Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

5 years ago



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There are 5898 posts in this topic. You are on page 45 of 118.
#2201 2 years ago

I have a radical thought regarding clear coat. I have scoop hole on a nearly perfect Jurassic Park that only has about 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch of wood damage. Instead of carving out wood to give it some bit then cleaning it up with wood epoxy, then clear coating it. Has anyone ever tried to use clear coat with a brush on technique directly on the wood damage; and just build layer upon layer of clear coat until you have ... well in my case have 3/16 of an inch of it.

I have have not tried it, but something got me thinking. I was experimenting on some scrap wood trying to mimic typical scoop hole wear and quick wood does not seem to stick very well (so to do it properly you have to make the damage worse, so you get some bit for the wood epoxy.) But if you were to start with well worn wood, it seems then if you were to clearcoat such a worn area, then the clear would penetrate into the fibers and give you some good bite as you built up layer upon layer.

Then you could paint it near the final layers.. then clear the painted area.

Would extremely thick clear coat have the tendency to chip like wood epoxy would?

Has anyone tried this?
Any thoughts are appreciated.

#2202 2 years ago

for brush on, I use just straight up lacquer. Works great. Especially for open wood areas. Because for some reason. lacquer doesn't darken the wood like clearcoat does. When sanding grooves in older fields, i'll use a layer of lacquer to seal it up and keep the wood a lighter color that blends with the original lacquered playfield first, before shooting it with clear.

#2203 2 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

for brush on, I use just straight up lacquer. Works great. Especially for open wood areas. Because for some reason. lacquer doesn't darken the wood like clearcoat does. When sanding grooves in older fields, i'll use a layer of lacquer to seal it up and keep the wood a lighter color that blends with the original lacquered playfield first, before shooting it with clear.

What I am looking for is maximum strength, not appearance. I can paint it for appearance. My query was about the strength of building up layer upon layer of clear coat and if that would both adhere better to bare wood, and be more chip resistant to a clear coated wood epoxy.

#2204 2 years ago

lacquer is plenty strong. Every playfield from the 50's to 1988 had lacquer and some beyond that. Held up for years before getting wear.

#2205 2 years ago

I am thinking would like to redo the lacquer around the flipper area on my 1975 Gotlieb. I would sand with 400 first but what would be the proper lacquer to apply and how do I apply it without any brush strokes?

#2206 2 years ago

I'm a veteran of just a few relatively minor PF touchups and one major, new inserts and decals with some touchups and a verathane clearcoat restoration. I've got a small gameroom, and due to work commitments, maybe doing my last restoration for a while. I'm trying to decide whether to rely on skills already gained, or go for a major upgrade with this restoration, but again, it may be years before I do another one. I'm interested in opinions on whether it would be worth it to invest in the materials required to do Vid's Ulitmate restoration on this 'last' game. It's is a Target Alpha with some planking on the left side of the game, and wear spots in the red. I'm not touching up the yellow around the pops, I'm addressing that by creating some yellow mylar discs. The biggest problem I see is the discolored area between the flippers. TA PF.jpg

#2207 2 years ago

It looks like a good project.

#2208 2 years ago

Hey Vid...

You've mentioned using glass eyedroppers for fixing inserts and stated it's very important to use separate droppers for the JC660, the hardener, and I assume the mixture.

How do you recommend cleaning the eydroppers at the end? Lacquer thinner? Or do you consider them disposable?

Thank you.

#2209 2 years ago

Just squirt some Lacquer Thinner in and out of the glass ones, but don't suck up so much thinner that it goes into the rubber bulb.

Plastic eyedroppers are disposable.

#2210 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Just squirt some Lacquer Thinner in and out of the glass ones, but don't suck up so much thinner that it goes into the rubber bulb.
Plastic eyedroppers are disposable.

As always, thank you very much.

#2211 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Just squirt some Lacquer Thinner in and out of the glass ones, but don't suck up so much thinner that it goes into the rubber bulb.
Plastic eyedroppers are disposable.

Cheap too -- this is what I ordered.

amazon.com link »

#2212 2 years ago

Used your guide and did 4 touchups on this insert. One of which was gluing the flaked piece of paint back down (had artwork I wasn't able to recreate). Came out very well.

