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Bally, 1978
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Bally, 1991
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Fill the cracks with 2PAC .
The cracks in the clear coat of the shuttle can be scraped out with a razor, but you should scan the area first in case you slip and chip out the black ink. Or just scan, make a decal and scrape out the whole shuttle.
Here is a video with Tupac when he was still a background dancer for The Digital Underground:
Quoted from futurepinhead:The spot in the green to the left looks pretty straightforward.
Match your paint.
Then paint the entire section from the tip of the yellow arrow downward.
Don't try to do a little patch, or it will stand out if the greens fade at different rates.
Quoted from futurepinhead:The word on the right in the red is going to be tricky but doable.
Scan the area and make a black outline decal.
I'd Frisket around the lettering and repaint all the red and purple Then the tiny amount of white.
Put the black outline back using the decal and clear over the top to protect.
Quoted from futurepinhead:But how do I repair the bare wood and make it look close to original?
How deep is that gouge?
I can't tell from the photo.
Quoted from Lonzo:1. Do you have to clear the decals printed on laser before you put them in water.
No need.
The laser wax is waterproof.
Quoted from Lonzo:What brand of laser decal paper do you recommend?
Quoted from futurepinhead:Not deep enough to measure but deep enough to stop a fingernail when sliding across the playfield. Maybe these photos will help. It looks worse than it is, it doesn't taper down like it appears. It has one deep spot and that is very thin. It is all the way to the end of the flipper.
I'd sand and feather all the bare wood in the area.
Then lightly tone it with Shellac to match the other wood on the playfield.
Finally, fill the depression with 2PAC.
Clear the entire playfield and sand it all flat.
Quoted from jasonsmith:By the time everything is said and done how much clear is optimal to have left on the PF. I know much gets taken away finish sanding etc. If for example you've flattened out the finish and you could polish or buff how much should be left.
Hard to say for a few reasons.
Sometimes you have a new CPR playfield and most of the inserts are raised by 1mm above the playfield. So here you need to "bury" those inserts in the clear to get the whole playfield flat and you might end up with the clear being 1.5mm thick on average.
Using a digital mic, it looks like many playfields end up with 1mm of clearcoat.
Don't use too much clear, just use whatever it takes to be able to make the playfield dead flat.
Quoted from MinnPin:My first coat of clear has been drying for 6 hours or so. It doesn't look mirror shiny like the Bride of Pinbot pics above or some Funhouse ones posted recently. It looks evenly dimpled, like it has goose bumps (over all of it). Granted this is the first coat, but is that wrong or messed up?
Sounds like not enough clear was laid out for the finish to "flow".
Shoot another coat, and make sure it looks like a sheet of glass before you put the gun down.
Quoted from MinnPin:It will be about 24 hours on the nose before I can get another coat on, so presumably I have to sand, as Curbfeeler mentioned?
Yes, sand.
You want to flatten out all that wave.
Also, fill in any fisheyes or gaps that opened around inserts. Then clear.
Quoted from jasonsmith:Is it possible to trap swirl marks in between clear coats?
The clear fills in any sanding marks.
Quoted from jasonsmith:I have seen people block sand with as low as 220 between coats and I've seen recommendations as high as 1000. You would think that a properly applied clear coat would fill and translate all swirls to the current surface for clean up correct?
You may use many different grades depending on what you are trying to do.
Knock down a wave or run? 220 might be the fast route for that job.
Sand an otherwise good coat for it's final coat? 1000 would probably be good.
1000 is nice to work with if you have more touch up painting to do.
Quoted from MT45:Sand first coat flat (how long do I wait to ensure fully cured in order to sand)
If it's clogging your sandpaper, it needs more time to cure.
How accurately you mixed the hardener or any additives like Fisheye stuff will make a difference.
Quoted from UvulaBob:I got some of the 2PAC on my garage floor, and I'm not sure if my landlord will take kindly to it when we move out. Is there an easy way to remove it?
Lacquer thinner and a scraper will do a few drips.
A large area and you are not getting your deposit back.
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:You clear, then sand, then apply the decal, then more clear. You cannot sand the decal itself so the clear on top is laying on a shiny smooth plastic. Wouldn't this cause trouble in the case of a large decal?
The decal is not shiny (at least not waterslide decals), and are made to be cleared over.
Large decals are usually cut up into manageable sections.
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:I am a bit surprised that such clear coat being so active does not attack the Creatix paints at all.
That is because Createx paints are water based.
If they were solvent based, it might be an issue.
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:I have been thinking of getting a playfield printed on a flat bed printer.
Ask the sign shop for a scrap of a sign. They will always have some flawed or test panels.
Test with the exact clear you are going to shoot.
Like they always say "One good test puts 1,000 good theories to rest".
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:I do not recall what you said you use for breathing protection when you do clear, do you use a air supply system?
I use a 3M respirator listed a few pages back in the "stuff you need" (I'm on my phone or I'd look it up for you).
If you end up doing playfields for a living, you will save money using an air supply over buying $20 cartridges every 40 hours.
Quoted from dr_nybble:I know it is suggested to use a decal printing service that prints with white ink. I've seen a few sites with decal printing services and they are all very expensive per page!
You can cram A LOT of artwork on a page. You can do several pin's art, or use up extra space with Keylines for common inserts.
Quoted from dr_nybble:Is it possible to hand colour the white and then lay a decal on top with the black outline? I saw that the Molotow paint markers are available with white ink.
Sure, that is exactly what I did here with the "5000 W/ Lit":
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/3
Quoted from dr_nybble:What are the options for dealing with white text on a large coloured area? I have a Williams Gay 90's with a few of these areas. See for instance http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=989&picno=34768 with the "Change" and "100" text. My playfield is fairly worn and I think I'll be repainting it.
I'd assume that those large blue fields would need repainting, so I'd probably spray my white patches, then frisket around them and spray my blue, then remove the frisket and apply the black outline around the white.
Quoted from jwo825:Picked up my wife's dream machine this weekend and other than very minor ghosting on some inserts, this is the only playfiels flaw. Looks like it was previously played with the rollover broken and ball strikes caused paint and clear chips. The wood is not damaged at all. I'm probably a long way out from sending the playfield out to be restored. There are vinyl stickers available for this area that I may use. What would you suggest for this area first, to ensure no further damage before proceeding?
Wax it, then cover it with Mylar.
The Wax will ensure that the Mylar comes up cleanly.
Quoted from MinnPin:but this white bubbling occurred after the first coat of clear. I am not even concerned with the little bubbles scattered around the edges, but the big clusters of foamy white bubbling are ugly.
Take a sharp, pointed Xacto blade and open those bubbles up.
Using only the weight of the knife, gently spit the Xacto.
Vacuum up any dust and use an eyedropper to fill the bubble holes with 2PAC.
Quoted from MinnPin:In this second picture, I have highlighted two small divots in the playfield. These divots are all over the playfield after the first coat of clear. 600 grit and the block aren't getting me anywhere fast on leveling these out and I want to know how to get them out before I shoot another coat, and how they got there in the first place, so it doesn't happen on subsequent coats of clear. Presumably they are air bubbles? If so, how does one prevent this?
There are often divots all over any playfield.
Just take some worn, soft sandpaper on the tip of your finger and rough up the divot and surrounding playfield.
Fill with a drop of 2PAC.
When you shoot your next layer of clear, it will get leveled by the sander.
Quoted from Curbfeeler:Check post 954, Vid talks about these bubbles in decals. is this area a decal?
It could just be outgassing where the 2PAC has reacted with the old lacquer :
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/18
Mylar over it, with at least an inch of extra material wrapped around to the underside.
If you ever clear the playfield, gently sand a radius around the outhole to keep the new clear from chipping.
Closely inspect your balls for any nicks, too.
Quoted from asay:Any tips for avoiding bubbles when laying down mylar over an entire playfield?
Wax the entire playfield with Blitz so you can remove the Mylar latter.
Clean the playfield with a Tac-cloth, then roll out the Mylar.
Warm it gently with a hair dryer and use just the tip of a pin to pop any air bubbles.
Quoted from MarcelG:can the broken rollover insert be salvageable ?
Score the edge with an Xacto blade and take the broken inserts out.
Quoted from MarcelG:Can the Varathane be removed off the playfield ?
Water based can sometimes be removed, but oil based Varathane is probably on for good.
Quoted from tezting:A question on Mylar.
So I remove Mylar from pop bumpers, slingshots etc. when clear coating.
Should I add it again or is it not necessary with the amount of play it gets in home use?
I have asked a local person who has done playfields and he does not add Mylar again because he says that the amount and the quality of clear is so good that it is not necessary.
But Vid what is your recommendation?
I put Mylar back on anywhere a ball drops down from a habitrail, or places that always get destroyed (upper left chute exit on Fireball, blue knight on MM....). If there is a high wear area like a pop bumper pen, and it is difficult to wax and maintain (like under the ramp in Comet, or AFM) I'll Mylar that too.
There is no sin in using Mylar.
Just remember to wax the playfield first, before you install it, so you can remove it latter.
Quoted from TheRingMaster:Question 1: Should I worry about it? Like have the plastic degenerated from sunlight and tension in the wood and have it now become too fragile to accept? Do you have any experience from micro cracks like these bastards resulting in broken inserts?
