Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

5 years ago



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142 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 6188 posts in this topic. You are on page 22 of 124.
#1051 4 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

Is there any planking of the wood visible after pulling it off, and did you loose any paint? Hope it went well.

It came up well using the freeze method. Very limited paint lifting around inserts.

#1052 4 years ago

I found this thread that links to a 2 part Urethane clear coat that comes in a can:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/2-part-urethane-clearcoat-aerosol

Should I give that stuff a shot?

#1053 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:

I found this thread that links to a 2 part Urethane clear coat that comes in a can:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/2-part-urethane-clearcoat-aerosol
Should I give that stuff a shot?

I've used that 2-part spray clear. To give you an idea of how great it is, I'm setting up a spray booth in my garage and buying a 60-gallon compressor.

Slow down and do some homework before you try anything.

#1054 4 years ago

did you remove the mylar glue? you will need to do that before clearing or applying new mylar.

use the flour and alcohol trick. it really is the cat's ass. I took the mylar off my non DP funhouse and it worked great with no issues.

-c

#1055 4 years ago
Quoted from CraigC:

did you remove the mylar glue? you will need to do that before clearing or applying new mylar.
use the flour and alcohol trick. it really is the cat's ass. I took the mylar off my non DP Funhouse and it worked great with no issues.
-c

Not yet, I'm definitely going to give the flour a shot though.

Quoted from radium:

I've used that 2-part spray clear. To give you an idea of how great it is, I'm setting up a spray booth in my garage and buying a 60-gallon compressor.
Slow down and do some homework before you try anything.

Just curious, what issues did you have with it?

Quoted from radium:

Slow down and do some homework before you try anything.

for whatever reason I didn't think clear coating was a necessity after removing the mylar..then I read some more and my world fell apart

#1056 4 years ago
Quoted from radium:

I've used that 2-part spray clear. To give you an idea of how great it is, I'm setting up a spray booth in my garage and buying a 60-gallon compressor.
Slow down and do some homework before you try anything.

I agree. Here is my booth. Takes about 30 minutes to set up. If painting is all your doing then 60 Gallon is overkill but rather have to much than not enough. I have a 27 gallon and it works great.
image.jpg

Taken down and ready to be stored.
image-710.jpg

#1057 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:

Not yet, I'm definitely going to give the flour a shot though.

Just curious, what issues did you have with it?

Don't wait too long. The glue will harden and make it much more difficult.

#1058 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:

Just curious, what issues did you have with it?

I found it pretty hard to work with compared to an HVLP sprayer. You have less control of flow rate and pattern, though it can be adjusted to an extent. If you can't complete your spray with one can you have to stop and switch to another can which can be problematic. The finish seemed very prone to orange peel. Heating the can first under warm water seemed to help some of these issues. It's also pretty expensive stuff!

I would definitely sacrifice a can and practice on a test panel if I were you. If you can get the technique down, it does make a nice finish.

Make sure you have proper safety equipment!

#1059 4 years ago

The issue with the Spraymax 2k is the spray control, sanding inbetween, and the orange peel finish. The first time I used it, I had excellent results with only slight orange peel. The second time, it was not quite as good. Some areas went on thicker than others, despite keeping even strokes. Still looks good, but not HVLP sprayer quality I see on this forum.

Spraymax worked best when I kept the can further back than the recommended distance and sprayed multiple light passes instead of heavier coats. Obviously that results in more of an orange peel finish in the end, but I can live with that, and it can be somewhat buffed out. But as Radium said, it won't match the quality of what you see people doing on here with the HVLP sprayers. I didn't have a choice because I live in a townhome and have no garage to make a booth out of. I had to take my chances and spray outdoors, and I'm not going to be doing this regularly, so buying 2 cans made more sense than the whole kit.

#1060 4 years ago

Do I need to remove everything from the bottom of the playfield before applying flour? I imagine in can get kinda messy...

#1061 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:

Do I need to remove everything from the bottom of the playfield before applying flour? I imagine in can get kinda messy...

Nope, but it will get gunked up in your lever switches for slings, targets, rollovers, etc. You can wrap those in masking tape and just vacuum out the rest later. I don't even remove the topside stuff when I remove mylar unless I have to. Maybe that is poor advice, but I've removed it on 3 machines so far with no issues doing it this way.

#1062 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:

Do I need to remove everything from the bottom of the playfield before applying flour? I imagine in can get kinda messy...

Tape off your holes and slots.

Don't get flour into your star rollovers!

