Bobby Orr's Power Play
Bally, 1978
Gilligan's Island
Bally, 1991
Space Jam
Sega, 1996Are there any national chain brick and mortar stores that sell frisket in sheets or rolls? I've found plenty of places online to buy it, just curious if there might be a store I could just walk in a choose from a selection of different offerings. Plus, I'm old school. I like paying for something and receiving it right then and there. 
Quoted from A_Bord:That's the plan. Maybe my question wasn't clear. I'm wondering if getting some lighter paint in the planking before the first clear application might make my life easier when going to airbrush.
Oh I misinterpret the question.
No need to locally and selectively use white to lighten the dark planking before the clear .. is too much of a trouble. Lay your sealing first layer of clear , Airbrush the whole area with very Light grey , which might be a better choice than pure white. Also directly painting on the play field might bring you some problems later from temperature changing not having the paint stable b2in 2 layers of clear.
I recently picked up what it looks like to be a home use only LW3.
Unfortunately it has been somewhat neglected over the years and the pf shows a little planking.
I am considering my options, the goal would be restoring the game, starting with the pf and boards. Then build a new cab or restore the current one (which is actually very very nice, but feels a little dry)
I want to do something with the PF, I would do a pf swap but there isnt anybody remaking these. Unfortunately.
So it looks like my only option is trying to save this one.
What is the best approach to stop this ?
4CEA4F7A-001E-49B1-AD71-1D7FEA9A5FBC (resized).jpeg926DF9F9-9E46-44C8-9F85-2F75A57CA2CC (resized).jpegD2C0FF0C-720C-4A1F-A151-28BC31E97D99 (resized).jpegQuoted from vid1900:Looks like a great restoration candidate
Clearcoat will lock all that down before it starts chipping
Are there any particular precautions that you would take when sanding a pf like this?
Would you say it si safe to play?
I purposely took a pic with a light coming on the side for the sake of the picture and it might look worse than it is. I am sure you figured it out by now.
Thanks in advance!
This is the part on my Fireball that I would like to repair. It's a Fireball with almost 90K plays. There are other part of the playfield that show wear, but visibly they are more "out of the way".
This one though, bothers me 
I would love to find a way to fix it. Right now I have a playfield protector on the game, but I'm not really fond of it on this machine.
IMG_6621 (resized).jpgQuoted from Pin_Fandango:Are there any particular precautions that you would take when sanding a pf like this?
Don't use a power sander.
Gently degloss it by hand, then shoot your thin layer of clearcoat.
You can leave it alone, protected...or continue to a full restoration
Quoted from vid1900:Don't use a power sander.
Gently degloss it by hand, then shoot your thin layer of clearcoat.
You can leave it alone, protected...or continue to a full restoration
600 or 800 grit by hand, just enough to degloss and shoot?
I will most likely just continue and add a little colour where it is needed.
There are some ball trails that are not coming off so I figured it would be a good time to address that as well, and well, also find a excuse to buy myself an airbrush. Lol
Quoted from jlbintn:This is the part on my Fireball that I would like to repair. It's a Fireball with almost 90K plays. There are other part of the playfield that show wear, but visibly they are more "out of the way".
This one though, bothers me
I would love to find a way to fix it. Right now I have a playfield protector on the game, but I'm not really fond of it on this machine.[quoted image]
I don't have a scan of Fireball72, but I'm sure somebody here does.
Print a waterslide decal, and do a conventional repair
That's what I'm leaning towards. Seems like it would be a lot easier, what with a 50 year old playfield that has been used a lot. There are some other spots that I'm going to try to do touch up with an airbrush (thanks for the Harbor Freight tip, that model is on clearance, going for $21). Those are relatively easy to access and mainly one color. This machine is probably cleaner now than it has been in decades, and still a lot to do. It's playing nicely and we just want to enjoy it and make it look as good as we possibly can.
I've been taking ZEP to the playfield, it's getting that black "soot" crap up quite nicely. And it smells nice, too.
Quoted from jlbintn:I've been taking ZEP to the playfield, it's getting that black "soot" crap up quite nicely. And it smells nice, too.
Much safer to use Naphtha
...and it leaves no residue behind to impede latter restoration
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-and-waxing-pinball-machines-vids-guide
Quoted from jlbintn:This is the part on my Fireball that I would like to repair. It's a Fireball with almost 90K plays. There are other part of the playfield that show wear, but visibly they are more "out of the way".
