(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

8 years ago



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There are 7299 posts in this topic. You are on page 146 of 146.
#7251 14 days ago

Question for the group. I have a World Cup Soccer 94 with some major ghosting above multiple inserts. I don't think the horse syringe technique is going to cut it. It's to the point where the clear is extremely brittle and chips away. Would it be foolish to cut around these areas with an exacto knife, remove the bad clear, fill level with water thin super glue (in thin layers), and then replace the artwork with insert decals? That seems logical to me, but I'm not an expert.

#7252 14 days ago
Quoted from bbriese:

When I did my diner restore, this orange worked matched well right out of the bottle, no adjustments needed[quoted image]

vid1900 and bbriese

Thanks for all the help on fixing up the top of the Diner playfield. I still have a couple touchups to do before I put mylar over this repair, but I'm pretty happy with the results. Better than the worn out spots it had before.

Alberto

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#7253 14 days ago
Quoted from Peruman:

I still have a couple touchups to do before I put mylar over this repair, but I'm pretty happy with the results. Better than the worn out spots it had before.

Good job! Looks great

#7254 14 days ago
Quoted from lpeters82:

I have a World Cup Soccer 94 with some major ghosting above multiple inserts. I don't think the horse syringe technique is going to cut it. It's to the point where the clear is extremely brittle and chips away. Would it be foolish to cut around these areas with an exacto knife, remove the bad clear, fill level with water thin super glue (in thin layers), and then replace the artwork with insert decals? That seems logical to me, but I'm not an expert.

why would the syringe not work?

Thousands of playfields have been repaired like that, with no failures that I know of.

Lets see some pics....

#7255 14 days ago
Quoted from Peruman:

vid1900 and bbriese
Thanks for all the help on fixing up the top of the Diner playfield. I still have a couple touchups to do before I put mylar over this repair, but I'm pretty happy with the results. Better than the worn out spots it had before.
Alberto[quoted image][quoted image]

Big improvement, Alberto!

#7256 13 days ago

After applying paint with an airbrush, how long are you supposed to cure the paint with heat? 30 seconds? 10 minutes? Just until you see that it's dried?

#7257 13 days ago

Should I put this cam unit in dishwasher or clean by hand.

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#7258 13 days ago
Quoted from gawlicd:

Should I put this cam unit in dishwasher or clean by hand.
[quoted image]

Clean the contacts.

#7259 13 days ago
Quoted from Bugsy:

After applying paint with an airbrush, how long are you supposed to cure the paint with heat? 30 seconds? 10 minutes? Just until you see that it's dried?

Depends on the brand, how thick it was applied, humidity......20 seconds might be a good starting point for an even spray

-1
#7260 12 days ago

.

#7261 11 days ago

I'm having a hard time sourcing the round 1-3/16" orange rollover inserts for a Centaur. Anyone know where I can find some?

#7262 10 days ago

Okay, here's a lesson in leave shit alone. I noticed my flippers weren't 100% in alignment on my Surfer so I thought I would adjust them. Mistake. The screw head snapped off. It must be seized in there. I can't remove the flipper assembly because the flipper bat is still installed. I have to do this in the pin.

I am trying to use a Dremel and drill it out but the bit doesn't seem to be eating into the metal very well. You can see the little dent I've put in it after 5 minutes of drilling.

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#7263 10 days ago

Get a screw extracting tool to back it out.

But I feel your pain, seems like those little 5 minute things always turn out to be hours of work.

#7264 10 days ago
Quoted from Black_Knight:

Get a screw extracting tool to back it out.
But I feel your pain, seems like those little 5 minute things always turn out to be hours of work.

Thanks. It's been a while (like years) since I looked at screw extractors. Looks like they have advanced a lot while I've been away and that they'll probably do the trick. I'll report back after the fix.

[EDIT] So now that I'm looking for replacement set screws I'm finding articles and wiki's everywhere that basically say throw this type of set screw out. I wish I had know this a couple weeks ago. New question...