If the micro cracks are in the plastic itself and not the clear coat, then that will give some charcter to the playfield.
If they are real cracks, then replace the insert or if inserts are unavailable, reinforce from behind.
Quoted from TheRingMaster:2: Most inserts are level with the wood but some, like in the pics in my earlier post, have these worn edges. When I slide my finger over them and inspect them I imagine the difference in level is maybe half a mm. At first I thought I should warm them and push them in/out but now I am thinking it would be best to not mess with them (like some earlier post in the thread stated, if they have not moved in 20+ years...) The clear will fill any minor "unlevelness" and if I secure them with some extra epoxy on the back I might be fine. Still new tension from new clear and all that...What do you think?
.5mm of difference will be buried in the clear, but make sure you glue on the backs.
DON'T ACCEPT LAZY WORK!
====================================
So I've been working on the road and thus not accepting much restoration work. If it can't be done in my hotel room, I don't have time to do it. I've been telling most people to find other playfield restorers, until I finally get sick of my job and quit.
I've got the screens for the Silverball Mania cabinets, so a bunch of guys want me to restore their games. SBM is a super fun game with great sound (if you've never played it, imagine Space Invaders but 3x as fast because of the smaller playfield).
So a gent drops off his SBM playfield that he just had done by a rather well know restorer from the OH/MI area. I unwrap it, the back has been repainted with a thick coat of gray paint. This is good, as unsealed playfields tend to warp towards the cleared side.
I flip it over and the front has a strange, matte finish. Duller than you would even use on an old EM.
Vid: This is the finish you requested?
Guy: They said this was "true to the era", so that's what I got.
V: Really? Did they know this game is from 1978?
G: I guess so. They said they had done SBMs before.
V: OK, as long as you are happy with the finish, I'm happy too. It looks flat and ripple free.
G: Well....I mean....I would like it more shiny....
V: Did you tell them that?
G: I did not want to really question their choices....I mean, they are the experts.
V: You are the expert on what you want, if you are the customer. You paid them, right?
G: Yes, $1100 for touch up and clear.
V: Really??
G: Yeah, it's that super clear coat that does not get any dimples.
V: Alrighty then.
So I get out a high speed buffer and hit the area under the apron. I chose that spot in case this "super clear" can't be polished, or burns or...... peels off.
Seconds later we have a spot polished out to mirror finish.
Guy: Wow, that looks kick ass like that!
Vid: Yeah, I think it deserves to be fully polished out.
G: Fnck yeah it does. THAT is what I wanted in the first place!
But his elation quickly comes to a halt as we start to look at the polished area in the light. We can see that the old playfield planking has telegraphed through the clear coat. The playfield was never fully buffed out in order to hide the planking.
G: What causes that?
V: The clear needs to be block sanded to get rid of all that planking. This playfield is not done.
G: Why didn't they finish it?
V: I don't know. I'm a pinwrench, not a mind reader.
Looking further into this playfield, I note that the touch ups are well done. Color matching is good, the wear at the top arch is expertly repaired, nice on all that.
Looking at the insert wear, we see that the paint is touched up, but the wear and chipping is not filled back in.
Of course, this means that the playfield will wear again in the same spots along the inserts, because the ball will continually fall into the valleys.
If you are going to clearcoat anyway, how hard can it be to drip some clear into those holes so they will be flush with the playfield?
On a playfield of this era, it might add 15 minutes to the job to do it right.
Look on the "A" insert under the "E" on the playfield for a hole that will chip again soon:
Of course, I saved the worst for last: The Shooter Lane.
This is so crappy, it's hard to even imagine someone took money for this kind of work.
You can see that some sanding of the high spots took place; but then they simply quit. Sealing in the dirt for all eternity.
There is even a split or void in the wood that has resulted in a hole!
Why not take 10 minutes and reinforce & fill in a hole like that? You can imagine that the clear will continue to chip around a loose sliver of wood fiber.
Vid: Did you see this shooter lane when you picked this up?
Guy: Yeah, I pointed that out as soon as I saw it.
V: And......
G: And they said that it was the best that could be done. That the one spot is simply a character in the wood; because wood is a natural material.
V: Of course wood has flaws, but mankind has been patching those flaws for 10,000 years.
This shooter lane is totally unacceptable.
It needs the crack and void filled in, it needs to be sanded back to bare wood (now made 25x harder because of the clear coat), and either cleaned up or painted to look presentable.
Click this pic, only if you have an empty stomach:
If you are paying an "expert" for an "expert restoration", demand expert work.
Don't accept lazy work.
Don't be afraid to come right out and say that you expected a better finish.
It is true, that no restorer can fix everything, even if he/she had unlimited time, but this is sad work. Especially from someone who is always bragging about their technique, "no dimple" clearcoat and dedication.
The touch up work is very well done, but the job is far from finished.
Quoted from UvulaBob:If I had an air brushed area, and a non-airbrushed area, would you recomment laying a decal across the two?
I can't think of a physical reason why not.
Quoted from UvulaBob:How do frisket and decals interact?
Frisket will pull off decals - so you will have to clear over the decals first.
Quoted from karmalord:Are there screen applicators to apply screen airbrushing?
You might be able to find old metal halftone screens used back when people drew ad copy and comics by hand, but nowadays, we use a paint program like Photoshop.
Quoted from karmalord:I have yet to find anything that addresses the screened areas on a playfield and the process for touching up those areas.
You can scan "good dots" or you can recreate them in Photoshop.
Now I open it in Photoshop because I want to print just the black dots.
I don't want to print any of the colors, just black, so I go to IMAGE>ADJUSTMENTS>BLACK & WHITE.
In the menu of BLACK & WHITE, I pull they CYAN (blue) fader all the way to the LEFT, removing all the blue information of the background.
I hit OK, so now I have just the black dots without the blue background.
Now when I print this on clear decal, I will have just the dots to apply over my freshly painted blue background.
black-white.jpgThen we would go to FILTER>PIXELATE>COLOR HALFTONE
The menu will ask for the Max Radius (that is the size of the dots), and Channels 1-4 (make 0 for black & white).
Experiment with both the Gradient and the Max Radius until you find the match for the damaged area.
Print on clear waterslide and apply.
(the jpg compression made a grid pattern into this pic, but you get the idea, lol)
Quoted from karmalord:However,I wouldn't have guessed a decal on the playfield would be the solution as the edges would hinder ball movement,or it is assumed clear coating would follow to correct any unevenness?
You use clear, waterslide decals.
They are super thin.
You clear over them.
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:Ok vid, have you ever "reconditioned" a pf versus rehabbing one? In other words, I have a decent playfield that I just want to play on without further deteriorating it's condition, although I would like to touch-up some areas that need a bit of attention.
If I touch-up areas around the inserts with glossy black paint, it'll stand out like the proverbial "sore thumb" from the other, duller blacks on the pf. Should I use a matte black instead - and does creatix paint make matte products?
I am also hoping to re-paint areas of decals on inserts that have worn away a bit, but again, don't want it to be "shiny new noticeable" versus the unpainted portions of the insert decals. The areas touched-up WILL be getting mylar placed over them.
Thanks..........!!
Once you put Mylar over your repairs, it won't matter if the orig paint was gloss or matte.
Createx is matte when it dries, but glossy after the clearcoat (or Mylar).
Quoted from goldiewag:The other area I wanted to fix is up by the pop bumpers. I circled a couple of areas in the picture below showing some kind of hardened raised resin that I have not been able to remove yet.
Take some better, close up pictures of the resin.
Was it used to repair the area, or did something melt?
Sheesh.
Quoted from goldiewag:For those holes I was thinking toothpicks and wood glue with maybe a little bondo on top. But there is also a little pinhole under the mylar, as well as a little dirt under the mylar, and I wasn't sure what the best way to approach that area would be.
Id first scan this area, so I have my backup artwork.
Then see if using a hair dryer or freezing, see if you can get that Mylar up.
Id fill the holes with epoxy and top with Bondo because it feathers so well.
Quoted from jasonsmith:So if you finish buffing and you still see sanding marks or swirls, is there a way to roughly gauge from what stage of sanding they're from. Such as 320, 400, 600, 800 etc etc. It would be nice to not go any courser than I need to go when re-sanding the finish.
Experience will soon give you "the eye", but if you were buffing, I'd try 1500 and then 2000 to tackle any strays. Try to sand at right angles to the scratch if it's a long one.
Quoted from jasonsmith:Is there a trick to spot previous sanding scratches in the current sanding layer. I find it tough to tell when I can move on to the next grade, obviously leaving scratches behind.
If hand sanding, sand each grade in the opposite direction. Any scratches "going the wrong way" are the previous grade. (like cleaning windows, outside gets up and down streaks, inside gets side to side).
If power sanding, use a flashlight and magnifier and make sure the new sanded grade looks uniform.
Quoted from Rossz:Is there a way to repair this kind of lifted insert artwork ?
Yep:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/2
That is a combo of "insert wear" and the start of "ghosting" you have there.
I'd heat it up and press them back flush with the playfield, then glue them so they don't pop up again in a few weeks.
Then follow the Ghosting repair and you should be all set.
Quoted from MinnPin:Big stupid weather related question.
I want to lay down a coat of clear or maybe two (my final coats) today. I have been trying to get all of this done before it's too late and I am stuck unable to work on my machine all winter.