#1063 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Tape off your holes and slots.
Don't get flour into your star rollovers!

Ok thanks. I also read on another thread here that you don't necessarily have to clear coat or re-apply mylar after you pull it if the machine is HUO/low use. Bad idea?

#1064 4 years ago

Mylar is there to protect the playfield.

If you remove it and get a nicked ball, it can do a lot of damage in a high wear area in little time.

A modern playfield is a bit less of a worry than a pre-1990 .

If you wax the playfield before putting on new Mylar, it will come up much more easily than the orig Mylar.

#1065 4 years ago
Quoted from radium:

I've used that 2-part spray clear. To give you an idea of how great it is, I'm setting up a spray booth in my garage and buying a 60-gallon compressor.
Slow down and do some homework before you try anything.

It worked fine for me. You will need about a can per coat though. All the safety requirements still apply.

#1066 4 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

The issue with the Spraymax 2k is the spray control, sanding inbetween, and the orange peel finish. The first time I used it, I had excellent results with only slight orange peel. The second time, it was not quite as good. Some areas went on thicker than others, despite keeping even strokes. Still looks good, but not HVLP sprayer quality I see on this forum.
Spraymax worked best when I kept the can further back than the recommended distance and sprayed multiple light passes instead of heavier coats. Obviously that results in more of an orange peel finish in the end, but I can live with that, and it can be somewhat buffed out. But as Radium said, it won't match the quality of what you see people doing on here with the HVLP sprayers. I didn't have a choice because I live in a townhome and have no garage to make a booth out of. I had to take my chances and spray outdoors, and I'm not going to be doing this regularly, so buying 2 cans made more sense than the whole kit.

In my experience this was not the case. I laid it on thick, as in a whole can, and it leveled and dried super glossy with no orange peel. I did get a can with a bad nozzle that gave me some heinous orange peel though. Watch out for that.

#1067 4 years ago

Orange peel...like a pitted finish?

#1068 4 years ago

Can we take any conversation that is not about the Vid specific way of pf restoration out of this topic? There are plenty of discussions on rattle can spray max.

Also, if you have a question, please have the respect to actually read the whole thread before asking. There is a good chance your question has already been answered or you will be able to ask it in a better way after reading and absoring the great info already in this thread.

#1069 4 years ago

Vid's got a whole index of where topics can be found in the original post. I made that mistake once. Oops!

#1070 4 years ago

Vid... probably not but will this compressor work for clearcoat with Harbor Freight gun? 21 gallon, cast iron, fits in my car? And on sale $165 this week at HF.1407602992564.jpg

#1071 4 years ago
Quoted from MT45:

Vid... probably not but will this compressor work for clearcoat with Harbor Freight gun? 21 gallon, cast iron, fits in my car? And on sale $165 this week at HF.

1407602992564.jpg 217 KB

That's what I have and it works fine. Make sure you break it in as the manual says.

#1072 4 years ago

Thank you sir!

Quoted from Lonzo:

That's what I have and it works fine. Make sure you break it in as the manual says.

#1073 4 years ago
Quoted from MT45:

Vid... probably not but will this compressor work for clearcoat with Harbor Freight gun? 21 gallon, cast iron, fits in my car? And on sale $165 this week at HF.

1407602992564.jpg 217 KB

Looks good enough.

Order a valve replacement kit NOW, and put it away. You never know if 5 years from now parts will still be available.

#1074 4 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Can we take any conversation that is not about the Vid specific way of pf restoration out of this topic? There are plenty of discussions on rattle can spray max.
Also, if you have a question, please have the respect to actually read the whole thread before asking. There is a good chance your question has already been answered or you will be able to ask it in a better way after reading and absoring the great info already in this thread.

The thread police have arrived. Everybody scatter!

#1075 4 years ago
Quoted from Anth:

The thread police have arrived. Everybody scatter!

And I am pretty sure that someone has said that before so if he would have read the thread he would have known that.

#1076 4 years ago
Quoted from Lonzo:

And I am pretty sure that someone has said that before so if he would have read the thread he would have known that.

Well I read all Vid's posts in the thread and he hadn't responded to the discussion about spraymax, which is why I missed it. I did a search for my other 2 questions and no one else asked them. I don't think I was disrespectful/off topic by asking about mylar, alternative clearcoat types, or whether everything needs to be stripped for flouring....but I guess I'll make a new thread for every little question I have in the future

#1077 4 years ago

FEAR OF MYLAR
===================================

A lot of Pinsiders seem to have a fear of Mylar.

