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(Topic ID: 33446)
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Bobby Orr's Power Play
Bally, 1978-
Gilligan's Island
Bally, 1991
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Sega, 1996
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Quoted from A_Bord:Pre-clearing question: On this 1965 game my translucent red special inserts have what looks like bubbles on the surface. Is this something I need to try to sand down before clearing or is the clear going to help to hide these?
[quoted image]
Ottawa, ON
have a few questions about the following.
Printer, what is a good consumer grade laser printer capable of printing well on waterslide paper?
Siloutte - Circuit, etc, or similar... How do you trim a printed decal on these machines? how do you make it follow the outline of it? I can't understand the purpose of the silhouette if it is not capable of this task.
another post separated from the previous one to prevent it from being buried.
I have this playfield that has a bit of bow, I have been correcting it slowly - by adding weight on top - and it is 1/32" of an inch now (gap in between the straight edge and the PF).
Wondering if I should continue trying to completely flatten the PF before spending any time on it? It is NOS but it is needs a little work, including a new coat of clear as the diamond plate on it is VERY thin. Also, most inserts show small cracks around the edges as the clear shrunk, I presume this will be more visible when cleared again so it might need a little paint... dont have pictures of it, AND it is not very visible at all really, BUT, since I am planning of doing my best attempt possible, and I am aiming for perfection 'to be the best you gotta do what others won't do' hehe... why not going full in...
Let me know what you think. I might be overthinking this.
adding pics of the pf with the straight edge and a close up to provide a better idea as to where the bow is... and it runs like that top to bottom (not only in the centre).
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:Printer, what is a good consumer grade laser printer capable of printing well on waterslide paper?
HP LaserJet III is great because
1. You can crank up the Darkness knob inside and make some super opaque prints
2. You can refill the toner cartridges yourself, saving $$$$
3. They won't melt the decal paper, because they print fast.
4. They are free. Because they weigh 50lbs and are that hideous beige color, people give them away on CL all the time. HP made zillions of them. They were $2,500 new (that's $5,200 in today's money)
The only drawback is that you might need a $10 cable to adapt USB to Parallel Port
http://www.hpmuseum.net/video/LJIII_ComputerChronicles_1991_2.14.mov
LaserJetIII-35 (resized).jpgQuoted from Pin_Fandango:another post separated from the previous one to prevent it from being buried.
I have this playfield that has a bit of bow, I have been correcting it slowly - by adding weight on top - and it is 1/32" of an inch now (gap in between the straight edge and the PF).
Wondering if I should continue trying to completely flatten the PF before spending any time on it? It is NOS but it is needs a little work, including a new coat of clear as the diamond plate on it is VERY thin. Also, most inserts show small cracks around the edges as the clear shrunk, I presume this will be more visible when cleared again so it might need a little paint... dont have pictures of it, AND it is not very visible at all really, BUT, since I am planning of doing my best attempt possible, and I am aiming for perfection 'to be the best you gotta do what others won't do' hehe... why not going full in...
Let me know what you think. I might be overthinking this.
adding pics of the pf with the straight edge and a close up to provide a better idea as to where the bow is... and it runs like that top to bottom (not only in the centre).
thanks
[quoted image][quoted image]
1/32" bow is acceptable.
The weight of the playfield mechs will drop it into shape easily.
A 1/8" twist or bow will also correct after being installed for a couple weeks.
The hardwood side rails do an efficient job of flattening along with the weight applied to the front and rear hangers.
Ideally the side rails should be steel. That way the playfield wouldnt sag as much over a 50 year period.
Quoted from pinballinreno:1/32" bow is acceptable.
The weight of the playfield mechs will drop it into shape easily.
A 1/8" twist or bow will also correct after being installed for a couple weeks.
The hardwood side rails do an efficient job of flattening along with the weight applied to the front and rear hangers.
Ideally the side rails should be steel. That way the playfield wouldnt sag as much over a 50 year period.
just noted as pictured the bow is left to right across the entire PF.
Please note the orientation of the straight edge.
Is it still acceptable? Should I try to flatten it more?
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:just noted as pictured the bow is left to right across the entire PF.
