(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

By vid1900

11 years ago


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#8601 3 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Lately, I've been using "Emerald" paint by Sherman Williams.
I roll the cab into the store, the broad 'computer matches' some unfaded section (like under the coin door), they have me out of there in 10 minutes.
If I need more paint in the future, I can order by the mix number on the can's lid.
Way cheaper than rattle cans, the color is an exact match, no toxic fumes and I can clean my gun out with water instead of Lacquer Thinner.[quoted image]

I am in the process of painting an Evel Knievel with Sherwin Williams paints as VID describes. Prep and how you treat all the different layers of paint makes the big difference. I love being able to paint in my basement with no fumes and clean up is a breeze. I had to thin down some of the colors for my spray gun, but no biggie. Here is the red during and after removing stencils.
Mike

PXL_20231107_004449771.MP (resized).jpgPXL_20231107_004449771.MP (resized).jpgPXL_20231107_004459044.MP (resized).jpgPXL_20231107_004459044.MP (resized).jpgPXL_20231107_012655158 (resized).jpgPXL_20231107_012655158 (resized).jpgPXL_20231107_012659086 (resized).jpgPXL_20231107_012659086 (resized).jpg
#8602 3 months ago

Whelp I'm back to the drawing board again.

Second coat came back, I let it sit for 5 days and then started working away at stenciling inserts. The stencils were going down and coming up really well and the results were and are going great:
PXL_20231107_042448113~2 (resized).jpgPXL_20231107_042448113~2 (resized).jpg
PXL_20231107_042527356~2 (resized).jpgPXL_20231107_042527356~2 (resized).jpg

I'm very happy with the fine lettering even.

I hit a couple of very small, very localized areas of clear coat lift (less than 2sqin each) and didn't think too much of it. I attacked the edges and ripped up as much as possible of the weak stuff and it was small.

I then laid down a large piece of stencil to cut some larger colored areas. That's when I noticed noticed that the clear was coming up, queue pulling up anything weak, and the whole top 3rd sheeted off again.
PXL_20231107_133033451 (resized).jpgPXL_20231107_133033451 (resized).jpg

I'm telling you guys I followed all your advice and sanded the crap out of it, there wasn't ANYTHING shiny before I dropped it off. I also cleaned it with alcohol, water and rapid prep before I dropped it off.

Something has to be wrong with his process, so I'm back to the drawing board. Currently debating whether to go spray max or buy a gun setup, the wife isn't thrilled about the wasted clear expense so far.

At least if I fuck it up when I spray it, then I can learn something. I'm pushing through, and I know the results will be worth it, but this is demoralizing....

#8603 3 months ago
Quoted from BMGfan:

Whelp I'm back to the drawing board again.
Second coat came back, I let it sit for 5 days and then started working away at stenciling inserts. The stencils were going down and coming up really well and the results were and are going great:
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
I'm very happy with the fine lettering even.
I hit a couple of very small, very localized areas of clear coat lift (less than 2sqin each) and didn't think too much of it. I attacked the edges and ripped up as much as possible of the weak stuff and it was small.
I then laid down a large piece of stencil to cut some larger colored areas. That's when I noticed noticed that the clear was coming up, queue pulling up anything weak, and the whole top 3rd sheeted off again.
[quoted image]
I'm telling you guys I followed all your advice and sanded the crap out of it, there wasn't ANYTHING shiny before I dropped it off. I also cleaned it with alcohol, water and rapid prep before I dropped it off.
Something has to be wrong with his process, so I'm back to the drawing board. Currently debating whether to go spray max or buy a gun setup, the wife isn't thrilled about the wasted clear expense so far.
At least if I fuck it up when I spray it, then I can learn something. I'm pushing through, and I know the results will be worth it, but this is demoralizing....

I go over the playfield with naptha after rapid prep. I think I read on here that you do rapid prep and then Naptha and then clear.

#8604 3 months ago

Here's my confession. Never cleared before my painting; no lockdown coat, no inter-painting coats. Using Golden High Flow paints. In fact, I have painted two playfields entirely from scratch with this approach. Zero issues with paint pulling up!

