Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

5 years ago



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There are 5888 posts in this topic. You are on page 15 of 118.
#701 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Like Minpin said, you want to air brush it, because you WILL see brush strokes when backlit (especially with LED lighting).

Thanks! Your post showed up right as I was responding to minipin. Never used an airbrush but see from this thread that harbor freight has a good option and I can practice a bit before using the playfield.

#702 4 years ago
Quoted from altan:

Does one coat tend to make it level with the other art or should multiple coats be applied to make it level?

Once you spray the clear coat over the paint, the clear will self-level the insert wear.

#703 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Once you spray the clear coat over the paint, the clear will self-level the insert wear.

Thank again! I'm using my phone so my search may have missed this, but is there a post in this thread that has advise regarding spraying clear over a small area? And perhaps recommended brand?

#704 4 years ago

What kind of safety equipment are people using for spraying clear? The local body supply shop sold me a dual cartridge mask but the clear definitely says to use a positive pressure supplied air system. I watched some YouTube videos where a guy was spraying with just a dust mask which seemed crazy.

#705 4 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

What kind of safety equipment are people using for spraying clear? The local body supply shop sold me a dual cartridge mask but the clear definitely says to use a positive pressure supplied air system.

Isocyanate does not have a smell, so the clear manufacturer puts that hideous smell into the formula so you CAN'T miss a leak in your mask.

If you start doing clear all the time, a pressure air system would be a worthwhile investment in your longevity.

Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

I watched some YouTube videos where a guy was spraying with just a dust mask which seemed crazy.

Yeah, I've emailed that guy to take down those dangerous videos, but he keeps them around.

Don't even think of using a dust mask for spraying, or sanding the lead based cabinet paint.

#706 4 years ago
Quoted from altan:

Thank again! I'm using my phone so my search may have missed this, but is there a post in this thread that has advise regarding spraying clear over a small area? And perhaps recommended brand?

Spraying clear over a small area is much harder to do than just clearing the whole playfield.

You need to spray all the way to an edge where the transition will not be noticed.

Rottenstone can be used to knock down the high gloss of the new clear to better match the old clear.

PPG JC660 is a very forgiving clear for the beginner to get totally pro results. Sand it before it too long, because after a few weeks, it becomes very hard.

#707 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Isocyanate does not have a smell, so the clear manufacturer puts that hideous smell into the formula so you CAN'T miss a leak in your mask.
If you start doing clear all the time, a pressure air system would be a worthwhile investment in your longevity.

Yeah, I've emailed that guy to take down those videos, but he keeps them around.
Don't even think of using a dust mask for spraying, or sanding the lead based cabinet paint.

Hope his lungs hold up.

For fun I decided to try out my new HVLP gun using something more safe, water based Varathane. I had a heck of a time setting the gun up? I thinned the stuff down quite a bit with water but I found it hard to check the spray pattern since it was so clear. I really am not ready to spray a playfield that is for sure. Any tips on pressures and settings?

#708 4 years ago

I keep forgetting, what type of paint do people spray cabinets with?

#709 4 years ago

Hi Altan,

I am just getting into all of this painting myself. I would say go over it a couple times, but I don't know about "coats". When I think of a paint coat, I think of spray it, letting it dry, and spraying it again.

Certainly, there are times when coats are necessary, but in this case I would suspect a couple times back and forth, let it dry, check it and then blast it with your heat source should be fine.

#710 4 years ago

Thanks for the tip on the Xacto painting, Vid. I will have to do that, although the corners and curves are going to be tough to get proper with that method I have a feeling. I would have scanned it in and did it that way, if I hadn't at an earlier time painted those white areas and not did it as well as I am learning to do it now.

I decided to repaint those areas and it looks much better this time, but the lines were already messed up. I still may be able to decal them. I also had my first use of a little tiny bit of bondo on a chipped area....it formed in there nice, and now I must sand.

In regards to using sharp blades - Indeed it is the way to go, and to that end I show you a picture of these beauties. This was a new discovery (for me anyway) and they are fantastic XActo blades. The cost is about a buck or so more and well worth it.

XActo Blades.png

#711 4 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

What kind of safety equipment are people using for spraying clear? The local body supply shop sold me a dual cartridge mask but the clear definitely says to use a positive pressure supplied air system. I watched some YouTube videos where a guy was spraying with just a dust mask which seemed crazy.