It's going to be 39 degrees here today for a high. I couldn't find any information on the JC660 product sheet for temperatures of spraying 2pac. I realize colder equals longer cure time, but would I have bad results spraying in my garage at 39 degrees?
I really need to get this done before 39 becomes -9.
You risk hazing if you spray in the cold.
You need a hanging garage heater that can maintain 60 for a week or so. You also need the playfield and 2PAC to be at the same, steady temp, just like when painting cars.
Quoted from MinnPin:Man, I had decal nightmares. I didn't change the scaling and outfit that printed them didn't either, but somehow the actual water-slides aren't exactly proper sizes, even though my black and white mock-ups I did on paper, lined up perfectly.
A good trick is to scan at 300dpi, then in Photoshop create a new transparent project also at 300ppi and drop in the scan, print directly from PS or .PDF at 100% resolution. This gives PS the least chance for mucking things up, lol
Quoted from UvulaBob:Is sixty degrees a good threshold, or is that some kind of Absolute Bare-Bones Minimum That Still Probably Isn't a Good Idea?
You would have to call whoever makes your clear and ask.
PPG JC661 gives 70*F in their literature and 140*F for IR forced drying.
Quoted from tezting:Hi,
What is this called? (I have zoomed a on the image from Goldeneye) It looks like a crack.
I have seen it a couple of times, its very hard to feel with my nail but there is something?Billede 10-11-14 20.14.47.jpg 47 KB
It could just be a little fracture in the finish, or even something that fell into the finish at the factory.
Quoted from MinnPin:Now, after clearing my whole house smells faintly of that nasty clear smell.
Can the smell spread without the chemical spreading or is my house full of clear? My girl is pissed and concerned a bit for the pets.
The Cyanate does not have a smell, so the chemical company adds that hideous smell so you know if a mask is leaking.
(kind of the same way the Natural Gas company adds the sulfur smell to your gas supply - so you can smell a gas leak before your house blows up).
Are you storing any of the clothes/boots/hazmat suit in the house that you wore when you cleared?
Quoted from tezting:It looks like a fracture in the finish.
Should I just use ME/Sandpaper? Or is it not only affecting the clear and are deep into the paint?
I'd have to see a better pic, maybe with a macro lens.
Leave it alone unless you are ready to clearcoat the playfield.
Quoted from MinnPin:My furnace is right there and it was running, something which wasn't happening during previous clearing sessions, because it was warm enough that the heat wasn't on.
Maybe you have one of those HE furnaces that draws the air from the outside, and it just happens to draw on that side of the house?
Quoted from MinnPin:Final question (I hope) on clearing the PF. I did two layers of clear, sanding after each, then decals, then last night's stinky smelling layer and still on this layer - I have random air bubbles here there and everywhere.
Lets see a pic of the bubbles.
Quoted from MinnPin:ot sure on the HE furnace thing, but it spread quick and to all floors, and the furnace was definitely kicking out heat...so it's my only explanation. The concern still being could I be getting the odor without being mass poisoned?
Those HE furnaces have PVC pipe for intake and exhaust that run through the side of the house.
I don't have a poisoning answer. I'd install a charcoal furnace filter today and be done with it.
Quoted from MinnPin:In regards to the bubbles. I can see them everywhere, but had the damndest time getting the camera to pick up on them. This is the best picture I got of them, but bubbles this size (tiny) are scattered randomly over the whole PF
Pic is too crummy to see type of bubbles.
If they don't sand out, open them with an Xacto blade and fill 'em with clear.
Were the bubbles there while you were spraying?
Did they appear latter as it was drying?
Do they only appear over one color?
Do they only appear over repaired areas, or factory areas?
If you spray over another item (like a lid from a popcorn tin) do they appear?
Quoted from MinnPin:Vid,
Any idea on those bubbles?
Go over all your stuff.
Clean your mixing glass spotless, make sure your mixing spoon is spotless, your gun head tight, your sandpaper brand new, your cleaning rags new, and don't get any of your deodorant anywhere near your gear.
If you still get any bubbles, pop them before the clear sets.
Quoted from Crashnburn:I am thinking on either filling in the gouge with bondo then paint and cover with mylar or send it out to get it repaired and cleared. What do you think.
Looks like an easy repair because it's in an out of the way location.
Harder to mach color, but still doable.
Quoted from MinnPin:That might be it. I've been using a plastic mixing cup that I did get from the auto paint supply shop, but it was given to me for mixing car paint, not necessarily 2pac.
I take it there's a special type for 2pac?
It's probably OK, if it's for auto paint.
Quoted from tezting:Vid, what can I do? Should I wait for it to dry and then sand it down? If How much should I sand it?
You have to sand it anyway, so let it cure in a warm place (without poisoning your family), and then sand it normally.
If the sanding opens or removes your bubbles, Fate has smiled upon you.
If any bubbles are still there, open them up with the tip of a Xacto blade and fill them with clear.
Bubbles hidden under plastics, ramps or back loops can just be left under the clear. Don't waste your time on areas no one will ever see.
-
A week ago I asked an auto body guy with 50x more experience than I, if using Fisheye chemicals or slower catalyst would help with bubbles from too cool of an application temperature.
He says slower catalyst or some reducer added to the clear might help, but he stressed that the substrate, the clear and the air all need to be at the same temperature to start with.
He also added not to lay out crazy thick coats if you are anywhere near the lower application range of temperature .
Quoted from tezting:What grid do you think I should use? The playfield has only gotten one thick coat.
Knock it down with 400 or 600.
Try not to make thick coats.
Generally you want one thin coat, fix any problems in the art or holes around inserts that you missed, then topcoat.
Quoted from Coyote:Quick question NOT related to CC'ing!
What???!!!!?
Quoted from Coyote:Was asked by someone how to clean the underside of the playfield of the black grit/grime from years of playing. Light sanding?
Try a nylon brush and vac. See if that lifts it first.
If not, sand and seal.
Quoted from tezting:I have just looked at the playfield here 6 hours later. Now it looks like hundreds of mini "craters". So I don't think the bobbles are trapped anymore. Does it make sense?
Good, actually.
Once it is cured, sand the playfield, hand sand the craters with soft used sandpaper, fill craters with clear, put topcoat on playfield.
Quoted from tezting:When you say "fill craters with clear" you don't mean with drops right
Sand first and see where you are at.
But you may have to fill many of them with drops, because another coat might not level them out.
The pic makes them look close to the surface, so they might just sand out fine.
Quoted from goldiewag:Hi Vid,
Back again and tried to take some better pictures of this area I want to fix. It looks like someone tried to repair the pop bumper area with some kind of hardened resin/clear, but just kinda dripped it on in sections.
There's a bigger section with slightly raised resin over where the playfield was worn to wood, and a smaller section with an even higher raised almond shaped bump.
So I'm not sure how I should go about trying to remove it, i.e. sanding or some kinda chemical maybe. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.
I still don't even know what I'm looking at in those pics.
Was there some kind of depression filled by that crap, or something melted all over, or?
If you warm it with a hair dryer does it soften?
What is under it? Paint? Hole?
Is it hard enough to sand?
Quoted from LEE:I'm not sure why a fast hardener is being recommended. Hardeners are designed to work in specific temperature ranges.
The faster the hardener, the less chance it blooms the inserts (or wrinkles decals).
The usable temp range is 70-85*F, same for all three hardener speeds.
Once applied, you can use IR lamp and bake it dry for 30 mins, allow 90 mins for cooldown and buff out.
Cons:
Many Conversion Varnishes need the substrate sanded to 220 grit to have enough tooth to adhere to.
Many CVs need a vinyl "primer" between any non-catalyzed (playfield paint) and catalyzed (CV) finish.
Many CVs list a limit of 3mil thickness before risk of cracking, so leveling inserts could not be done.
Unlike 2PAC, if you sand through a layer of CV and hit the next layer over dark colors, you will see the halo.
Not as clear as 2PAC.
Not as tough as 2PAC.
Cannot be buffed to as high of a shine as 2PAC.
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Pros:
Not as toxic as 2PAC
1/2 the price of 2PAC
I was reading the temp ranges off the fast and medium hardener cans, that appear to have the same boilerplate labels. I don't have a slow to read from.
I see what you saying about the catalog - I stand very corrected!
We are kind of using the fast hardener outside of it's intended use, but my theory is, the quicker it catalyzes, the less time it has to bloom the inserts and wrinkle the decals.
I use an IR lamp maybe 2x a year on playfields.
I worry too much about inserts moving that are glued with the old heat sensitive glue they used to use.
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I do use IR lamps all the time on legs and brackets - stuff I don't have to loose sleep over, lol.
Lee is right that we are not using a product (fast hardener) for it's intended purpose, or even temperature range.
When you walk into the PPG store to buy the clear, the counter guy always says "You know this is for professional use only?", "You have the proper safety gear?", "What shop do you work at?".
It's always fun to tell them you are spraying it on a wood pinball playfield.
"We sure don't recommend this for that use.", "You should get some polyurethane across the street....", "I can tell you right now, this is going to crack....", "Wood has different expansion properties than metal", is the instant response.
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The guitar repair kid up the street is doing all UV cure finishes lately and it looks amazing. Maybe one day we will all be using that for our pins....
Quoted from Aladdin:I just read your post Vid on UV Cure.