What do I replace these set screws with? I would like Allen type screws but is there a part number???

#7265 10 days ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Okay, here's a lesson in leave shit alone. I noticed my flippers weren't 100% in alignment on my Surfer so I thought I would adjust them. Mistake. The screw head snapped off.

It happens to everyone sooner or later

The problem on your Surfer is that the Pawl (sometimes called a "lever" by Gottlieb) is no longer available, so you've got to be careful not to ruin it.

If I were you:

Cut through the nylon Bushing AND the flipper shaft with a dremel (SAFETY GLASSES and shop-vac running are required). This will free the mech from the playfield.

Find your set of Reverse drill bits that you have no idea why you keep, and drill out the screw shaft (these are soft metal screws). About 80% of the time, as you drill, the broken screw will suddenly spin out - still attached to the bit. You are going to need a vise to hold the Pawl, otherwise you will instantly break the drill bit

Some PB Blaster may help free the screw shaft if you soak it overnight before the drilling.

It's such a tiny screw (8-32 I believe) that a Screw Extractor is going to be impossible (especially if it's some crappy asian made extractor)

PBR will have a flipper rebuild kit and of course, you will need a new flipper shaft

http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-GFLIP02A

#7266 10 days ago
Quoted from No_Skill:

I'm having a hard time sourcing the round 1-3/16" orange rollover inserts for a Centaur. Anyone know where I can find some?

I ran into the same problem with my Around the World project. I bought two 1 3/16 inserts and made them.

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#7267 10 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It happens to everyone sooner or later
The problem on your Surfer is that the Pawl (sometimes called a "lever" by Gottlieb) is no longer available, so you've got to be careful not to ruin it.
If I were you:
Cut through the nylon Bushing AND the flipper shaft with a dremel (SAFETY GLASSES and shop-vac running are required). This will free the mech from the playfield.
Find your set of Reverse drill bits that you have no idea why you keep, and drill out the screw shaft (these are soft metal screws). About 80% of the time, as you drill, the broken screw will suddenly spin out - still attached to the bit. You are going to need a vise to hold the Pawl, otherwise you will instantly break the drill bit
Some PB Blaster may help free the screw shaft if you soak it overnight before the drilling.
It's such a tiny screw (8-32 I believe) that a Screw Extractor is going to be impossible (especially if it's some crappy asian made extractor)
PBR will have a flipper rebuild kit and of course, you will need a new flipper shaft
http://www.pbresource.com/rebuildkit.html#KT-GFLIP02A

Damn. I really don't want to bust out the Dremel. I wanted to avoid a shower of sparks if I could. I ordered some screw extractors from Amazon today. They should be here by tomorrow. I couldn't find the reverse bits that I have no idea why I'm keeping. Turns out I don't know where I'm keeping them either.

I actually have a flipper rebuild kit from PBR already. I even have new shoes and shafts. I thought the rebuild kit would include the pawl, but discovered it didn't and now you have told me why. This seems like a pretty important piece to not include! I purchased the rebuild kit ages ago and I've never gotten around to it. It's a shame actually, I've already had the flippers apart already to see how busted up they were. I cleaned them up but didn't replace any parts as there was hardly any wear. This game must have sat idle for years and years or someone must have already swapped things out. I could have swapped out these cruddy set screws then but I didn't know...

So if I manage to get this busted screw out I'll report back here (either way), but for replacement screws I am guessing I just need to get these;
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/4008-01079-05

Tim

#7268 10 days ago
Quoted from Fifty:

This seems like a pretty important piece to not include!

If there were any left on earth, I'm sure PRB would include them, but it's been years since those dried up.

Quoted from Fifty:

So if I manage to get this busted screw out I'll report back here (either way), but for replacement screws I am guessing I just need to get these;
https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/4008-01079-05

I think the threaded part on the Gottlieb screw is 1/4" long, but it's unclear from the Marco description, how long the threaded part is, or if the tip of the screw has the conical "grub screw" shape.

