These forum posts have been super helpful to me.

I have an old Williams sys6 playfield, where the inserts are otherwise fine but they are all severely cupped. There is plenty of paint fix-up work to do also.

When it comes filling the cups with clear coat, is this something that is best to address first before anything else, or wait until all playfield paint fixes are done (before final clear coat)? What do the experienced folk say - does the order really matter?

Hi, I'm restoring my TZ. On the playfiled I have a light wear on the inlane rollover cutout where the ball drops from the ramp. I think that Bondo is just too brittle and won't hold up. Wood epoxy putty could be the solution but I'm worried that it won't stick to such a small surface. What is the best method to repair this kind of wear? Thank you

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That wood epoxy putty, then put a cliffy over it.

Be my guess.

If it was mine, I would touch it up with some black and wood colored acrylic paint, then level it by putting some tape all around the inside of the cutout wall and adding a bit of 2PAC in an eye dropper. If you are going to put a cliffy you might not even need to level it.

Adding to the mix. A work in progress:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/frugal-playfield-restoration-subject-matter-flash-gordon#post-6315785

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Don't use Triple Thick on the playfield - it's too thick to flow into the surrounding areas well (edges will likely chip over time). While not as durable as 2-part auto clear, a few light coats of a clear spray lacquer works well to seal and protect touch-ups, and lacquer can be polished and buffed to blend it into the surrounding areas.

I’m doing touch up on my Quick Draw, what clear spray lacquer would you recommend?

I would encourage anyone just catching this topic here, please start from the beginning.
I've followed VIDs advise and had excellent results.

As far as the clear coat discussion, I'll save you the time:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/16#post-1667109
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/16#post-1668988

And if you don't want to invest in the equipment, this alternative seems good for some:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-spraymax-2k-auto-clear-in-a-can-club

I'd paint a white base first. Orange doesn't have the best covering power, and that is how they were originally screen printed.

This is one of the best threads on pinside. IMO. Just saying...

Vid, please forgive me if I have sinned. I have been slowly working on my PinBot which I have owned for about 20 years now. Before that it was in a game room at Fort Dix NJ. The playfield is ok and it plays wonderfully but I am slowly upgrading and fixing. I bought a FreePlay40 ramp, red and blue clear, some Cliffy's and a new vortex in red as I replaced the broken on with black one a few years ago.

When I put the Cliffy's on the out holes I clearly saw they were worn but being lazy at the moment, I put the Cliffy's on and assembled it back. As soon as I did that I realized I should have repaired the outholes first. A picture is attached but the question is whether I should use JB KwikWood or fiberglass? I can easily get whatever under the Cliffy as I don't want to try to remove them as they will undoubtably bend trying to get them off.

I am all ears and I promise not to cut corners in the future. And thanks in advance for your continued wisdom!

///Rich

PS-If anyone with a PinBot is on the fence over whether to get an opaque or clear ramp for PinBot, the clear one is perfect!
PSS-That worn spot in front of the outhole is the worst spot on the playfield. Again it's not perfect but no one who plays it ever comments and my grandchildren come into the house before I get my hugs, asking if PinBot Circuits are Activated!

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Thanks Vid. I was afraid that the Cliffy would be beat up on the edge it was unsupported. I may just put a bit of KwikWood under there and call it a day. And as for restoring the playfield there was a NOS one on eBay this week. Then it would have to be cleared before all the work would start. Nope not for me. The PINBOT works perfectly and looks ok. And I am slowly replacing all the connectors and mechs. Using your guides of course.

Thanks for all you do for us noobs!

///Rich

Vid, I want to clear coat the playfield from a Road Show I picked up. I noticed that it has paint bubbled up in spots. A lot of the spots will be covered by ramps, but some won't. I tried sanding it very lightly in a place where it wouldn't show. Anything more than the lightest sanding removed the bubble. The ones that didn't pop turned lighter. What would you recommend I do to prepare the surface for clearing without making a bunch of paint spots where I may not be able to match paint? My original plan was to sand the surface with 800 grit to help the clear bond to the surface of the playfield. I appreciate your advice. Thanks!

