(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

7 years ago



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There are 6889 posts in this topic. You are on page 41 of 138.
#2001 4 years ago
Quoted from iwantansi:

What do you use for things like switches?

Panhead Philips

#2002 4 years ago
Quoted from goldenboy232:

Hi Vid, I recently bought a nice 1976 Target Alpha. The playfield is in very good shape with one small exception (shown below). At some point in its life, someone put a post with a small rubber on it right between the flippers (presumably) to make it less likely for the ball to drain on the frequent long drops from the top of the playfield.

I'd scrape out the existing clear, down to clean wood. Put tape over the back of the hole.

Fill hole with 2PAC or epoxy.

Paint to match wood, use very dry, stiff brush to add grain (less is always better than more).

Repair graphic.

Or:

Drill out hole, plug with 1/4" Maple dowel.

Repair graphic.

#2003 4 years ago

Ok and what kind of epoxy do you recommend? Anything specific? For the graphic, I was thinking I could create a water-slide decal of a circle the right size with a black key-line and that red in the middle.

#2004 4 years ago
Quoted from goldenboy232:

Ok and what kind of epoxy do you recommend? Anything specific?

I use "Two Head" boat epoxy, but any will work.

Quoted from goldenboy232:

For the graphic, I was thinking I could create a water-slide decal of a circle the right size with a black key-line and that red in the middle.

Why not just make a larger red diamond and keep it stock looking?

#2005 4 years ago
Quoted from GoldenOreos:

well it appears i get to jump into this playfield resto madness like the rest of you finally. i just hope i don't fail at this.

Wow, that one looks like it is going to be a lot of work! good luck to you, I hope it comes out awesome!

#2006 4 years ago

Hey team. Just finished sanding down my first ckear coat. Ready to apply finals tomorrow. First 2 pics are about 6 months ago after first clear coat. Last 2 pics are today (finally got back at it) and I sanded flat using orbital air sander. Used 800 grit.

Is that grit too fine to allow adequate adhesion of final coat?
Do the pics appear as if I've sanded enough?
I did remove the paper from block sander and sanded all shiny (valleys and usually post holes) by hand to make sure I got rid of gloss.

Lastly, tomorrow. When I put on my finals coat (JC661) can I wait say 15 minutes and add another coat?
Thx

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#2007 4 years ago
Quoted from MT45:

Used 800 grit.

Is that grit too fine to allow adequate adhesion of final coat?

800 is going to be fine.

You just don't want too coarse of paper, or the clear can "shrinkback" and the sanding strokes will telegraph through, sometimes months latter.

Quoted from MT45:

I did remove the paper from block sander and sanded all shiny (valleys and usually post holes) by hand to make sure I got rid of gloss.

Good.

Quoted from MT45:

Lastly, tomorrow. If I put on a coat (JC661) can I wait say 15 mind and add another?

Sure.

Try to keep it at 3 coats; you don't want it too thick.

#2008 4 years ago

Hey Vid -
The temp is finally getting to where I can paint again here in the Pacific NW & I'm ready to get back on my High hand project. I will be laying a coat of clear 2pac down first - My concern is the raised areas where the playfield post screws have pulled the wood up. Do I just sand these flat before clearing, or??

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#2009 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

800 is going to be fine.
You just don't want too coarse of paper, or the clear can "shrinkback" and the sanding strokes will telegraph through, sometimes months latter.

Good.

Sure.
Try to keep it at 3 coats; you don't want it too thick.

Thx Vid

#2010 4 years ago
Quoted from dasvis:

My concern is the raised areas where the playfield post screws have pulled the wood up. Do I just sand these flat before clearing, or??

Use the round, plastic handle from a nut driver and pound the raised wood below the surface.

You can also use a doming set if you have one.

#2011 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Use the round, plastic handle from a nut driver and pound the raised wood below the surface.
You can also use a doming set if you have one.

Cool, ok will do. Thanks!

#2012 4 years ago

Hi Vid!
I know it's not the best option recommanded but can I buff and polished my playfield after only one week after the last clearcoat was made? I'm on a really tight schedule...
Thanks!

#2013 4 years ago
Quoted from tabrakadanak:

Hi Vid!
I know it's not the best option recommanded but can I buff and polished my playfield after only one week after the last clearcoat was made? I'm on a really tight schedule...
Thanks!

