(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

By vid1900

11 years ago


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Topic index (key posts)

143 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 8,788 posts in this topic. You are on page 175 of 176.
#8701 84 days ago

I have a CPR Flash Gordon playfield that I bought 10 years ago for a restore, and now ready to populate it. I have read in some of the forums that I should have it sprayed with more clear coat. Is there reason for this?

#8702 84 days ago
Quoted from Enochsmoken:

I have a CPR Flash Gordon playfield that I bought 10 years ago for a restore, and now ready to populate it. I have read in some of the forums that I should have it sprayed with more clear coat. Is there reason for this?

If its very old, its likely that the inserts have moved a bit or have "shrunken" to give them a "cupped" appearance.

Re-setting the inserts and filling the "low" areas of the playfield with clear coat is a way to correct age related problems.

#8703 84 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

If its very old, its likely that the inserts have moved a bit or have "shrunken" to give them a "cupped" appearance.
Re-setting the inserts and filling the "low" areas of the playfield with clear coat is a way to correct age related problems.

I'm not sure if the inserts have moved or shrunken. Would I be able to see the cupped appearance or feel it? I do feel a very slight ridge or something when I move my finger across them.

#8704 84 days ago
Quoted from Enochsmoken:

I have a CPR Flash Gordon playfield that I bought 10 years ago for a restore, and now ready to populate it. I have read in some of the forums that I should have it sprayed with more clear coat. Is there reason for this?

Like anything, it depends on what you want for your outcome.

When you buy a new car, the paint is kinda orange-peel. It's OK, but not the mirror look of a show car. A show car is blocked and then cleared and polished.

Those CPR playfields have more clearcoat than the original FG playfield did; but if you want that deep, mirror finish clear like you see on all the fancy restores - you got to add more clear and correct any gaps/unevenness around the inserts.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/what-to-expect-from-a-new-cpr-playfield

The extra coat of clear also protects the high-wear sections, like the shooter lane.

IMG_20200813_200658~2.jpgIMG_20200813_200658~2.jpg
#8705 84 days ago
Quoted from Enochsmoken:

I'm not sure if the inserts have moved or shrunken. Would I be able to see the cupped appearance or feel it? I do feel a very slight ridge or something when I move my finger across them.

You can easily see variations in the surface with overhead lamps shining on it.

Especially around the inserts.

the only reason that this is an issue is that slow moving balls can be deflected by cupped inserts or raised edges.

All of this is corrected with a new coating of several coats of clear, and sanding flat betwen coats.

#8706 82 days ago

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If you live in a real house, not controlled by HOA fascists, you can use it as a greenhouse too.

Use secret code = P3935V for half off discount

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#8707 78 days ago

Well this is unfortunate.

Flash Gordon playfield that just wrapped up after 3 years of work. Been in service for about a week and looks like the clear is lifting off the insert in front of the left spinner, I'm assuming from ball impacts on the spinner itself.

Only thing I can think of is from the original arrow insert being recessed slightly that it did not get roughed up enough compared to the surrounding area when work was done. And I was pretty aggressive at times sanding even using 220 grit in the white areas to see how long it would take to burn through to the color.

I'll monitor it for now and see how much further it progresses.
20240129_160756 (resized).jpg20240129_160756 (resized).jpg

#8708 78 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Well this is unfortunate.
Flash Gordon playfield that just wrapped up after 3 years of work. Been in service for about a week and looks like the clear is lifting off the insert in front of the left spinner, I'm assuming from ball impacts on the spinner itself.
Only thing I can think of is from the original arrow insert being recessed slightly that it did not get roughed up enough compared to the surrounding area when work was done. And I was pretty aggressive at times sanding even using 220 grit in the white areas to see how long it would take to burn through to the color.
I'll monitor it for now and see how much further it progresses.
[quoted image]

Looks like the old lacquer was checked/crazed before clearcoating?

wax, put a mylar over it, and see if anything else starts to lift anywhere on the playfield over the next few months.

#8709 78 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Looks like the old lacquer was checked/crazed before clearcoating?
wax, put a mylar over it, and see if anything else starts to lift anywhere on the playfield over the next few months.

Yes though I block sanded it down as far as I dared, hence the 220 grit in white area. I'm assuming I did not rough up the insert edges enough as it was sunk below the edge of the playfield and the clear broke loose after multiple ball impacts.

Been playing the hell out of it, wicked fast and the left spinner orbit shot is my favorite, particularly when the arrow is lit.