This one though, bothers me
I would love to find a way to fix it. Right now I have a playfield protector on the game, but I'm not really fond of it on this machine.[quoted image]
You can do it. Here is my before and after. My first try ever doing this. It’s far from perfect, but way better than what I started with.
32038D47-27B4-4B64-BFE5-CAD015081A37 (resized).pngA22FD373-FDEE-43E6-A419-4BCC9FE566E2 (resized).jpegI did almost all of it by hand, but I did air brush the white areas under the plastics.
Next time I’ll try all airbrush. I had so much planking and loose paint. I should have locked everything down with a coat of clear first.
I have a WCS94 that plays good but needs the playfield cleared and touched up. It will be a year or so before I can get to it. I want to put a mylar playfield protector sheet on it for now. I'm worried when I pull it off later to clear the playfield it might lift decals, etc. Am I worried in vain? If my worry is valid, is there any precautions I can take to keep this from happening?
Quoted from jazc4:I have a WCS94 that plays good but needs the playfield cleared and touched up. It will be a year or so before I can get to it. I want to put a mylar playfield protector sheet on it for now. I'm worried when I pull it off later to clear the playfield it might lift decals, etc. Am I worried in vain? If my worry is valid, is there any precautions I can take to keep this from happening?
E7637D79-6132-4CF6-9189-91E5BFCD10CB (resized).jpegQuoted from jazc4:[quoted image]
mylar this now seems like a bad idea with an unpredictable result. You might get away with it if you wax the pf well, but I would not risk it.
If you really must play this game now, maybe just add a protector to put on top but seems like a waste of time and money in my opinion...
I do not think anybody can guarantee what will happen to the art on that pf once you add mylar and let it live there for 1 year...
If you were to do that and must use mylar, I would at least get scans of all the affected art and have a back up plan.
I am on the same boat, just got a really nice home use only LW3 but I will not risk the a PF that is planking and have a much bigger job later, so I have decided to not do anything, until I clear the PF. So it will be unplayed until then, which is extra motivation. In the meantime, I am doing other things that will save me time later...
Anyway, this is is getting winded.
Good luck
Quoted from jazc4:I have a WCS94 that plays good but needs the playfield cleared and touched up. It will be a year or so before I can get to it. I want to put a mylar playfield protector sheet on it for now. I'm worried when I pull it off later to clear the playfield it might lift decals, etc. Am I worried in vain? If my worry is valid, is there any precautions I can take to keep this from happening?
Wax it good before you put the Mylar down.
If there is any flaky or chipping areas already, obviously don't stick any Mylar to it.
Quoted from vid1900:Wax it good before you put the Mylar down.
If there is any flaky or chipping areas already, obviously don't stick any Mylar to it.
if the man says then do it, lol.
vid1900 are you saying I can do the same with my LW3 or would the planking I have not survive mylar?
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:if the man says then do it, lol.
vid1900 are you saying I can do the same with my LW3 or would the planking I have not survive mylar?
Planking, chipping, lifting - all bad if you have to pull the mylar
The paint should be 100% solid, or don't risk it
JCC660 does not seem to be available anymore and I certainly can not find it in Australia. Anyone know of the current equivalent? and even better the equivalent in Australia?
Re-posting this question as I need to order some clearcoat.
Cheers
Raph
Now that we are discussing clears...
Has anybody tried Tamco?
They have a clear rated for high-impact and I automatically thought it would be great for our application but maybe it is not?
https://www.mapleairbrushsupplies.com/collections/tamco-clear-coat/products/hi-impact-clear
interested in hearing others opinions.
I'm having a hard time matching the red on Fireball's playfield demon. Very thankful for the paint recommended by Vid. It's not costly to test and wipes away easy, so thanks for that Vid.
Any hints, if anybody has one, would be nice.
Quoted from jlbintn:I'm having a hard time matching the red on Fireball's playfield demon. Very thankful for the paint recommended by Vid. It's not costly to test and wipes away easy, so thanks for that Vid.
Any hints, if anybody has one, would be nice.
Paint is incredibly difficult to match.
Most people (me) give up and just mask and paint all of a specific color at the same time, then paint it.
No matching necessary.
Touch ups always show no matter what. But they are OK and can be addressed during a total playfield renovation.
My stargate has crazing and checking in the original factory clear.