Here's a good video to watch on how they UV Cure a Guitar.
» YouTube video
Great video!
Some of the cab shops I service have UV clearing lines and the results are amazing.
I have always wanted to take a restored playfield in and have them UV it.
Quoted from mrgregb123:Vid - two questions on touchups:
1) For tidying up the upper part of the inside of a cabinet that has some scuff marks (the part that is visible during gameplay - it's black on my machine), do you recommend airbrushing black with the Createx or is there a better approach?
That black is probably semi-gloss, so the Createx is probably too dull to match ; and Createx is not a very "tough" finish, it usually needs a topcoat.
Also, once you make the sides "nice", you will want to put some adhesive felt strips on the edges of the playfield, as any scratches will stand out like a sore thumb.
Quoted from mrgregb123:2) For inserts with small amounts of scratched white paint (eg. Dr. Dude's Dude-o-Meter), is it OK to just touch it up with white Createx between clearcoats rather than having to get a decal made (since I can't print white)?
Sure, that's OK.
Light it up from behind with a flashlight and make sure you match up the opaque-ness of it.
Quoted from mrgregb123:Maybe it is semi-gloss but it does look pretty dull. Here's a pic. What type of paint do you recommend?
I just steal whatever semi-gloss black they have at work. It does not have to be anything fancy, I think I have Rust-Olium in a 5 gallon can right now.
You are going to have to sand before you paint, or those scratches are going to really draw attention to themselves with fresh paint.
Quoted from mrgregb123:1) What do you recommend using to stuff/block the light sockets during clearcoating? I saw you said to leave old ones in for touch-ups but wasn't sure if you recommended the same for clearcoating.
I just use old #44 /555 bulbs.
They are cheap (free), and they don't fly out from the air pressure like foam plugs do.
Quoted from mrgregb123:Do you still recommend sanding System 11c machines before clearcoating? On the lower half of the playfield much of the original clear coat wore away during mylar glue removal - I had to get pretty harsh. Upper is still intact. I don't mind the labor of sanding but don't want to wear away the paint either.
If the paint is too fragile to sand, then all you can do is spray a thin coat of clear to protect and lock it down.
Don't sand any paint away.
Don't think of it as "sanding" as much as "de-glossing"
Quoted from tezting:But is it the fumes when spraying?
The fumes are very bad.
Quoted from tezting:Or if the sanding material is not full of danger?
The sanding dust of anything is bad for your lungs.
I suggest you wear your respirator when sanding playfields, cabinets (lead paint), plywood (formaldehyde).
Don't get your shop all full of dust either. Sand outside whenever possible.
Quoted from PhilGreg:I started working on a spare Power Play playfield... I was working on the shooter lane and wondering - the rest of the wood has a yellowed varnish, while I'm sanding this down to bare wood. Basically when I wipe it down with alcohol (since we can't get naphta here in Canada), this is the look it's gonna have with 2PAC?
It kinda looks right so I figure I might not have to adjust the color, but what if I did? Would I need to use wood stain or paint?
If we were sanding the flat "face" and then clearing over the freshly exposed wood, it would indeed look too bright and new.
But the shooter lane is technically "end grain" so it is more porous and thus looks darker when cleared.
Get yourself some Naphtha and you will see that 90% of the time it looks good enough.
BUT, if it did look too light, you could tone it with Shellac until it looked dark enough - just like you would do if you were darkening a ball trail in that had been sanded in the face of the playfield.
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From your picture, you are not yet done sanding.
Imagine right where the ball is ejected into the lane; that is where I can still see a little ground in dirt pattern.
Quoted from tezting:Can I use clear decal paper? I think I would not have the edge problem and it would also be easier to align correctly.
Sometimes you use white, sometimes clear.
It just depends on what you are decalling over.
Inserts might need clear, a colorful section with "photo" appearance might only show the correct colors on white.
If white decals let the white edge show, touch up with paint before clear coat.
Quoted from PhilGreg:Oh man, I overdid it... I went wide to clean up the eject marks, then I didn't like the bump I had at that spot so I corrected the line to make it straight all the way to the end.
If you go too wide, then the ball might not center itself every time in front of the shooter tip.
Quoted from PhilGreg:How long does that stuff stay airborne and toxic? I was thinking of doing it at my office after work friday so it has the time to settle and leave a nice coat all over the furniture for when people come in monday morning...
Kidding aside, I don't want to make anyone sick, does that sound like a somewhat reasonable plan?
No, it will escape into the air handler and poison the joint.
It really is too dangerous to mess with.
Quoted from PhilGreg:If not I'll just wait until christmas vacation to do it over there when no one's gonna come in for over a week.
I'd really just take it to a backyard auto body joint.
Go to your local Autozone and look on the bulletin board.
Find auto painters that work out of their garage.
Call and find someone "open" to the idea. A reluctant painter will be a sucky painter.
Remind them you want it shot flat on it's back (easy).
Work on his schedule for the lowest price. If he "cleans out his gun" at the end of an auto job, he might charge you $20.
Be sure to remind him you will be back for additional coats and additional playfields.
Quoted from PhilGreg:So lets say i do go ahead with the paint without clearing first, do i need to sand to help the paint stick? Il be using createx paint.
I cleaned the PF with alcohol and novus 2.
If there is any gloss, the paint won't stick.
You can get Omni at 100s of locations online:
or Shopline at 1000s of local PPG stores (including all these around Kewanee):
Quoted from packie1:Also I am starting a restore and need to fill some inserts with clear, what would be the best way to make a small batch to accomplish this?
Mike
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:I am concerned about ruining a large copier - will probably print the b/w with laser and the color (which are not many) at home on ink jet
Print waterslide decals the moment the copier is turned on in the morning. That way the fuser will not be hot yet.
LaserJet inks usually fade quickly on playfield decals.
Quoted from TheRingMaster:I have sanded the underside of my pf slightly to make it look brand new. Now, I want to coat it. The question is, what's best to clear it with? I'm thinking I won't like it just as hard and shiny as the top so going with the same clear would be overkill. Next I was thinking I could use some regular furniture wood clear that I just brush on to secure the fibres and sand it slightly. But I wonder.. Would this give issues? For example if the different clears would react in some nasty way if they get in contact even though the bottom would be cured way before the top is shot, and second thing, could it cause different unnecessary tensions on the top and bottom causing risk of bending the PF and/or put extra stress on the inserts? (I won't clear the back of the inserts apparently but I mean the wood) reason I ask is cause I have a good looking furniture clear left over that I used on both sides of the cab bottom and it turned out really good and looks how I want the PF underside to look.
Thanks in advance =)
Some playfields are painted gray from the factory and some are sealed with clear.
You can just use waterbased clear for the backsides, as they won't see any wear, and you don't care about it killing the color.
Tuff grey latex paint is often sold as "porch and floor" paint.
Quoted from mrgregb123:Vid, any idea what the difference is between the PPG and Omni or is it really the same thing? I imagine it must have some difference or you'd recommend the cheaper Omni first, right?
It's apparently the same stuff, the PPG rep implies. The price appears to be within $5 of each other, so if there is some secret difference, it can't be all that big.
Having 2 different brands allows PPG dealers to protect their exclusive brand stores vs. the NAPA and Paintworlds.
Kind of like how Benjamin Moore and Moorcraft are the same thing; one sold to professionals, and one sold to homeowners.
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:Thanks Vid, problem is this copier stays "on" but I imagine it is quite cool once it goes into "standby" - will give it a shot - I can't mess this fuser up if you know what I mean
Yeah, you don't want to be responsible for a $$$ service call, lol.
Quoted from ccbiggsoo7:Best way to try and repair this?
I'd fill it with 2PAC or wood epoxy and build it back up.
Luckily, the art in that area is pretty abstract, so if someone won't scan you the area, you can just sample the surrounding patterns and fill it in using Photoshop on a waterslide decal.
Quoted from PhilGreg:But my problem with my 70s bally is that I don't have that layered pattern to start with, which is why I'm wondering whether I'll try to fake it anyway.
Go ahead and try faking it (sometimes that's all you can do).
It's not permanent until you clear over it, so try.
Quoted from BigSpinner:Do you just avoid any play fields that have been messed up with enamels or do you have a way to deal with them.
Usually I'll wipe off all the enamel I can with solvent and then decal over/paint over with acrylics.
Quoted from dasvis:Carefully pulled out all 11 wire ball guides & all that now remains are the finish nails behind drops & slings. What is the best removal process for these?
Put a 3/4" piece of plywood down on the playfield to protect it, and gently pull nails up with a mini-pry or claw hammer.
If any of the nails have their heads clipped off (like on some Bally), use Vice-Grips and a 3/4" plywood.
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:Are you roughing the areas that you are painting so you have a good "grip" for the paint?
If the area can't be sanded (too flaky), then you just have to shoot your clear to lock down the remaining artwork and move along.
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:Won't painting directly onto the clear layer your sprayed down inhibit good adhesion of your new paint?
Once you spray your first layer of clear down, you lightly sand it to give any new paint some tooth.
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:I just started putting down white on the "unseen" areas covered by gi/plastics, and if I rub the white with my fingernail, it will come off???? Should I lightly sand these areas that I'm painting?
Yes, sand before putting the white down.
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:I'm not clearcoating, painting directly on the pf - will be using whole mylar over pf and worried about mylar lifting and taking paint with it??!!
