(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

7 years ago



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There are 6996 posts in this topic. You are on page 28 of 140.
#1351 5 years ago
Quoted from Lonzo:

1. Do you have to clear the decals printed on laser before you put them in water.

No need.

The laser wax is waterproof.

Quoted from Lonzo:

What brand of laser decal paper do you recommend?

http://www.decalpaper.com/category-s/3.htm

#1352 5 years ago
Quoted from futurepinhead:

Not deep enough to measure but deep enough to stop a fingernail when sliding across the playfield. Maybe these photos will help. It looks worse than it is, it doesn't taper down like it appears. It has one deep spot and that is very thin. It is all the way to the end of the flipper.

I'd sand and feather all the bare wood in the area.

Then lightly tone it with Shellac to match the other wood on the playfield.

Finally, fill the depression with 2PAC.

Clear the entire playfield and sand it all flat.

#1353 5 years ago

By the time everything is said and done how much clear is optimal to have left on the PF. I know much gets taken away finish sanding etc. If for example you've flattened out the finish and you could polish or buff how much should be left.

#1354 5 years ago
Quoted from jasonsmith:

By the time everything is said and done how much clear is optimal to have left on the PF. I know much gets taken away finish sanding etc. If for example you've flattened out the finish and you could polish or buff how much should be left.

Hard to say for a few reasons.

Sometimes you have a new CPR playfield and most of the inserts are raised by 1mm above the playfield. So here you need to "bury" those inserts in the clear to get the whole playfield flat and you might end up with the clear being 1.5mm thick on average.

Using a digital mic, it looks like many playfields end up with 1mm of clearcoat.

Don't use too much clear, just use whatever it takes to be able to make the playfield dead flat.

10
#1355 5 years ago

Just a quick note of thanks to Vid and others on this thread. After 2 years of starts and stops, I finally put down my first coat of clear. More work to do of course but the toughest step is behind me thanks to you all!

image-151.jpg

image-38.jpg

image-261.jpg

#1356 5 years ago

Just filled my cupped inserts with 2pac and did my first coat of clear today. I am excited to have gotten this done...fear of doing all of this "stuff" and doing it right put me off of my restoration for probably a couple of months.

For those who are in the place I was in (worrying about getting it right)...you warm up to the process real quick. Setup and cleanup are mildly time consuming, but it already seems like old hat to me -- it was so simple.

Tomorrow - sanding, waterslide decals and coat #2.

How long after adding decals before I should hit it with coat #2?

Thanks everyone!

#1357 5 years ago

A question, which maybe destroys all of the hope I broadcast in my last message (hopefully not).

My first coat of clear has been drying for 6 hours or so. It doesn't look mirror shiny like the Bride of Pinbot pics above or some Funhouse ones posted recently. It looks evenly dimpled, like it has goose bumps (over all of it). Granted this is the first coat, but is that wrong or messed up?

I wet sanded and dry sanded thoroughly with 800 grit. I did two thorough wash-ups with Naptha before clearing. Then I filled my cupped inserts and a short while later shot clear at about 45psi. Went back and forth over the entire PF maybe twice.

#1358 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

A question, which maybe destroys all of the hope I broadcast in my last message (hopefully not).
My first coat of clear has been drying for 6 hours or so. It doesn't look mirror shiny like the Bride of Pinbot pics above or some Funhouse ones posted recently. It looks evenly dimpled, like it has goose bumps (over all of it). Granted this is the first coat, but is that wrong or messed up?
I wet sanded and dry sanded thoroughly with 800 grit. I did two thorough wash-ups with Naptha before clearing. Then I filled my cupped inserts and a short while later shot clear at about 45psi. Went back and forth over the entire PF maybe twice.

Vid will have an "official" answer for you but it sounds like not enough clear causing an eggshell finish. Also not sure about your pressure. I know all guns are different but that seems high. My gun uses 12-14 psi.