Ive seen this on a couple Gottlieb games, it might be temperature or storage related.
The paint isnt loose or flaking off yet.
Im curoius if a sanding and re-clear can save it?
Stargate playfields are unobtainium for now unless I get one of the un-licensed German digital reprints (which look great by the way...).
Quoted from pinballinreno:My stargate has crazing and checking in the original factory clear.
Ive seen this on a couple Gottlieb games, it might be temperature or storage related.
The paint isnt loose or flaking off yet.
Im curoius if a sanding and re-clear can save it?
Stargate playfields are unobtainium for now unless I get one of the un-licensed German digital reprints (which look great by the way...).
[quoted image][quoted image]
The idea of colour matching terrifies me. Lol.
I wonder if there is a way to actually accomplish this reliably.
Going back to my question:
Nobody with Tamco clear experience/review?
Quoted from pinballinreno:My stargate has crazing and checking in the original factory clear.
Ive seen this on a couple Gottlieb games, it might be temperature or storage related.
The paint isnt loose or flaking off yet.
Im curoius if a sanding and re-clear can save it?
Stargate playfields are unobtainium for now unless I get one of the un-licensed German digital reprints (which look great by the way...).
[quoted image][quoted image]
I would do just that. In fact , the sooner the better before moisture and dirt can get to the paint underneath. My only problem would be the mylar removal. I did not had the best results when I tried to remove it on Robowar , but yours is a differed playfield.
Quoted from pinballinreno:My stargate has crazing and checking in the original factory clear.
Ive seen this on a couple Gottlieb games, it might be temperature or storage related.
The paint isnt loose or flaking off yet.
Im curoius if a sanding and re-clear can save it?
Stargate playfields are unobtainium for now unless I get one of the un-licensed German digital reprints (which look great by the way...).
[quoted image][quoted image]
Worth a shot. I do not know what gottlieb used for a clear-coat but its not a very good product. Usually when we encounter that type of failure, it results from the topcoat becoming brittle and losing its elasticity and cannot handle the contraction and expansion of the underlying surface. I doubt that it will flake off anytime soon., it probably is still adhering.
Quoted from yellowghost:Worth a shot. I do not know what gottlieb used for a clear-coat but its not a very good product. Usually when we encounter that type of failure, it results from the topcoat becoming brittle and losing its elasticity and cannot handle the contraction and expansion of the underlying surface. I doubt that it will flake off anytime soon., it probably is still adhering.
Yeah it seems pretty solid but the crazing will attract dirt soon enough.
Wax seems to seal it pretty good though, and Naptha cleans it off.
Quoted from joshmc:Does anyone know how I can repair this kind of damage? It’s very superficial (not deep at all) but would like to fix it
The tough thing about that is, of course, not damaging the art while sanding down to the level of the wear without burning through the top veneer layer of the plywood.
Slow work. You have to sand with the grain, otherwise you’ll get unsightly cross-grain scratching that will really pop once you apply a finish. You could try a detail sander like the Fein Multimaster, but there’s a real danger of burn through, and it will be tough to keep from hitting the perimeter of the art work. I would think hand sanding *with the grain* using 150 grit would be the place to start. If that cuts through to clean wood, do a quick pass with 220 before cleaning the surface and applying a finish.
Amber shellac would probably be the best bet for a good color prior to clear coating.
Let us know how it goes!
Quoted from joshmc:Hi everyone
Does anyone know how I can repair this kind of damage? It’s very superficial (not deep at all) but would like to fix it
[quoted image]
In agreement with what others said. I would sand , and use a dilute solution of shellac ( Shellac flakes dissolved in Alcohol) to match the color of the surrounding area , with multiple light layers of the shellac solution. After that clear coat and bring to desired gloss level with sanding.
Quoted from phototamer:In agreement with what others said. I would sand , and use a dilute solution of shellac ( Shellac flakes dissolved in Alcohol) to match the color of the surrounding area , with multiple light layers of the shellac solution. After that clear coat and bring to desired gloss level with sanding.
Is this what you’re referring to?
B8CE7076-EC82-44B8-A81B-00D9326F8FF0 (resized).pngQuoted from joshmc:Is this what you’re referring to? [quoted image]
Exactly !
Did that in my Fast draw Resto.
7cca67dfd4631634abfe2803a35f90385179d837 (resized).jpgec17224627c9e562e12972038ccf1e9bf14f1666 (resized).jpgQuoted from phototamer:Exactly !