Assuming it's "yes" to the above, then just add a #8 toothed lock washer and you are good to go

#7269 9 days ago

Vid I’m about to repaint and clear everything on this playfield and have a question related to the colors Gottlieb originally used. The white on my playfield looks more like a beige than white. Do you believe it was originally white or some off shade of beige?

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#7270 9 days ago

It was white when first manufactured

#7271 9 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It was white when first manufactured

Thanks Vid. The white will change the look and really brighten things up. It’s amazing how much all the colors have changed over time. I’ll just use the white that is in the set from Createx

#7272 9 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It was white when first manufactured

You can see it under the post locations.

#7273 9 days ago

Received the screw extractors today. Put the drill in reverse and tried it out. I couldn't even get the bit to eat into the metal and I was giving it some decent pressure. There was no bite at all. The extractor bits I got look like knock offs. They don't feel sharp at all. I'm a little pissed to be honest. We were under lockdown until today so I wasn't able to go into a Home Depot, but I'll hit one tomorrow and try some different ones.

#7274 9 days ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Received the screw extractors today. Put the drill in reverse and tried it out. I couldn't even get the bit to eat into the metal and I was giving it some decent pressure. There was no bite at all. The extractor bits I got look like knock offs. They don't feel sharp at all. I'm a little pissed to be honest. We were under lockdown until today so I wasn't able to go into a Home Depot, but I'll hit one tomorrow and try some different ones.

It sounds like you are using them incorrectly. You need to drill a hole for it to bite into. Reverse drills are different.

///Rich

#7275 9 days ago

Correct, screw extractors are meant to fit in a predrilled hole.
Get a few, because they will probably snap before going dull, new drill bits. Start small diameter than move up in size. Just be careful not to drill into the flipper assembly threads. Get a hole big enough for the extractor to bite or as Sana’a pointed out it spins out. This will normally happen with drill in reverse when you’re backing it out. And yes it is a cussing job.

#7276 8 days ago
Quoted from RichWolfson:

It sounds like you are using them incorrectly. You need to drill a hole for it to bite into. Reverse drills are different.
///Rich

Possibly. I watched a video on how to use them though. The bit in the video chewed into the metal. It created the hole. You could see metal flakes. Then they flipped the bit over and extracted it. Maybe they were using an aluminum screw...

Quoted from Pandelis:

Correct, screw extractors are meant to fit in a predrilled hole.
Get a few, because they will probably snap before going dull, new drill bits. Start small diameter than move up in size. Just be careful not to drill into the flipper assembly threads. Get a hole big enough for the extractor to bite or as Sana’a pointed out it spins out. This will normally happen with drill in reverse when you’re backing it out. And yes it is a cussing job.

Cussing mode enabled.

#7277 8 days ago
Quoted from Fifty:

Received the screw extractors today. Put the drill in reverse and tried it out. I couldn't even get the bit to eat into the metal and I was giving it some decent pressure. There was no bite at all.

A #8 screw is so small that you are really asking a lot from an extractor.

Try drilling a hole in the center (with reverse drill bit), THEN see if the extractor can get a bite into it.

People give me their guitars with a Tremolo that they broke off the #10 arm (thats 10-32 thread) and say they can't get an extractor to work. "It's a Snap-on extractor, and it does not do shlt!!!!". I'll drill first, and most of the time the reverse bit catches and spins it out; if not, I use an extractor in the drilled hole.

#7278 8 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

A #8 screw is so small that you are really asking a lot from an extractor.
Try drilling a hole in the center (with reverse drill bit), THEN see if the extractor can get a bite into it.
People give me their guitars with a Tremolo that they broke off the #10 arm (thats 10-32 thread) and say they can't get an extractor to work. "It's a Snap-on extractor, and it does not do shlt!!!!". I'll drill first, and most of the time the reverse bit catches and spins it out; if not, I use an extractor in the drilled hole.