#1359 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

My first coat of clear has been drying for 6 hours or so. It doesn't look mirror shiny like the Bride of Pinbot pics above or some Funhouse ones posted recently. It looks evenly dimpled, like it has goose bumps (over all of it). Granted this is the first coat, but is that wrong or messed up?

Sounds like not enough clear was laid out for the finish to "flow".

Shoot another coat, and make sure it looks like a sheet of glass before you put the gun down.

#1360 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

It looks evenly dimpled, like it has goose bumps (over all of it). Granted this is the first coat, but is that wrong or messed up?

Had the same thing on my pinbot using spraymax and it was not enough clear as Vid says. I don't want to self promote, but maybe check my pinbot resto thread starting on post 43 and see if it looks similar. If so, no worries. Sand and hit it with thicker and it will be great!

#1361 5 years ago

Thanks guys. This go back to questions asked before about how much clear to lay down. I went back and forth a few times and thought it was too much, but it looks exactly like you are describing, Vid...not enough.

It will be about 24 hours on the nose before I can get another coat on, so presumably I have to sand, as Curbfeeler mentioned?

Thanks

#1362 5 years ago

Is it possible to trap swirl marks in between clear coats?

I have seen people block sand with as low as 220 between coats and I've seen recommendations as high as 1000. You would think that a properly applied clear coat would fill and translate all swirls to the current surface for clean up correct? Obviously the more course the blocking the more you'll need to get out on top right?

Just need to wrap my head around this.

#1363 5 years ago

Vid and Curbfeeler:

Bingo. I gave that crap-layer of a clear a light, wet 800 grit block sand, naptha, and a new coat of clear. I laid it on nice and gooey and BAM - a shiny mirror finish.

Thanks for getting me back on track!

#1364 5 years ago

Vid and fellow Pinsiders. I'm ready to finish my BOP but need some "next steps" guidance.

I've done 99% of the airbrush artwork repair already
Then....
I put down first coat yesterday (see pic)

Now what?

I think...(am I correct)

Sand first coat flat (how long do I wait to ensure fully cured in order to sand)
Finish my airbrush art repairs (I want to paint the unseen white areas that really help spread play field lighting)
Add a water slide decal (over an insert who's lettering was too damaged to simply touch up)
Add final coat of clear (again, now how long to wait for touch up paint to cure)

image-687.jpg

#1365 5 years ago

I am in the same boat as MT45. One coat of clear done. When can I sand and add decals? And then when can I hit it with the second coat after decals?

#1366 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

It will be about 24 hours on the nose before I can get another coat on, so presumably I have to sand, as Curbfeeler mentioned?

Yes, sand.

You want to flatten out all that wave.

Also, fill in any fisheyes or gaps that opened around inserts. Then clear.

#1367 5 years ago
Quoted from jasonsmith:

Is it possible to trap swirl marks in between clear coats?

The clear fills in any sanding marks.

Quoted from jasonsmith:

I have seen people block sand with as low as 220 between coats and I've seen recommendations as high as 1000. You would think that a properly applied clear coat would fill and translate all swirls to the current surface for clean up correct?

You may use many different grades depending on what you are trying to do.

Knock down a wave or run? 220 might be the fast route for that job.

Sand an otherwise good coat for it's final coat? 1000 would probably be good.

1000 is nice to work with if you have more touch up painting to do.

#1368 5 years ago
Quoted from MT45:

Sand first coat flat (how long do I wait to ensure fully cured in order to sand)

If it's clogging your sandpaper, it needs more time to cure.

How accurately you mixed the hardener or any additives like Fisheye stuff will make a difference.

#1369 5 years ago

I got some of the 2PAC on my garage floor, and I'm not sure if my landlord will take kindly to it when we move out. Is there an easy way to remove it?

#1370 5 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

I got some of the 2PAC on my garage floor, and I'm not sure if my landlord will take kindly to it when we move out. Is there an easy way to remove it?

