Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

5 years ago



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There are 5898 posts in this topic. You are on page 46 of 118.
#2251 2 years ago

A Brad-Point drill bit has two "wings" that are razor sharp. These wings will cleanly cut away the Clear from around the hole, without lifting the clear.

Choose a Brad Point bit that has wings just slightly larger than the threads on the screw. Always use a brand new bit; don't bite yourself in the ass by taking a shortcut here.

Warm the area with a hair dryer.

A brand new bit will easily cut away the clear, even when turned by hand.

3.jpg
brad_tip.jpg

#2252 2 years ago

The clear has been removed from the perimeter of the hole.

4.jpg

#2254 2 years ago

Now the threads do not make contact with the Clearcoat, so the screw goes in without lifting or cracking the surrounding clear.

It's quicker to drill all your holes out at the same time; while the playfield is still empty.

If it's a new CPR playfield, don't drill the dimples out, until you are sure they are correctly placed. Sometimes they are in the wrong place (production variations depending on what company did that batch of playfields), and sometimes there are extra dimples that you certainly don't want to drill (some early production playfields may have had a 2 piece wire guide, and latter ones used only a single piece).

5.jpg

#2255 2 years ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

I have been using an HVLP gun with a 1.7mm tip. I've had it set to spray a thin coat of paint but having read how much finer actual airbrushes spray, I think the larger droplet size from the bigger tip has contributed to the issue. What do you think?

I think that you probably have way too much paint deposited to ever fully dry.

Quoted from mrgregb123:

Just to confirm - I have an Iwata Eclipse CS coming in that can spray up to 2" wide. I'll obviously be using this for the airbrush portions going forward.

Much better choice.

Since you are clearing over your work anyway, always use the least amount of paint that will fully cover the area.

Quoted from mrgregb123:

Should I go back to the HVLP for clearing or will the Iwata do a better job? Thanks!

The wide spray pattern and high volume of material that comes out of the HVLP will be much better for laying out an even clearcoat.

#2256 2 years ago

for a min I was thinking ZaZa was doing his power point presentations again.

#2257 2 years ago

Hi Vid,
Looking for some advice on my WCS94. It has some insert issues which I understand are typical for WCS. I know the "right" thing to do is to send out the playfield to be repaired and cleared. Although I'd love to do that, I realistically won't have the time to tear it down and put it together in the next year and my boys want to keep enjoying it. I was going to wax and mylar the affected inserts, is there anything else you'd recommend to minimize further damage? Thanks! Lou
File Aug 12, 11 13 45 AM.jpegFile Aug 12, 11 14 56 AM.jpegFile Aug 12, 11 15 28 AM.jpegFile Aug 12, 11 16 00 AM.jpeg

#2258 2 years ago

clearcoating is the best way to keep those from chipping off. Once they raise like that. It's just a matter of time before the ball wears them down or you catch a rag or something on the edge and it chips off. If it chips into that hazy DP area, then it becomes a lot more difficult to fix. Right now it's not in the lit zone so you are good. You can either mylar it for now to keep it safe, or spray some krylon crystal clear on it to try and seal it for awhile.

#2259 2 years ago
Quoted from louvnj:

I was going to wax and mylar the affected inserts, is there anything else you'd recommend to minimize further damage?

The inserts that look like they are moving, you might try to glue them from the backside of the playfield.

The insert with the big chip in it, you should fill the chip with a few drops of 2PAC before more material chips off (or the topcoat chips off into the lit portion of the insert).

#2260 2 years ago

Vid,

I got my Iwata gun. Airbrushed my machine (about halfway done). What a difference. I remember in the past you said to sand the airbrushed paint once finished to degloss it. The finish this Iwata puts down is clearly a matte finish. It feels like 600 grit sandpaper when you rub it. It has no gloss whatsoever...is it safe to say this does not need to be sanded?

#2261 2 years ago

If it's already a very matte finish, you might be OK.

You don't really **sand** the new paint, just degloss and knock the edge off.