My understanding is there are no cartridge masks that protect against isocyanines. Spend the $350 and get one of these or have someone else do it:
ebay.com link

#713 4 years ago

OK. It's odd that 3M never says that in their product information. I guess you have to dig through the mind numbing NIOSH approvals to find what's covered or rely on the reseller. But still, after buying a full face respirator, changing the cartridges 5 or 6 times, a supplied fresh air respirator is the same money. Besides, it's nice and cozy inside the tent.

#714 4 years ago

So, I will be clearing my PF soon...and this conversation is the first I have heard of needing expensive gear just to protect myself from the clear.

Granted, it is presumable that hazardous clear coating may require protection, I am just surprised I have never noticed it being talked about before. So, even if I am completely outside, in my driveway performing this task, I need a mask and a bunch of cartridges to the tune of $100 or more? Seriously?

#715 4 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

So, even if I am completely outside, in my driveway performing this task, I need a mask and a bunch of cartridges to the tune of $100 or more? Seriously?

You can't clear in your driveway because airborn trash will stick to your clear coat.

A cartridge mask is ~$27 that will cover you both for isocyanines and lead paint dust from sanding cabs.

Don't sand cabs inside your garage, you will never get the lead out.

#716 4 years ago

Oh....I guess that makes more than good sense. Thank you, sir...as always.

I always think I know stuff, until I realize I don't know anything...

#717 4 years ago

I have a poll barn that I plan to use for my clear coating area. Its weatherproof, but has a gravel floor, should I make a makeshift paint booth with some plastic to control any potential dust?

Also I have two dogs that live outdoors just outside the barn, should I get them some masks too? or is being out in the fresh air good enough?

I'm actually concerned that they don't get harmed by any potential fumes. It is a large barn with airplane hanger like doors on both ends, dogs live a long side not near either door, but the place is not air tight obviously.

#718 4 years ago

what cabinets have lead in the paint? Are we talking old EM's before a certain era or are we talking WPC games?

#719 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

what cabinets have lead in the paint? Are we talking old EM's before a certain era or are we talking WPC games?

good question. I hadn't thought of the risk of lead based paints.

#720 4 years ago
Quoted from KloggMonkey:

I have a poll barn that I plan to use for my clear coating area. Its weatherproof, but has a gravel floor, should I make a makeshift paint booth with some plastic to control any potential dust?

Yes, put some plastic up (make it way bigger than you think you need, or the mist might fill the space).

Spray the floor with water to temporarily keep the dust down, just before you start.

#721 4 years ago
Quoted from NYP:

what cabinets have lead in the paint? Are we talking old EM's before a certain era or are we talking WPC games?

Lead paint was banned after 1978 for home use but was commonly used in commercial applications into the 2000s, and can still be found today.

You will never get the lead dust out of a basement or garage, so BE CAREFUL.

Wash any lead dust clothing separately from other clothes. Better yet, wear a Tyvek suit ($9).

Wear a real respirator that is rated for lead exposure.

#722 4 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

So, I will be clearing my PF soon...and this conversation is the first I have heard of needing expensive gear just to protect myself from the clear.
Granted, it is presumable that hazardous clear coating may require protection, I am just surprised I have never noticed it being talked about before. So, even if I am completely outside, in my driveway performing this task, I need a mask and a bunch of cartridges to the tune of $100 or more? Seriously?

Definitely do not underestimate the danger. The effects can be time delayed by hours and guy in another thread said he passed out the next morning. ~20% of the population are susceptible and there is only one way to find out if you are in that group.

I discovered that the consumer aimed products are safe because the isocyanates are prepolymerized and do not wind up in the air even when you spray it, not to say you don't still need a good mask. The catalyzed stuff for cars is curing during spraying and the airborne stuff is nasty.

#723 4 years ago

I am sufficiently scared now. I will leave cabinet work and clear coating to the pros.

#724 4 years ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

Definitely do not underestimate the danger. The effects can be time delayed by hours and guy in another thread said he passed out the next morning. ~20% of the population are susceptible and there is only one way to find out if you are in that group.
I discovered that the consumer aimed products are safe because the isocyanates are prepolymerized and do not wind up in the air even when you spray it, not to say you don't still need a good mask. The catalyzed stuff for cars is curing during spraying and the airborne stuff is nasty.

Just to clarify what I wrote, of course it gets in the air when you spray it, but the polymers in the consumer stuff is mostly cured and therefore less toxic. The solvent it is floating in boils away and gets in the air but is safer than the automotive stuff whose polymers are still curing as you spray it. Cyanide should be respected. Some people are pretty casual about it for some reason.