Quoted from vid1900:

The next chemical you need is Lacquer Thinner. This is nasty stuff that dissolves many finishes. We use it to clean our spray guns, eye droppers, measuring cups, spills. DON'T use Lacquer Thinner to clean your playfield. Lacquer Thinner is a mega carcinogen, so again, chem mask needed during use.

#1371 5 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

I got some of the 2PAC on my garage floor, and I'm not sure if my landlord will take kindly to it when we move out. Is there an easy way to remove it?

Lacquer thinner and a scraper will do a few drips.

A large area and you are not getting your deposit back.

#1372 5 years ago

Yeah, these are just a few dime-sized drops. There might be an area the size of a lid of small mixing bowl lid outside, but I won't know until it dries out from the rain we've been having.

#1373 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

nice and gooey and BAM - a shiny mirror finish.

Resto thread or it didn't happen.

#1374 5 years ago

I was wondering about adhesion of 2pac to decals. I have read the whole thread and I understand the purpose of 2pac underneath and on top of the decal. Is this true once you scale the decal's size up? Some people have been talking about some pretty large decals. You clear, then sand, then apply the decal, then more clear. You cannot sand the decal itself so the clear on top is laying on a shiny smooth plastic. Wouldn't this cause trouble in the case of a large decal?

#1375 5 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

You clear, then sand, then apply the decal, then more clear. You cannot sand the decal itself so the clear on top is laying on a shiny smooth plastic. Wouldn't this cause trouble in the case of a large decal?

The decal is not shiny (at least not waterslide decals), and are made to be cleared over.

Large decals are usually cut up into manageable sections.

#1376 5 years ago

Really love this thread! I have written down the major parts and I am studying it every day like a homework. Soon soon I am ready to take the plunge! Thanks again!

#1377 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The decal is not shiny (at least not waterslide decals), and are made to be cleared over.
Large decals are usually cut up into manageable sections.

Okay, that and its obviously well proven to work.

Different question, I have been thinking of getting a playfield printed on a flat bed printer. I know its been tried and I heard of an issue with clearing it where the clear ate the UV cured ink. Has anyone on this thread done this? I know Vid mentioned barely spraying decals initially to prevent eating them. I wonder if that approach will work for a printed playfield. I am a bit surprised that such clear coat being so active does not attack the Creatix paints at all.

http://www.edcheung.com/album/album07/Pinball/ss_pfb.htm

#1378 5 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

I am a bit surprised that such clear coat being so active does not attack the Creatix paints at all.

That is because Createx paints are water based.

If they were solvent based, it might be an issue.

Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

I have been thinking of getting a playfield printed on a flat bed printer.

Ask the sign shop for a scrap of a sign. They will always have some flawed or test panels.

Test with the exact clear you are going to shoot.

Like they always say "One good test puts 1,000 good theories to rest".

#1379 5 years ago

I had a test print of my artwork done on a high quality paper but on the same flatbed printer. I am waiting for a test print being done on a wooden panel I made up. Mostly I want to be able to assess colours but it gives me a whole piece to practice clearing on.

Vid in all your posts here, I do not recall what you said you use for breathing protection when you do clear, do you use a air supply system?

#1380 5 years ago

What are the options for dealing with white text on a large coloured area? I have a Williams Gay 90's with a few of these areas. See for instance http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=989&picno=34768 with the "Change" and "100" text. My playfield is fairly worn and I think I'll be repainting it.

I know it is suggested to use a decal printing service that prints with white ink. I've seen a few sites with decal printing services and they are all very expensive per page!

Can the Silhouette Cameo Cutter cut accurately enough to create a mask for text?

Is it possible to hand colour the white and then lay a decal on top with the black outline? I saw that the Molotow paint markers are available with white ink.

#1381 5 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

I do not recall what you said you use for breathing protection when you do clear, do you use a air supply system?

I use a 3M respirator listed a few pages back in the "stuff you need" (I'm on my phone or I'd look it up for you).