#8605 3 months ago
Quoted from BMGfan:

Whelp I'm back to the drawing board again.
Second coat came back, I let it sit for 5 days and then started working away at stenciling inserts. The stencils were going down and coming up really well and the results were and are going great:
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
I'm very happy with the fine lettering even.
I hit a couple of very small, very localized areas of clear coat lift (less than 2sqin each) and didn't think too much of it. I attacked the edges and ripped up as much as possible of the weak stuff and it was small.
I then laid down a large piece of stencil to cut some larger colored areas. That's when I noticed noticed that the clear was coming up, queue pulling up anything weak, and the whole top 3rd sheeted off again.
[quoted image]
I'm telling you guys I followed all your advice and sanded the crap out of it, there wasn't ANYTHING shiny before I dropped it off. I also cleaned it with alcohol, water and rapid prep before I dropped it off.
Something has to be wrong with his process, so I'm back to the drawing board. Currently debating whether to go spray max or buy a gun setup, the wife isn't thrilled about the wasted clear expense so far.
At least if I fuck it up when I spray it, then I can learn something. I'm pushing through, and I know the results will be worth it, but this is demoralizing....

What are you using for surface prep before spraying.

Delamination is usually due to poor surface prep or contaminents on the surface, or short dry times.

After scuffing I use rapid-prep followed by naptha, wiped off with kirkland paper towels.

Then air blow off the surface, then gently wipe with blue surgical tac cloths.

When spraying do a Mist coat wait 7 mins, medium coat wait 7 mins then a wet finish coat.

This is the same whether I use my gun or Spraymax.

Spraymax has a longer dry time than regular omni clear or its equivalent, like 2 weeks at 72 degrees.

I set my gun to 20 or 21 psi

#8606 3 months ago
Quoted from John_In_WI:

Do you need to thin before spraying?

Depends on the tip size you use.

If your gun has a 1.5mm or larger tip, you should be good.

If you have a $9.99 gun, you can drill out the tip to 2mm and shoot even high-build primer

But don't worry, if you have to thin it, you just thin it. Nothing difficult about thinning paint.

#8607 3 months ago
Quoted from BMGfan:

I'm telling you guys I followed all your advice and sanded the crap out of it, there wasn't ANYTHING shiny before I dropped it off. I also cleaned it with alcohol, water and rapid prep before I dropped it off.

Something has to be wrong with his process, so I'm back to the drawing board.

Does it smell like solvent?

#8608 3 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

After scuffing I use rapid-prep followed by naptha, wiped off with kirkland paper towels.

This was more or less what I did. Sanded to 400, Naptha x2, then rapid prep (carefully following the directions, I even set a timer), and then tack cloth (that claimed being silicone/wax free). Cleaning was done with standard kitchen paper towels.

Quoted from pinballinreno:

When spraying do a Mist coat wait 7 mins, medium coat wait 7 mins then a wet finish coat.

This is the same whether I use my gun or Spraymax.

Spraymax has a longer dry time than regular omni clear or its equivalent, like 2 weeks at 72 degrees.

I set my gun to 20 or 21 psi

This was the black box. I have no idea what buddy used for product, or his exact method, or any of the other fine details. He was vague when I asked.

I found out from other folks at my makerspace that in the province or city I'm it's illegal to sell clear to us pleebs. It makes a LOT more sense now why no one will sell it to me locally.

So now I have two options:
Option 1: Someone at my makerspace gave me some Endura EX2C Clear 100 of unknown age. I'd have to do a test shoot to see how it is but it appears to be an option that's inline with other urethane clears. The Hardner it came with is "Special B" that is "for use for high viscosity brush and roll applications" per the TDS. I do have reducer with it. Lot of unknowns for me here and the Hardner it came with doesn't sound promising, but it's an option. TDS pdf link: https://www.endurapaint.com/wp-content/uploads/TDS/EX_2C_CLEAR_100_TDS_2.0.pdf

Option 2: Spraymax 2k. All the downsides of a rattle can. But I can actually get it (why I can get spraymax, but literally can't buy autoclear from dealers is wild to me but whatever). It's also a relatively known quantity with fairly well documented pros and cons.

Both are not great options, but that's what I've got at the moment. I have next week off so I'm going to try and shoot..... something then at the makerspace spray booth we setup.