#725 4 years ago

Thanks for the updates and safety tips. I now feel I can proceed without worry.

Pafasa, be cautious, but don't be scared away. If you are part of this pinball restoration scene (and based on your status as pinball guru, you appear to be) you need to do these tasks to properly restore an old machine.

This news shouldn't frighten you, it should make you feel informed so that you can do these jobs in a proper and safe manner. I am glad I got a little backed up on other stuff and made this discovery before getting into these potentially dangerous aspects of the restoration. The lead paint thing would never have occurred to me.

So glad that this community is here so that these details get hashed out.

#726 4 years ago

Here's a cheap way to make a spray booth. Easy to disassemble when not needed.

http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Paint-Booth-in-Your-Garage

#727 4 years ago

Spray booth thing is very cool and I will probably be taking that instruction to heart. Vid says clearing in the driveway will open the surface up to airborne gunk. He's absolutely right, but then he hasn't seen the inside of my garage. Hehe. I think this spray booth system is definitely in order. Thanks for the tip.

#728 4 years ago

It's pretty good isn't it. Necessity really is the mother of invention.

#729 4 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

Well that addams is a new repo, and the T2 looks like it was just clearcoated.

Neo the T2 was shot 5+ years ago. The addams isn't a "new" repro it's actually 2 runs back and has been correctly repaired. It had white specks all over it from dirty screens.

#730 4 years ago

3M 7192 for medium or 7193 for large should be adequate protection but these respirators are effective for a limited exposure to air, I believe 10 hours. They need to be stored in a sealed zip lock when not in use. This means if you forget to put it away and find it out the next day you need to throw it away and get a new one.

#731 4 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

Spray booth thing is very cool and I will probably be taking that instruction to heart. Vid says clearing in the driveway will open the surface up to airborne gunk. He's absolutely right, but then he hasn't seen the inside of my garage. Hehe. I think this spray booth system is definitely in order. Thanks for the tip.

Here's a garage booth I built with 1"EMT tubing and fittings from here:
http://tarps.com/fittings2.htm
booth.jpg

#732 4 years ago

Heisenberg will get you a huo booth for your clear coat.

#733 4 years ago
Quoted from Superchicken:

Here's a garage booth I built with 1"EMT tubing and fittings from here:
http://tarps.com/fittings2.htm

booth.jpg 131 KB

Very cool. I will be building some concoction in the realm of what you have built and the instructions from the other link. We are all sort of in a makeshift business here, aren't we? The work on the machines needs to be right, the tools we use to get those results...home made, baby!

#734 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It is in a very noticeable place from the player's point of view. It needs to be repaired.

WEAR.jpg 43 KB

Question about the picture with the fine black line touchup. (page 4)

Starting from the black line being touched up, to the left I see what appears to be the original yellow, and then further left the new airbrushed yellow. Can you cut the frisket right up to the fine black line to completely cover the old yellow or will that not with such a fine line? Or was did the original playfield have two shades of yellow?

#735 4 years ago

You can cut right up to the line.

I was making a 3D effect for a special client.

#736 4 years ago
Quoted from Hatska1:

Here's a cheap way to make a spray booth. Easy to disassemble when not needed.
http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Paint-Booth-in-Your-Garage

Scroll down and you can see my portable paint booth. Works great.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/back-to-the-future-restoration/page/2

#737 4 years ago

I'm currently working on cleaning up my first machine. This thread has been a fantastic resource. Thanks Vid!

I must have gotten a little carried away with the magic eraser in a couple spots. Looks like I wore through the original varnish down by the flippers and left some patches of lighter color -- see pic. Luckily, this didn't happen in any painted areas. Photo also shows a little wear divot from the flipper.

Any suggestions how to fix it?

IMG_5834.jpg

#738 4 years ago

Because that is the most noticeable area of the playfield, you are going to have to sand all the varnish off in the whole area.

Any patching will stand out like a sore thumb.

Tape off the black keylining and use an electric detail sander to expose the fresh wood.

Using Blond Shellac, then spray a few layers until the color matches the rest of the playfield.

#739 4 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Because that is the most noticeable area of the playfield, you are going to have to sand all the varnish off in the whole area.

Any patching will stand out like a sore thumb.

Tape off the black keylining and use an electric detail sander to expose the fresh wood.

Using Blond Shellac, then spray a few layers until the color matches the rest of the playfield.

Excellent. Thanks! Will give it a shot.