I used my drill tonight and got a nice hole in the center of the broken screw. The extractor managed to bite this time, but it wasn't able to hold. It just spun out. I ended up drilling it out what was left of the set screw and managed to get the flipper out of the pawl. The hole in the pawl isn't the original size any longer. All those attempts with the extractors, and drill bits widened the hole. Not by much, but it is noticeable.

I guess it's time to bust out the tap and die set? At least now I can buy whatever size set screws I want.

#7279 8 days ago

Yep, drill and tap a 10-32 hole

#7280 3 days ago

Hey everyone, after reading through the section about touch up paint nearly 20 times, I finally decided to touch up my T2. Before and after pictures are included (the after picture still needs the orange paint around the insert, but you get the idea.) Don’t look too closely either, you’ll see my imperfections. But I figured it’s not terrible for my first time trying to match paint, use an airbrush, using frisket, etc. Thanks Vid for all the advice and suggestions.

However, the new paint is rather dull under the correct lighting. The old paint has a decent shine to it after I cleaned and waxed it, but the newly applied paint does not have that shine. I’m curious as to know if I apply a coat of wax over the new paint, will that help shine it up? Or is it better to keep wax off the new paint?

Im also wondering what is a good way to protect the paint? I’m not doing a full blow restore, so I’m not clearing the whole playfield. Should I clear the small area with a rattle can, wax it, apply wax and then cover with Mylar?

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#7281 3 days ago

NICE work!
Thats quite an improvement over what it was.

#7282 2 days ago

So I managed to get a replacement pawl and got some set screws with Allen key sockets. Everything is back to normal now. That was a mini-nightmare I would like to avoid. Thank you for the help everyone.

IMG_20210221_115720 (resized).jpg

#7283 2 days ago
Quoted from Bugsy:

Im also wondering what is a good way to protect the paint? I’m not doing a full blow restore, so I’m not clearing the whole playfield. Should I clear the small area with a rattle can, wax it, apply wax and then cover with Mylar?

Wax it and put mylar over it

The paint will quickly wear without it

#7284 2 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Wax it and put mylar over it

That’s what I was thinking but wanted to confirm. Thanks for all the advice Vid. Your contributions to pinball have been immense.

#7285 2 days ago

Something I've been curious about is how people are setting up their playfield for the work. Anybody try having the playfield erected upright on an easel, or is the main consensus that you have to do this kind of work flat, looking downward?

#7286 2 days ago

Flat is best

No runs, no drips, and none of the tools roll away

#7287 2 days ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Something I've been curious about is how people are setting up their playfield for the work. Anybody try having the playfield erected upright on an easel, or is the main consensus that you have to do this kind of work flat, looking downward?

Quoted from vid1900:

Flat is best
No runs, no drips, and none of the tools roll away

I'll second Vid on this. I'm probably only going to do one playfield, so rather than the expense to build a rotisserie, I built a simple wooden frame to hold the playfield without my having to strip the underside. If you search back in this topic for 'transport frame' you will see what I took my inspiration from. It's not as convenient as a rotisserie, but a lot cheaper at the cost of having to take the playfield out and flip it over to do anything on the other side. Sits on a table, sawhorses, whatever you have.

#7288 2 days ago
Quoted from PinballBillinFL:

I'll second Vid on this. I'm probably only going to do one playfield, so rather than the expense to build a rotisserie, I built a simple wooden frame to hold the playfield without my having to strip the underside. If you search back in this topic for 'transport frame' you will see what I took my inspiration from. It's not as convenient as a rotisserie, but a lot cheaper at the cost of having to take the playfield out and flip it over to do anything on the other side. Sits on a table, sawhorses, whatever you have.

A lot of people just use cheap plastic saw horses padded with some scrap foam sheet or old pillows.