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On Removing Mylar For A System 11 (gonna cross post a little)

What are my chances here? You can see some areas that have lifted, and some insert separation, but also what is super concerning is the weird "waving" and bubbling of the mylar above the right sling. If definitely interferes with the ball travel. I'm prepared to do some solid color fills, repair the damage down to the wood, and 2PAC.
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I’ve pulled Mylar off an F-14 Tomcat, a Rollergames, and a PinBot, each time with only minimal paint loss. I used the heat gun and plastic razor blade method and went slow. I always clean the playfield thoroughly and then do scans of everything before I start in on the Mylar , so that if any portion gets damaged I have a 1-to-1 record of the art from before the Mylar was removed (and any paint that came with it).

Well, I pulled using freeze spray. It's a real good news bad news situation.

The good news - freeze method gave me this:

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No real paint loss and only a couple decals!

Bad news - the wavy damage may be on the playfield itself:

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So the top layer of the playfield is actually wavy?

I'd assume thats just the residual glue left behind. now the fun part begins when you have to clean up all the old glue.

I really *really* hope so. I'll keep everyone posted.

Just so everyone knows, it was upside down compressed air, 2 cans, mostly sprayed on top of the mylar, with some sprayed between the mylar and the playfield when a boost was needed. Did much better than my Firepower and Pinbot pulls. Those were going to be Hardtops anyway, so no huge loss. Just wanted the practice on those.

My hands are covered in bittering agent.

Edit: Yeah it was the glue all waved up. Me dumb.

Ayup. Time to make with the alcohol and flour!

always had great result in removing residual glue with "label off- solvent 50"
Seems a lot easier than messing around with alcohol and flour...

Im using rapid-tac adhesive remover, its the best.

Fast and easy.

The car decal guys use it for sun baked mylar.

Works in seconds, non-toxic.

It'd work good on a system 11? Without damage?

This is for glue removal, NOT mylar removal.
Its really good stuff.

Use the freeze spray method for mylar removal.

NEVER pull the mylar, gently click it off with only the pressure of flexing the mylar or gentle pressure from a plastic razor blade.

IT WILL release if the temperature is right.

Small gentle spritz of freeze now snd again during the removal yields the best temperature control.

The icing up is your guide.

You are simply separating the mylar from its glue.

You are NOT RIPPING IT OFF.

DO NOT pull the mylar as seen in some stupid videos.

It takes little or no pressure to remove mylar if you do it right.

Rrmoving the glue is a huge hassle unless you use rapid-tac adhesive remover.

Then its a 5 min job.

Quick Question. I have sanded these kick out holes with 150 and then 220 grit and cant seem to get the ground in dirt out. I have no issue going to a lower grit, but am curious to see what others are doing to remove these. I also do not want to enlarge the saucers if I go down to low a grit.
Mike

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Its tough. You have to draw it out.

Magic eraser. Silly putty, RTV sealant, various bleaching compounds etc. Tons of things have been tried.

Its a crap shoot.

Pro's just paint them with wood color base, then clear over it.

I am not a pro, but I have painted some in the past. Don't like the look. Almost looks a little plastic like. I also tried wood stain, but sometimes you have to go dark in order to hide the dirt and then that throws off the look as well. Maybe better to leave it as it is.
Open for any other suggestions.
Mike

I painted the saucer in my Mata Hari black and then cleared it before putting down a hardtop. Hides the ground in saucer dirt and IMO makes the playfield look more sinister.

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I already got the mylar off if you look a little above in the thread. I was specifically asking if it was safe for glue removal on fragile System 11s. Honestly the flour and alcohol is not cutting it at all. Nor is goo gone. Or just alcohol. Or naphtha. I can clear about one square inch in 30 minutes with flour and alcohol.

I tried all those ideas and was not impressed at all.

I would definitely try it on any playfield. If in doubt start with a small area first and go from there. Its a kind of citrus oil compound. Its not a solvent.

My sign/car/vinyl guy turned me on to the rapid-tac adhesive remover.

They use it by the gallon at his shop and swear by it for removing old glue.

I tried it and absolutely LOVE it.

I use it all the time on anything sticky like ramp decals or just about anything pinball related.

It works faster and better than anything I have ever used.