#8609 3 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Does it smell like solvent?

It did not, and I put my nose right up to it. But hey this is my first rodeo so maybe I'm just dumb (not sarcastic at all)

All the clear TDSs I've seen suggests "tape time" of 2-8 hours, I let it sit for several days before applying the stencil material. I would think it should be setup enough. The stencil material is pretty low tack, and on the lower 2/3 I haven't had issues with the clear coming up really.

#8610 3 months ago
Quoted from BMGfan:

Cleaning was done with standard kitchen paper towels.

I don't really think this is your problem, but it is worth mentioning that most kitchen paper towels are treated with a chemical to aid absorption that leaves behind a residue. If you've ever tried to clean a piece of glass streak-free with one you've seen the effects of that chemical. There are paper towels specifically labeled for glass that do not contain this.

#8611 3 months ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

I don't really think this is your problem, but it is worth mentioning that most kitchen paper towels are treated with a chemical to aid absorption that leaves behind a residue. If you've ever tried to clean a piece of glass streak-free with one you've seen the effects of that chemical. There are paper towels specifically labeled for glass that do not contain this.

My local auto restoration place uses Kirkland paper towels, So thats what I use and have had no issues with them.

#8612 3 months ago
Quoted from BMGfan:

This was more or less what I did. Sanded to 400, Naptha x2, then rapid prep (carefully following the directions, I even set a timer), and then tack cloth (that claimed being silicone/wax free). Cleaning was done with standard kitchen paper towels.

.

I restored and cleared 3 playfields without problems in the clear applying section. after block sanding , as a last step , all I used to clean the playfield was lint free cloths ( usually old clean bed sheet ) saturated in naphta.
I wipe the whole playfield in a single motion from top to bottom. I do it 3 times with 3 different clothes.

#8613 3 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Lately, I've been using "Emerald" paint by Sherman Williams.
I roll the cab into the store, the broad 'computer matches' some unfaded section (like under the coin door), they have me out of there in 10 minutes.
If I need more paint in the future, I can order by the mix number on the can's lid.
Way cheaper than rattle cans, the color is an exact match, no toxic fumes and I can clean my gun out with water instead of Lacquer Thinner.[quoted image]

Thank you for sharing your information with me.
Really appreciate it.

#8614 3 months ago
Quoted from packie1:

I am in the process of painting an Evel Knievel with Sherwin Williams paints as VID describes. Prep and how you treat all the different layers of paint makes the big difference. I love being able to paint in my basement with no fumes and clean up is a breeze. I had to thin down some of the colors for my spray gun, but no biggie. Here is the red during and after removing stencils.
Mike
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Thank you for showing me some of your cabinet process. Really appreciate it.

2 weeks later
#8615 3 months ago

So I'm back in business thankfully. I went with the Spraymax option to eliminate as many variables as I could.

I prepped the same way I did prior but did Naptha after the rapid prep.

I attacked the edges of the clear as much as I could with a razor and brought up anything week from the last failed coat. I put down two coats of the spraymax over 2 days and sanded in between coats.

It's been excellent comparatively. Almost nothing has come up, maybe ~4sqin total since. All of it is connected to the edge of a hole, or the edge of the playfield. And the spots are small. I'll just really focus on the hole edges when I prep for the next coat. (You can see the two biggest spots of lost clear next to the right pop in the after pic). I've been attacking the edges quite a bit and I'm sure I'm in the clear, I know exactly why those two chunks came up.

Touch ups have been going well, and I'm well on the way! The next big hurdle is getting my half tone decals sorted out and ready to apply after leveling and clearing again.