#8710 73 days ago

Don't want to clutter this thread with a tangent, but relevant and interested in anything those who frequent this one might add:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/best-way-to-create-files-for-laser-cutting#post-8012089

Also, if anyone happens to have vector files made for common inserts already, gimme a shout...still looking for the best way to generate them though, as I've got some oddballs to do.

#8711 68 days ago

Hey all! I recently bought my first older game, Gottlieb's Black Hole, and I'm wondering if it would be possible to do spot touch ups on a couple areas where the wood is exposed without going through a full restoration and clearcoating process. Most of the factory mylar is in good shape and I'd like to avoid removing it if possible until I am ready for a full restore.

I'm wondering if using the magic eraser to remove the existing topcoat, touching up with the paints suggested in this guide, and covering that with wax and new mylar would suffice? That is until I get the courage for a full restoration sometime in the future

Attached is an example on the lower playfield where the wood is visible.

IMG_3299 (resized).jpegIMG_3299 (resized).jpeg

#8712 68 days ago

Touch up with paint and try to get a mylar pop ring in there.

#8713 68 days ago
Quoted from Garrett:

Touch up with paint and try to get a mylar pop ring in there.

An adhesive mylar ring, not the floating junk Gottlieb used.

#8714 68 days ago

I have a NOS Egg Head playfield that a previous owner cleared with automotive clear coat.

However the grid of inserts are somewhat sunken -- think I have to reclear and try to level them off.

Is the technique to eyedropper in clear then spray the playfield right after? On a previous playfield I dripped clear but let it dry and it was a bugger to make it blend.

I guess I should ensure the inserts are also not going to move any more by adding some superglue?

#8715 68 days ago
Quoted from John_In_WI:

An adhesive mylar ring, not the floating junk Gottlieb used.

That's what caused the wear! I removed it before taking the picture I posted.

#8716 68 days ago

A follow-up question: if I decide to pull the mylar and use the magic eraser to remove ball swirls (this exposing the paint to wear), would installing a playfield protector suffice? Or does stripping the topcoat always necessitate clearcoating?

https://www.playfield-protectors.com/Home/Details/F6pBenK3oUOl3-PdR7yyrA?catgoryid=22&name=Black%20Hole%20%7C%201981%20%7C%20Playfield%20Protector is the protector set I am thinking of.

Thanks again!

#8717 68 days ago
Quoted from EntityClay:

That's what caused the wear! I removed it before taking the picture I posted.

That was an acetate pop ring. They are not adhesive backed mylar. Gottlieb liked the acetates for some reason, they go way back to their EM era.

#8718 68 days ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

I have a NOS Egg Head playfield that a previous owner cleared with automotive clear coat.
However the grid of inserts are somewhat sunken -- think I have to reclear and try to level them off.
Is the technique to eyedropper in clear then spray the playfield right after? On a previous playfield I dripped clear but let it dry and it was a bugger to make it blend.
I guess I should ensure the inserts are also not going to move any more by adding some superglue?

Reinforce the inserts with epoxy from behind. Put it on a toothpick and do the perimeter where the plastic meets wood.

I found it best to drip in clear after you spray. If you drip first the blast of spray can displace the clear you pooled up. It also make it easier to see your low spots when you have a layer of wet clear down.

Post some pics of that Egg Head. Sounds awesome!

2 weeks later
#8719 51 days ago

I'm digging through this thread again and while the info is great, as are the keyed posts, it's really tough to find some specifics and "put it all together" due to the constant interjections and tangents which you deal with so graciously throughout. It would be a huge boon to the hobby if at some point all key the info got published somewhere in a straight, organized article format. Huge chunk of time on your part though, so fair enough.

In the meantime, can you summarize your process for prep prior to laying down that first coat of clear? Specifically what materials/methods to rough up for adhesion without damaging the art, prior to a thorough clean with naptha (or whatever you recommend), how you assess after this step if it's "ready to clear." I read the bit about dremel/sanding inside the holes and slots; I presume this is to help with adhesion at the edges....any other checklist items before a first coat? Sincere apologies if it's already here somewhere, I've just been digging around all morning without coming up with it.

Info is bound to be in here but damned if I can find it. Getting my first one ready to go as soon as I catch wear weather (also, what's the coolest temp you'd consider clearing in?)

#8720 51 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Info is bound to be in here but damned if I can find it. Getting my first one ready to go as soon as I catch wear weather (also, what's the coolest temp you'd consider clearing in?)

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/20#post-1795975

#8722 51 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

JFK, I looked through the keyed post list 5 times, lol. Thanks.

