(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

7 years ago



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There are 6851 posts in this topic. You are on page 30 of 138.
#1451 5 years ago

I will remember for next time. I am good with Photoshop, but this is new territory for me. Every single decal image I made (and there were a handful) I printed in grayscale on plain paper, cut them all out and repeated the process until they were all perfect fits.

But then decals. Damn decals! hehe

#1452 5 years ago

Fairly certain I am going to be banished from the world of pinball restoration with this one, but...

The decal nightmares continue, and this time it's all my fault. I was touching up white decal edges with a tiny, tiny brush and black createx, and managed in two instances to get some paint smeared on the decal.

Any possible way to get that cleaned off of a decal without wrecking it? I fear the answer, but had to ask.

My Pinball Restoration Members Card has already been sent back to world headquarters in Dubuque, Iowa.

Thank you.

#1453 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

Any possible way to get that cleaned off of a decal without wrecking it? I fear the answer, but had to ask.

Try to wipe it up before it dries with a damp Kleenex

#1454 5 years ago

Okay,

Reconfigured some plastic sheeting, so I can vent the paint booth without having to open the garage door all the way. Have an electric oil radiator heater plugged in out there and it seems to be warming it and maintaining decent temp. It's been on for about six hours now.

I am not too keen on having it plugged into an outdoor type extension cord, but there is no other outlet and the garage floor is concrete and cool.

Will keep you posted on whether it is decent enough for clearing tomorrow evening (hopefully) or maybe Tuesday.

Got the painting touch up done and managed to pretty much clean up the smudged decal with Vid's tip.

#1455 5 years ago

Whenever I print anything that has to be a particular size, I change my Photoshop ruler units to mm and make a 5cm square that prints on the same page. After a test print, I measure the square, and if it's 5cm on a side, then I know the printer didn't distort anything.

#1456 5 years ago

Good tip, Caveman Joe. Thanks!

#1457 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You risk hazing if you spray in the cold.

You need a hanging garage heater that can maintain 60 for a week or so. You also need the playfield and 2PAC to be at the same temp, just like when painting cars.

I'd like to talk a bit more about this. The lowest average high in the winter in Seattle is about 47 degrees. It's usually about five or so degrees warmer in my garage than outside, so if 60 is the threshold, then I only need to heat the place up about five to seven degrees. It's a a standard 400 square foot garage, so maybe I can pick up a space heater on craigslist. Is sixty degrees a good threshold, or is that some kind of Absolute Bare-Bones Minimum That Still Probably Isn't a Good Idea?

#1458 5 years ago

Hi,
What is this called? (I have zoomed a on the image from Goldeneye) It looks like a crack.
I have seen it a couple of times, its very hard to feel with my nail but there is something?

Billede 10-11-14 20.14.47.jpg

#1459 5 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

Is sixty degrees a good threshold, or is that some kind of Absolute Bare-Bones Minimum That Still Probably Isn't a Good Idea?

You would have to call whoever makes your clear and ask.

PPG JC661 gives 70*F in their literature and 140*F for IR forced drying.

#1460 5 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

Hi,
What is this called? (I have zoomed a on the image from Goldeneye) It looks like a crack.
I have seen it a couple of times, its very hard to feel with my nail but there is something?

Billede 10-11-14 20.14.47.jpg 47 KB

It could just be a little fracture in the finish, or even something that fell into the finish at the factory.

#1461 5 years ago

Okay,

I sort of asked this before...but a little concerned tonight.

I was asking a few posts up about the temp thing, so I heated my garage for two days with an oil heater. It felt comfortable out there even in shorts. Because I didn't want the garage getting too cold during and after clearing, I built a plastic sheeting tent around the vent fan, down the whole garage length to the garage door, so I could have the door open a little less.

Now, after clearing my whole house smells faintly of that nasty clear smell.

Can the smell spread without the chemical spreading or is my house full of clear? My girl is pissed and concerned a bit for the pets.

Thanks.

#1462 5 years ago

Additionally, it just occurred to me that maybe my furnace, down near my garage is spreading the scent. Other times I have cleared it has been warmer, therefore, no heater.

Thoughts?

#1463 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It could just be a little fracture in the finish, or even something that fell into the finish at the factory.

It looks like a fracture in the finish.
Should I just use ME/Sandpaper? Or is it not only affecting the clear and are deep into the paint?

#1464 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

I heated my garage for two days

Attached garage and if not how far from your house?

#1465 5 years ago

I have 3 playfields I would like to clear and would rather not wait until the Spring. More importantly I would rather not end up with a bad job due to cold temperatures. I guess I have to look into renting a heated space/shop for a month or two. I have an attached garage and a kerosene heater but it was mentioned a while back that the soot from the heater could contaminate the clearcoat finish.