Unless you clear over your touch up work, there is a chance that the Mylar could lift paint.
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:would using Rustoleum "Varathane Interior Diamond Wood Finish (Water-Based)" be an acceptable alternative for spraying over the new decals and painted areas?
No.
It is covered under the "Great Pretenders" section of the guide:
Go to your local AutoZone, look on the bulletin board and find a guy who paints cars in his garage.
Have him "clean out his gun" on your playfield (that means he will clear your playfield with the remainder of the product while doing another job - saving you big money).
Tell him you want it shot flat on it's back (saving you money).
Tell him you will have other jobs for him (you want him to be your friend).
Quoted from packie1:I have the following and was wondering if I keep sanding till these shiny spots are gone or do I fill with clear( either another spray coat or spot coats on the playfield? any suggestions would be great.
Thanks
You are doing good so far.
Take some well worn sandpaper (so the backing is soft), and with your finger or the end of pencil, rough up those depressions, dimples and holes.
This roughing up will allow the clear to have some tooth when you drip it in those holes.
Once you fill all the holes, a quick block sanding will give you a relatively flat playfield to do your finish work on.
Quoted from swanng:I had removed the semi-circular piece of mylar from around the left-hand side kicker where I screwed up and lifted the "2X" ink off of the insert. Here are some photos of that:
Yeah, the clear coat has a much harder time sticking to the slick plastic, than the wood.
Here you will need to sand a little to rough up the insert, spray a layer of clear, put a new 2X decal down, and then spray clear over the top to protect the decal.
Quoted from swanng:Now after having the PF out of the machine for several years, when I run my hand over the PF it feels like all the inserts have sunk. And in so doing, I am removing ink around the periphery of the inserts, as shown by the photos below. The black flakes are ink from around the inserts.
Use a straight edge and a flashlight and see if the inserts have truly sunk, or just the inserts have edge wear.
Quoted from swanng:I don't really want to strip entire playfield and send it out for leveling/clear coating, but I will if that is my only choice. I don't have the skills (or the time) to perform this kind of detailed cosmetic surgery.
I hate to think about having to strip the entire playfield and sending it out, but I guess I will have to if that is what you (and knowledgeable others) recommend.
There is no easy permanent solution.
You could of course just buy an adhesive decal, but it will quickly wear away (let alone deflect the ball path slightly).
You could just put the game together and play it as is. No it wont be perfect, but I'd rather you be playing an imperfect game, than have it laying around disassembled.
You could do a proper repair (my recommendation) :
1. From behind, glue down and stabilize all inserts.
2. Clean playfield and do thin coat of clear.
3. Waterslide decal 2x insert.
4. Paint chipped insert keylining with fresh black. Drip clear along chips to fill in flush.
5. Clear over and protect restoration work.
6. Block sand and buff to mirror finish.
Quoted from chrisram22:What's the best way to remove the existing worn wording on the inserts
before applying the new ones?
Take a freshly sharpened chisel.
Holding it vertically (not at an angle like you would normally use a chisel), scrape off the old clear coat and lettering.
Leave any fine scratches in the plastic inserts, they will give the first coat of clear some tooth.
Install your decals on top of the first coat of clear - do not stick them directly to the insert.
=
Every *real* hobby shop has Microset, just not the big box stores:
http://www.hobbyexpress.com/micro_set_solution_1_oz_1035192_prd1.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Microscale-Industries-Micro-Setting-Solution/dp/B0006O9K4W
Quoted from mrgregb123:I can't figure out what went wrong. Any thoughts?
I'm going to go with he had sprayed something with "fisheye preventative" previously, and now has contaminated his gun.
Because he is an experienced shooter, I'd say he would have "flooded" the playfield, had he seen it going on too thin to lay out.
You don't have to sand it all the way down, but knock it way down and shoot again.
If he has contaminated his gun with fisheye preventer, then make sure he adds it to the next coat, or it will happen again.
Quoted from PhilGreg:I'm wondering though, first thing - will the clear fill the planking so that it doesn't show up anymore or will I have to do one layer, then repaint, then some more clear to seal it all in?
If the planking is clean inside, it might fill with clear just fine.
Quoted from PhilGreg:Same question for the wear hole - should I have filled that in with putty to make it flush first? Should I try to sand the edges to make the transition smoother? Maybe I should try to paint it with a brush and then sand it somewhat flush?
Yes, level it before you paint.
Also, don't try and do a "spot" paint repair. It might fade at a different rate and stick out like a sore thumb latter.
Respray that whole red field all at once for best results.
Quoted from gripwhip:I am looking for some help with fixing these inserts. It looks like the clear coat is peeling due to heat from the insert?
Pretty easy fix as far as fixes go:
Quoted from dr_nybble:How tight should inserts be? If I put them in the holes they'll go to about 2mm above the playfield. At that point I'd have to force or tap them in with a block to flush. Expected or are they too tight?
They should be snug.
If they are too tall, even when tapped in, sand the lower lip (not the face) to make them less tall.
Quoted from swanng:My question then is, why is the ink flaking away from the keylining around the insert if the insert hasn't sunk?
Pretty normal to see "insert wear" on an old playfield.
The ink and the clear have a harder time sticking to the smooth plastic vs. the porous wood.
From the back side, use some epoxy and glue the inserts so they are not moving around.
Quoted from pinchamp:However I can only try to get them to fix it (or someone else to fix). What do you suggest can be done to repair now? Does the playfield need to be completely stripped, sanded, decals redone and cleared again or can just the area where the decals are be stripped, sanded, fixed, cleared?
It's one of those "I can't see it from here" things.
One would need a bunch of good pictures WITH THE GLASS OFF to even take a guess.
Quoted from mrgregb123:What is the proper method for cleaning the playfield before clearcoating it?
Remove Mylar
Clean with Magic Eraser
Sand with 1000 grit (gently)
vacuum
Blow with air compressor outside to clean out holes
Wipe with Naphtha
Wipe with Tack Cloth
Remember guys, don't try doing "spot" touch ups in the middle of a field of color.
Paints fade at different rates and your perfect match today may be too light in a few years.
In that blue field with stars above, I'd frisket the whole blue area and spray it all one shade of blue.
That way if it fades, it won't stand out like a sore thumb.
(yes, I understand it was an example, but I did not want anyone trying to do a repair that way, lol)
Quoted from PhilGreg:I figure the playfield is 40 years old so it's probably not going to be fading dramatically, but maybe the new paint would?
The new paint would probably fade quicker than the old paint that has already faded.
If it's pretty close, it's probably good enough - who's going to see a tiny line through a playfield glass and all the other distractions?
Quoted from TheRingMaster:IF im gonna clear it, is it sketchy to do if the old clear reacts in some unknown nasty way with the new?
I've never seen a Sega have a bad reaction.
Quoted from TheRingMaster:Need some advice here.
Since the playfield is already stripped of all the parts, I'd say there is no reason not to clear it.
Quoted from Frax:If I wanted to get a syringe and fill these inserts in, is it "safe" to mix up just enough to do that in a cup and do it in say my living room or not?
NOT.
Respirator, and outside the house!
Quoted from Frax:Also, if I wanted to touch up keylines, should I do that after he has sanded it down the first time, or after he has shot the first light layer of HIS clear? =\
Ask your guy how he wants it done.
Quoted from TheRingMaster:Me again with the ID4 field.. is it safe to warm up the inserts and push them in with a clamp etc. Im worried the old glue will get ruined if I do that..
Usually the old glue is kind of elastic and freely moves when warmed.
Directions are at the beginning of this thread.
Quoted from mrgregb123:How far down do I need to go before attempting another clear?
That's more than far enough.
Degloss those pits with some soft, used emery cloth and your finger, touch up the paint sand through, and shoot a good layer of clear.
This time have him first shoot under the apron. If the clear goes crazy, don't go further!
Quoted from mrgregb123:Also, and this applies to all decals, how do you size it in Photoshop so it's the right size when printed?
It's WAY easier to scan, because then the image is the correct size from the getgo.
But if you are taking a pic, make sure there is a ruler in the photo so you can scale the image in PS.
Quoted from mrgregb123:Since some of the inserts, especially the "2" now have virtually no clearcoat on them and your guide says not to apply waterslides without a clear layer under it, is there another way to prep the inserts without shooting them with clear?
There is no shortcut to doing decals correctly. It is best to have the same clearcoat above and below the decal.
Quoted from mrgregb123:So then repainting it would be a better bet? I assume that would cause fewer issues, if any, down the road w/o an underlying clearcoat then just adhering a waterslide to a sanded but uncleared insert?
Yes, paint has less potential pitfalls compared to decals.
Quoted from Robotoes:i'm going to be re-painting the pf. current thought is to paint over existing graphic, and make a waterslide of the stock exchange...but i'm pretty concerned this will stick out like a sore thumb.
I'd scan the stock exchange and then print black only on clear waterslide.
Frisket and repaint all the yellow field.
Replace stock exchange and red numerals.
Quoted from swanng:Is it not unusual for a restored playfield to show planking and for the touchups to become apparent several years after restoration?
Not planking so much, but when people do **spot** repairs, they often fade at different rates and then become obvious.
That is why I always tell beginners to paint all the way to the edge of the field, and not try to do spot repairs.
As far as planking, was the game kept in a garage at any point since the restoration?
