(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

7 years ago



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There are 6877 posts in this topic. You are on page 36 of 138.
#1751 5 years ago

Maybe try a fine brass brush, like you clean IC pins with?

#1752 5 years ago

Bingo! I have one and that seems to do the trick (at least it isn't scratching off any paint!).

I guess the hardest part is that many of the pits are actually less shiny than the sanded parts - was 1000 grit too fine or will that still give the new clear plenty of tooth?

#1753 5 years ago

1000 is fine.

#1754 5 years ago

hey Vid, wondering if you could offer some advice on this section of a pf I'm working on.

i'm going to be re-painting the pf. current thought is to paint over existing graphic, and make a waterslide of the stock exchange...but i'm pretty concerned this will stick out like a sore thumb.

IMG_0313.JPG

#1755 5 years ago
Quoted from Robotoes:

i'm going to be re-painting the pf. current thought is to paint over existing graphic, and make a waterslide of the stock exchange...but i'm pretty concerned this will stick out like a sore thumb.

I'd scan the stock exchange and then print black only on clear waterslide.

Frisket and repaint all the yellow field.

Replace stock exchange and red numerals.

#1757 5 years ago

The stuff I have is not a spray, it's a water thin liquid.

Someone posted a link to it a few pages back, but I can't find it on my phone, lol.

#1758 5 years ago

Hey Vid, you said to post my retheme here. It's starting to resemble a proper playfield. Thanks again for all the advice on here, I can now say I have airbrushed, used frisket, used waterslide decals, used automotive clear, and probably a few I can't remember.IMG_0762[1].JPG

#1759 5 years ago

That's one hell of a retheme!

#1760 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

That's one hell of a retheme!

Thanks Vid, its been a lot of work !!

#1761 5 years ago
Quoted from pinball_erie:

Thanks Vid, its been a lot of work !!

Someone in Pennsylvania is a Toronto fan? What game did you start with? Are you going to be making a backglass as well?

#1762 5 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

Someone in Pennsylvania is a Toronto fan? What game did you start with? Are you going to be making a backglass as well?

Hard to believe? I played and then coached high school for 8 years. Quit that to coach my sons 9 year old team. I started with a Trio that had the playfield covered in spilled nail polish. Tried everything to remove it. My 14 year old daughter is quite the accomplished artist and she will be designing it.

#1763 5 years ago

Vid-
Is it not unusual for a restored playfield to show planking and for the touchups to become apparent several years after restoration? I had a playfield restored in 2011, and can't recall if I could see planking or the touchups when I received it back from restoration, but I can see them now. Nothing is really apparent from a distance, but when close up to the playfield, and in the proper light, it looks horrible.
Greg

#1764 5 years ago
Quoted from swanng:

Is it not unusual for a restored playfield to show planking and for the touchups to become apparent several years after restoration?

Not planking so much, but when people do **spot** repairs, they often fade at different rates and then become obvious.

That is why I always tell beginners to paint all the way to the edge of the field, and not try to do spot repairs.

As far as planking, was the game kept in a garage at any point since the restoration?

Post some pictures, please.

#1765 5 years ago

Vid-
First, the playfield has never been reinstalled in the machine. I wanted to verify long term viability before reinstalling, and when I viewed the playfield prior to my reinstallation attempt this month, I was a bit shocked by what I saw. The playfield has been kept inside the house, temperature no lower than 65 degrees, no higher than 80. Don't know about the humidity. I can PM you with the photos, but would like to keep them out of the public domain so I don't risk exposure of the folks who performed the restoration.
Greg

#1766 5 years ago
Quoted from swanng:

Vid-
First, the playfield has never been reinstalled in the machine. I wanted to verify long term viability before reinstalling, and when I viewed the playfield prior to my reinstallation attempt this month, I was a bit shocked by what I saw. The playfield has been kept inside the house, temperature no lower than 65 degrees, no higher than 80. Don't know about the humidity. I can PM you with the photos, but would like to keep them out of the public domain so I don't risk exposure of the folks who performed the restoration.
Greg

Would love to see the images. Could you not just post them without telling who did the job?

#1767 5 years ago
Quoted from swanng:

I can PM you with the photos, but would like to keep them out of the public domain so I don't risk exposure of the folks who performed the restoration.

I don't think the PM here allows images.

Just post them on this thread and don't mention any names or locations.

#1768 5 years ago

So be it. Here are a few of the many I took.

DSC00006.JPG

DSC00013.JPG

DSC00024.JPG

#1769 5 years ago

Wow, it breaks my heart to see that poor Spirit.

Am I seeing that the black touch ups are floating 1/16 above the paint on the playfield? Like a super thick layer of clear was put down, and then the touchups were performed on top?

#1770 5 years ago

Vid-
That's what it looks like. I would have to sand off the layers of clear to know for sure. Can you understand my reluctance to repopulate and install it like this? I've sent an email to the best restorer we both know to see if he thinks it can be corrected. Whether he would be willing to take this project on is another story....................
Greg

#1771 5 years ago
Quoted from swanng:

So be it. Here are a few of the many I took.