Please note the orientation of the straight edge.
Is it still acceptable? Should I try to flatten it more?
Once you have 30 lbs of coils, mechs and wiring hanging off the back, the weight flattens the playfield out after a few weeks
Even a permanent 1/32" bow would not be a concern in the real world
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:pinball plastic casualty... the paint on this one got affected by isopropyl alcohol (left a rag accidentally on it) and lots of paint dissolved, so I went ahead and cleaned it up, granted a lot of the paint came off, the back white layer and then the some of the black and the orange dot pattern...
I presume this is easy to fix with some airbrushing (except the orange dots), however, the harder part is creating the dots pattern that gives the plastic a darker color mixed with the white background...
The question being, is this plastic garbage now or can the pattern (now gone) of dots be replicated with a decal on the back?
It could be done in this order
Paint the rocks edges in black, then
add decal with dots patters, then,
paint white background over the back of the decal ?
yay / nay ? waste of time and just get a new plastic?
[quoted image]
now that I have you, is it worth fixing this or just buy a new plastic?
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:now that I have you, is it worth fixing this or just buy a new plastic?
Just get another plastic
Greenfield, MA
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:Is it still acceptable? Should I try to flatten it more?
I swapped out a NOS “Warlok”
Playfield this winter. It had such a bow in it, I was worried it wouldn’t sit in the cabinet properly when I was finished. Indeed, the left hand hanger actually had to be pushed down into place, otherwise it sprung up from the lockdown bar.
A couple of days sitting in the cabinet “trained” the playfield into sitting basically flat. I’m sure if I put a straightedge on it, it would not be a plane. But the degree of warping isn’t enough to affect the ball’s travel. It was no problem.
I’ve seen people get passionate about the subject of putting the side rails back on to a newly cleared playfield, but honestly, even if you replace the rails with new hardwood ones, 1/2” x 1 1/8” thick strips just aren’t rigid enough to straighten a playfield, much less do so against the weight of everything hanging off of it.
All of which is to say, that playfield will be fine. Good idea to spray some extra clear on it. Remember to re-glue those inserts first with epoxy!
Hi all! Just picked up an ‘82 Bally Speakeasy with a composite playfield (did NOT know that was a thing!). Shown are the area’s that are showing wear. All-in-all, it’s in pretty amazing shape for its age. My question is:Is this a good candidate for me to attempt my first full playfield restore/clear coat, or just a touch up in areas that need it? And, does Vid’s guide for the most part apply to this material? Thanks for your time!! P.S. Sorry for the poor quality images-poor quality phone. I can upload more detailed photos tomorrow if needed.
0876FACD-698A-4785-9F36-8D89372AD432 (resized).jpeg6E20103F-180B-4915-9BC5-A713F43A216C (resized).jpeg72E68CCF-A760-499D-8350-66B2C8C3EDDB (resized).jpegDFC97AE1-A98B-4ACC-95B8-CAD239B86442 (resized).jpegIts interesting that if that playfield is composite that there seems to be slight planking in the second pic. That must be original finsh showing tgat rather than the substrate material.
Quoted from PinballAir:Its interesting that if that playfield is composite that there seems to be slight planking in the second pic. That must be original finsh showing tgat rather than the substrate material.
Yeah, it’s strange. You can actually see planking throughout other parts of the playfield. It’s all new to me, so I figured I’d ask the experts. I’m in the dark on this one
Quoted from Hop721:Hi all! Just picked up an ‘82 Bally Speakeasy with a composite playfield (did NOT know that was a thing!). Shown are the area’s that are showing wear. All-in-all, it’s in pretty amazing shape for its age. My question is:Is this a good candidate for me to attempt my first full playfield restore/clear coat, or just a touch up in areas that need it? And, does Vid’s guide for the most part apply to this material? Thanks for your time!! P.S. Sorry for the poor quality images-poor quality phone. I can upload more detailed photos tomorrow if needed.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Let's see pics of the shooter lane and the back of the playfield too
Composite usually sucks up paint and clear like a sponge, so you'll probably want to seal those wear spots before you even put paint down.