It probably won't buff out that soon.

#2014 4 years ago

Vid, any advice for removing clear coat that has ended up in all the holes of the playfield (lamp, switch, etc..). Is their an easy way to clean out this overspray?

#2015 4 years ago
Quoted from BrianZ:

Vid, any advice for removing clear coat that has ended up in all the holes of the playfield (lamp, switch, etc..). Is their an easy way to clean out this overspray?

Normally, it does not matter because so little ends up in the holes.

Light sockets= Dremel with cylinder stone installed.

Threaded Inserts - knock out and replace, or clean out with 6-32 or 8-32 tap.

#2016 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I use "Two Head" boat epoxy, but any will work.

Why not just make a larger red diamond and keep it stock looking?

I like the idea of keeping it stock looking. Will attempt that with a decal. On the epoxy, would that be strongly preferable to using something like "plastic wood" and just injecting a bit of it into the hole with a syringe or something?

#2017 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Normally, it does not matter because so little ends up in the holes.

Ha...you did not see mine. Overspray everywhere (inserts appeared to be spared). In some cases buildup was so much, it clogged/narrowed switch holes. I've been using the Dremel and goold ole sand paper where i can. Sad thing, it came back from a restorer this way.

#2018 4 years ago
Quoted from goldenboy232:

On the epoxy, would that be strongly preferable to using something like "plastic wood" and just injecting a bit of it into the hole with a syringe or something?

You can use either one you like.

#2019 4 years ago
Quoted from BrianZ:

Ha...you did not see mine. Overspray everywhere (inserts appeared to be spared). In some cases buildup was so much, it clogged/narrowed switch holes. I've been using the Dremel and goold ole sand paper where i can. Sad thing, it came back from a restorer this way.

Wow, any pics?

#2020 4 years ago

I'll see if i took any close enough. I cleaned most of it last night for several hours. White dust everywhere. I got most of it cleared, so now no obstructions; but there still is some white residue.

#2021 4 years ago
Quoted from BrianZ:

Sad thing, it came back from a restorer this way.

Seems like a lot of these bad restores lately.

#2022 4 years ago

Vid or other gurus,

I am looking at getting my first machine and I can't tell from the pictures if there is a groove or just lots of dirt on the ball travel from the shooter lane. Should any of that make me wary of buying the machine? Coming from someone with no restoration knowledge or skill set. If it is a groove does this make it basically a no go if I want a nice playing machine or can something be done to fix it?IMG_20150519_194550465.jpgIMG_20150519_194615730.jpgIMG_20150519_194558988.jpg

#2023 4 years ago

Shout out to Vid and others on this thread (Lonzo) for help in getting my BOP playfield completed and Clearcoated. I sure learned a lot. Made a few mistakes. Recovered well thanks to advice here. Had a gun clog on last clear session, had fisheyes too but was able to fix with "eyedropper" method. Well, it's finally done and I can finally put her back together and play again. My playfield did not come out perfect but it's 110% better than it was. There was some recent comments surrounding how long to wait to sand, polish and buff the last coat, so I took pics along the way. My final coats (2) were first a thin to medium coat ... then 10 minutes later as heavy as I dared go for the last one. I laid those final coats down this past Saturday (zero hour for reference in the below images, but no image of that session is provided). This means I polished/buffed and finished the payfield from "wet" to finished in just under 4 days. I used an air powered sander for all sanding (except dips and valleys were done by hand). I used a high speed drill (2,800 rpm) for all polishing. Foam pad for Novus, and Wool for Machine Glaze. Again thanks Vid for all the time and personal effort you put in here at Pinside - know that it is appreciated.

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#2024 4 years ago
Quoted from orangestorm87:

I am looking at getting my first machine and I can't tell from the pictures if there is a groove or just lots of dirt on the ball travel from the shooter lane. Should any of that make me wary of buying the machine? Coming from someone with no restoration knowledge or skill set. If it is a groove does this make it basically a no go if I want a nice playing machine or can something be done to fix it?

There does look like wear on that playfield.

Not the worst, but it's there.

-

That does not stop you from playing the machine, but it does make for a bunch of work if you are restoring it.

Think of an old Mustang auto.

Just because it is faded, dented and worn; that does not stop you from having some fun with it.