Before clear and after some touchups (still a work in progress:
bd2c1762d7ab7cd10fd629f189e29e7cf2476ffc_2_1326x1000 (resized).jpegbd2c1762d7ab7cd10fd629f189e29e7cf2476ffc_2_1326x1000 (resized).jpeg
PXL_20231120_234555246~3 (resized).jpgPXL_20231120_234555246~3 (resized).jpg

#8616 3 months ago

Hey vid1900 and pinheads

I’m restoring a playfield and wondering what is the best way of getting rid of or at least minimising these small cracks in the shooter lane
I’ve already sanded but want to be careful not to take away too much wood and ruin the shooter lane altogether
Im assuming some type of airbrushing will be required

IMG_6687 (resized).jpegIMG_6687 (resized).jpeg

#8617 3 months ago
Quoted from joshmc:

Hey vid1900 and pinheads
I’m restoring a playfield and wondering what is the best way of getting rid of or at least minimising these small cracks in the shooter lane
I’ve already sanded but want to be careful not to take away too much wood and ruin the shooter lane altogether
Im assuming some type of airbrushing will be required
[quoted image]

Vid has a through guide on this .

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/3#post-640071

#8618 3 months ago

I think the cracks in the shooter lane present a more challenging issue than what is described by vid1900 in that post. But maybe I’m wrong
I’m thinking that filling and painting the shooter lane is the only way to fix this however I don’t know what created colours I would need to match the colour of the wood

IMG_6687 (resized).jpegIMG_6687 (resized).jpeg
#8619 3 months ago
Quoted from joshmc:

I think the cracks in the shooter lane present a more challenging issue than what is described by vid1900 in that post. But maybe I’m wrong
I’m thinking that filling and painting the shooter lane is the only way to fix this however I don’t know what created colours I would need to match the colour of the wood
[quoted image]

I think you're over thinking this. I followed Vid directions and created this with just a darker color and a stencil for a Bally 8 ball.
Mike

IMG_5656 (resized).JPGIMG_5656 (resized).JPG
#8620 3 months ago
Quoted from packie1:

I think you're over thinking this. I followed Vid directions and created this with just a darker color and a stencil for a Bally 8 ball.
Mike[quoted image]

Great idea! How far up does yours go? I.e. up around the arch at the top

#8621 3 months ago

I'd wipe it with naphtha to see how it would look as is under clear coat. Probably will look good vs recreating wood grain with paint.

packie1 idea is cool too!

#8622 3 months ago
Quoted from packie1:

I think you're over thinking this. I followed Vid directions and created this with just a darker color and a stencil for a Bally 8 ball.
Mike[quoted image]

Great idea! How far up does yours go? I.e. up around the arch at the top

Quoted from Barr993:

I'd wipe it with naphtha to see how it would look as is under clear coat. Probably will look good vs recreating wood grain with paint.
packie1 idea is cool too!

worse after wiping with naptha. cracks are more prominent

#8623 3 months ago
Quoted from joshmc:

worse after wiping with naptha. cracks are more prominent

Yeah, that's an **interesting** layer of wood.

Paint the lane light brown, then do a dark brown "arrow head" on top like earlier in the thread.

That's how 99% of all shooter lanes look, so the eye won't be drawn to it.

#8624 89 days ago
Quoted from joshmc:

Great idea! How far up does yours go? I.e. up around the arch at the top

worse after wiping with naptha. cracks are more prominent

Just that inner arrow in the shooter lane. I did not to attract too much attention to the shooter lane. Never thought about doing the arch. I assume you are referring to the wear that happens in that ball travel area. I know that I have seen older games where that portion was painted as part of the artwork. Never thought to try and revive that back on some newer titles. I may have to try that on an upcoming game.
Mike

#8625 89 days ago
Quoted from packie1:

Just that inner arrow in the shooter lane. I did not to attract too much attention to the shooter lane. Never thought about doing the arch. I assume you are referring to the wear that happens in that ball travel area. I know that I have seen older games where that portion was painted as part of the artwork. Never thought to try and revive that back on some newer titles. I may have to try that on an upcoming game.
Mike

Also, what you’ve done works for 8 Ball. I have a Playboy. A painting in the shooter lane of an extra long d@&& perhaps?

#8626 89 days ago

Last pic of how I did the shooter lane with brown paint and white painted stencil.
FYI the playfield is original, all I did was follow Vid's guide.
Mike

IMG_5631 (resized).JPGIMG_5631 (resized).JPG
#8627 85 days ago

Hoping to get some advice stat. For one reason or another when I shot my second coat of 2PAC, “chunks” of clear were shot onto the field, additionally, parts of the field have a matte finish from a dry spray effect. Needless to say I am going to repair and shoot another coat. My question is should I dry sand the field, or wet sand? If so which grit would you start with and stop with? I am not even 24 hours post spray and will be sanding tonight in the 24-48 hour window. Thanks for any info someone can give me.

