Ottawa, ON
Those decals are really impressive @sethbenjamin! What brand do you use, and do you use the decal solutions? Any issues clearcoating them?
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Quoted from dr_nybble:Those decals are really impressive sethbenjamin! What brand do you use, and do you use the decal solutions? Any issues clearcoating them?
I use the decal paper that pops up on Amazon, though I should be shopping from Blick on general principle...
I don’t think brand matters a whole lot when it comes to decal paper, in my experience. I’ve used the “Sunnyscopa” white and clear papers with good results, for playfield repair and for reproduction plastics.
I use the decal solution vid1900 recommends. it’s helpful if you get a wrinkle, though usually a bad wrinkle means making a new decal as the toner flakes off. Still, the setting solution seems to help get the decal to flatten completely. Especially nice for edges, which can sometimes lift a bit and be hard to get to lay just so.
I’ve never had a problem with the clear. Always out decals between clear layers and spray a mist coat first, then a normal coat ~15 minutes later.
More important when making decals is minding the printer settings. Color adjustments can alter the output significantly. So you want to be consistent about how you adjust those sliders, and not deviate once you find the right combination. My printer has red, blue and yellow adjustment, as well as contrast and saturation. Had to fiddle with them to dmfind rhe right match to the existing paint, somewhat nerve-wracking...
Quoted from sethbenjamin:More important when making decals is minding the printer settings. Color adjustments can alter the output significantly. So you want to be consistent about how you adjust those sliders, and not deviate once you find the right combination. My printer has red, blue and yellow adjustment, as well as contrast and saturation. Had to fiddle with them to dmfind rhe right match to the existing paint, somewhat nerve-wracking...
Do you use a laser printer?
Quoted from Silverstreak02:Do you use a laser printer?
Yes, a non-fancy Brother, under $300 on Amazon. I busted it on this job!
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Yes, a non-fancy Brother, under $300 on Amazon. I busted it on this job!
Brothers laser printers are great, though I only have a B/W one. Looking to perhaps get a one for color but those cartridges are expensive!
Quoted from wayinla:Brothers laser printers are great, though I only have a B/W one. Looking to perhaps get a one for color but those cartridges are expensive!
This one worked great until it wrapped a piece of decal paper around the last drum, that one that gets real hot - it glued the paper to itself! There was absolutely no way to access it - believe me I tried - so I had to slice the paper and grab at it with a hemostat. Not good. So now it seems like there’s a spot where the toner doesn’t bond to the paper.
I guess the lesson here is to only do a few decals at a time, before the printer gets really hot. But really, I wasn’t using it that hard! I need to figure out if the problem is permanent. A replacement printer wouldn’t be the end of the world, though it would be nice to get one that can lay down a truly opaque black, for places involving decals over inserts. (I usually have to double those up.) But the options seem to be ~$250 8.5 x 11 home office printer, ~$3k 11 x 17 medium format printer, or $$$$$$$ professional print shop model.
And yeah, they nail you on the toners. FWIW, I had to run a LOT of test decals while working on this playfield and the toner supply seemed to be holding out pretty well.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:More important when making decals is minding the printer settings. Color adjustments can alter the output significantly. So you want to be consistent about how you adjust those sliders, and not deviate once you find the right combination. My printer has red, blue and yellow adjustment, as well as contrast and saturation. Had to fiddle with them to dmfind rhe right match to the existing paint, somewhat nerve-wracking...
I used to use a color laser, it would jam and could streak. Now I just take all my printing needs to Kinko's. $1 per page color and like 0.15 for B/W.
It's SO much easier. But then again I have one two miles from where I work.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:This one worked great until it wrapped a piece of decal paper around the last drum, that one that gets real hot - it glued the paper to itself! There was absolutely no way to access it - believe me I tried - so I had to slice the paper and grab at it with a hemostat. Not good. So now it seems like there’s a spot where the toner doesn’t bond to the paper.
I guess the lesson here is to only do a few decals at a time, before the printer gets really hot. But really, I wasn’t using it that hard! I need to figure out if the problem is permanent. A replacement printer wouldn’t be the end of the world, though it would be nice to get one that can lay down a truly opaque black, for places involving decals over inserts. (I usually have to double those up.) But the options seem to be ~$250 8.5 x 11 home office printer, ~$3k 11 x 17 medium format printer, or $$$$$$$ professional print shop model.
And yeah, they nail you on the toners. FWIW, I had to run a LOT of test decals while working on this playfield and the toner supply seemed to be holding out pretty well.
Drums for brother are fairly inexpensive. I just bought one for my all in one for less than $20
I have a canon lazer for color.
Its pretty accurate. Cost about $140.
Carts are not to bad if you get the discount ones from discount office supplies online.
I make ramp decals and such with it.
Quoted from Atari_Daze:I used to use a color laser, it would jam and could streak. Now I just take all my printing needs to Kinko's. $1 per page color and like 0.15 for B/W.