#740 4 years ago

Has anyone tried something like this rather than the frisket?

http://www.tcpglobal.com/ItemDetail.aspx?ItemNo=KUS%20CMF6150

It is a heck of a lot cheaper.

#741 4 years ago
Quoted from MArmour:

Has anyone tried something like this rather than the frisket?
http://www.tcpglobal.com/ItemDetail.aspx?ItemNo=KUS%20CMF6150
It is a heck of a lot cheaper.

That link is dead - no item shown or described.

Frisket is pretty darn cheap. I bought a fairly large roll of it for under $20.00. I could easily do three machines with it.

#742 4 years ago

MArmour, I would be careful with that kind of material but I would not necessarily discourage it either. It is listed as transfer tape on their site. This may work well with very secure surfaces, but I suggest that it is not as easy to make clean cuts as its description suggests. It is basically a giant roll of masking tape. There are different varieties of this type of material including opaque and clear, low adhesion and high.

#743 4 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

That link is dead - no item shown or described.
Frisket is pretty darn cheap. I bought a fairly large roll of it for under $20.00. I could easily do three machines with it.

Is this the stuff you guys use?

amazon.com link »

Or is there a cheaper one?

#744 4 years ago

I've really been getting motivated by this whole thread, love all the info here.
I have virtually no experience with airbrushing, and when looking for some supplies to get started, found this.

ebay.com link » 2 Airbrush System Kit W 6 Primary Createx Paint Color Set Air Compressor Hobby

I'm thinking about picking this up, it's affordable and seems perfect for someone like me trying to learn how to do this. Just want to know if anyone has any thoughts or opinions on this kit. I will NOT be doing any kind of clear with that compressor so that's not an issue, I have another compressor, but I like the compact size and portability of this one.

Great info Vid, keep it coming.

#745 4 years ago

What's the best way to fill in the little recessed grooves between inserts and the playfield? I would think they need to be leveled out before applying clearcoat or else the clearcoat would sink into the crack, no?

#746 4 years ago
Quoted from cheezywhiz:

What's the best way to fill in the little recessed grooves between inserts and the playfield? I would think they need to be leveled out before applying clearcoat or else the clearcoat would sink into the crack, no?

I ended up pooling a little dome of polyurethane over each insert. It did a decent job filling in the grooves and also helped flatten some of the cupped inserts.

#747 4 years ago
Quoted from MArmour:

Is this the stuff you guys use?
amazon.com link »
Or is there a cheaper one?

That is pretty much the stuff. You can buy wider, longer or smaller sized rolls or sheets. That's the one that I purchased. Just bought it at one my local art shops. Works great!

#748 4 years ago
Quoted from Bangagong85:

I've really been getting motivated by this whole thread, love all the info here.
I have virtually no experience with airbrushing, and when looking for some supplies to get started, found this.
ebay.com link » 2 Airbrush System Kit W 6 Primary Createx Paint Color Set Air Compressor Hobby
I'm thinking about picking this up, it's affordable and seems perfect for someone like me trying to learn how to do this. Just want to know if anyone has any thoughts or opinions on this kit. I will NOT be doing any kind of clear with that compressor so that's not an issue, I have another compressor, but I like the compact size and portability of this one.
Great info Vid, keep it coming.

DO NOT BUY THAT AIRBRUSH! TCPGLOBAL does have many good products and I largely give them credit for customer service, but I bought that airbrush and returned it. It is nearly worthless and you will rip out all of your hair before realizing it isn't your fault.

#749 4 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

DO NOT BUY THAT AIRBRUSH! TCPGLOBAL does have many good products and I largely give them credit for customer service, but I bought that airbrush and returned it. It is nearly worthless and you will rip out all of your hair before realizing it isn't your fault.

That is a bummer. I went ahead and ordered it probably an hour before your post. Oh well, I'll see what it can do for me, after all, I have no experience and not really any kind of detailed work to do with it. Thanks for the tip anyway, I'll let you know how it works out.

#750 4 years ago
Quoted from cheezywhiz:

What's the best way to fill in the little recessed grooves between inserts and the playfield? I would think they need to be leveled out before applying clearcoat or else the clearcoat would sink into the crack, no?

You mix up a little 2 part auto clear coat and fill in the valleys.

Same way you fill up cupped inserts.

Polyurethane will shrink over time and the valleys usually return. 2 part clear is very stable, and of course, completely compatible with itself when you clear the entire playfield.

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