#8628 85 days ago

Dry sand everything as flat possible without hitting paint. You might even consider using a razor to shave down those chunks if they are very proud.

Quoted from Mjt311:

Hoping to get some advice stat. For one reason or another when I shot my second coat of 2PAC, “chunks” of clear were shot onto the field, additionally, parts of the field have a matte finish from a dry spray effect. Needless to say I am going to repair and shoot another coat. My question is should I dry sand the field, or wet sand? If so which grit would you start with and stop with? I am not even 24 hours post spray and will be sanding tonight in the 24-48 hour window. Thanks for any info someone can give me.

#8629 85 days ago

Chunks of clear is usually a sign that the gun was not cleaned out properly from the last use.

A film of clear remained, and then was softened by the new batch.

#8630 85 days ago
Quoted from A_Bord:

Dry sand everything as flat possible without hitting paint. You might even consider using a razor to shave down those chunks if they are very proud.

I don't think I would try shaving a blob with a razor on a playfield that was just cleared, it's likely still too soft.

#8631 85 days ago
Quoted from NYP:

I don't think I would try shaving a blob with a razor on a playfield that was just cleared, it's likely still too soft.

I have done it, you don't have to wait terribly long for it to be hard enough.

#8632 85 days ago

Anyone have any tips for what to do with these inserts? When the playfield was turned upside down all were loose enough to fall out but one. I got new ones coming for the others but can’t find new ones for these rollovers. I sanded smooth to 1000 but they seem to have shrunk a little like all the others on the 1959 Rocket. You think they will be fine if I can glue them flat with the playfield, or will the clearcoat seep between and mound up real bad. Also how does the clear do over the indention in that button insert? Will the new button sit in there flat?

IMG_3021 (resized).jpegIMG_3021 (resized).jpegimage0 (resized).jpegimage0 (resized).jpeg
#8633 84 days ago
Quoted from stlkevin02:

Anyone have any tips for what to do with these inserts?

I would try to find someone who could 3D print reproductions of those. From your photo those are way to deformed at this point to be decently anchored to the playfield.

Should be pretty easy for someone with a decent entry level ability with 3D software and a printer.

#8634 84 days ago
Quoted from sethbenjamin:

I would try to find someone who could 3D print reproductions of those. From your photo those are way to deformed at this point to be decently anchored to the playfield.
Should be pretty easy for someone with a decent entry level ability with 3D software and a printer.

I tinkered with it last night and was able to make one that fit perfectly. Now I’m waiting on the right color filament to arrive. I was still curious how clearcoating the playfield with an insert like that will go. Will the clear just fill up that indent in the middle and cause a hill instead of it being flat on the inside?

#8635 84 days ago
Quoted from stlkevin02:

I tinkered with it last night and was able to make one that fit perfectly. Now I’m waiting on the right color filament to arrive. I was still curious how clearcoating the playfield with an insert like that will go. Will the clear just fill up that indent in the middle and cause a hill instead of it being flat on the inside?

Deep depressions should be filled first.

#8636 84 days ago
Quoted from Garrett:

Deep depressions should be filled first.

I don’t want it to be filled. It is supposed to have an indention for the rollover button to sit in when it’s depressed.

#8637 84 days ago

I meant to fill the low area where the insert meets the playfield

#8638 84 days ago
Quoted from stlkevin02:

I tinkered with it last night and was able to make one that fit perfectly. Now I’m waiting on the right color filament to arrive. I was still curious how clearcoating the playfield with an insert like that will go. Will the clear just fill up that indent in the middle and cause a hill instead of it being flat on the inside?

If this link works. Someone in the 3D printing thread created a model for these. Maybe they would share the stl.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/3d-printing-sharing-thread-lets-better-the-hobby/page/97#post-7751720

#8639 84 days ago
Quoted from stlkevin02:

Will the clear just fill up that indent in the middle and cause a hill instead of it being flat on the inside?