If you end up doing playfields for a living, you will save money using an air supply over buying $20 cartridges every 40 hours.

#1382 5 years ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

I know it is suggested to use a decal printing service that prints with white ink. I've seen a few sites with decal printing services and they are all very expensive per page!

You can cram A LOT of artwork on a page. You can do several pin's art, or use up extra space with Keylines for common inserts.

Quoted from dr_nybble:

Is it possible to hand colour the white and then lay a decal on top with the black outline? I saw that the Molotow paint markers are available with white ink.

Sure, that is exactly what I did here with the "5000 W/ Lit":

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/3

Quoted from dr_nybble:

What are the options for dealing with white text on a large coloured area? I have a Williams Gay 90's with a few of these areas. See for instance http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=989&picno=34768 with the "Change" and "100" text. My playfield is fairly worn and I think I'll be repainting it.

I'd assume that those large blue fields would need repainting, so I'd probably spray my white patches, then frisket around them and spray my blue, then remove the frisket and apply the black outline around the white.

#1383 5 years ago

Vid,

Picked up my wife's dream machine this weekend and other than very minor ghosting on some inserts, this is the only playfiels flaw. Looks like it was previously played with the rollover broken and ball strikes caused paint and clear chips. The wood is not damaged at all. I'm probably a long way out from sending the playfield out to be restored. There are vinyl stickers available for this area that I may use. What would you suggest for this area first, to ensure no further damage before proceeding?image-510.jpg

#1384 5 years ago

Hi guys,

I did my first coat of clear and I was sanding with 800 and just using the body of an electric sander as a sanding block, but I wasn't making much progress, so I went out and got a nice hard 3M sanding block and some 600 grit wet/dry paper and started sanding.

Don't worry about paint scratches, etc you might see in the picture, I am doing some replacement decal work. Mine concern was, in this first picture:

When-Lit-Gassing.png

This insert was cracked, I couldn't find a suitable replacement (spent months trying), this was before I had the resources on Pinside for replacing insert art, etc and I had already re-sealed this insert into the machine. The clearcoat has sealed this so you can't even see the crack, and the surface is level and smooth, but this white bubbling occurred after the first coat of clear. I am not even concerned with the little bubbles scattered around the edges, but the big clusters of foamy white bubbling are ugly. Suggestions?

In this second picture, I have highlighted two small divots in the playfield. These divots are all over the playfield after the first coat of clear. 600 grit and the block aren't getting me anywhere fast on leveling these out and I want to know how to get them out before I shoot another coat, and how they got there in the first place, so it doesn't happen on subsequent coats of clear. Presumably they are air bubbles? If so, how does one prevent this?

Playfield-Bubbles.png

I have the whole Vid PF restore/clearcoat printed out (thus far) and I don't think I missed anything, but I am flustered.

Thanks, as always, pin-geniuses.

#1385 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

I have highlighted two small divots in the playfield

Is it possible those are low spots that look darker because the sandpaper didn't hit them? Check post 1321, a Taxi with the same issue. Vid suggested he could fill with an eyedropper.

#1386 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

this white bubbling occurred after the first coat of clear

Check post 954, Vid talks about these bubbles in decals. is this area a decal?

#1387 5 years ago
Quoted from jwo825:

Picked up my wife's dream machine this weekend and other than very minor ghosting on some inserts, this is the only playfiels flaw. Looks like it was previously played with the rollover broken and ball strikes caused paint and clear chips. The wood is not damaged at all. I'm probably a long way out from sending the playfield out to be restored. There are vinyl stickers available for this area that I may use. What would you suggest for this area first, to ensure no further damage before proceeding?

Wax it, then cover it with Mylar.

The Wax will ensure that the Mylar comes up cleanly.

#1388 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

but this white bubbling occurred after the first coat of clear. I am not even concerned with the little bubbles scattered around the edges, but the big clusters of foamy white bubbling are ugly.