Like when you stencil the cab, you knock the edge off with fine sandpaper so it does not feel like a stencil job....

#2262 2 years ago

Question about pink - I'm trying to match up the pink on my target alpha. I thought there a was an opaque pink in the createx colors, but I was mistaken, unless I've missed something. Am I overthinking this? Should I just be mixing red and white until I get it right?

#2263 2 years ago

Createx may have had made the pink at some point and dropped it (like they dropped the opaque orange).

That Gottlieb pink has some purple hue to it, so it may need a little blue.

There are other airbrush paint companies like Jacquard, so if you chose another companies pink, make sure you buy some red and white of the same brand to mix it up to the proper shade.

http://www.dickblick.com/airbrush/colors/

#2264 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If it's already a very matte finish, you might be OK.
You don't really **sand** the new paint, just degloss and knock the edge off.
Like when you stencil the cab, you knock the edge off with fine sandpaper so it does not feel like a stencil job....

The amount of paint used was very little so the edge doesn't even feel raised vs. the rest of the playfield. If that and deglossing is the reason for the sanding, I think we're good. My question is, is this abnormal for the paint to end up coarse like this? It seems ideal as it gives the clear a lot of tooth but your response implied this was unusual. I laid 5 thin coats of paint, heat setting each one with a hair dryer for a minute and this was the end result. I just want to be sure I'm doing this right to avoid any issues with clearing, etc. Maybe just paranoia.

#2265 2 years ago

Quick question on the Pinbot i'm working on. On a number of my targets, the rivets holding the target and switch to the bracket are broken, anyone know off hand the bolt size and length I need to be able to replace them? I can do a trial and error, hoping someone has the info handy..

#2266 2 years ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

My question is, is this abnormal for the paint to end up coarse like this?

The "flow" of any paint is a combination of the spray tip, the humidity, the solvent evaporation time, and on and on.

Since we clear over our painting work, we rarely worry about using extenders to "smooth things out".

#2267 2 years ago
Quoted from Insane:

On a number of my targets, the rivets holding the target and switch to the bracket are broken, anyone know off hand the bolt size and length I need to be able to replace them? I can do a trial and error, hoping someone has the info handy..

Maybe not the right thread for this question, but generally the switch screws are 5-40 and the rivets are generally 1/8" diameter.

#2268 2 years ago

i figured you would have the answer. sorry for the wrong thread..

#2269 2 years ago

Hi Vid,
I have glued nearly all my inserts but one on my T2 with epoxy so they hopefully don't move so much in the future when the playfield is clear coated.
One that I got left is the banana insert in the bottom. It seems like there is not "edge" I can glue on? I would like to avoid gluing where it is visible when there is light in the insert. Could you give an advice?

#2270 2 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

One that I got left is the banana insert in the bottom. It seems like there is not "edge" I can glue on? I would like to avoid gluing where it is visible when there is light in the insert. Could you give an advice?

Use an "Emery Stick" and rough up the inside of the the insert, then epoxy the best you can to the surrounding wood.

#2271 2 years ago

Spent nearly two hours sanding today (as per my questions that were answered on p. 44). I got all of the bumps out, have a couple of spots where I will have to drop clear in to level things out. Tomorrow, per Vid's advice, I will lightly spray gray over my bad decals from late last fall and reapply them. Looking forward to getting these poorly applied decals corrected and get the final coat of clear on right this time.

Then I can brad bit my holes, re-populate the playfield and finally do my cabinet. The following link I posted in a Pinside thread regarding stencils. I realize this is a PF thread, but since I am merely offering a link to a post I made elsewhere, maybe when people get done with their PFs and are ready to do some cab work, they can pop on over to this thread and be inspired.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/anybody-make-their-own-stencils-for-cabinet-art/page/2

Response #60, about halfway down the page.

Thanks for everyone's help so far, especially Vid. You are making this elusive craft doable for everyone who is willing to put in a little time. I am sure I speak for most of the people in here when I say I don't know where we would be without Vid, Pinside and many other contributors. There is a lack of this information available online, and some of the info that is out there is shoddy garbage. This forum rules!