I do have to ask, why do you prefer Createx over Wicked paint? Was doing some research on airbrushing forums about my compressor, Badger Millionaire, and saw a lot of them do not care for Createx.

IMG_0051.jpg

#2213 2 years ago
Quoted from dung:

I do have to ask, why do you prefer Createx over Wicked paint?

Same company.

http://www.createxcolors.com/products/wickedcolors/index.html

#2214 2 years ago

Hi Vid,
What would you do:
- sand more
- paint it
- take it as it is now
- something else?

(Image is with naphtha)

image.jpg

#2215 2 years ago

I'd sand it.

If it does not look good with a few minutes of sanding, then paint.

#2216 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd sand it.
If it does not look good with a few minutes of sanding, then paint.

How can you tell that you should stop sanding so you don't sand to much? I think I have sanded 1 min with 150 when the picture was taken.

#2217 2 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

How can you tell that you should stop sanding so you don't sand to much? I think I have sanded 1 min with 150 when the picture was taken.

There is no exact time limit.

You don't want to make the shooter groove too deep or wide because it won't look natural.

You can, of course adjust the shooter housing, so all I can say is be careful and conservative.

#2218 2 years ago

Challenge Accepted.
Airbrush.jpg
What tipped the scales was the realization that I have a great deal of white area on this PF to practice on, as these sections will be mostly hidden under plastics. I should be able to screw up these areas to my heart's content, and never impact the look of the final product. Thanks Vid, and look for more updates of progress and misadventures...

#2219 2 years ago

Hi Vid,
Today I took the glass of the machine that I did my first clear coat on. To my surprise I could see that the once totally flat playfield was not 100% flat anymore. If I run my nail over the inserts I can fell a small edge. Like the clear has sunken over the inserts?

I am about to do another clear coat job so would like to know if I have done something wrong or if it is normal that the clear is still schrinking for a long time after its done?
The playfield rested for 30 days before I sanded and installed it again.

#2220 2 years ago

Any recommendations for the bare wood area between the flippers on Gtlb (and many other) EMs?
Thanks!!

#2221 2 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Today I took the glass of the machine that I did my first clear coat on. To my surprise I could see that the once totally flat playfield was not 100% flat anymore. If I run my nail over the inserts I can fell a small edge. Like the clear has sunken over the inserts?

The plastic has less expansion and contraction than the wood does.

#2222 2 years ago
Quoted from bobnatlanta:

Any recommendations for the bare wood area between the flippers on Gtlb (and many other) EMs?

If it's all one color, and just lighter under the flippers, you can leave it alone - that is naturally how it should look.

If it's all blotchy and discolored, use Magic Eraser and some 96% alcohol to remove the topcoat. Then mask off the painted areas and sand the wood to a single color.

You can use Shellac to darken the wood to the desired shade, and then clear coat.

#2223 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The plastic has less expansion and contraction than the wood does.

So in other words it is 100% normal? Are there anything I can do to prevent it? so it still will be flat also after some time?

#2224 2 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

So in other words it is 100% normal? Are there anything I can do to prevent it? so it still will be flat also after some time?

You can do your first coats, sand flat, let it cure for 9 months or so for maximum shrinkage/dieback.

Then do another coat on top.

You will still probably get some telegraphing of the insert edges from the wood expanding, but you will know you did the best you could.

You could also seal the back and edges of the playfield to try and stabilize the hygroscopic nature of the wood. I can't say I've ever seen any measurable difference by sealing the edges, but the theory sounds good.

#2225 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can do your first coats, sand flat, let it cure for 9 months or so for maximum shrinkage/dieback.
Then do another coat on top.
You will still probably get some telegraphing of the insert edges from the wood expanding, but you will know you did the best you could.
You could also seal the back and edges of the playfield to try and stabilize the hygroscopic nature of the wood. I can't say I've ever seen any measurable difference by sealing the edges, but the theory sounds good.

You are the best! Thank you for taking the time to answer.
I was wondering if heat would speed the process ? I could place it close to our heater, I think it is 30 degrees Celsius.