Is it the 1, 2 or 4 player version?
Quoted from vid1900:Let's see pics of the shooter lane and the back of the playfield too
Composite usually sucks up paint and clear like a sponge, so you'll probably want to seal those wear spots before you even put paint down.
Is it the 1, 2 or 4 player version?
2 player version. Surprising! I would guess that it would be so hard (read:nonporous) that it would be tough to get it to stick….Glad I asked!!
1B2C29C4-4139-4205-9565-AAEB8C9765A1 (resized).jpeg2CB31904-74C7-4366-8B05-511A156D0EB1 (resized).jpeg9FDC68DC-BFA1-4ED6-B02C-B628235ACE7A (resized).jpegA09B309F-E3C8-4CCB-86D5-B54225B93108 (resized).jpegQuoted from Hop721:2 player version. Surprising! I would guess that it would be so hard (read:nonporous) that it would be tough to get it to stick….Glad I asked!! [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
That shooterlane looks great.
I was worried it would have a pit dug out that would be tough to resurface.
I'd rebuild those flippers back to the pre 80s style, but otherwise it looks super clean
Should be an easy restore.
Quoted from vid1900:That shooterlane looks great.
I was worried it would have a pit dug out that would be tough to resurface.
I'd rebuild those flippers back to the pre 80s style, but otherwise it looks super clean
Should be an easy restore.
What I like to hear! Yes, it’s in great shape considering it’s age. Thanks for the help, Vid. I’ll post pics after it’s finished.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:I swapped out a NOS “Warlok”
Playfield this winter. It had such a bow in it, I was worried it wouldn’t sit in the cabinet properly when I was finished. Indeed, the left hand hanger actually had to be pushed down into place, otherwise it sprung up from the lockdown bar.
A couple of days sitting in the cabinet “trained” the playfield into sitting basically flat. I’m sure if I put a straightedge on it, it would not be a plane. But the degree of warping isn’t enough to affect the ball’s travel. It was no problem.
I’ve seen people get passionate about the subject of putting the side rails back on to a newly cleared playfield, but honestly, even if you replace the rails with new hardwood ones, 1/2” x 1 1/8” thick strips just aren’t rigid enough to straighten a playfield, much less do so against the weight of everything hanging off of it.
All of which is to say, that playfield will be fine. Good idea to spray some extra clear on it. Remember to re-glue those inserts first with epoxy!
Are there instructions here on how to reglue the inserts?
Do I have to remove the factory glue?
Unknown
I've been working on a Capt Fantastic playfield which has the graphics on most of the inserts in the middle removed.
Does anyone have ideas on how to restore it?
Waterslide decals?
I've added a picture from the splendid repros from CPR.
You can see that the insert is "white" plastic (shows through the light bulb) and then it's colored.
post-9-3 (resized).jpgQuoted from Pin_Fandango:Are there instructions here on how to reglue the inserts?
Do I have to remove the factory glue?
Yeah you should very much remove the factory glue. Also have you seen the topic index for this thread? It's on the first page.
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:OK - trying to get my ducks in a row before re-doing the inserts.
This has been asked in the thread DOZENS of times, but most of the questions and answers are years old and links aren't working. The grainger.com one is no longer good, and what looks to be the perfect match on Amazon isn't available:
amazon.com link »
So, like a ton of people, I'm having trouble tracking down the 3m AC77 primer that Vid recommends.
Anyone with a current 2021 source in a size less than gallons? Or a suitable replacement / alternative?
I've been using AC94 primer as I cannot locate anything else in my area. Seems to be holding with 2 part epoxy.
Quoted from frsj8112:I've been working on a Capt Fantastic playfield which has the graphics on most of the inserts in the middle removed.
Does anyone have ideas on how to restore it?
Waterslide decals?
I've added a picture from the splendid repros from CPR.
You can see that the insert is "white" plastic (shows through the light bulb) and then it's colored.[quoted image]
Waterslide decals would be the easiest
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:Are there instructions here on how to reglue the inserts?
Do I have to remove the factory glue?
Check the topic index.