#2025 4 years ago

Hi Vid,

Wow... this thread has blown up in the past few months, so I'm sorry if this was already covered here and I haven't yet found it. I've searched Pinside for "cupped inserts" and found all kinds of other threads and ideas and opinions, but I seek the Master's Advice... and none of those mentioned my issue's particular flavor.

Anyway, I just picked up a Firepower project for cheap: the playfield is actually in really good shape with minimal wear. And of course like all Firepowers, the inserts are cupped. But many of them are also... shrunk? There is a gap between the plastic and the wood. I am concerned about how to fill it.

Not sure if this is a "leave well enough alone" deal and I should simply fill and level the inserts as they are, or if I should remove and clean and then try to re-glue them back in place...?

Also, most of the pointer inserts have gone banana: curled and raised on one or both ends, so even if I glue and clamp them down no longer proud, they will still be cupped and probably have that gap. Any advice for that situation?

Thank you!

FP_shrunk1.jpg

FP_shrunk2.jpg

#2026 4 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

And of course like all Firepowers, the inserts are cupped. But many of them are also... shrunk? There is a gap between the plastic and the wood. I am concerned about how to fill it.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/17#post-1717646

Fill the gap just like you would fill the cupping with 2PAC.

Or if you want, you can just buy new inserts and glue them in. The "starburst" style of inserts never cup like that, so although not 100% authentic, they will end your worry. I've seen reproduction Firepower playfields with all starburst inserts, so obviously many others are happy with that solution.

Quoted from goingincirclez:

Also, most of the pointer inserts have gone banana: curled and raised on one or both ends, so even if I glue and clamp them down no longer proud, they will still be cupped and probably have that gap. Any advice for that situation?

Those I would probably just replace with new inserts

http://pbresource.com/playfins.html

#2027 4 years ago

Thank you sir. I'd seen the portion you linked, but it didn't mention insert gaps relating to cupping so I didn't know if that changes the game.

I'll probably have more questions on the 2PAC process when the time comes. I have this in basement workshop which may be better than the living room I was stuck in for Space Shuttle, but I don't have a very hospitable outdoor environment so I am very concerned about fumes. Shuttle has seen hours and hours and hours of play and the Varathane has held up great... but that was a PITA and a overall spray option would be wonderful if I can get away with it.

I saw another tip where someone flattened the pointers (and I presume could do other shapes also) by using a DIY fit wooden socket base and a metal heatplate in a clamp... I might try that for kicks, but I think I'll order the inserts I can find while I still can... it already seems a couple are unobtanium.

#2028 4 years ago

I would not dick with trying to flatten banana inserts if replacements are available.

Too much headache if they decide to go back to their original shape.

Remember to do all the inserts that are next to each other at the same time. New ones won't match the old ones color wise.

Quoted from goingincirclez:

I am very concerned about fumes.

You simply can't do 2PAC in the house. Don't even think about it.

#2029 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Touch up the missing paint with some acrylic.
Glue the loose paint back down just like you would do a Ghosting repair:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/2#post-551833
Many metal posts have a washer from the factory (often lost over time) under them to spread out the pressure.
The right size washer might even hide the damage from view.
post washer.jpg (Click image to enlarge)

Vid,

About to attempt this. I looked at the other post regarding this but had a few questions.

1) Should I glue down then paint, or paint then glue? I'm worried if I glue first, and some trickles out, then i'll be painting on top of glue runoff. But then if I paint first, I have to figure out how to get glue between the new paint and the old bubbled part.

2) Several adhesives were mentioned. I picked up some of the 'plastic surgery'. Should this be ok or should I use the clear you mentioned?

Thanks for your help.

#2030 4 years ago
Quoted from DocRotCod:

Vid,
About to attempt this. I looked at the other post regarding this but had a few questions.
1) Should I glue down then paint, or paint then glue? I'm worried if I glue first, and some trickles out, then i'll be painting on top of glue runoff. But then if I paint first, I have to figure out how to get glue between the new paint and the old bubbled part.
2) Several adhesives were mentioned. I picked up some of the 'plastic surgery'. Should this be ok or should I use the clear you mentioned?
Thanks for your help.

Follow the ghosting guide.

Use the clear like it says.

It will wick under the lifted paint.