Post some pictures, please.
Quoted from swanng:I can PM you with the photos, but would like to keep them out of the public domain so I don't risk exposure of the folks who performed the restoration.
I don't think the PM here allows images.
Just post them on this thread and don't mention any names or locations.
Wow, it breaks my heart to see that poor Spirit.
Am I seeing that the black touch ups are floating 1/16 above the paint on the playfield? Like a super thick layer of clear was put down, and then the touchups were performed on top?
Quoted from johnwartjr:What's the best way to level these?
If the inserts are cupped, you level them by filling them with clear:
If the inserts are sunken on one side, you warm them, press them flat with the surface of the playfield, and finally glue them with epoxy to keep them from moving again.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration
Quoted from Coyote:Vid, and those that print decals for inserts..
Any idea on printing white on transparent? i.e. Specifically, for dark inserts that have white text?
Most hobby shops have printers that can print white on transparent decal paper.
They charge you by the sheet, so make sure you print extra white inserts, in case you f up.
Quoted from Pinterest:Is a thin coat of 2-part clear thick enough to allow one to sand without punching through to the color?
Yes, the clear is very tough.
Quoted from Pinterest:What grit do you use for this?
Depends on the playfield, and what you are going to do to it next.
Painting? 800 grit.
Looking for low spots? 220 grit
Quoted from Pinterest:Hey Vid - It doesn't look like this has a driver for win 7 or win 8 - does it work with win 7 or 8?
Thanks!
For instance, in Photoshop just go to FILE>IMPORT>WIA>TWAIN>
Works without any actual driver, just what is built into windows.
I'm not a chemist, so I'll leave the long term explanations to someone who does that sort of thing.
What I do know is that if you put a dot of epoxy on the edge on an insert, you an easily chip it off.
If you put a dot of epoxy on the primed edge, you can't chip it off.
For some reason, the USA is still using Imperial sizes to this day, lol.
If you are using Frisket as your stencil, just let the weight of the Xacto knife cut the material. With a sharp knife, you probably don't have to press at all.
The good thing about decals is that until you clear coat them, they are removable.
Try one and see if it really looks any different. Post a pic of the original screening.
Remember that unless the playfield is going to be a wall hanger, you will be looking through a sheet of glass, at an angle, with plastics, and posts and lighting shadows and flashing lights......
Quoted from Coyote:The deep red insert has tinted the white ink into 'pink'. Problem is, I would have to scrape off the existing letters before applying my decal, since ever matching up the best font and position would give the new letters some 'ghosting'
I would not touch that lettering.
It looks fine.
Quoted from aveamike:i plan on clear coating a playfield and i am concerned about the temperature in ny state.
i believe that you want the temperate to be between 65 and 80 degrees to clear, and have proper ventilations.i cannot think of anyplace to do this until late spring.
or can you clear coat on lower temperatures?
You need the proper temperatures to do a good clear.
Do a search on all the people who got a bunch of gas bubbles when they tried to clear in the cold.
Buy a hanging garage heater, or wait til spring.
The less chemical cleaning products you use, the better.
Take a DAMP (not wet) cloth and simply wipe up any black dust, flipping the cloth to a clean section often.
Use a NON-CLEANER, NON-SILICONE (polymer), NON-LIQUID, paste Carnauba Wax like Blitz 1-Grand.
Super THIN coat of wax, allow to dry 20 minutes, wipe off with a soft terry cloth or inside-out sport sock.
Use a soft toothbrush to get any dried wax off the plastic posts.
Quoted from aveamike:I should fill it before the touch ups?
I would at least spray one thin layer of clear on it to lock down what looks like flaky paint.
Then you can touch up without worrying about losing that whole section.
Once you have it touched up, fill the depression with clear, you'll never be able to see there was ever a dent there.
Quoted from iwantansi:Should i be doing something to the holes before i mallet these in?
I like to drill about 1/32" deep into the playfield with a BRAND NEW DRILL BIT just a little larger than the wire or post. Then follow with the proper size drill bit for the wire size.
This way the clear does not crack from the impact of the wire being driven in.
It is best to have 2 drills, with one bit in each.
Quoted from iwantansi:Havent yet got to screwing posts in... Anything i should be doing?
Even the screw post holes are too small once the clear gets into them. So, same thing, start the hole with a larger bit, then follow with a correct size bit.
BRAND NEW DRILL BIT
BRAND NEW DRILL BIT
BRAND NEW DRILL BIT
Sounds like your old paint is not fully cured (too thick??), or did not adhere to the substrate.
Give all the details, paint brand, application method, substrate, grade of sandpaper to rough up substrate, heat cure or air dry......
Quoted from asay:I applied the frisket and messed up cutting it, so I pulled it up to try again and noticed that it was pulling paint up from the playfield.
Gotcha.
You need to shoot a thin layer of clear over old playfields so you can lock down the existing artwork - before you begin any touch ups.
Quoted from iwantansi:Just a note - I bought this playfield already clearcoated - I do not know what kind of clear was used on it nor what was done to the PF prior to the clearcoat
I got some brad tipped drill bits after trying standard bits(out of a brand new set) and its still cracking my clearcoat, albeit not as bad..
Heat the playfield up with a hair dryer and use a brand new bit, but do it by hand.
That clear looks pretty brittle.
Quoted from tabrakadanak:Hi Vid!
I just want to know how to clearcoat when the playfield is populated... I read all the thread but I'm confused on this part.
Do I put some masking tape on the holes (after removing the switches and all)? And then I "dremel" the holes?
Thanks!
You can seal the back of the playfield with anything.
Gray latex paint, water based clear - anything you've got cluttering up the garage.
Don't get clear on the backs of the inserts because it might lift off in the future due to the smooth plastic.
Just roll on your sealer with a short nap roller, upsidedown across 2 saw horses. That way the sealer won't drip into the inserts.
Quoted from TopMoose:I remember you wrote to paint the whole area, right to the edge, but how would you work around that black spatter graphic?
I'd scan it, paint the blue field, then apply a black decal of the splatter.
Quoted from TopMoose:Probably paint each color in turn (blue, red, black, white) and then replace the "1000" with a decal?
Exactly!
Quoted from TopMoose:Cool. Would it be best to make a decal of the whole circle or just the part adjacent to the blue that gets re-painted (maybe one fourth of the whole spatter).
Just the part that touches any new color.
Quoted from TopMoose:Is it safe to put a decal on those? I'll need to put a light clearcoat on before painting - will that fill in the ridges?
Drip clear to level any gouges in the playfield.
Quoted from TopMoose:Also, would you try to match the off-white color of the other bonus score backgrounds or re-paint and decal all ten to make them look consistent?
If you have the skills to match the white, then do so.
If not, you pretty much have to repaint so the new ones don't stand out like a sore thumb.
Quoted from Renouart:Hi Vid, I am finally going to do touchups on my TAF mansion. I bought the Createx paints and got the colors to match (your suggestion of a drop of yellow in the grey really does the trick). My plan is to do paint touchups then cover with mylar after a thorough waxing. But some of the missing detail goes down to the wood and I am worried about not having a flat surface when I put down the mylar. Below are the most worn spots, before the touchups. Will the mylar bubble due to the depression? Should I fill first and then paint? I only just started touchups, so nothing really lost. And what should I fill in with? Thanks for your help.
Most people fill in depressions with clearcoat.
You could also use Bondo, as it feathers out very well.
Quoted from mrgregb123:Vid - Quick question on paint mixing. Earlier in the thread you mentioned bright orange being tough to mix and I agree. You said to add flourescent orange to 'standard orange' to do the trick. I got the flourescent orange in Createx but there is no 'standard orange' in Createx airbrush colors. Their opaque line has "Coral" which is as close to orange as I could find - is that what you meant?
Yeah, I don't see the Orange on the Createx web site anymore.
Might have to use Jacquard "bright orange" until Createx updates their line?
Quoted from TopMoose:I'm having a hard time sourcing the 3M plastic primer - I've checked Lowes, Home Depot, Menards, Harbor Freight, True Value and Amazon but no one has it. Do you use AP596?
Somewhere earlier in the thread, people found it at Grainger.
I'm on my phone and it's too hard to search.
Quoted from flashinstinct:Hey Vid,
I'm about to clearcoat my second playfield (WCS). Just got one question in regards to the rollover buttons (the red stars on the playfield). I'm wondering what to do in this instance. The clear will go in the holes but the switches are already a tight fit. Is it "ok" to sand down the inside of the red plastic sleeve afterwards or will it promote the clearcoat to flake and crack after a while? Or should I sand them down before? Or another option?
Rough up the plastic top surface, so the clear really has some tooth.
Try to find something to plug the holes. On Star-rollovers, you just put the old stars in upsidedown. For regular rollovers, you might stack up washers capped with blue painters tape.
I did the washer stack on Fireball last year - I'll try and find pics.
Quoted from TopMoose:To replace the black outlines around the inserts, do you recommend decals or paint?
Water Slide decals for sure.
Quoted from TopMoose:Any advice on removing the wire ball guides? Is it as easy as gently rocking them out with a pair of pliers?
Rock them a little bit do elongate the holes slightly.
Put an old credit card down to protect the playfield and use a mini-prybar to lift.
Be careful if the wires have a barb on them, as the barb approaches the surface. Elongate the hole a little more if necessary.