If inserts haven’t moved significantly, I don’t remove them. I mix up 5-minute epoxy and swab it around the perimeter of the insert, bridging the plastic and the plywood. Use a liberal amount of glue, short of being sloppy.
Mix small quantities and do 2-3 inserts at a time, so you don’t end up using gooey thickening epoxy, a messy hassle to work with.
If they have moved a lot, follow vid’s guide. Removing the old glue and re-seating the inserts always feels like the most Bomb-proof method to me, but it also comes with the most extra work - dripping in clear coat/extra level sanding, redoing keylining and insert lettering. If you only have some telegraphing through he keylines but the inserts are otherwise stable, re-glueing from the back side is less work. Often you can touch up key line cracks with a Molotow paint pen.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Check the topic index.
If inserts haven’t moved significantly, I don’t remove them. I mix up 5-minute epoxy and swab it around the perimeter of the insert, bridging the plastic and the plywood. Use a liberal amount of glue, short of being sloppy.
Mix small quantities and do 2-3 inserts at a time, so you don’t end up using gooey thickening epoxy, a messy hassle to work with.
If they have moved a lot, follow vid’s guide. Removing the old glue and re-seating the inserts always feels like the most Bomb-proof method to me, but it also comes with the most extra work - dripping in clear coat/extra level sanding, redoing keylining and insert lettering. If you only have some telegraphing through he keylines but the inserts are otherwise stable, re-glueing from the back side is less work. Often you can touch up key line cracks with a Molotow paint pen.
the inserts are absolutely perfect, nothing has moved.
Is it recommend to re glue them regardless?
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:the inserts are absolutely perfect, nothing has moved.
Is it recommend to re glue them regardless?
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration#post-551439
Suggest you scour through this topic over and over prior to any work, I know I did. Sounds like many of your concerns are already answered.
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:the inserts are absolutely perfect, nothing has moved.
Is it recommend to re glue them regardless?
Yes.
Quoted from Atari_Daze:Suggest you scour through this topic over and over prior to any work, I know I did
Seconded.
Go to page one of this guide and read all of Vid’s posts - he starts with an intro and overview, goes all the way through finish bidding, and revisits a couple of topics. Read it all 3 or 4 times before you begin. I bet almost every pinsider who has done a successful restoration in the past decade started here.
Quoted from vid1900:I usually install decals over glossy clear, not sanded clear
If the clear is old and hard, I then lightly sand around the decals.
If the clear is fresh, I just shoot the next layer like normal
When you say glossy clear do you mean after spraying, let it cure and no sanding.
So spray the 2 part clear on the playfield and let it fully cure. Don't sand and lay the decals then sand the cured clear around the decals before respraying and then sanding everything flat?
Quoted from pinwillie:[quoted image]
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
definitely a challenge I tried to make all the dots line up, not easy at all. then just tried to blend them out.
does anybody have any more detail as to how this repair was done? was it done with a decal or hand painted? I know it is 7 years old....
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:does anybody have any more detail as to how this repair was done? was it done with a decal or hand painted? I know it is 7 years old....
That repair may have been hand painted. Vid does talk about a scanner but said the dots could be hard. Not real sure. The close up kinda looks hand painted dots but don’t really know.
Quoted from vid1900:Yeah, that's a fun one.
You need a clean scan from someone to make a decal.
First seal the wood and paint the damage white.
Then match the light blue and spray the blue field back on. I'd probably paint over all the lettering and all the half tone dots in that section. It would be too difficult for a beginner to get the new dots to match the old dots.
Then in photoshop, remove the light blue background from the scanned image. Remove the white areas from the scanned image.
On a color laser printer, print the repair on clear waterslide decal. This will restore the black lettering and the tiny purple dot halftone.
Test how the purple dots look on the light blue background. They might need a little more red added to them. If they do, remove the decal before it dries and print another test patch.
It may take you a few tries, but once you complete this repair, you will be ready for just about anything a playfield can throw at you.
Quoted from pzy:Here's what HSA Pinball did with similar wear:
[quoted image] [quoted image]
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/warlok-nos-playfield-full-game-restoration-#post-6064320
Go to post #8 for a rundown of how I approached halftones last time I had to engage with them.