#2272 2 years ago

Mylar lifting.

I am sure it is the thread somewhere but I cannot find it. I have several arrow inserts than seem sunken in the PF and the mylar (that is in great shape generally) has lifted off. You can flex it up and down where it hovers over the arrows. There is no tackiness left at all. The mylar is attached fine to the whole PF. So unlike a ghosted insert, what can I do to re-adhere the mylar?

#2273 2 years ago

If the Mylar has lost it's tackiness, then you really are not going to re-adhere it again.

You can warm the inserts and push them flush from the back, but that's about it.

#2274 2 years ago

I was wondering if something could be injected to re-wet the mylar and remove the haze like is done with the ghosting earlier in the thread.

#2275 2 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

I was wondering if something could be injected to re-wet the mylar and remove the haze like is done with the ghosting earlier in the thread.

Nothing that I know of.

You certainly don't want to inject clear coat and permanently stick the Mylar to the inserts....

#2276 2 years ago

Vid,

Seeing some lifting of the clear (the layer that my automotive guy put on that fish-eyed all over the place) where frisket has been removed (next to boxing glove). Not quite as simple as removing it from an insert. What to do about this? Will the new correct layer of 2PAC nail this down or is this going to be a big problem? Chipping it and sanding it results in playfield paint coming up so that doesn't seem like an option...

20150818_213728.jpg

#2277 2 years ago

Vid - I am trying to match the playfield yellow-brown color of the wood. Do you have any tips regarding how you mix this to match? I have started with transparent sand and tried to darken it slightly with transparent dark brown. I have tried starting with an opaque white base and then added dark brown and a touch of purple. Ugh! This is a tough color to match!

What colors to you use to mix this and what are the approximate proportions? Please help!!

Thanks!

#2278 2 years ago

I just picked this up this morning. How can I clean it up safely without removing paint? What are the chances of the exposed white matching the white under the mylar afterwards? On my last restoration of a Firepower I used magic eraser and alcohol individually. Both began removing paint which I don't want this time around. After touch up I plan to clear it. All of the inserts are perfectly flush with nothing cupping so I'm happy about that.

IMG_20150819_121339.jpgIMG_20150819_121326.jpgIMG_20150819_121316.jpgIMG_20150819_121306.jpg

#2279 2 years ago
Quoted from mrgregb123:

Seeing some lifting of the clear (the layer that my automotive guy put on that fish-eyed all over the place) where frisket has been removed (next to boxing glove).

That clear did not adhere to the playfield.

Did you lightly sand the playfield to give it some tooth?

Did you completely clean with Naphtha before handing it over to be cleared?

Fish eyes can happen of course, those will get fixed in round 2.

Quoted from mrgregb123:

What to do about this? Will the new correct layer of 2PAC nail this down or is this going to be a big problem? Chipping it and sanding it results in playfield paint coming up so that doesn't seem like an option...

Give the clear a month or so to harden up and you will have to feather the edges of the clear till you get rid of the loose stuff.

Use 600 grit, a big lighted magnifier and carefully sand back to where the clear hung on.

Also hand sand those fisheyes with 400 or 600 so they are rough and ready to grab the next coat of clear.

#2280 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinterest:

Vid - I am trying to match the playfield yellow-brown color of the wood. Do you have any tips regarding how you mix this to match? I have started with transparent sand and tried to darken it slightly with transparent dark brown. I have tried starting with an opaque white base and then added dark brown and a touch of purple. Ugh! This is a tough color to match!

What colors to you use to mix this and what are the approximate proportions? Please help!!

Thanks!

I don't see an attached pic, but use different shades of Shellac until you match it up.

Don't try a "patch" of Shellac, try to shade it all one color all the way to the edge of the next color or graphic.

Shellac_shades.png

#2281 2 years ago
Quoted from sohchx:

I just picked this up this morning. How can I clean it up safely without removing paint?

As you can see, you are already losing paint. This game may have been frozen or kept in an unconditioned garage at some point.