#2226 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If it's all blotchy and discolored, use Magic Eraser and some 96% alcohol to remove the topcoat. Then mask off the painted areas and sand the wood to a single color.

Blotchy it is. So I'm sanding with an ME for topcoat removal, heavier grit to get to one color, that makes sense. How do I assure that it's level with the rest of the PF? Will the shelac bring it close enough that the clear will cover any remaining minor difference, or should I clear that bare area a couple times to get it to level...or...?

Thanks Vid, you are the man!!

#2227 2 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

I was wondering if heat would speed the process ? I could place it close to our heater, I think it is 30 degrees Celsius.

Heat of course would speed the process, but too much heat could expand the wood.

Many auto shops use IR lamps.

Every piece of wood is different, so you always assume some risk by being impatient and trying to speed up the process.

#2229 2 years ago

Of course, thanks!

#2230 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd sand it.
If it does not look good with a few minutes of sanding, then paint.

There is a 3rd option. Be happy as is. Personally, I hate the painted wood look. I try like hell not to paint the wood for people. If I have to use paint, i'll use it in the area and try and blend it into the existing wood grain as much as possible. or only paint sections. Like the lighter center flame looking area, and blend in the ground in dirt from the ball entrance area.

#2231 2 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

If I have to use paint, i'll use it in the area and try and blend it into the existing wood grain as much as possible.

Exactly.

Blend in the paint so it looks like wood.

Do the stripes, light and dark, in the shooter lane nicely, and no one will ever know unless they take the glass off and put their eye right up to it.

#2232 2 years ago

Vid, can you or someone point me to a replacement for this plastic. its for a pinbot. also what is it going to take to replace..IMG-20150807-01274.jpg

#2234 2 years ago

3 or 4 screws hold the Eject Shield to the underside of the playfield.

DO NOT overtighten the screws on the replacement shield!

Light it up with a flexi LED.

#2235 2 years ago

Hi Vid,
I think this is what is called "ground in dirt" ? It is seems to be very deep. I have tried to sand it away but I really have to sand a lot to get it away (some a still there). Are there a better way to remove it? I feel like it is bad to sand so much...

Billede_09-08-15_12.03.37.jpg

Billede_09-08-15_12.03.41.jpg

#2236 2 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Hi Vid,
I think this is what is called "ground in dirt" ? It is seems to be very deep. I have tried to sand it away but I really have to sand a lot to get it away (some a still there). Are there a better way to remove it? I feel like it is bad to sand so much...

Yep, all the little scratches and chips on the balls have cut into the clear, and now black coil dust and black rubber dust have become deeply intrenched.

If you are going to put a new clearcoat on it anyway, then sand until you get all that dust out of there.

#2237 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yep, all the little scratches and chips on the balls have cut into the clear, and now black coil dust and black rubber dust have become deeply intrenched.
If you are going to put a new clearcoat on it anyway, then sand until you get all that dust out of there.

Thank you, I will keep on sanding. Just wanted to be sure I was not doing anything wrong...
But damn it is deep!
I have to paint areas that I thought was not needed, but the dirt is so deep that it is thru the paint! :-/

I have a small kind of related question:
I don't know how visible it is on the image (where the ball enters the shooter lane). But places where all the clear is worn off and maybe some wood is missing .The wood is turning real dark with naptha (should be the same as the clear right?) What can I do about it, so it blends in with the rest?

Billede_09-08-15_13.42.54.jpg

#2238 2 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

What can I do about it, so it blends in with the rest?

Sometimes it's just quicker to blend in some paint in the dark areas.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/18#post-1730160

#2239 2 years ago

that ground in dirt in the shooter lanes, sometimes goes way deeper than anyone would ever think. I've done so many playfields I tried to get it out, and can't. Well I could, but then the ball would just fall in the cabinet because the lane would be a hole.

#2240 2 years ago

Thank you.
Just want to be sure, it is not the shooterlane itself but the "edge" I have tried to mark it.
Painting that with the shooter lane would that not look weird? Would love to see an image of a similar issue fixed.