#1466 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

Now, after clearing my whole house smells faintly of that nasty clear smell.

Can the smell spread without the chemical spreading or is my house full of clear? My girl is pissed and concerned a bit for the pets.

The Cyanate does not have a smell, so the chemical company adds that hideous smell so you know if a mask is leaking.

(kind of the same way the Natural Gas company adds the sulfur smell to your gas supply - so you can smell a gas leak before your house blows up).

Are you storing any of the clothes/boots/hazmat suit in the house that you wore when you cleared?

#1467 5 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

It looks like a fracture in the finish.
Should I just use ME/Sandpaper? Or is it not only affecting the clear and are deep into the paint?

I'd have to see a better pic, maybe with a macro lens.

Leave it alone unless you are ready to clearcoat the playfield.

#1468 5 years ago
Quoted from spaceport:

I guess I have to look into renting a heated space/shop for a month or two.

Compare the cost of renting space vs. a $300-400 hanging garage heater.

#1469 5 years ago

Hi Vid,

Nope. Not clothes storage. I sprayed and then removed the clothes, left the garage, went upstairs and checked and instantly my house smelled of it, to the point of it inducing mild headaches. In fact it not only traveled to the ground floor (my garage is under my house) but all the way to the upstairs floor as well...almost instantly.

I had the garage door open about 1/3 the way and I had plastic sheeting like a tent running from the vent fan on the paint booth out to the door, so it would (hopefully) deposit the vapors to the door and help them exit without the door being all the way open.

For some reason my main basement room, which only shares one regular-sized door with the garage (the rest being brick walls) somehow smelled stronger than usual of that nasty clear scent. My furnace is right there and it was running, something which wasn't happening during previous clearing sessions, because it was warm enough that the heat wasn't on.

I am thinking, because of the speed at which it spread and the fact that it made it up two levels, that the furnace sucked in the scent and spit it out.

I, eventually, got the house aired out and it seems fine.

I know the scent is added, from reading your previous posts regarding the toxicity of this stuff, but my question is did my house get polluted or only pick up the scent? Rather, could the scent be travelling places where the substance itself is not?

Final question (I hope) on clearing the PF. I did two layers of clear, sanding after each, then decals, then last night's stinky smelling layer and still on this layer - I have random air bubbles here there and everywhere.

I let the clear sit in its container until it had settled, then I poured it into the HVLP tank and let it settle again. When I was done spraying -- air bubbles. Obviously I will sand them out, but my next coat is hopefully the final one for this PF and I can't see how it won't happen again. What do I do to prevent or rid myself of these? I certainly can't have them on the finished PF.

Thanks as always for indulging my clearing paranoia and PF stupidity.

#1470 5 years ago
Quoted from Curbfeeler:

Attached garage and if not how far from your house?

Yes, under the house. It sits about 1/2 or a little more under a three season porch and the rest under an office in the back. It is composed of foundation walls -- brick on three sides, the main garage door on the fourth side, and one little 2'6 door that enters into the basement.

#1471 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

My furnace is right there and it was running, something which wasn't happening during previous clearing sessions, because it was warm enough that the heat wasn't on.

Maybe you have one of those HE furnaces that draws the air from the outside, and it just happens to draw on that side of the house?

#1472 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

Final question (I hope) on clearing the PF. I did two layers of clear, sanding after each, then decals, then last night's stinky smelling layer and still on this layer - I have random air bubbles here there and everywhere.

Lets see a pic of the bubbles.

#1473 5 years ago

Not sure on the HE furnace thing, but it spread quick and to all floors, and the furnace was definitely kicking out heat...so it's my only explanation. The concern still being could I be getting the odor without being mass poisoned?

In regards to the bubbles. I can see them everywhere, but had the damndest time getting the camera to pick up on them. This is the best picture I got of them, but bubbles this size (tiny) are scattered randomly over the whole PF

11-11-2014-Bubbles-In-Clear-02.png

#1474 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

ot sure on the HE furnace thing, but it spread quick and to all floors, and the furnace was definitely kicking out heat...so it's my only explanation. The concern still being could I be getting the odor without being mass poisoned?

Those HE furnaces have PVC pipe for intake and exhaust that run through the side of the house.

I don't have a poisoning answer. I'd install a charcoal furnace filter today and be done with it.

#1475 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

In regards to the bubbles. I can see them everywhere, but had the damndest time getting the camera to pick up on them. This is the best picture I got of them, but bubbles this size (tiny) are scattered randomly over the whole PF

Pic is too crummy to see type of bubbles.