Chris Hutchens uses old recycled windshield racks from his automotive days...

#7289 2 days ago

Anyone have any suggestions for restoring rusty ramp flaps?

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#7290 2 days ago
Quoted from Bugsy:

Anyone have any suggestions for restoring rusty ramp flaps?
[quoted image]

I'd soak them overnight in EvapoRust, then run them thru a tumbler overnight (with Walnut media to get any more crud off) and then a tumbler again overnight (with Corn Cob media, mixed with metal polish, to get it to shine). Finish off with a buffing wheel if you have one.

#7291 2 days ago
Quoted from Bugsy:

Anyone have any suggestions for restoring rusty ramp flaps?
[quoted image]

Sand them out, wash them with naptha and re-blue them with gun metal blue or black.

Wax over them after they are done.

#7292 2 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Sand them out, wash them with naptha and re-blue them with gun metal blue or black.
Wax over them after they are done.

Could just replace them, easy enough.

#7293 2 days ago

I have done the re-blue route. Both on ramp flaps and em rifle games.
Seems to work well but if it is available, i would just change it out.

#7294 1 day ago

fyi - for scanning. I gave up on finding the old HP and I purchased the Epson Perfection V39 ($144)

The reason is that the top cover comes off completely and it will work upside down. This allows you to lay it onto a playfield or cabinet and scan. Its not perfect when upside down, a slight bit blurry (see pic) but its good enough that it can be traced for photoshop touchup work. I am also experimenting with holding it vertical and that seems to be a lot sharper.

img013 (resized).jpg
#7295 1 day ago

That is an incredibly blurry scan. Do you find that you've been able to successfully work with that image?

#7296 1 day ago
Quoted from radial_head:

That is an incredibly blurry scan. Do you find that you've been able to successfully work with that image?

It worked well as a reference for some photoshop cleanup. Here is an in-progress pic overlaid ontop of the scan. I've also been experimenting with holding it vertically which seems to result in a much sharper scan, though I only went 150dpi for the cabinet. I will have to try it at 300dpi and see how it looks as well.

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#7297 1 day ago
Quoted from mark532011:

fyi - for scanning. I gave up on finding the old HP and I purchased the Epson Perfection V39 ($144)
The reason is that the top cover comes off completely and it will work upside down. This allows you to lay it onto a playfield or cabinet and scan. Its not perfect when upside down, a slight bit blurry (see pic) but its good enough that it can be traced for photoshop touchup work. I am also experimenting with holding it vertical and that seems to be a lot sharper.[quoted image]

I am guessing your scanner glass is not right on the surface? Scanners have a very small focus depth and any gap between your object and the glass gives you blur.

#7298 1 day ago
Quoted from mark532011:

fyi - for scanning. I gave up on finding the old HP and I purchased the Epson Perfection V39 ($144)
The reason is that the top cover comes off completely and it will work upside down. This allows you to lay it onto a playfield or cabinet and scan. Its not perfect when upside down, a slight bit blurry

Try scanning with the playfield upside down instead. Steady the playfield by hand or by supporting it with something on a larger table. I use this method with a fairly old Epson Stylus scanner and have had no issues with blurring.
I *have* had some issues with scans being true 1, but haven’t gotten to the bottom of whether that’s due to the playfield being slightly off of the surface of the glass, or if it’s something more arcane to do with digital image issues. The problem has been in inconsistent; I’ve taken to marking out 6” on a piece of masking tape at the edge of the scan area so that I can re-size if necessary. It works.
In any case, I doubt the fuzzy image here is due to the scanner being upside down. More likely it moved a tiny bit during scanning. 300dpi is good for most of what we need to do. If you wanna go crazy, go with 600dpi, but if you’re tracing in AI that’s definitely overkill.

#7299 11 hours ago

I don't want to hijack this thread so I created a new one for scanner alternatives and how well they can work.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/scanner-alternative-to-hp

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