Ha, there's A LOT of'em!

#8723 51 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

It would be a huge boon to the hobby if at some point all key the info got published somewhere in a straight, organized article format. Huge chunk of time on your part though, so fair enough.

Yeah, I've been taking some better pics and working on some new sections; so at some point I might ask Robin to lock the thread, long enough for me to assemble a 'start to finish' guide. I've got some examples if **adhesion promoters** actually do anything for us or not, isocyanate chip repairs and other icing on the cake stuff.

I might do an OnlyFans, where you can ask questions in real time, see real examples (assuming I have a game of that vintage in my collection), something on the workbench or oscilloscope and of course take a look at my member.

#8724 51 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Yeah, I've been taking some better pics and working on some new sections; so at some point I might ask Robin to lock the thread, long enough for me to assemble a 'start to finish' guide. I've got some examples if **adhesion promoters** actually do anything for us or not, isocyanate chip repairs and other icing on the cake stuff.
I might do an OnlyFans, where you can ask questions in real time, see real examples (assuming I have a game of that vintage in my collection), something on the workbench or oscilloscope and of course take a look at my member.

This would be awesome! I started my restoration 7 months ago and will hopefully be done in the next couple weeks. I think I made it into the 130s before I gave up reading every post and page. This thread and many others are a wealth of knowledge.

I appreciate all your posts, thank you!

#8725 51 days ago

Put all of Vid’s guides into a book. Self publish on Amazon and I’d buy one

1 week later
#8726 44 days ago

Is there a good technique to repaint text?
Ive tried it 3x and keep end up wiping it off bc is looks crappy.

IMG_2646 (resized).jpegIMG_2646 (resized).jpeg
#8727 44 days ago
Quoted from topkat:

Is there a good technique to repaint text?
Ive tried it 3x and keep end up wiping it off bc is looks crappy.
[quoted image]

Scan text, find the font by uploading to 'What The Font' website

Using white decal paper, print the blue field around the text.

Cut decals close to the lettering, so you don't notice if the blue is slightly different.

Apply, then clear over to protect.

Page 3 of this thread:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/3#post-633606

#8728 43 days ago

I'm helping a local owner/operator keep this Stranger Things LE from getting worse. I've been following this thread, but I'm not sure how to proceed here.

20240301_160448 (resized).jpg20240301_160448 (resized).jpg

I though about filling in the missing black area with some black nail polish, then putting a mylar square over this insert. There are a few more arrows that look like this, but this one is the worst.

I also bought the thin superglue with micro needle applicators to try and lock down the others that are starting to ghost.

20240301_131123 (resized).jpg20240301_131123 (resized).jpg

The goal here is to put it back on route and keep it from getting worse. It doesn't have to be perfect. Thanks for the input!

#8729 43 days ago

Like always, there is no excellent quick fix

But a few coats of glue hopefully will work

If you could epoxy from backside, would even be better

#8730 43 days ago

Pretty substantial orange peel on my first coat - on me, I left the can somewhere cold prior to spraying, didn't think about it, pretty sure that's why (did the small upper of earlier that day with it at room temp, no issues).

What would you start with sanding to knock this back down? Pic is after a little time with 400, which did the trick getting a nice big drip knocked down. I'll be clearing more after touch-up so no biggie, just don't want to get carried away and hit paint or anything. 25 hours out, spraymax.
PXL_20240304_203555066 (resized).jpgPXL_20240304_203555066 (resized).jpg

#8731 43 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Pretty substantial orange peel on my first coat - on me, I left the can somewhere cold prior to spraying, didn't think about it, pretty sure that's why (did the small upper of earlier that day with it at room temp, no issues).
What would you start with sanding to knock this back down? Pic is after a little time with 400, which did the trick getting a nice big drip knocked down. I'll be clearing more after touch-up so no biggie, just don't want to get carried away and hit paint or anything. 25 hours out, spraymax.
[quoted image]

Unwanted texture (orange peel) isnt a big problem early on.

there will be several coats of clear that will cover it easily.

I machine sand (damp with 1tsp Dawn to 1 qt filtered water, cleaning the pad and surface when needed, DONT let it dry out and dig in) with 550 to 600 on a DA polisher at about a meduim speed (no pressing, let the tool do the work) with an interface pad for the velcro sanding disks between coats. Just BE CAREFUL, keep the tool flat, no digging with an edge (at least until you get a feel for the tool).

I wash it all clean with naptha and a little sparkle window cleaner ( a LITTLE).