656722-pry.jpgQuoted from indy5mike:remove them and put them in upside down on the top and pull them out right after I spray clear or should I tape of the entire rollover insert?
Remove them and put them in upside down.
I saw one restorer who made some silicone plugs that he molded from black 100% house caulk.
Either way, that will save you mega time in clean up latter.
Quoted from goldenboy232:Question: Why not just remove the entire star assembly (the white star and the red outer part) when doing this and then put the whole insert back in? Just curious -- I'm sure there's a good reason.
You certainly could do that if you wanted to.
Just glue it in flush with the finished playfield.
Probably too much work for me on an everyday basis, but I've certainly replaced many cracked starrollovers in otherwise finished playfields.
You will need to score through the clear on the topside of the insert.
Then gently heat both sides.
Then using a "deep well" socket from a socket set, gently push the old insert up and out of the playfield.
Between the Metric and Standard sockets, you will find one that fits the insert almost exactly.
Quoted from ShootForSlrValue:I tried utilizing the flour and alcohol method with moderate success.
Make sure the Isopropyl is 94% or higher. The 70% crap is 1/3 water.
Quoted from ShootForSlrValue:However, no matter how slow I went, I still managed to lose a good bit of the decal art.
Unfortunately the paint has a much easier time sticking to the wood than the plastic inserts.
Quoted from ShootForSlrValue:. My bonehead mistake came when I just learned that the chevron inserts are difficult to find (DOH!) unless you want to pay a hefty price for the red ones that were on ebay. =]
Are they broken? If they are intact and level, don't remove them .
Quoted from ShootForSlrValue:Anyhow, the inserts and decals look pretty bad now. They aren't smooth and feel really rough to the touch. What is the next best thing I can do to get this to look better?
That's just "Williams quality".
Try one more time with high grade alcohol or Naphtha.
If worst comes to worst, remove the black text and clear from the inserts with a freshly sharpened chisel. Use the chisel at a 90* angle, not at a 15* angle like normal people use a chisel.
Quoted from chuckwurt:I know this is a playfield resto thread, but can anyone help me with a cabinet restoration? I have an artist friend that is going to re-airbrush my Big Game Cabinet. Any tips or links to other threads to help us out? Should I use the same recommended sprayer and paints that have been mentioned here? What kind of clear coat should we use? Should I use clear coat?
thanks!
Depends on how original you want the game to be as far as clear coat.
You could use a semi-gloss clear to try and make it closer to stock.
Big Game is a really simple graphic, so I'd just Frisket the cab and spray - easy peasy.
Quoted from chuckwurt:cause we are both clueless in the process.
Same as a playfield basically.
Fill lockdown holes in front with wooden dowels.
Fill any large cracks or plugs with Bondo.
Spray some clear to "lock down" and fill any loose paint.
Sand clear to give paint some tooth.
Use Frisket to mask off colors.
Spray new paints, don't make it too thick or you will see the edge.
Don't use cheap paint, or you will have to make it thick for coverage.
Use 1500 grit sandpaper to just knock the edge off of the new paint.
Clear over the top of all your colors.
Quoted from DocRotCod:Could the damage pictured below be caused by the ring removal?
Nope.
Quoted from DocRotCod:What is my best course of repair? How to I glue down the artwork that is bubbled up?
Carefully unscrew the post and take a pic of what you've got.
I always take the rings off my games for tournament use and have never had a playfield crack.
Many games have metal posts or wire lane guides with no rubber from the factory in that same position (think of super fast games like F-14).
Touch up the missing paint with some acrylic.
Glue the loose paint back down just like you would do a Ghosting repair:
Many metal posts have a washer from the factory (often lost over time) under them to spread out the pressure.
The right size washer might even hide the damage from view.
The rougher the sanding, the MORE tooth for the paint to stick.
If you see logs when sanding, the paint is not cured.
Once the paint is cured, you just want to "de-gloss" not really sand it down.
Are you leaving the playfield in a cold garage or basement? If so, take it in the warm house and let it fully cure.
Quoted from Insane:Vid, do i need to try to fill this before i touch it up?
If you are not going to clear over the entire playfield, then drip some clear to bring the depression up a bit.
Quoted from Insane:Also i know you recommend airbrushing over brush, but can you recommend a brush technique to use until i can get an airbrush and practice with it.
Thin the paint to minimize brush strokes.
Paint, sand out strokes, paint again, sand again, get tired and buy an airbrush.
That pink is going to be a nightmare to try to a spot touch up on - a really hard match.
I'd frisket off the whole pink and red stripes and airbrush the whole thing with new color.
Quoted from DocRotCod:Feeling better about things, still wish I knew for sure what happened.
At some point in your pin's history, that post was probably loose and it made a tiny fracture between the playfield and paint.
Or the post was bent and someone pulled it up too quickly out of the playfield during replacement.
Or.....
Quoted from Insane:ok, so drop in some clear to bring it up after I paint?
I'd bring it up with some clear, then paint, then if you are not going to clear coat, you will need some clear over your repair.
Quoted from Insane:The paint you recommend, should I get the opaque?
yes.
Quoted from Insane:also where can I get the frisket?
ebay.com link: 12 x 30 Clear MASKING TRANSFER FILM Frisket Airbrush
Quoted from mof:I was wondering is there a way to eye-drop the cupped inserts, and NOT sand, and NOT clear the entire PF ?
You could try being very careful to fix it exactly to the edge.
I've filled some gouges without clearing the whole playfield, although I did sand a little bit.
Quoted from mof:Reason is: 1. I don't want to un-populate the bottom-side if I don't have to
Find a backyard auto painter from the bulletin board at Autozone.
See if he wants to work with you, leaving the backside populated.
Quoted from mof:Should I EXPECT the clear to run beyond the inserts, and require sanding, and then I'll likely want another layer on the whole PF?
Level the playfield EXACTLY.
Don't add too much. You can always add more.
You have to make sure the Frisket is pressed down tight to the playfield before spraying.
Use a metal ruler to make straight lines.
Use a lighted magnifier to carefully cut the curves.
Once you "weed out" the Frisket, press the edges back down to ensure a good mask.
Quoted from tabrakadanak:Hi Vid!
I am restoring a Black Rose, which have the diamond plate. After cleaning, resitting inserts, do I need to put a layer of clearcoat before I paint and install decals?
Thanks!
If it's worn down to wood, or flaky, or planked, you should lock it all down with a thin clear.
Quoted from mark532011:The table surface is in good shape but when I look close, the paint looks almost like fish scales (its not as visible due to the flash but see area around the "7") is that what you mean by "flaking?"
and it is almost everywhere that was not protected by plastic sheet. What do you do? some kind of penetrating sealant?
Nice pic that clearly shows the problem!
That looks like the usual "planking" and "ball swirl".
Sometimes a game is stored in a unconditioned air space like a garage and if the playfield freezes, that can happen.
Scan the area first, as planked paint can chip off easily.
Then see if it will Magic Eraser:
If not (and that pic does not look too promising) then repaint and decal:
Quoted from mark532011:2) remove mylar first (freeze and alcohol/flour technique if possible)
With an old game like Star Trip, I'd use a hair dryer or household iron to remove the mylar.
Freezing is usually better for 90s games.
Quoted from Elicash:I have read your thread about lowering raised inserts, but wondering about this issue in conjunction with the bubbling Mylar.
After 30 years, the Mylar has a memory. Rarely you can warm it up and get it to stick back down, but don't count on it.
Quoted from Elicash:Also would I want to remove the Mylar in other spots on play field due to it bubbling and being dirty / hazy? Most importantly, how hard / easy of a fix is this for a noob?
Sys11 is the hardest of all playfields to remove the Mylar from.
The playfield's "clear coat" were super crappy.
Let's see some pics.
Quoted from djblouw:I'm afraid I know the answer, but is there any way to have the repair look good without making new decals for the white text?
Try mixing up a matching blue.
With a 0000 brush, fill in the scratch.
Before it 100% dries, wipe the excess paint off - don't wipe along the scratch, wipe across it, leaving the paint only in the scratch.
This may take a few tries.
Test the "look" of your repair by using Naphtha to see how it will look once cleared.
If you just can't get it right, then proceed in the normal fashion.....
Quoted from TopMoose:1. You recommend using PPG JC660 but your photo shows JC661. There's not a major difference between the two, right?
I use them both. Looking at the data sheet, I don't see what the difference is - maybe a professional auto painter can explain.
Quoted from TopMoose:2. About how long does JH6680 medium hardener take to harden before I can sand and re-coat?
It's dry in a few hours.
You can recoat without sanding in about a 1/2 hour.
Quoted from TopMoose:4. After the final clearcoat hardens, you recommend letting it cure for a few weeks - does it have to be level?
No, it's dry in a few hours.
But it shrinks a little and "really" hardens over a few weeks.
Quoted from TopMoose:5. Do you recommend drilling out the holes before or after the clear has fully cured?
You can drill them the next day if you want to.
SL661+JC661+High+Gloss+Multi-Panel+Clear+03+15.pdf
SL660+JC660+Rapid+Spot+Panel+Clearcoat+03+15.pdfQuoted from Spyridon:My playfiled has what looks like cracking thoughout. Is this the clear that is cracked or down into the paint? What's the best way to handle this?