This game is going to certainly need painting before clearcoat.

Quoted from sohchx:

On my last restoration of a Firepower I used magic eraser and alcohol individually. Both began removing paint which I don't want this time around.

When the paint is already flaky, I would expect that ME and Alcohol are going to remove some more paint.

Don't spent too much time cleaning. You are going to need that time for paining and decaling.

Quoted from sohchx:

After touch up I plan to clear it. All of the inserts are perfectly flush with nothing cupping so I'm happy about that.

That's great about the inserts, usually they are all cupped.

Start by taking 100 pics of the playfield with the plastics off.

Make note on your pics, which of the beehive plastic post locations are for tall posts and short posts. Get your replacement post from PBR as they have better castings than the ones currently from Marco.

Use an iron or hair dryer to carefully remove that Mylar - Classic Bally are usually better done with heat.

Quoted from sohchx:

What are the chances of the exposed white matching the white under the mylar afterwards?

You won't know until you get they Mylar up - post some pics.

#2282 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

When the paint is already flaky, I would expect that ME and Alcohol are going to remove some more paint.

So ME or alcohol is what I should generally be using for cleaning?

I assume ME is Methyl Ethyl Ketone, and what percentage should the alcohol be?

Naptha should only be used to pre-clean before laying down clear?

Thanks Vid!!

#2283 2 years ago

ME is Magic Eraser, alcohol should be 92% or higher.

Naptha is a great cleaner, but it won't dissolve and remove the topcoat like isopropyl alcohol will.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/19#post-1762257

#2284 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Make note on your pics, which of the beehive plastic post locations are for tall posts and short posts. Get your replacement post from PBR as they have better castings than the ones currently from Marco.

These are the types of gems I love picking up from the Vidster...I had no idea that there was a difference in mold quality!

#2285 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

That clear did not adhere to the playfield.
Did you lightly sand the playfield to give it some tooth?
Did you completely clean with Naphtha before handing it over to be cleared?

Sanded, yup. Naphta...I did. Then this idiot went and "cleaned" it with Windex before clearing it. Which I'm pretty sure was the cause of the whole-playfield fisheyeing because the areas that were tough to reach (and he probably didn't windex) had no fish-eyes.

Quoted from vid1900:

Give the clear a month or so to harden up and you will have to feather the edges of the clear till you get rid of the loose stuff.
Use 600 grit, a big lighted magnifier and carefully sand back to where the clear hung on.
Also hand sand those fisheyes with 400 or 600 so they are rough and ready to grab the next coat of clear.

It's been 4 months since that layer of clear was put on so I think it's pretty much as hard as it will get. Per your response a few months back, I used a brass brush to rough up the whole playfield (i.e. the fisheyes) so hopefully we're good there. The touchup paint is adhering really well to fish eyes areas so hopefully the clear will too.

#2286 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I don't see an attached pic, but use different shades of Shellac until you match it up.
Don't try a "patch" of Shellac, try to shade it all one color all the way to the edge of the next color or graphic.

Shellac_shades.png

You mix shellac in a white base of createx paint? That's how you color match paint to touch up the repaired holes in the playfield?

#2287 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinterest:

You mix shellac in a white base of createx paint? That's how you color match paint to touch up the repaired holes in the playfield?

I can't speak for Vid, but having just read your post and his response, I think he was referring to your mention of matching the color of the exposed wood areas. Which would have nothing to do with paint areas or areas around repaired holes.

#2288 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinterest:

You mix shellac in a white base of createx paint?

No, I would not do that.

Shellac is usually dissolved in alcohol.

#2289 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Shellac is usually dissolved in alcohol.

I prefer my Shellac in black and at 78rpm. Alcohol is option but always nice.

#2290 2 years ago

Kinda sorta off topic but then probably not.

I have decided to make it a policy that every playfield I strip down completely for a major polish and shopping will get scanned with my 4670 scanner.

That way I will always have scans for possible future use or to help out a fellow pinsider if needed.