438430.jpg

#2241 2 years ago

I tried to get all the brown out of my Bobby Orr PF and made a mess. Was way too wide when I finished and looked like crap. Put some epoxy wood putty in and fixed it. I'm yet to repaint it though, I put the project on hold

IMG_20141125_214925090.jpg
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IMG_20141206_190133687.jpg
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#2242 2 years ago

Need some advice on how to fix mylar that is starting to lift and take the water slide decals with it on an Earthshaker. The original mylar removal, application of new decals, and laying down of new mylar was done before I got this playfield, so not certain of the history or process used. The lifting is on the edge of the mylar and starts at the tip of the upper flipper. Here are the pics:

20150728_134654.jpg
20150806_104356.jpg

#2243 2 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Just want to be sure, it is not the shooterlane itself but the "edge" I have tried to mark it.

The Createx paint washes off with water, so you can't "ruin" the playfied.

Touch up a little with a mixture of tan and brown paints. Allow to dry. Check your work by wiping a with Naphtha - that is how it will look when clearcoated.

Take your time and do a good match.

#2244 2 years ago

What's the best way to approach re-creating a hole that has "healed" up during a re-inking and clearing process? (with the goal of not harming the paint/clear)

I can approach the hole with a poker from the bottom side. I think we can see a TINY dot where the hole used to be. (a little off-center inside the bigger circle)

-mof

201508-Sorc-johng17.jpg

Parallel pic on the other side of the PF:
201508-Sorc-johng18.jpg

#2245 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballholder:

Need some advice on how to fix mylar that is starting to lift and take the water slide decals with it on an Earthshaker. The original mylar removal, application of new decals, and laying down of new mylar was done before I got this playfield, so not certain of the history or process used. The lifting is on the edge of the mylar and starts at the tip of the upper flipper.

That Mylar is completely **up** and has had air exposure (it is not sealed on all sides), so it won't stick down again with heat.

Carefully cut away the lifted portion. Put a new piece of Mylar over the area. Enjoy the game.

When you are ready for some adventure, remove the rest of the Mylar, re-decal and apply a real clearcoat.

#2246 2 years ago
Quoted from mof:

What's the best way to approach re-creating a hole that has "healed" up during a re-inking and clearing process? (with the goal of not harming the paint/clear)

See below.

#2247 2 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If you fear the new clear cracking, warm the area with a hair dryer, use a BRAND NEW - brad tipped drill bit to cut through the clear coat, you can use a regular drill bit once the clear is cut.

bottom up through the hole?
or make the center point clear with the poker and go top down?
-mof

#2248 2 years ago

Vid - I've been 'airbrushing' my Dr. Dude and continued to get paint that rubs off, even after thin layers, extensive air drying and heat curing. I discovered what may have been the issue and if it is, I feel stupid but it's my own fault.

I have been using an HVLP gun with a 1.7mm tip. I've had it set to spray a thin coat of paint but having read how much finer actual airbrushes spray, I think the larger droplet size from the bigger tip has contributed to the issue. What do you think?

Just to confirm - I have an Iwata Eclipse CS coming in that can spray up to 2" wide. I'll obviously be using this for the airbrush portions going forward. Should I go back to the HVLP for clearing or will the Iwata do a better job? Thanks!

#2249 2 years ago

PREVENTING THE CLEARCOAT FROM CRACKING WHEN REPOPULATING PLAYFIELDS

==========================================================

The new 2PAC clearcoat is hard and yet still is slightly flexible. It has to be hard to take on a high gloss, and resist wear, but since it comes from the auto industry, it stays flexible (that is why the paint on your car does not pop off when you press down on a panel).

As you built up your layers of clear, you probably noticed that some holes filled slightly with Clearcoat.

Any dimples on a new playfield certainly filled with Clearcoat.

1.jpg

#2250 2 years ago

As you drive in the screws, the screw threads tend to lift up or crack the Clearcoat.

That is because holes for wood screws are usually drilled just smaller than the screw shaft, letting the threads dig into the wood fibers - displacing and compressing them.

The Clearcoat on top is lifted up from this auger-like action.

2.jpg

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