It's SO much easier. But then again I have one two miles from where I work.
Kinkos/fedex won't do any work for me here due to covid concerns.
I cant get them to even bind a manual right now.
Quoted from Atari_Daze:I used to use a color laser, it would jam and could streak. Now I just take all my printing needs to Kinko's. $1 per page color and like 0.15 for B/W.
It's SO much easier. But then again I have one two miles from where I work.
I can’t see making that work efficiently; for something like this I ended up printing a lot of tests before arriving at the final pantone values. I need to be able to print, lay down a test, tweak, try again, repeat.
Posting this here since no one has heard of this poly ...
Anyone have experience with this water based poly from Crystalac? Looking for something a bit more clear/durable than traditional polys and lacquers. Yes, I'm well aware of auto-clears, but I'm not interested in hearing about the pros and cons of those products, since I won't be using them on my EM games I'm looking to clear due to health reasons and no local clear coat guys in my area...
Originally created for the luthier trade, but their products have branched out:
http://www.crystalac.info/extreme-protection-polyurethane.html
I have not heard of that one.
I have used Varethane water based urethane for full clear coat and to protect touch ups.
The colors are not as vivid as auto clear, but honestly, it is quick and easy. It is especially good at protecting touch ups on a playfield you are not going to completely clear coat.
It stands up very well and can be easily removed if you go to a full restoration.
I have switched to using the 2k rattle can 2PAC for full playfield clear coats and I like the results.
If you try it out, report back how well it works and if it stands up to abuse.
Limassol
Quoted from Dono:Posting this here since no one has heard of this poly ...
Anyone have experience with this water based poly from Crystalac? Looking for something a bit more clear/durable than traditional polys and lacquers. Yes, I'm well aware of auto-clears, but I'm not interested in hearing about the pros and cons of those products, since I won't be using them on my EM games I'm looking to clear due to health reasons and no local clear coat guys in my area...
Originally created for the luthier trade, but their products have branched out:
http://www.crystalac.info/extreme-protection-polyurethane.html
It is polyurethane based , single part. I used a similar product that was for wooden floors. The description , prep and drying times was the same as the one you mentioned.
I used it on my first ever restoration. It tends to yellow a bit with time , at least mine did after 2 years . Not much but it was noticeable. Other than that if you do it properly and apply enough layers you will not have problems regarding protection. If you later have the option to apply 2pac , it can be probably removed with aceton .
I'm having trouble cleaning the playfield on my Bally Bingo Laguna Beach. Looks like some sort of coating that won't come off. I've tried everything but paint thinner. My guess the motor below the field probably baked it in. The rest of the playing field is taking a lot of elbow grease.
Any ideas?
IMG_9040 (resized).jpgQuoted from plumbertim1:I'm having trouble cleaning the playfield on my Bally Bingo Laguna Beach. Looks like some sort of coating that won't come off. I've tried everything but paint thinner. My guess the motor below the field probably baked it in. The rest of the playing field is taking a lot of elbow grease.
Any ideas?
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Looks like maybe what’s left of the original lacquer? Have you tried alcohol on magic eraser? I’d be REALLY careful not to let any solvents touch the areas without that coating, though. It could take the bare artwork right off.
Quoted from plumbertim1:I'm having trouble cleaning the playfield on my Bally Bingo Laguna Beach. Looks like some sort of coating that won't come off. I've tried everything but paint thinner. My guess the motor below the field probably baked it in. The rest of the playing field is taking a lot of elbow grease.
Any ideas?
[quoted image]
Try krud cutter on a rag.
It kills nicotine stains.
Quoted from PinballAir:Could it be polyurethane?
I do not think think the early games had any clear, not even laquer.
Early games used shellac, its yellow.
Quoted from John_in_NC:Who here has recreated/airbrushed wood grain? Would love to add that to my skill set.
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Bueller?..... Bueller??
Quoted from John_in_NC:Who here has recreated/airbrushed wood grain? Would love to add that to my skill set.
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That is a HSA restored playfield. I know exactly how to do that. It is all done by airbrushing. You need to airbrush the darker woodgrain lines and then do the lighter tan flesh color on top of it. Your doing the flesh tan color in very light coats so the darker brown paint under it can be seen.
1 week later
So, increasingly I am finding decals to be the best way to restore worn/missing artwork on playfields, but I am finding that it can be tricky to get truly “solid” blocks of color using a laser printer.
I already own a very good inkjet printer which can make beautiful photographic prints, but the prevailing wisdom from Vid is that inkjets are to be avoided as they are prone to fading over time.
Surely there have been advances in inkjet prints/fixatives/papers in the years since Vid first wrote this guide? I get very good results with laser printed decals, but I could get even better ones using inkjet. Also, doesn’t 2PAC block UV, rendering the issue kind of moot?
