they polished all the way through the paint, and put it back in the box never to be used again. If you ask to borrow this, they will gladly give it to you free.
Quoted from hisokajp:Should the hole be filled?
I'd take the screw out of the back, gently tap any bump back level with the playfield, and fill the hole with epoxy to stabilize it.
Quoted from hisokajp:Any protection on the top of the decal once installed?
You have to clearcoat over decals or they wear off in just a few weeks.
Hi Vid,
Do you have any experience with Vallejo paint? It is easy to buy here and I am having a hard time mixing correctly with the Createx I got. That said I would not use anything that is not good!
Quoted from Fred736:I cant really find shellac flakes. I might just leave as is.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=72634&cat=1,190,42942
Quoted from tezting:Do you have any experience with Vallejo paint? It is easy to buy here and I am having a hard time mixing correctly with the Createx I got.
Sorry, I've never used it.
I might be hard to mix two different brands of paint and have them be compatible.
Vid,
Tried out the clear I just bought (Omni 262). Did the filling of cupped insert thing. Just want to report that I am amazed with the results. Up to now, it hadn't even occurred to me that my red inserts were clear (the yellowish ones are not). Just assumed that they were more or less opaque. Just barely translucent enough to illuminate when the light shun through them from underneath.
Here is a pic of one of the inserts before:
And here it is after scraping of the varnish, sanding and filling with clear:
That's my finger showing thru the insert!
Anyway, probably just run-of-the-mill result for you pros but quite cool for me.
Got me quite excited for the rest of the job.
I do have a question thought. Its now been about 3-4 days since i filled the inserts. The PF has been sitting indoors at a normal humidity and room temperature. It's dry and certainly no longer tacky. However it still seems soft. When I lightly press my fingernail into it, it leaves a mark that with time eventually disappears.
Can I expect this to harden more? Is this caused by the fact that this is a relatively thick layer of clear just taking its time to set?
I know i got my mix right because i used a graduated eye dropper to mix it since I needed very little. (4
for this clear).
Quoted from Fred736:I do have a question thought. Its now been about 3-4 days since i filled the inserts. The PF has been sitting indoors at a normal humidity and room temperature. It's dry and certainly no longer tacky. However it still seems soft. When I lightly press my fingernail into it, it leaves a mark that with time eventually disappears.
If it's thick, it could take weeks to fully harden.
But you can sand it flush and start on all your other touch ups, it just won't be hard enough to polish.
Quoted from vid1900:But you can sand it flush and start on all your other touch ups, it just won't be hard enough to polish.
Can I do my first thin coat of clear over those inserts right now? Or will that prevent the clear on the inserts from drying properly?
Quoted from vid1900:The theory of fixing Insert Ghosting is that we need to "glue" the flap of clear coat back down to the insert face. There is going to be no place for a lot of solvent evaporation, so we need a "glue" that will cure without direct exposure to air. We also want this glue to have some flexibility to it so something brittle like epoxy is out. Pro restorers have found that Isocynate Clear coat is the perfect solution.
Lately, I've been using Diamond Plate for my top coats (I restored a game for a Dupont engineer who brought me a rather generous 5 gallons of the stuff), but it seems to be too "hot" for this kind of repair.
What does work nicely is PPG Shop Line JC661 clear. You mix it in 2
You need to neatly apply the clear under the flap, and for this you will need a syringe. The JC661 is too thick to be drawn up into an Insulin syringe, so you will have to get a big horse syringe.
Using an absolutely brand new Xacto blade, cut a slit around the damage, following the edge of the insert itself.
g2.jpg
I've got lots of air pockets over inserts, and under a mylar protective sheet on Mousin around. Will this same process work for injecting something beneath mylar? And is there anything available at the local hardware store that will do the trick, eg polyurethane?
Quoted from EvanDickson:I've got lots of air pockets over inserts, and under a mylar protective sheet on Mousin around. Will this same process work for injecting something beneath mylar? And is there anything available at the local hardware store that will do the trick, eg polyurethane?
No, unfortunately nothing will glue back the Mylar. Many have tried.
Quoted from vid1900:No, unfortunately nothing will glue back the Mylar. Many have tried.
Sigh. What would you (or anyone else) advise? cut the bubbles away so the text on the inserts is visible, but tolerate the uneven surface that would result? Or tolerate the bubbles and keep the smooth-ish mylar?
If the bubbles are affecting the game play, then I would cut them out, or deflate them with the very tip of a pin.
Sys11 playfields are really tough to remove the still glued Mylar because they were made so poorly, so I'm not going to suggest you try peeling it off.
Post some pics.
Quoted from vid1900:If the bubbles are affecting the game play, then I would cut them out, or deflate them with the very tip of a pin.
Sys11 playfields are really tough to remove the still glued Mylar because they were made so poorly, so I'm not going to suggest you try peeling it off.
Post some pics.
I guess I won't really know if these are serious or not until I get it working. Maybe they won't even be noticeable when backlit.
IMG_20151015_222927929.jpgIMG_20151015_222916089.jpgIMG_20151015_222849459.jpg
Years ago, I restored an F14 Tomcat with factory Mylar. In removing the Mylar, most of the ink and clear peeled off of every insert. I ended up removing each insert, wet sanded it flat to remove any ink/clear and flatten, reglue, and use insert decals. Clearcoat with 2pac, etc. What a pita, but it turned out nice.
Quoted from EvanDickson:I guess I won't really know if these are serious or not until I get it working. Maybe they won't even be noticeable when backlit.
Don't even worry about those!
Millions of people would love to have **only** that amount of Mylar bubble.
Quoted from vid1900:Don't even worry about those!
Millions of people would love to have **only** that amount of Mylar bubble.
hehe,ok, sweeet, thanks for the advice Vid!
Quoted from vid1900:Take a freshly sharpened chisel.
Holding it vertically (not at an angle like you would normally use a chisel), scrape off the old clear coat and lettering.
Leave any fine scratches in the plastic inserts, they will give the first coat of clear some tooth.
Install your decals on top of the first coat of clear - do not stick them directly to the insert.
Maybe I missed it, so I apologize if the question has already been asked: Why not stick insert decals directly to the insert?
Quoted from Hammerhead:Maybe I missed it, so I apologize if the question has already been asked: Why not stick insert decals directly to the insert?
Usually the decals only want to stick to slick surfaces.
The rough surface fo the insert will often not hold the decal once a layer of clear is applied over the decal.
The decals also often contain the Keyline graphic, which is bigger than the insert itself. So you want the insert cleared and seamless to the playfield so the decal can bridge the gap.
What can you do about crazing on inserts? My STTNG has it pretty bad, with probably 80% of the inserts showing some kind of crazing. If you were to clear over it would they disappear, or would it only make thing worse? It's very noticeable and I can't just leave it as is.
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Sana'a
Lexington, KY
Québec, QC