If they don't sand out, open them with an Xacto blade and fill 'em with clear.

#1476 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

Yes, under the house

Eek, didn't realize it was an attached garage. Well at least when your girl leaves you she won't take the pets (which you killed). Just kidding. Sounds like stack effect somehow pulled the fumes into the house. Warm air that is rising in the living space maybe pulled cold air out of the garage with fumes. Or could be what Vid says and the fresh air intake of your HE furnace pulled fumes from the outside. Do you have a buddy who is single with an unattached garage that likes craft beer a lot? Might be worth a change of venue.

#1477 5 years ago

Vid, can you use a clothes iron to heat the topside of an insert when removing mylar?

Of course, I'd put a cloth down between the mylar and iron - I'm having trouble with the mylar lifting the paint from the plastic inserts, otherwise, it is coming up fine with just me gently pulling it off - would this help, or is it possible that the insert decals are just too far gone and brittle??

#1478 5 years ago

The clothes iron could be a good tool in your Mylar removal kit.

The paint simply has an easier time sticking to wood rather than plastic, so go slow, but expect some paint loss if the game was ever stored in a garage.

#1479 5 years ago

Thanks vid, I'll try the iron, I have no idea where this pin has been - but it's been around and has seen some weather (a guess due to the rust in places)....

For now, I've cut around the inserts, leaving the mylar in place over them until I either a) get new decals or b) figure out a way to re-create decals that I need - I'm minus the hand-held scanner..........and I'll try heating the inserts with the iron to see if that helps........but not too hot.......

#1480 5 years ago
Quoted from Pinball_Nate:

Vid, can you use a clothes iron to heat the topside of an insert when removing mylar?
Of course, I'd put a cloth down between the mylar and iron - I'm having trouble with the mylar lifting the paint from the plastic inserts, otherwise, it is coming up fine with just me gently pulling it off - would this help, or is it possible that the insert decals are just too far gone and brittle??

If you know anyone who flies RC planes they will often have a wing covering iron. I have this one http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXHZ17&P=ML Variable temperature and comes with a fabric sock for the shoe to do what you want.

#1481 5 years ago
Quoted from Curbfeeler:

Eek, didn't realize it was an attached garage. Well at least when your girl leaves you she won't take the pets (which you killed). Just kidding. Sounds like stack effect somehow pulled the fumes into the house. Warm air that is rising in the living space maybe pulled cold air out of the garage with fumes. Or could be what Vid says and the fresh air intake of your HE furnace pulled fumes from the outside. Do you have a buddy who is single with an unattached garage that likes craft beer a lot? Might be worth a change of venue.

I don't have the single friend with the garage and would prefer to not tear down and reset the whole paint booth. Not the biggest undertaking in the world, but... I will figure something out. Really don't think it's an HE furnace though. Nothing vents out the side of the house. But as I mentioned the main basement room, which the furnace is in, was really filled with the odor from the clear, and that hadn't happened previous times that I cleared. I think it took the vapor right out of the room and just threw it into the duct system.

Quoted from vid1900:

Pic is too crummy to see type of bubbles.
If they don't sand out, open them with an Xacto blade and fill 'em with clear.

My concern isn't getting rid of them, because I am sure I can sand them out or cut and fill, my concern is when do they stop? How do I prevent them?

Theoretically, one more clear coat and I am done with the coating process, but not if the bubbles appear again, which they have done every single layer so far.

#1482 5 years ago

Were the bubbles there while you were spraying?

Did they appear latter as it was drying?

Do they only appear over one color?

Do they only appear over repaired areas, or factory areas?

If you spray over another item (like a lid from a popcorn tin) do they appear?

#1483 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Were the bubbles there while you were spraying?
Did they appear latter as it was drying?
Do they only appear over one color?
Do they only appear over repaired areas, or factory areas?
If you spray over another item (like a lid from a popcorn tin) do they appear?

1) Yes, they appear during the spraying or are certainly visible immediately following
2) They appear over any color (no preferential treatment)
3) They appear over factory areas more so than repaired areas
4) I don't know about the other item -- I would have to toxicify my house again to find out.

Thanks.

#1484 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

Really don't think it's an HE furnace though. Nothing vents out the side of the house. But as I mentioned the main basement room, which the furnace is in, was really filled with the odor from the clear, and that hadn't happened previous times that I cleared. I think it took the vapor right out of the room and just threw it into the duct system.

I would also vote for stack effect sucking air through the many crevices around doors and don't overlook the wall sills not being sealed to the concrete foundation or even a lack of vapour barrier. There are many possibilities.