Did that in my Fast draw Resto.[quoted image][quoted image]
Can’t even see the marks. That’s amazing. So you hand sanded with 150 grit then applied shellac?
I’m curious: how do you apply this stuff? (Which isn’t cheap btw)
I found the following instructions online.
Dissolve Shellac into pure methylated spirits (95%) at the following rate:
- 250gms Shellac in 1 litre of pure methylated spirits.
Pour the required amount of methylated spirits into a glass or plastic container (do not use tin or metal as this will result in the solution darkening).
Add the Shellac to the methylated spirits stirring constantly until the Shellac is fully dissolved. Make sure to filter the mixture to remove undissolved material.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:The tough thing about that is, of course, not damaging the art while sanding down to the level of the wear without burning through the top veneer layer of the plywood.
Slow work. You have to sand with the grain, otherwise you’ll get unsightly cross-grain scratching that will really pop once you apply a finish. You could try a detail sander like the Fein Multimaster, but there’s a real danger of burn through, and it will be tough to keep from hitting the perimeter of the art work. I would think hand sanding *with the grain* using 150 grit would be the place to start. If that cuts through to clean wood, do a quick pass with 220 before cleaning the surface and applying a finish.
Amber shellac would probably be the best bet for a good color prior to clear coating.
Let us know how it goes!
Really stupid question mate: how do I know what direction the grain is running in?
Quoted from joshmc:Really stupid question mate: how do I know what direction the grain is running in?
It is not a stupid question, depending on the task at hand followint the grain means different things, but in a nutshell, the waves and lines in the wood is the direction of the grain.
Quoted from joshmc:how do I know what direction the grain is running in?
On playfields it always runs lengthwise. See in that Fast Draw photo, the lines in the wood grain are primarily going lengthwise? You want to sand accordingly - sand in the lengthwise direction, not across. You’ll be tempted to go cross-grain because that would be faster, but don’t do that. You’ll make unsightly cross-grain scratches which will look very nasty indeed once the shellac hits it.
Quoted from joshmc:I’m curious: how do you apply this stuff? (Which isn’t cheap btw)
I’d probably use a disposable sponge brush. You’ll find it dries *very* quickly, so you’ll want to keep moving and maintain a “wet edge.”
I don’t know if you can get it in Australia, but Zinsser shellac is a pretty common hardware store offering where I live.
I haven’t priced out shellac flakes but Zinsser isn’t that expensive. It’s sold in smaller size cans (though you’ll still have enough left over to refinish your kitchen chairs, lol.) Zinsser is already mixed, but it’s kind of thick, so cutting it with spirits is still a good idea.
Quoted from joshmc:Can’t even see the marks. That’s amazing. So you hand sanded with 150 grit then applied shellac?
I’m curious: how do you apply this stuff? (Which isn’t cheap btw)
I found the following instructions online.
Dissolve Shellac into pure methylated spirits (95%) at the following rate:
- 250gms Shellac in 1 litre of pure methylated spirits.
Pour the required amount of methylated spirits into a glass or plastic container (do not use tin or metal as this will result in the solution darkening).
Add the Shellac to the methylated spirits stirring constantly until the Shellac is fully dissolved. Make sure to filter the mixture to remove undissolved material.
You can apply it with normal paintbrushes. In my experience You can start with 150 grit, but get to 400 before applying the solution of shellac. The solution should be light , that is small number of flakes dissolved. That way you can apply multiple layers until you get exactly to the desired level,of how much dark you want the color to be.
Thanks so much for the advice here. I sanded with 240 then 400. Got the mark out but obviously I’ve created another issue with the sanded area appearing different from the rest of the playfield. Really hoping the shellac does it’s job here. Am still wondering what would happen if I just clear coated over the top without the shellac
293C8784-55D2-4CBA-9596-41939E49A2C1 (resized).jpeg5404F4F8-FEBF-432B-B1DD-C223599FA919 (resized).jpegQuoted from joshmc:Really hoping the shellac does it’s job here. Am still wondering what would happen if I just clear coated over the top without the shellac
Wipe that area with Naptha and while it's still wet, you will see how it would look if you just applied the clear now.
Quoted from Atari_Daze:Wipe that area with Naptha and while it's still wet, you will see how it would look if you just applied the clear now.
This.
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