It might. I’d maybe mask it and then pull the masking before the clear sets up.
Could also just spray and see. If the clear affects the action, you can always scrape it back with a sharp chisel.

#8640 84 days ago

I'd mask anything you don't want filling with clear.

#8641 83 days ago

I’m quite certain I know the answer to this but thought I’d ask just in case. I plan on restoring this playfield. It’s been cleaned with solvent and non solvent based cleaner. I clear coated it with two coats ten minutes apart last night however there are still small areas of the playfield where general wear and tear through play has resulted in some spots being lower than others. I thought the clear might have evened it out but it didn’t. I was planning on lightly sanding with 320 grit on the DA then shooting again

IMG_6795 (resized).jpegIMG_6795 (resized).jpegIMG_6796 (resized).jpegIMG_6796 (resized).jpeg
#8642 83 days ago

Is Naphtha no longer being produced? It's sold out everywhere that would possibly sell it locally to me, and I'm seeing the same online. Except for Amazon that has it at $45 for a gallon.

Trying to clean and wax all my machines ahead of family visiting and I'm stuck at the first step. Ran out of what I had that I bought years ago the last time I cleaned.

#8643 83 days ago
Quoted from cookpins:

Is Naphtha no longer being produced? It's sold out everywhere that would possibly sell it locally to me, and I'm seeing the same online. Except for Amazon that has it at $45 for a gallon.
Trying to clean and wax all my machines ahead of family visiting and I'm stuck at the first step. Ran out of what I had that I bought years ago the last time I cleaned.

After more research, it seems like it may no longer be for sale in OH due to the VOC? I can't find this for certain but I suspect that is the case.

Edit: I'll pickup some Camp Fuel/White Gas instead.

#8644 83 days ago
Quoted from cookpins:

After more research, it seems like it may no longer be for sale in OH due to the VOC? I can't find this for certain but I suspect that is the case.
Edit: I'll pickup some Camp Fuel/White Gas instead.

CT as well, I picked up a view quarts off Amazon. You may have problems with the camp fuel too, watch the formulation.

#8645 83 days ago
Quoted from joshmc:

I’m quite certain I know the answer to this but thought I’d ask just in case. I plan on restoring this playfield. It’s been cleaned with solvent and non solvent based cleaner. I clear coated it with two coats ten minutes apart last night however there are still small areas of the playfield where general wear and tear through play has resulted in some spots being lower than others. I thought the clear might have evened it out but it didn’t. I was planning on lightly sanding with 320 grit on the DA then shooting again
[quoted image][quoted image]

you can drop fill with clear the low spots now , before sanding , since the last clear coat is relatively fresh. Wait another week at least for the clear to set and then sand and recheck for lows.

#8646 83 days ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

CT as well, I picked up a view quarts off Amazon. You may have problems with the camp fuel too, watch the formulation.

What should I be looking for in the formula? And is this the brand you got off Amazon? I've not used it before but assume its all the same as Klean Strip

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
#8647 82 days ago
Quoted from cookpins:

What should I be looking for in the formula? And is this the brand you got off Amazon? I've not used it before but assume its all the same as Klean Strip[quoted image]

That's the brand I've always found at Menards in MN and never had any issues with it in my limited uses.

#8648 82 days ago
Quoted from cookpins:

What should I be looking for in the formula? And is this the brand you got off Amazon? I've not used it before but assume its all the same as Klean Strip[quoted image]

I use it all the time.
Mike

#8649 82 days ago
Quoted from cookpins:

Is Naphtha no longer being produced? It's sold out everywhere that would possibly sell it locally to me, and I'm seeing the same online.

It was in and out of stock for a while, but it looks like it's starting to come back...

Screenshot 2023-12-08 at 20-13-16 Search Results for naphtha - Ace Hardware (resized).pngScreenshot 2023-12-08 at 20-13-16 Search Results for naphtha - Ace Hardware (resized).png
#8650 82 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It was in and out of stock for a while, but it looks like it's starting to come back...
[quoted image]

I overpaid off Amazon. A gallon was cheaper than the equivalent in quarts of the other brand. At least it comes next day and will last me a long while. Also got my P21S in. Time for some slightly over due cleaning.

Really appreciate this thread.

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