Are you ready to spray a new clear coat ?
If you remove the cracks, you have to re-clear.
Quoted from Pinterest:I hate to take them out if I have not found a new replacement first
Yeah, leave them in place.
Just try to glue them where there is the least mastic - it's risky biz trying to remove the mastic with an irreplaceable insert next to it.
Great pics, BTW.
Quoted from SuperPinball:Vid, what is the best way to strip down a complex playfield like TZ that has so many different parts. Do you label everything, take pictures or video different parts being removed. Any tips or tricks to making sure everything goes back the way it was.
Take about 200 pictures from every angle.
Get a box of ziplock sandwich bags, keep groups of stuff together .
Don't unsolder everything, leave small circuit boards and coils connected.
Don't save or clean old coil sleeves - for .40 cents, just replace them.
Don't save Classic Bally #555 lamp sockets, replace with #44 and avoid a lifetime of misery.
For ramps with millions of different screws, stab the screws through paper diagrams of the ramps.
On the backside of the playfield, lightly trace around mounted items with a sharp pencil.
Label the banded diode side of coil wires if you don't know the colors by heart - sure you could look them up in the manual, but just running and gunning is 100x faster.
Solder everything at once. Don't do one coil, then start mounting something else, then go back to soldering.
Don't use tiny circuit board solder for coils, use your thicker stuff.
Don't bother polishing/tumbling little screws, it is cheaper to just buy 1000 brand new ones from Boltdepot in common sizes.
Replace Gottlieb slotted screws with Philips head ones - 100x faster to drive and no chance of slipout/scratching of the playfield.
Use the clutch on your screwgun so you don't overdrive screws.
Quoted from asay:I just use a nut driver on those. Even easier than Philips head, and no chance of stripping the screw.
Most Gotts just have plain standard screws top and bottom, no hex head option.
That's why I don't ever reinstall them.
Gotts screws suck.jpgQuoted from wantdataeast:It is time someone mentioned this.
Vid, you should have a paypal donation button on your all your posts. If that violates some TOS of pinside you should tell us your paypal address and all of the people you have helped should echo it in their posts.
Expert advice like yours should be rewarded!
Yeah, I'm sure Robin would love that, LOL.
Thank you for the kind words.
Quoted from TopMoose:This is what you call "fisheyes," yes? What would you recommend? Can I fill them in with an eyedropper or will I need to sand off that last layer?
That sucks!
But it is an easy fix.
Sand the "bowl" of the fisheye with 600 grit.
Drip in fresh clear, slightly overfilling the holes (the clear shrinks back as it dries).
Sand flush and buff.
--
Don't wait too long to fill the holes, because it will drive you crazy trying to buff two different hardness stages of the clear.
I've got a playfield in the booth now that has a repair of fresh clear and a field of 6 month old clear.
As I buff, I can **just** see the difference in sheen where the two meet - it makes my brain hurt...lol.
Quoted from TopMoose:I'll probably sand it back with 600 or 800?
600 would certainly **defeat** whatever crap that caused the fisheye.
Quoted from TopMoose:and can I do that right away or do I need to wait for it to cure?
It's got to be VERY cured to buff, but you could sand or add another coat anytime.
Quoted from goldenboy232:Hi Vid, I recently bought a nice 1976 Target Alpha. The playfield is in very good shape with one small exception (shown below). At some point in its life, someone put a post with a small rubber on it right between the flippers (presumably) to make it less likely for the ball to drain on the frequent long drops from the top of the playfield.
I'd scrape out the existing clear, down to clean wood. Put tape over the back of the hole.
Fill hole with 2PAC or epoxy.
Paint to match wood, use very dry, stiff brush to add grain (less is always better than more).
Repair graphic.
Or:
Drill out hole, plug with 1/4" Maple dowel.
Repair graphic.
Quoted from goldenboy232:Ok and what kind of epoxy do you recommend? Anything specific?
I use "Two Head" boat epoxy, but any will work.
Quoted from goldenboy232:For the graphic, I was thinking I could create a water-slide decal of a circle the right size with a black key-line and that red in the middle.
Why not just make a larger red diamond and keep it stock looking?
800 is going to be fine.
You just don't want too coarse of paper, or the clear can "shrinkback" and the sanding strokes will telegraph through, sometimes months latter.
Quoted from MT45:I did remove the paper from block sander and sanded all shiny (valleys and usually post holes) by hand to make sure I got rid of gloss.
Good.
Quoted from MT45:Lastly, tomorrow. If I put on a coat (JC661) can I wait say 15 mind and add another?
Sure.
Try to keep it at 3 coats; you don't want it too thick.
Quoted from dasvis:My concern is the raised areas where the playfield post screws have pulled the wood up. Do I just sand these flat before clearing, or??
Use the round, plastic handle from a nut driver and pound the raised wood below the surface.
You can also use a doming set if you have one.
Quoted from tabrakadanak:Hi Vid!
I know it's not the best option recommanded but can I buff and polished my playfield after only one week after the last clearcoat was made? I'm on a really tight schedule...
Thanks!
It probably won't buff out that soon.
Quoted from BrianZ:Vid, any advice for removing clear coat that has ended up in all the holes of the playfield (lamp, switch, etc..). Is their an easy way to clean out this overspray?
Normally, it does not matter because so little ends up in the holes.
Light sockets= Dremel with cylinder stone installed.
Threaded Inserts - knock out and replace, or clean out with 6-32 or 8-32 tap.
Quoted from BrianZ:Ha...you did not see mine. Overspray everywhere (inserts appeared to be spared). In some cases buildup was so much, it clogged/narrowed switch holes. I've been using the Dremel and goold ole sand paper where i can. Sad thing, it came back from a restorer this way.
Wow, any pics?
Quoted from orangestorm87:I am looking at getting my first machine and I can't tell from the pictures if there is a groove or just lots of dirt on the ball travel from the shooter lane. Should any of that make me wary of buying the machine? Coming from someone with no restoration knowledge or skill set. If it is a groove does this make it basically a no go if I want a nice playing machine or can something be done to fix it?
There does look like wear on that playfield.
Not the worst, but it's there.
-
That does not stop you from playing the machine, but it does make for a bunch of work if you are restoring it.
Think of an old Mustang auto.
Just because it is faded, dented and worn; that does not stop you from having some fun with it.
Quoted from goingincirclez:And of course like all Firepowers, the inserts are cupped. But many of them are also... shrunk? There is a gap between the plastic and the wood. I am concerned about how to fill it.
Fill the gap just like you would fill the cupping with 2PAC.
Or if you want, you can just buy new inserts and glue them in. The "starburst" style of inserts never cup like that, so although not 100% authentic, they will end your worry. I've seen reproduction Firepower playfields with all starburst inserts, so obviously many others are happy with that solution.
Quoted from goingincirclez:Also, most of the pointer inserts have gone banana: curled and raised on one or both ends, so even if I glue and clamp them down no longer proud, they will still be cupped and probably have that gap. Any advice for that situation?
Those I would probably just replace with new inserts
I would not dick with trying to flatten banana inserts if replacements are available.
Too much headache if they decide to go back to their original shape.
Remember to do all the inserts that are next to each other at the same time. New ones won't match the old ones color wise.
Quoted from goingincirclez:I am very concerned about fumes.
You simply can't do 2PAC in the house. Don't even think about it.
Quoted from DocRotCod:Vid,
About to attempt this. I looked at the other post regarding this but had a few questions.
1) Should I glue down then paint, or paint then glue? I'm worried if I glue first, and some trickles out, then i'll be painting on top of glue runoff. But then if I paint first, I have to figure out how to get glue between the new paint and the old bubbled part.
2) Several adhesives were mentioned. I picked up some of the 'plastic surgery'. Should this be ok or should I use the clear you mentioned?
Thanks for your help.
Follow the ghosting guide.
Use the clear like it says.
It will wick under the lifted paint.
Don't paint first, or it may prevent the clear from getting under the loose paint.
Quoted from tezting:- What is the must effective way to clean the back of inserts? (while still in the playfield)
Try canned air first, if black dust still won't budge, use cotton swab (Q-tip).
Quoted from tezting:- When you sand the back of the playfield and want to protect it, can I use the same 2PAC for that or is that a bad idea?
Don't use anything that is a spray, because you don't want to coat the back of the inserts.
A paint roller is what I use.
Quoted from tezting:Any liquid on the Q-tip? It looks like there is some kind of "dirt-coating"?
That black dust is powderized metal from all the solenoids.
It usually just blows out with my air compressor.
Don't use the air compressor on old playfields with loose inserts, so the inserts will go flying out into the grass.
Quoted from tezting:What kind of coat do you recommend? I should look for the kind in an store here in Europe
Look at what was on the backside of the old playfield.
If it was Grey, then just use waterbased Grey Latex paint.
If it was clear, then just use waterbased clear **poly**.
Quoted from goingincirclez:I need something that will bond the layers together, thin enough in viscosity to "inject" into the surrounding delaminated area... but thick enough that it doesn't cause the wood to swell any further, or dry with a bump (a "pea in the mattress stack" if you will).
You will need a 12" C-clamp to clamp at the center of the playfield.
Those CA glues are very thin, so you can inject them into the void.
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/159188/Nexabond-2500L-Wood-Glue-1oz.aspx
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Sana'a
Walnut Creek, CA