There is nothing inherently wrong with Mylar. It has saved millions of games from the dumpster.

Of course if the Mylar is peeling or bubbling and thus affecting the ball travel, it probably should be dealt with, but otherwise 90% of pin owners should just leave it alone. Let it continue to protect the playfield as it has for the last 30 years.

-

A few years ago I restored a Fireball Classic for a client and I put a piece a piece of Mylar on the upper playfield.

I put the Mylar over the spot that is worn to bare wood on 99% of every Fireball in existence. Every missed skill shot takes a bounce down the chute and crashes into the exact same spot.

After a few months, the guy was waxing his playfield and discovered the Mylar:

Client: Hey Vid, you put Mylar on my brand new clearcoated playfield???
Vid: Yes, of course.
C: I mean, with that super clearcoat, you ruined it with Mylar?
V: Ruined it? I'm keeping it from getting ruined.
C: The new clearcoat can be ruined?
V: The clear is super tough, but it is still not as hard as a steel ball.
C: I always heard you want to remove Mylar.
V: Only if it is interfering with the game somehow. How long did it take you to discover the Mylar?
C: Three months!
V: Then I think it's not interfering with game play (laughs).
C: What if it starts to peel?
V: I'll pull it off and put a new piece down.

It's been years and the Mylar is still solid.
-
So don't be afraid of Mylar.

Even with a good clearcoat, you want it where balls drop from ramps (like MM in front of the FIRE inserts), some pop bumpers, and any other super high wear spot.

You can ever put it on the bottoms of ramp flaps to keep the spring steel from cutting into the playfield.

Just remember to wax before you Mylar. That way it will peel up easily.

IMG_9535.jpg

#1078 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:

Well I read all Vid's posts in the thread and he hadn't responded to the discussion about spraymax, which is why I missed it. I did a search for my other 2 questions and no one else asked them. I don't think I was disrespectful/off topic by asking about mylar, alternative clearcoat types, or whether everything needs to be stripped for flouring....but I guess I'll make a new thread for every little question I have in the future

I was actually talking about the guy that told people to read the thread, not you.

#1079 4 years ago
Quoted from MT45:

Vid... probably not but will this compressor work for clearcoat with Harbor Freight gun? 21 gallon, cast iron, fits in my car? And on sale $165 this week at HF.

1407602992564.jpg 217 KB

I have one sitting in my garage right now and it works fine. Make sure to get a filter kit when you pick it up and great some disposable in line water filters too. For some reason it collects a bunch of water. Test sprayed at 40 and found it needed a bit more so it's set for 50 and runs a bit more them I want it too so plan on extra water filters and either quick sprays of thin coats or compressor running while you spray. It hold 50 fine while spraying, no worries there

#1080 4 years ago

After reading the thread I can see that Frisket is very important.
Where do you buy it?

#1081 4 years ago

There is one Mylar to always fear: Non-Adhesive Mylar.

You see this all the time on Gottlieb games.

Abrasive grit and junk gets under the Mylar and is continually ground into the playfield. It literally chews holes all the way down to the wood.

If you have a game with Non-adhesive Mylar installed, replace it immediately with an adhesive ring (wax the playfield before you install it).

NON-AD.jpg

#1082 4 years ago
Quoted from tezting:

After reading the thread I can see that Frisket is very important.
Where do you buy it?

http://www.tcpglobal.com/KUS-CMF1230.html#.U-aPOWMa1dg

Lots of different sizes available

#1083 4 years ago
Quoted from asay:

Well I read all Vid's posts in the thread and he hadn't responded to the discussion about spraymax, which is why I missed it.

I have not used Spraymax, so I can't say much about it.

#1084 4 years ago

Vid, I have a Black Hole with the non-adhesive pop mylars. The wood is worn badly under each one. I removed them.

As you know Black Hole has a complex blue / light blue / black pattern covering the playfield. I'm not at the stage of learning restoration where I'm ready to re-paint on a PF yet. 1-2 years from now I'll dive in.

In your experience what is the best visual way to cover up the worn art under the pops before applying mylar in a simple matter that I can apply to all three pops? I was wondering if there is such thing as a black or blue mylar, so that I have plain coherent circles of "a color" under each pop.

thanks,
mof

#1085 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

I have a Black Hole with the non-adhesive pop mylars. The wood is worn badly under each one. I removed them.

Yep, I see that all the time.

Quoted from mof:

I was wondering if there is such thing as a black or blue mylar, so that I have plain coherent circles of "a color" under each pop.