Later for finish I just cascade up the grits to 5000, then polish with foam pads then wool.

Machine sanding (with care and common sense) does a better job and you can alway go back a few grits rapidly to solve a scratch or high area.

You will be surprised how aggressive clearcoat is. Its not SOFT and you dont have to be afraid of using power tools on it.

If you dont want to buy a lot of tools, the 6" Bauer polisher at harbor freight works really well on playfields.
They stock all the sanding pads and polishing pads along with liquid compounds.

One tool will do the sanding and the polishing with professional results.

https://www.harborfreight.com/57-amp-6-in-short-throw-random-orbit-da-polishersander-64528.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12189147054&campaignid=12189147054&utm_content=123858115424&adsetid=123858115424&product=64528&store=2945&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiA_5WvBhBAEiwAZtCU74NSjZLoebuwe25wiU24Os0QWSVBa8n3mniugQuqpwrC55DO_lxpTBoCp3kQAvD_BwE

#8732 43 days ago

Thanks. So are you saying I don't need to be concerned with the texture before hitting another layer? My concern is adhesion of additional coats if valleys don't really get sanded

#8733 43 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Thanks. So are you saying I don't need to be concerned with the texture before hitting another layer? My concern is adhesion of additional coats if valleys don't really get sanded

Sand and degloss it a bit, the sanding gives the clear some "tooth" to lock in to.

Use 800 grit scotchbrite pads (dry) from the auto paint store to get into the small crevices. The playfield should be quite dull between coats with no glossy areas.

If the texture is severe, sand it down about half way, it will be ok.

Rapid-tac rapid-prep will give you insurance as a good cleaner that promotes adhesion before spraying.

I usually wash with rapid-prep and then wipe down with naptha to remove the rapid-prep, then a gentile wipe down with a tack rag in the booth, just minutes before spraying.

#8734 43 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Scan text, find the font by uploading to 'What The Font' website
Using white decal paper, print the blue field around the text.
Cut decals close to the lettering, so you don't notice if the blue is slightly different.
Apply, then clear over to protect.
Page 3 of this thread:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/3#post-633606

A "What the Font" website????
Life altering news! Best tip I've had in forever.

#8735 43 days ago

Roger, I'll take it down a little further then try those pads. The pic is after doing 400 a block to get out some drops, then 800 wet on a block, so some pretty good shiny texture left.

Other issue that could stand input, I've got some gaps around inserts I need to fill - I replaced most of the bad ones with laser cut 1/4" acrylic. I flooded what I saw, but still have some that either need more after setting or I missed. Dropper puddles a lot and may wind up proud, thought maybe a needle would work but it's too thick for a 22g at least. I'm thinking if I flood it as needed before the next coat, then spray that'll help level out stuff with surface tension?

#8736 43 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Roger, I'll take it down a little further then try those pads. The pic is after doing 400 a block to get out some drops, then 800 wet on a block, so some pretty good shiny texture left.
Other issue that could stand input, I've got some gaps around inserts I need to fill - I replaced most of the bad ones with laser cut 1/4" acrylic. I flooded what I saw, but still have some that either need more after setting or I missed. Dropper puddles a lot and may wind up proud, thought maybe a needle would work but it's too thick for a 22g at least. I'm thinking if I flood it as needed before the next coat, then spray that'll help level out stuff with surface tension?

Its ok if the insert puddles are proud, they sand off flat.

however if the inserts are WAY low, and you try to fill them, the paint will die back and they will be low again.

So, its best to level the inserts before painting the get them as high as can be, then dropper fill them.

#8737 42 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Its ok if the insert puddles are proud, they sand off flat.
however if the inserts are WAY low, and you try to fill them, the paint will die back and they will be low again.
So, its best to level the inserts before painting the get them as high as can be, then dropper fill them.

Yeah, this isn't a leveling issue - it's small gaps around the edge of some inserts. I custom cut 1/4" acrylic to replace most of them, but it's impossible to get a "perfect" fit with them...standard inserts are a little large and flex, no flex with solid acrylic. Filling those little gaps is a bit problematic with clear.

In retrospect, a better option might be packing wood putty in any hairline gaps, then sanding flush since I'm redoing key lines anyway. Might actually go ahead and do that...I got maybe half of them filled with clear without it contracting back down and leaving hairline gaps.