Old dried up mylar glue seems to absorb it until it turns to a rubbery gel that slides off with a plastic razor. Its fsacinating to watch the first time you use it, its like magic.

You spray it on, wait 60 seconds or so and easily scrape off the glue.

Smeary remnants are easily cleaned off with a little a little more rapid-tac and then a little naptha.

I removed the glue on a full mylar funhouse playfield in 5 minutes.

Once you try it you will never go back to the other time consuming alternatives.

I'm almost ready to clear coat my RS playfield. I've done a lot of research. Please check my list and let me know if I'm wrong anywhere. Thank you.

1. Sand
2. Naphtha
3. First coat of clear
4. Wait 24 hours
4. Paint corrections
5. Lightly sand or scuff
6. Final coats of clear
7. Wait 24 hours
8. Sanding cascade
9. Wait 2-3 weeks
10. Final cutting and polish

You guys are going to cringe but I removed the goo on my Flash Gordon with lacquer thinner and microfiber cloth.

I noticed the playfield has some sort of factory clear on it under the mylar and tried in an inconspicuous spot. No change was noted so I stripped the whole playfied with lacquer thinner and it came out fine. I do NOT recommend this for most people though, someone is bound to use it in the wrong situation and strip all the paint off.

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I would swap the positions of step 5 and your second step four.

I have a couple questions about the general order in which the playfield restoration/clear coat process takes place. This is a great guide, but I may have missed the actual order somewhere.

Assuming there's nothing terrible wrong, is this correct? What are the wait times as noted below:

Remove Mylar
Clean playfield w/ Naptha/rag (this is done before each coat. I left it off to be concise.)
Hit playfield with magic eraser/alcohol
Fill in cupped inserts
Hit with 800 grit sandpaper to get tooth
Apply light coat of clear to seal stuff (does this count as 1st coat? Do I need to allow cure time?)
Do paint touch ups/decals
Apply clear coat 1 (how long to wait before sanding/applying 2nd coat?)
Remove hills with 120 grit, then 220,...
Sand 1st coat with 800
Apply clear coat 2 (how long to wait before sanding/applying 3nd coat?)
Sand 2nd coat with 800

-Do I need to wait a couple weeks/month here to let stuff cure before applying 3rd coat?-

Apply 3rd coat (do I sand before/after it has cured for a few weeks/month?)
Sand with 800
Sand with 1000
Sand with 1500
Sand with 2000

Buff w/:
Medium Cut
Swirl Remover 2.0
Machine Glaze
Blitz Wax

Thank you for the help/clarification.

Progress with Flash Gordon and enamel paints.

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In my experience, the emphasis on extraordinary wait times when working with 2PAC is misguided. When working on a playfield, I level sand and continue to the next phase as soon as the clear has hardened adequately (generally about 24 hours with the clear I use). Don’t worry about how long the cure time is between phases of your work, it’ll be fine. How long before you start playing is no doubt a lively topic I won’t step into, but for the phases of playfield restoration, no worries.

Thanks for the info guys.

24/48 hours after spraying with 2pac the clear is substantially softer than say, after 10 weeks.

You can do a ball bounce test under the apron and see for yourself.

Also die back is real.

Noticable areas show up at 10 weeks.

I block sanded and recleared my last pf at 10 weeks to help hide the die back.

Die back isnt that terrible but it tends to hold wax in insert crevices if they are too deep.

That's a restoration, but it's not an ULTIMATE restoration.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this product is fantastic. I rubbed with flour and alcohol to the point that I got blisters, but Rapid Tac adhesive remover really did the job. I used a small plastic scraper to remove the old mylar glue and while it was still a chore, it actually came up. And this is on a System 11 game! I couldn't get more than a square inch in an hour using every other method, but this stuff works.

Getting the mylar glue off the old insert plastics on the other hand is still a chore. I don't know what it is about those things but they are VERY hard to remove mylar from. Maybe the glue fused with the lacquer, I dunno. They're all mostly cracked though so I'm just going to mostly replace the inserts.

Now the caveat will be if I can remove all the Rapic Tac off to get good clear adhesion. We'll find out soon.

Thanks for the reccomendation and I'll keep the thread informed.