Don't paint first, or it may prevent the clear from getting under the loose paint.

#2031 4 years ago

Thought I'd post and update on my BOP. More to come on dedicated thread but I'm finally done! 3 years ago bought this off Craigs List with intentions to restore it. Took too long but with help from this thread it's finally complete!

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#2032 4 years ago
Quoted from MT45:

Thought I'd post and update on my BOP. More to come on dedicated thread but I'm finally done! 3 years ago bought this off Craigs List with intentions to restore it. Took too long but with help from this thread it's finally complete!

Congrats and beautiful job.

#2033 4 years ago

Any suggestions for cracked plastic?
I have a clear plastic overlay piece that is cracked where the support post is:
IMG_7784.JPG

Is there some kind of fix? epoxy or superglue seems like it would be visible.

#2034 4 years ago

Any solution is likely to show to some degree (depending on how close you look). Bondic is probably the best solution just because it is the easiest to work with (it doesn't harden until zapped with UV light).

#2035 4 years ago

Guys, for those interested, here is my full post on the finished Bride of Pinbot. Can't thank Vid and you all enough!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/3-years-for-my-bride-of-pinbot

#2036 4 years ago
Quoted from mark532011:

Any suggestions for cracked plastic?
I have a clear plastic overlay piece that is cracked where the support post is:
IMG_7784.JPG (Click image to enlarge)
Is there some kind of fix? epoxy or superglue seems like it would be visible.

I use super glue. Just a dab and you are good!

#2037 4 years ago

So I have next to zero experience with photoshop, etc..

My question is, when you guys are printing color decals on your color laser printers, how do you get the colors to match? Even though you should have the right color from your scan, that doesn't mean your printer will print that exact color. How is that accomplished?

I am assuming part of this is dealing with printing on either clear or white decal paper.

I guess part of my reason for asking this question is that it seems like most of the time when you buy a pre-printed decal, the colors are off.

Also, after applying your B&W or color printed decals, how are you wiping down the playfield to get any oils, etc, from your hands off the playfield prior to clearing?

Thanks,
Michael

#2038 4 years ago
Quoted from Radius118:

So I have next to zero experience with photoshop, etc..
My question is, when you guys are printing color decals on your color laser printers, how do you get the colors to match? Even though you should have the right color from your scan, that doesn't mean your printer will print that exact color. How is that accomplished?

well, I can answer part of that. I'm not a pinball restore guru- but spend a lot of time in Photoshop.

The way to ensure your print looks like what you see on your screen is to calibrate your monitor and also your printer.

So the process looks like this:
You have a device that measures your monitor output. It creates a profile
You then print out a sample. The device scans that print out, compares the color and creates another profile.

That might be overkill for most printing applications, but when I need to perfectly match colors, it's the only way to be 100% sure.

Btw- the device I use is called ColorMunki... Pretty neat little toy.

#2039 4 years ago

Hi,
I am about to do my third playfield but this is the first time where I will take of all the parts under the playfield. So have some questions about that:

- What is the must effective way to clean the back of inserts? (while still in the playfield)
- When you sand the back of the playfield and want to protect it, can I use the same 2PAC for that or is that a bad idea?

#2040 4 years ago
Quoted from lowepg:

well, I can answer part of that. I'm not a pinball restore guru- but spend a lot of time in Photoshop.
The way to ensure your print looks like what you see on your screen is to calibrate your monitor and also your printer.
So the process looks like this:
You have a device that measures your monitor output. It creates a profile
You then print out a sample. The device scans that print out, compares the color and creates another profile.
That might be overkill for most printing applications, but when I need to perfectly match colors, it's the only way to be 100% sure.
Btw- the device I use is called ColorMunki... Pretty neat little toy.

Thanks for the info, but Wow.. That's a spendy little devil at $500, assuming you are talking about the ColorMunki Design.

Is there another way?

Michael

#2041 4 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

- What is the must effective way to clean the back of inserts? (while still in the playfield)

Try canned air first, if black dust still won't budge, use cotton swab (Q-tip).

Quoted from tezting:

- When you sand the back of the playfield and want to protect it, can I use the same 2PAC for that or is that a bad idea?

Don't use anything that is a spray, because you don't want to coat the back of the inserts.

A paint roller is what I use.