I can see the rather obvious touch ups but what is the source of the skinny little streaks everywhere, were they not there previously?

#1772 5 years ago

I'm not sure if I've chosen the right thread to post this on... But I've read through a bit of this one before, and it seemed like a good place to start.

I'm not an artist. Any time I've ever tried to be one, I've felt like the end result ended up worse than where I started. So, in the past, I've sent all my playfields out, or bought nos/repro playfields.

I'm working on what I can best describe as a 'players quality' Flintstones. I'm going to operate it. So, for once, budget is a valid concern.

The flintstones has 2 noticeable sunken inserts. They are not horrid, but I noticed them when I stripped the Playfield. Both are large round inserts, I'd guess 2.5? Inches around.

image-373.jpgimage.jpg

The last time I tried to level something like this, I ended up scrambling to find another playfield, as the ink where the PF met the insert flaked off.

What's the best way to level these?

#1773 5 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

What's the best way to level these?

If the inserts are cupped, you level them by filling them with clear:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/17#post-1717646

If the inserts are sunken on one side, you warm them, press them flat with the surface of the playfield, and finally glue them with epoxy to keep them from moving again.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration

#1774 5 years ago

I'll never understand why people want to hide people that do crap work. Even barring the planking issue, those touchups are just something awful.. sorry that happened to you man.

I've never heard of a playfield planking from clear being applied before?

#1775 5 years ago

The planking was there before the restoration began, thus prompting the restoration attempt. I know that sometimes planking and/or swirl marks will not completely fill in even after multiple applications of clear with appropriate sanding between each coat, but I suspect that minimal effort was expended to alleviate the swirl marks and planking, as is evident at this juncture with the touched up areas.

It may not have been crap work when it left the restorer. I don't recall seeing the planking when I received it back in 2011, but I wasn't looking close. The fact is, I was just happy to have it back in the condition it was in. There is no denying that 3 and one-half years later, this is the result.

My question is: can this be expected to happen regardless of restoration effort and expenditure? Or is this the result of faulty restoration technique?

Vid-this question is for you.
In your professional opinion, do you think can this be repaired, or do I have to live with what I've got?

Greg

#1776 5 years ago
Quoted from swanng:

In your professional opinion, do you think can this be repaired, or do I have to live with what I've got?

It can certainly be repaired.

#1777 5 years ago

Thanks, Vid. You wanna take a crack at it?
Just kidding, I know you don't have the time, and can't do it in a hotel room.
But if it can be repaired as you say, I know who I want to do it.
I just hope he will.
Greg

#1778 5 years ago

I'm sure he will do a fine job for you!

#1779 5 years ago

Vid, and those that print decals for inserts..

Any idea on printing white on transparent? i.e. Specifically, for dark inserts that have white text?

#1780 5 years ago

Yeah, you did get 'lucky' in that the touchups were on top of clear and not directly on the playfield.. oy! PITA, but fixable..

#1781 5 years ago

So I've heard. I'm waiting for CH to let me know if he's got the time and/or inclination to get it right this time.
It's OK, though. The machine has been apart since 2011. I can wait. Unless I die first. Just waiting on the main PF to complete the restore.
Greg

#1782 5 years ago
Quoted from Coyote:

Vid, and those that print decals for inserts..
Any idea on printing white on transparent? i.e. Specifically, for dark inserts that have white text?

Most hobby shops have printers that can print white on transparent decal paper.

They charge you by the sheet, so make sure you print extra white inserts, in case you f up.

#1783 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Usually I remove Mylar, Magic Eraser, and scrape paint off worn inserts .
Then I put down a light coat of clear.
This:
1. Locks down worn wood fibers, letting the paint adhere cleanly, without fuzz or texture.
2. Locks down existing paint - so masking tape and frisket don't lift paint and make more work for me.
3. Fills in planking and swirl. Sometimes the tiny cracks simply fill in and do not need further painting.
4. A new coat of clear highlights low spots that need to be brought up so the playfield is dead flat. A quick run of 220 grit sandpaper over the field will show much work needed. If you see shine, that spot is low!

Hi Vid - Thank you for taking time out to share your knowledge - it is appreciated.

Is a thin coat of 2-part clear thick enough to allow one to sand without punching through to the color? What grit do you use for this?

Thank you in advance for your help!

Post edited by Pinterest: Oops answered one of my own questions re-reading the thread.

#1784 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinterest:

Is a thin coat of 2-part clear thick enough to allow one to sand without punching through to the color?

Yes, the clear is very tough.

Quoted from Pinterest:

What grit do you use for this?

Depends on the playfield, and what you are going to do to it next.

Painting? 800 grit.