#1485 5 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

I would also vote for stack effect sucking air through the many crevices around doors and don't overlook the wall sills not being sealed to the concrete foundation or even a lack of vapour barrier. There are many possibilities.

Indeed. Thanks for the input.

#1486 5 years ago

Thanks BJM-Maxx, I've seen those - will try the iron first and report back, the mylar is lifting what looks like a thin coat of the plastic right off the top of the inserts (along with the print) so will try to heat/melt it just ever so slightly, I think it's just the age of the plastic...........man, this pf stuff is NOT fun, this will be my first and last resto!!!

#1487 5 years ago

Hey Vid,

What would you recommend for dealing with the Williams non-jeweled arrow inserts that are warped? I'll soon be working on a Firepower and the arrow inserts are concave, having a "banana" shape. The pointed tips seem to be raised the most.

I can move them by pressing down on them so I don't think removal should pose a problem.

#1488 5 years ago

Make sure the high points are glued down with epoxy flush with the surface of the playfield.

Rough up the faces (as much as you can without ruining the art) and drip 2PAC into the depression.

#1489 5 years ago

Great. Thanks Vid!

#1490 5 years ago

I bought an Iwata airbrush kit with a gravity fed gun. The cup holds 1/3 oz.
How much coverage do you get from 1/3 oz with Createx opaque paint? I have no idea how much paint to mix once the time comes to start painting my playfield.

#1491 5 years ago

Hard to say.

The more experienced you are the less paint you use.

When you get your gun, work out your settings and flow on a piece of cardboard.

You will quickly see your paint consumption.

#1492 5 years ago

Vid,

Any idea on those bubbles?

#1493 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

Vid,
Any idea on those bubbles?

Go over all your stuff.

Clean your mixing glass spotless, make sure your mixing spoon is spotless, your gun head tight, your sandpaper brand new, your cleaning rags new, and don't get any of your deodorant anywhere near your gear.

If you still get any bubbles, pop them before the clear sets.

#1494 5 years ago

Don't mix in a plastic cup unless it's made for 2PAC.

#1495 5 years ago

Vid, I just picked up an RFM and at the time I did not see the gouge on the playfield behind the left ball gate. Only noticed it when I removed the upper playfield parts to clean and install new rubber. I am thinking on either filling in the gouge with bondo then paint and cover with mylar or send it out to get it repaired and cleared. What do you think.

100_2509.JPG

It looks like the gate pin came out at one point and did the damage.

100_2578.JPG

#1496 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Don't mix in a plastic cup unless it's made for 2PAC.

That might be it. I've been using a plastic mixing cup that I did get from the auto paint supply shop, but it was given to me for mixing car paint, not necessarily 2pac.

I take it there's a special type for 2pac?

Thanks!

#1497 5 years ago
Quoted from Crashnburn:

I am thinking on either filling in the gouge with bondo then paint and cover with mylar or send it out to get it repaired and cleared. What do you think.

Looks like an easy repair because it's in an out of the way location.

Harder to mach color, but still doable.

#1498 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

That might be it. I've been using a plastic mixing cup that I did get from the auto paint supply shop, but it was given to me for mixing car paint, not necessarily 2pac.

I take it there's a special type for 2pac?

It's probably OK, if it's for auto paint.

#1499 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

Yes, under the house. It sits about 1/2 or a little more under a three season porch and the rest under an office in the back. It is composed of foundation walls -- brick on three sides, the main garage door on the fourth side, and one little 2'6 door that enters into the basement.

This experience may pay off for you in the long run. By putting the smelly fumes in your garage, and finding out that their is a natural path for those fumes to enter your living quarters, you now know that you are also getting the dangerous odorless fumes that may occur in our garage as well. Don't run your car in that garage to warm it up in the winter until you find and eliminate the air infiltration problem. Once you get the air leak problem solved, your heat bills will likely go down as well.

Mac

#1500 5 years ago
Quoted from Sheprd:

This experience may pay off for you in the long run. By putting the smelly fumes in your garage, and finding out that their is a natural path for those fumes to enter your living quarters, you now know that you are also getting the dangerous odorless fumes that may occur in our garage as well. Don't run your car in that garage to warm it up in the winter until you find and eliminate the air infiltration problem. Once you get the air leak problem solved, your heat bills will likely go down as well.
Mac

Good tip. Thanks, Mac. Luckily I don't even keep my car in there, because it is a smaller garage and full of stuff. Was lucky (I think) to have created enough space for my paint booth. I have decided I can't finish it out there this winter, but also that it has to be done (I want it completed in the next month or two). So, I am now trying to figure out where I might be able to rent out someone's paint booth for a weekend or two and complete it in the right environment.

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