Take a sharp, pointed Xacto blade and open those bubbles up.

Using only the weight of the knife, gently spit the Xacto.

Vacuum up any dust and use an eyedropper to fill the bubble holes with 2PAC.

#1389 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

In this second picture, I have highlighted two small divots in the playfield. These divots are all over the playfield after the first coat of clear. 600 grit and the block aren't getting me anywhere fast on leveling these out and I want to know how to get them out before I shoot another coat, and how they got there in the first place, so it doesn't happen on subsequent coats of clear. Presumably they are air bubbles? If so, how does one prevent this?

There are often divots all over any playfield.

Just take some worn, soft sandpaper on the tip of your finger and rough up the divot and surrounding playfield.

Fill with a drop of 2PAC.

When you shoot your next layer of clear, it will get leveled by the sander.

-1
#1390 5 years ago
Quoted from Curbfeeler:

Check post 954, Vid talks about these bubbles in decals. is this area a decal?

It could just be outgassing where the 2PAC has reacted with the old lacquer :

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/18

#1391 5 years ago

Here is IM Vault I picked up NIB in August with about 300 plays on it. I noticed the top edge at the drain hole that the clear coat is starting to peel off. I'd like to prevent this from getting worse etc..

thanks!

IMG_0129.JPG

#1392 5 years ago

Mylar over it, with at least an inch of extra material wrapped around to the underside.

If you ever clear the playfield, gently sand a radius around the outhole to keep the new clear from chipping.

Closely inspect your balls for any nicks, too.

#1393 5 years ago

amazon.com link »
Would a piece like that be ok?

thanks

#1395 5 years ago

Any tips for avoiding bubbles when laying down mylar over an entire playfield?

#1396 5 years ago
Quoted from asay:

Any tips for avoiding bubbles when laying down mylar over an entire playfield?

Wax the entire playfield with Blitz so you can remove the Mylar latter.

Clean the playfield with a Tac-cloth, then roll out the Mylar.

Warm it gently with a hair dryer and use just the tip of a pin to pop any air bubbles.

#1397 5 years ago

Vid,

I so thank you for taking your time and giving us your professional tips.
I have encountered a Firepower playfield which was coated with Varathane from the get-go. Also, the previous owner had removed the 2 star rollover buttons but cracked maybe 2 fingers from each insert.
This can be a great candidate to practice clear-coating my first playfield.
Questions:
Can the Varathane be removed off the playfield ?
Using your "don't pop inserts out" option, can the broken rollover insert be salvageable ?

#1398 5 years ago
Quoted from MarcelG:

can the broken rollover insert be salvageable ?

Score the edge with an Xacto blade and take the broken inserts out.

Quoted from MarcelG:

Can the Varathane be removed off the playfield ?

Water based can sometimes be removed, but oil based Varathane is probably on for good.

#1399 5 years ago

A question on Mylar.
So I remove Mylar from pop bumpers, slingshots etc. when clear coating.
Should I add it again or is it not necessary with the amount of play it gets in home use?

I have asked a local person who has done playfields and he does not add Mylar again because he says that the amount and the quality of clear is so good that it is not necessary.

But Vid what is your recommendation?

#1400 5 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

A question on Mylar.
So I remove Mylar from pop bumpers, slingshots etc. when clear coating.
Should I add it again or is it not necessary with the amount of play it gets in home use?
I have asked a local person who has done playfields and he does not add Mylar again because he says that the amount and the quality of clear is so good that it is not necessary.
But Vid what is your recommendation?

I put Mylar back on anywhere a ball drops down from a habitrail, or places that always get destroyed (upper left chute exit on Fireball, blue knight on MM....). If there is a high wear area like a pop bumper pen, and it is difficult to wax and maintain (like under the ramp in Comet, or AFM) I'll Mylar that too.

There is no sin in using Mylar.

Just remember to wax the playfield first, before you install it, so you can remove it latter.

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