#8738 42 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Yeah, this isn't a leveling issue - it's small gaps around the edge of some inserts. I custom cut 1/4" acrylic to replace most of them, but it's impossible to get a "perfect" fit with them...standard inserts are a little large and flex, no flex with solid acrylic. Filling those little gaps is a bit problematic with clear.
In retrospect, a better option might be packing wood putty in any hairline gaps, then sanding flush since I'm redoing key lines anyway. Might actually go ahead and do that...I got maybe half of them filled with clear without it contracting back down and leaving hairline gaps.

I think we saw @HEP do that on the Rocky playfield he is working on right now.

Check out around the 3 minute mark here:

#8739 42 days ago

I was filing a star rollover to remove excess clear and couple of pieces of clear popped off. What is the best way to fix this?

IMG_3141 (resized).JPGIMG_3141 (resized).JPG
#8740 42 days ago
Quoted from dr_nybble:

I think we saw @HEP do that on the Rocky playfield he is working on right now.
Check out around the 3 minute mark here:

Good enough for him, good enough for me, lol

#8741 42 days ago
Quoted from Ollulanus:

Good enough for him, good enough for me, lol

I'm not try to fill gaps. I need to apply clear coat to the areas where it has popped off. Does it have to be sprayed or can I use a small brush. I've never done this before.

#8742 42 days ago
Quoted from Enochsmoken:

I was filing a star rollover to remove excess clear and couple of pieces of clear popped off. What is the best way to fix this?
[quoted image]

I have fixed this with a drop of CA glue wicked beneath the lifted clear.

#8743 42 days ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

I have fixed this with a drop of CA glue wicked beneath the lifted clear.

I can do the under the ones that the clear is still in place but one is completely gone.

#8744 42 days ago
Quoted from Enochsmoken:

I can do the under the ones that the clear is still in place but one is completely gone.

Sometimes you just get poor adhesion over inserts and roll overs, the clear just flakes off.

Its better the find it now instead of later when the game is assembled.

I would scuff it up with 800, flake off any more loose clear, wipe it with rapid prep and drip more clear onto it.

Sand and buff.

#8745 42 days ago
Quoted from topkat:

Is there a good technique to repaint text?

Lots of us these days are using vinyl cutters to make small stencils for this sort of thing.
Similar workflow, you can use a scan and either touch up the lettering digitally or just redo it in pshop or illustrator after identifying the font. If I were doing this I would touch up the blue and probably go right over the existing lettering, then put down the stencil and repaint the text.
Decals are useful but hard to get passable color matches, and there’s more of a risk of delaminating down the line. I still use them but try to be judicious and find alternatives whenever I can.

#8746 41 days ago

I would scuff it up with 800, flake off any more loose clear, wipe it with rapid prep and drip more clear onto it.
Sand and buff.

Scuff up the the star? and what is rapid prep?

Thanks

#8747 41 days ago
Quoted from Enochsmoken:

I would scuff it up with 800, flake off any more loose clear, wipe it with rapid prep and drip more clear onto it.
Sand and buff.
Scuff up the the star? and what is rapid prep?
Thanks

Rapid-prep is an awesome defense against "fish-eyes".

One of the problems with urethane paints is its inability to deal with oils and silicones.

ALL oils and silicones must be removed or the paint will run away from it and leave pock marks or fish eyes.

Rapid prep is commonly used by auto/body shops to chemically clean off imperfections of the surface before spraying modern paints.

Its popular because its non-toxic and you dont have to worry about hazmat disposal issues.

Its not an adhesion promoter per se, but it can perfect the surface over plastic inserts to get better adhesion.

https://www.amazon.com/RapidTac-Surface-Cleaner-Graphics-Sprayer/dp/B006RMQCFW/ref=asc_df_B006RMQCFW/

#8748 41 days ago

If you are cleaning out a clogged star, remember to use down-strokes only.

If you lift up, you are likely to chip the clear.

When I replace star rollovers, I flatten them first with sandpaper, then I leave them at 320 grit so they have a ton of tooth for the clear.

Use old star inserts to keep the clear from clogging while clearcoating.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/19#post-1762011
Pinside_forum_1762038_386370 (resized).jpgPinside_forum_1762038_386370 (resized).jpg

#8749 39 days ago

I love this thread, it’s a great reference guide. Thank you Vid.

I just finished up re-installing inserts in a “practice” playfield. Thought I would share my experience

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/adventures-with-pinballmiked/page/2#post-8066332

#8750 39 days ago

Dumb question. I’m sure it’s been covered. I put down frisket. Cut out shapes to spray , and the stuff left most of the adhesive behind on the playfield. Which took like an hour to clean up. Ugh.

What am I doing wrong. Is this the wrong kind?

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
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