I tried all the other options and ended up purchasing a digital drawing tablet, so that I could use a pressure-sensitive stylus to “brush” in the halftone patterns using Photoshop brush tools. I haven’t found a better way to do this - it allows the greatest latitude on control of dot size and pattern distribution. It’s still a big pain in the rear, but I was able to produce better results this way than with any number of other gradient to halftone conversion methods.
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:yeah would be curious to see what was done, it looks really great.
Halftone dots step by step here:
thanks for sharing those links gents! really great info.
I am tempted to fix that plastic that got the paint removed... I know it is just easier to buy the plastic but I do not think I can get just that one, I would have to get an entire plastic KIT (that I already have minus that damaged one)...
would WS decal stick to plastic?
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:thanks for sharing those links gents! really great info.
I am tempted to fix that plastic that got the paint removed... I know it is just easier to buy the plastic but I do not think I can get just that one, I would have to get an entire plastic KIT (that I already have minus that damaged one)...
would WS decal stick to plastic?
Post a wanted ad or beg for one in the owners thread.
Lots of those floating around.
I got a used translite that way.
Pinside is great for stuff like that.
Quoted from vid1900:Halftone dots step by step here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/29#post-2024751
I knew I had read over that at some point. Thanks vid1900 for clarifying. Your the man!!!
2 weeks later
After applying touch up paint (either via an airbrush or otherwise), do you need to lightly sand/degloss the paint before applying the next coat of clear?
Thank you.
Quoted from RightNut:After applying touch up paint (either via an airbrush or otherwise), do you need to lightly sand/degloss the paint before applying the next coat of clear?
Thank you.
I am wondering about this too, so not sure what needs to happen first? paint first and sand after? in that case, do you need to avoid sanding the fresh paint?
Quoted from RightNut:After applying touch up paint (either via an airbrush or otherwise), do you need to lightly sand/degloss the paint before applying the next coat of clear?
Thank you.
I wouldnt, unless you are trying to correct something or the surface is corrupted.
Or maybe knock down the paint edges...
Quoted from RightNut:After applying touch up paint (either via an airbrush or otherwise), do you need to lightly sand/degloss the paint before applying the next coat of clear?
I've only done 4 playfields but always just shoot clear on top of the dry Createx.
Quoted from Atari_Daze:I've only done 4 playfields but always just shoot clear on top of the dry Createx.
This is the way...
Quoted from Atari_Daze:I've only done 4 playfields but always just shoot clear on top of the dry Createx.
I think, *I am looking for clarification on the sanding process when painting is required, do you sand first and then paint?
must be hard to see one it is sanded (talking from lack of experience here)...
Would this be appropriate:
sand
Frisket
make cutouts
paint
Clear
Quoted from Pin_Fandango:I think, *I am looking for clarification on the sanding process when painting is required, do you sand first and then paint?
must be hard to see what needs to be done.
I clean the playfield first, then shoot a layer of clear to lock in the original art. You can sand at this point and correct any low spots. The flatter it is the easier it will be to mask. Once you start repainting, you can spray clear to lock in layers of finished work.
Limassol
Quoted from RightNut:After applying touch up paint (either via an airbrush or otherwise), do you need to lightly sand/degloss the paint before applying the next coat of clear?
Thank you.
As the others mentioned no need to sand/degloss paint unless you have raised paintwork edges.
So .. clean the playfield as much as you can trying not to remove original artwork. apply clear to protect what is there , block sand.
After that ...
make corrections with paint , airbrush or otherwise. If you are also applying decals or anything other than paint , is strongly preferable to apply them directly on clear and not on paint. if you need to apply them on any areas that are painted , then put another coat of clear , block sand and then apply decals etc..
Applying thin layers of clear between corrective steps , safeguards your progress , and gives you the chance to correct possible mistakes on that step because your previous work is protected under a layer of clear.
The most layers of clear that I applied on single playfield was 4. In my opinion you should organize your corrective steps so as to use the minimal number of clear coats. Some feel that a large number of clear coats will make the corrections on the top layer look like floating. But with thin layers I think that this is undetectable.
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