My question concerns software. What software should I use to scan into? In the past I had a copy of Photoshop and used twain to scan them into Photoshop and then saved as .psd files. I don't have a copy of Photoshop available to me anymore.

I am concerned about maintaining actual size for the scans, and I don't want the image quality loss that usually goes along with scanning as a .jpg

Any suggestions as to a free or almost free app to scan into?

#2291 2 years ago
Quoted from Radius118:

Kinda sorta off topic but then probably not.
I have decided to make it a policy that every playfield I strip down completely for a major polish and shopping will get scanned with my 4670 scanner.
That way I will always have scans for possible future use or to help out a fellow pinsider if needed.
My question concerns software. What software should I use to scan into? In the past I had a copy of Photoshop and used twain to scan them into Photoshop and then saved as .psd files. I don't have a copy of Photoshop available to me anymore.
I am concerned about maintaining actual size for the scans, and I don't want the image quality loss that usually goes along with scanning as a .jpg
Any suggestions as to a free or almost free app to scan into?

I use Photoshop. At 600 or 1200 ppi, you're looking at a 3-6Gb image for the whole playfield, if you join them. 300Mb on average per scan, not many image applications can handle that (and some formats can't even be that large.)

#2292 2 years ago
Quoted from Radius118:

My question concerns software. What software should I use to scan into? In the past I had a copy of Photoshop and used twain to scan them into Photoshop and then saved as .psd files. I don't have a copy of Photoshop available to me anymore.

I use photoshop.

Since you obviously don't want to d/l a copy from KAT.cr , Id suggest that if you have a student or teacher of some sort somewhere in the family, you buy Photoshop Extended for $249

#2293 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Since you obviously don't want to d/l a copy from KAT.cr , Id suggest that if you have a student or teacher of some sort somewhere in the family, you buy Photoshop Extended for $249

Word of caution, beware of 'free' photoshop copies or alternatives. Scammer and malware thugs know this software is expensive and use that as a way to get into your systems.

You can try a search for old versions of LE or CS3 on disk on ebay that would work for your purposes.

#2294 2 years ago
Quoted from VacFink:

Word of caution, beware of 'free' photoshop copies or alternatives. Scammer and malware thugs know this software is expensive and use that as a way to get into your systems.

That is good advice.

If you are forced to d/l software (like the company that wrote it went under and you still have data in one of their files) make sure you choose a version that 1000s of people have used and checked for any malware.

For instance, if Adobe went under, there is a 2015 version of Photoshop on KAT.cr that has 6,000 users and 2,500 positive thumbs up. You can be reasonably sure that is a good version if 6,000 hacker kids could not find any Malware or Viri in it.

#2295 2 years ago

A stitched composite scan of a playfield would be a large file. I have the capability to scan it also so If I did for me and others in the future and archived now would a 300 dpi size setting suffice?

#2296 2 years ago

You don't have to stitch them together.

Just scan all the files with 20% overlap and put them in a single archive.

Don't use .jpg, leave them in BMP or TIFF format.

A 300dpi BMP file would be the minimum.

#2297 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You don't have to stitch them together.
Just scan all the files with 20% overlap and put them in a single archive.
Don't use .jpg, leave them in BMP or TIFF format.
A 300dpi BMP file would be the minimum.

Never said you HAD to sticth them together. I did for one of my scans, just because.

(And, for anyone trying to stitch together.. I recommend resizing them *first*.. A LOT easier and better matching..)

#2298 2 years ago

GIMP is the usual alternative for Photoshop if you need free. I haven't used it but I believe it will do most of what Photoshop does. It probably has a different user interface.

Adobe stuff is sold on a pay-per-month basis nowadays (or per year if you prefer). This is the CC or Creative Cloud edition. You can get Photoshop for $10/month which isn't a bad deal.

I use the full Adobe CC software set, it is pretty good stuff.

#2299 2 years ago

I leave them unstitched.

But if I do need to stitch them for a poster or something, I let Photoshop do it for me at full resolution.

File>Automate>Photomerge

#2300 2 years ago

Thanks guys for the scan pointers.

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