Looking for low spots? 220 grit

#1785 5 years ago
Quoted from swanng:

Vid-
I've sent an email to the best restorer we both know to see if he thinks it can be corrected. Whether he would be willing to take this project on is another story....................
Greg

The best restorer I know started this thread. Some that I "thought" were great restorers use "touch up" techniques which Vid has pointed out doesn't cut it years down the road.

#1786 5 years ago

Vid already let me know he's booked solid, and the professional restoration expert Vid referred me to is booked solid, also. At this point, I'm not sure who I can trust to send the playfield to to have it restored to the level of Vid's (or the professional Vid recommended) level of professionalism and expertise.
I don't want to risk another half-ass restoration attempt. Once was enough, and I learned my lesson.
The playfield is too scarce to have it screwed up by someone wanting to experiment with various restoration techniques at my expense.

Greg

#1787 5 years ago

Vid, I ment to ask a while back but like everything else in this hobby, it got sidelined then forgot. I use to use a product back in the day called "decal set" now I don't know exactly how it works but it seemed to partially desolve the clear on waterslide transfers. This has the effect of making the waterslide lay down. Would this be something worth using or too costic for existing plastic inserts?

#1788 5 years ago

Probably the same decal setting solution we still use today.

Did it smell like vinegar?

#1789 5 years ago

Pretty close. Do you still need to clear first since you essentially welding the waterslide to the insert then or should one stear clear?

#1790 5 years ago

Clear first.

You want the same coating above and below the decal.

#1791 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Every hand scanner I've tried is pretty janky.
If there is a good one out there, I have not tried it.
Get the HP 4670 from ebay for 30-75 bucks if you want my 2 cents.

Hey Vid - It doesn't look like this has a driver for win 7 or win 8 - does it work with win 7 or 8?

Thanks!

#1793 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinterest:

Hey Vid - It doesn't look like this has a driver for win 7 or win 8 - does it work with win 7 or 8?
Thanks!

For instance, in Photoshop just go to FILE>IMPORT>WIA>TWAIN>

Works without any actual driver, just what is built into windows.

#1794 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

This is where you start to separate the boys from the men in playfield restoration.
Even sanding the edge of the insert is not enough.
The final step is to prime the plastic with 3M Plastic Primer.
It goes on thin like water and dries in a few seconds.
Now when you apply the epoxy, you can't chip it off.

9.jpg 36 KB

Hi Vid - thank you for sharing your expertise here - it is invaluable information and is undoubtedly saving me from making numerous costly mistakes while restoring my T2 machine. I really appreciate the value of your experience.

I understand sanding the edge of replacement inserts to give the epoxy "tooth" to stick to, but am wondering about the use of 3M plastic primer prior to gluing inserts with epoxy.

I read in this thread that isocyanates (Crazy Glue) are not preferred over epoxy because they tend to fail eventually and so may not offer a permanent solution. When researching purchase of 3M plastic primer i see on the 3M site that this primer is isocyanate based and intended to be used with isocyanates.

My question is whether it makes sense to use this product with epoxy since doing so is in effect the placing a thin layer of isocyanate between the insert and the epoxy? Won't this layer eventually fail also?

If not - one of the things proponents of using isocyanate based glues tout is that the liquid nature of the glue allows it to more fully penetrate between the insert and wood.

I - like you - tend to trust epoxy over crazy glue - as I believe it makes a stronger bond - but wondered about this when I read about the 3M plastic primer.

Thanks for this great thread - it is appreciated!

#1795 5 years ago

I'm not a chemist, so I'll leave the long term explanations to someone who does that sort of thing.

What I do know is that if you put a dot of epoxy on the edge on an insert, you an easily chip it off.

If you put a dot of epoxy on the primed edge, you can't chip it off.

#1796 5 years ago

Hi Vid -
I had wanted to weigh in with thanks for all you do, and the advice you offer.

I did want to ask your opinion on backglasses. Do you recommend any treatment to the back side of the glass if it is in good condition? I know some spray Triple-Thick on the back. I have a couple glasses in good, original condition and I would like to keep them that way. But I wouldn't want a layer of triple-thick or 2pac to cause more damage down the road
-dave

#1797 5 years ago

If a back glass is good, no need to Triple Thick.

If it's flaking, then preserve it.

#1798 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

If a back glass is good, no need to Triple Thick.
If it's flaking, then preserve it.

Do you have a tutorial up for backglass preservation?
-mof

#1799 5 years ago

Sorry, I have not had time to do one yet.

Even some of my latest how-to were pics from my old Geocities site.....

#1800 5 years ago

Hi Vid!
Like many said, thanks a lot for your expertise and giving the balls to newbie like me to make a first clearcoat.
I have a question: I read about clearcoating the other side of the playfield when there's no paint on it. I purchased a Mirco playfield for my White Water and it seems to be the case: no clearcoat or sealer on the back of the playfield.
Should I put one or two layers of 2PAC on this side? If so, do I have to block the holes of the insert, or two layers of coating will be fine for them?
I'll wait for your advice, thanks again!!

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