#2042 4 years ago
Quoted from Radius118:

Thanks for the info, but Wow.. That's a spendy little devil at $500, assuming you are talking about the ColorMunki Design.
Is there another way?
Michael

trial and error?

Thats what I did before- but got sick of throwing away prints- remember you need to use the actual medium your trying to print to test- and that can get pricey.

My solution might be way overkill- I was printing a lot of portraits and it drives me crazy not to have skintones faithfully reproduced....

#2043 4 years ago
Quoted from Radius118:

So I have next to zero experience with photoshop, etc..
My question is, when you guys are printing color decals on your color laser printers, how do you get the colors to match? Even though you should have the right color from your scan, that doesn't mean your printer will print that exact color. How is that accomplished?
I am assuming part of this is dealing with printing on either clear or white decal paper.
I guess part of my reason for asking this question is that it seems like most of the time when you buy a pre-printed decal, the colors are off.
Also, after applying your B&W or color printed decals, how are you wiping down the playfield to get any oils, etc, from your hands off the playfield prior to clearing?
Thanks,
Michael

You can save some time by printing out colour swatches. Make them big enough to use like 1"x1". I fold up the sheet or cut out samples and hold them next to the colours I want to match. This only gets you so far as the decal white is different than the white of the paper you print on. Also if you are doing a clear decal, you have whatever white paint under it to work with. If printing on clear, I paint a piece of board stock with my white paint, print my colour swatches on a clear sheet of plastic (no need to waste an actual decal), lay the plastic onto the white painted board and compare against the thing you are trying to match.

#2044 4 years ago

OK, I think I encountered an issue that you haven't covered yet; if I miss it I apologize:

While cleaning my Firepower project with an ME brick and alcohol, it seems an excess may have puddled in a cupped & recessed insert for a time. At least that's my theory for how this happened:

Delam.jpg

Fortunately I kept my cool, as I've seen this happen on other woodworking projects. If only I'd realized the top ply on the pf is truly this thin... oh well. I carefully cleaned the rest, and when warming the inserts to remove them, the split - delamination settled back down to natural rest, almost seamlessly:

Relam.jpg

So I'm fairly confident this is not a deal-breaker, but the key issue seems to be of repair adhesive:

I need something that will bond the layers together, thin enough in viscosity to "inject" into the surrounding delaminated area... but thick enough that it doesn't cause the wood to swell any further, or dry with a bump (a "pea in the mattress stack" if you will).

Um. Yeah. So that would be what exactly... and how would I apply it?

Any ideas?

#2045 4 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

ME brick and alcoho

What % alcohol to water?

#2046 4 years ago
Quoted from Curbfeeler:

What % alcohol to water?

91% rubbing on the pf

~5% ABV in the "applicator"

#2047 4 years ago

Thank you Vid

Quoted from vid1900:

Try canned air first, if black dust still won't budge, use cotton swab (Q-tip).

Any liquid on the Q-tip? It looks like there is some kind of "dirt-coating"?

Quoted from vid1900:

Don't use anything that is a spray, because you don't want to coat the back of the inserts.
A paint roller is what I use.

What kind of coat do you recommend? I should look for the kind in an store here in Europe

#2048 4 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

91% rubbing on the pf

~5% ABV in the "applicator"

Eek, note to self to avoid letting it pool...

#2049 4 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Any liquid on the Q-tip? It looks like there is some kind of "dirt-coating"?

That black dust is powderized metal from all the solenoids.

It usually just blows out with my air compressor.

Don't use the air compressor on old playfields with loose inserts, so the inserts will go flying out into the grass.

Quoted from tezting:

What kind of coat do you recommend? I should look for the kind in an store here in Europe

Look at what was on the backside of the old playfield.

If it was Grey, then just use waterbased Grey Latex paint.

If it was clear, then just use waterbased clear **poly**.

#2050 4 years ago
Quoted from goingincirclez:

I need something that will bond the layers together, thin enough in viscosity to "inject" into the surrounding delaminated area... but thick enough that it doesn't cause the wood to swell any further, or dry with a bump (a "pea in the mattress stack" if you will).

You will need a 12" C-clamp to clamp at the center of the playfield.

Those CA glues are very thin, so you can inject them into the void.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/159188/Nexabond-2500L-Wood-Glue-1oz.aspx

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