Lighting Gels are Polyester like Mylar, and they come in about 100 colors.

Hit up your local DJ Supply or Guitar Center and find a good match.

gels.JPG
#1086 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Lighting Gels are Polyester like Mylar, and they come in about 100 colors.
Hit up your local DJ Supply or Guitar Center and find a good match.

Interesting, are they normally adhesive on one side?
If not, what's the plan?
-mof

#1087 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Interesting, are they normally adhesive on one side?
If not, what's the plan?
-mof

Just use spray adhesive, so you can remove it again in the future.

#1088 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Just use spray adhesive, so you can remove it again in the future.

Could you do that with the non-sticking circle mylar pop-bumper protectors as well?

#1089 4 years ago
Quoted from Anth:

In my experience this was not the case. I laid it on thick, as in a whole can, and it leveled and dried super glossy with no orange peel. I did get a can with a bad nozzle that gave me some heinous orange peel though. Watch out for that.

My second try laying it on thick like that wasn't so successful. I guess it is the luck of the draw with how steady the pressure and clear is out of the can, which is why the paint sprayer is still the best method.

#1090 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Just use spray adhesive, so you can remove it again in the future.

This is pretty clever. Would 3M spraymount work in this situation?

#1091 4 years ago

I have just tested what ball rail's my game have (First clearcoat project and following this thread).
It seems impossible to remove them without cracking a little around it and loosing a little paint with the wood.
Should I put some bondo in the holes or what should I do?

Billede 10-08-14 16.34.36.jpg Billede 10-08-14 16.37.52.jpg
#1092 4 years ago
Quoted from PhilGreg:

Could you do that with the non-sticking circle mylar pop-bumper protectors as well?

Spray is usually yellowish looking, so it might not be the best for clear Mylar.

A double sided clear bonding tape would be better for clear Mylar

#1093 4 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

This is pretty clever. Would 3M spraymount work in this situation?

Probably, as long as it is chemically compatible with the playfield and the polyester.

#1094 4 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Vid, I have a Black Hole with the non-adhesive pop mylars. The wood is worn badly under each one. I removed them.
As you know Black Hole has a complex blue / light blue / black pattern covering the playfield. I'm not at the stage of learning restoration where I'm ready to re-paint on a PF yet. 1-2 years from now I'll dive in.
In your experience what is the best visual way to cover up the worn art under the pops before applying mylar in a simple matter that I can apply to all three pops? I was wondering if there is such thing as a black or blue mylar, so that I have plain coherent circles of "a color" under each pop.
thanks,
mof

If you find a color, or your temp fix post it up! My pops have bad wear at one as well.

#1095 4 years ago

Update on Molotow Black acrylic marker: My Comet playfield has been sitting curing in my basement now for 2 weeks. The Molotow Black acrylic marker I used for the inserts and lines has not blurred or reacted to the 2-part auto Spraymax 2k I laid down on it. Lines stayed sharp. So for anyone that wants to use these paint markers, I'd recommend it as it saves a ton of time.

#1096 4 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

Update on Molotow Black acrylic marker: My Comet playfield has been sitting curing in my basement now for 2 weeks. The Molotow Black acrylic marker I used for the inserts and lines has not blurred or reacted to the 2-part auto Spraymax 2k I laid down on it. Lines stayed sharp. So for anyone that wants to use these paint markers, I'd recommend it as it saves a ton of time.

Where did you get them? Ed

#1097 4 years ago

Well here is my first playfield clear coat. After a very harsh wet sanding/polishing learning curve I finally decided to spray another coat and start with a clean slate. Everything worked much smoother after that, and it was a good excuse to try out the HF spray gun that I bought a while back. It's not perfect but without this thread it would have definitely come out much worse. Thanks for the guide Vid and everyone else that's contributed.
t2cc.JPG

#1098 4 years ago

A little bit off topic, but does anyone have any pictures of a playfield restored with clear coat and a playfield restored with new mylar overlay? I am curious in seeing the end product / contrast with both options.

#1099 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Looks good enough.

Would I be able to use the HF Airbrush with this compressor, or will I need a smaller, lesser-powered one? Not excited about needing to own two compressors. :/

#1100 4 years ago
Quoted from UvulaBob:

Would I be able to use the HF Airbrush with this compressor, or will I need a smaller, lesser-powered one? Not excited about needing to own two compressors. :/

A single large compressor is all you need.

An inline regulator for each type of gun will let you 'set it and forget it' as far as air pressure.

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