Just curious to hear if others are thinking along the same lines.
Pigment based ink jet prints should last about 100 years. Dye based inks can fade quicker, although I think they last longer if sprayed with fixative.
There are plenty of articles on line.
Note: I used to have a great pigment based photo printer (Epson R2880), but the problem with that one, as well as all of them from what I understand is that they need to be used very often, like once every few days or once per week at minimum so the inks don't dry up and clog the nozzles / print head. The inks are also pretty costly. Note that dye based inks may not be waterproof.
Look for archival or lightfast ink printers like Epson Ultrachrome.
Like this one: https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers/Large-Format/SureColor-P700-13-Inch-Photo-Printer/p/C11CH38201
So I have a repro gold PF from CPR which at a big glow of glue? behind one of the insert. I tried cleaning it out with a Qtip and alcohol but it just spread it around. It all stuck and dried out now...
I am not sure how to clean that out without damaging it? I can't imagine the insert needs to be swapped and the whole thing recleared... right?
20200918_182508 (resized).jpgQuoted from hisokajp:So I have a repro gold PF from CPR which at a big glow of glue? behind one of the insert. I tried cleaning it out with a Qtip and alcohol but it just spread it around. It all stuck and dried out now...
I am not sure how to clean that out without damaging it? I can't imagine the insert needs to be swapped and the whole thing recleared... right?
[quoted image]
Can it be seen from the top?
Just carve away any glue that might cast a shadow on the insert.
Glue globs and errant wood fibers are normal.
yeah, looks very cloudy and blotchy, with or without light it's pretty visible... it looks better when I put some Naphta on top so I am wondering if I could put a couple drop of clear in the back? or something similar?
I feel if i tried too hard the lens will get worse, i really don't want to have to get the lens swap and PF cleared again...
Quoted from hisokajp:yeah, looks very cloudy and blotchy, with or without light it's pretty visible... it looks better when I put some Naphta on top so I am wondering if I could put a couple drop of clear in the back? or something similar?
I feel if i tried too hard the lens will get worse, i really don't want to have to get the lens swap and PF cleared again...
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
I would try carefully removing the glue first.
Quoted from hisokajp:So I have a repro gold PF from CPR which at a big glow of glue? behind one of the insert. I tried cleaning it out with a Qtip and alcohol but it just spread it around. It all stuck and dried out now...
I am not sure how to clean that out without damaging it? I can't imagine the insert needs to be swapped and the whole thing recleared... right?
[quoted image]
try acetone to clean as much as you can ,scrub away the glue with a Dremel or manually, clean with naphtha , Partially fill the bottom with some clear.
Does anybody have experience with the Planetary Pinball apron decals? I'm thinking about going that route rather than trying to cut my own stencils. Are they an actual waterslide decal, or some sort of vinyl? I should be able to shoot 2PAC (Spraymax) over either, I'd think..
TIA for any input!
Quoted from PinballBillinFL:Does anybody have experience with the Planetary Pinball apron decals? I'm thinking about going that route rather than trying to cut my own stencils. Are they an actual waterslide decal, or some sort of vinyl? I should be able to shoot 2PAC (Spraymax) over either, I'd think..
TIA for any input!
Stick on vinyl
Quoted from PinballBillinFL:Does anybody have experience with the Planetary Pinball apron decals? I'm thinking about going that route rather than trying to cut my own stencils. Are they an actual waterslide decal, or some sort of vinyl? I should be able to shoot 2PAC (Spraymax) over either, I'd think..
TIA for any input!
I started to restore a TOTAN apron planning to use PPS decals, but up close, they are simply inkjet looking print on sticky vinyl. Not very exciting. I chose a different approach and sand blasted the apron, painted on sunny gold and clearcoated the metal, and then applied laser cut vinyl from Treasure Cove. Looked PERFECT when I was done, way better than it would have with inkjet printed stuff. That said, I had options. You may not depending on what you plan to cover...
Quoted from pinballinreno:Stick on vinyl
Quoted from Markharris2000:I started to restore a TOTAN apron planning to use PPS decals, but up close, they are simply inkjet looking print on sticky vinyl. Not very exciting. I chose a different approach and sand blasted the apron, painted on sunny gold and clearcoated the metal, and then applied laser cut vinyl from Treasure Cove. Looked PERFECT when I was done, way better than it would have with inkjet printed stuff. That said, I had options. You may not depending on what you plan to cover...
Thanks to both! My original plan was to cut some stencils using my Silhouette Cameo, but thought this might be a quicker path. I think I'm back to doing my own, and airbrushing the colors.
Quoted from Boslaw:The Silhouette is really a critical tool for repaint (vs minor touch ups). My before and after - airbrushed everything using Silhouette vinyl stencils.
[quoted image][quoted image]
If i werent slowly backing out of the hobby i would purchase the silouette.
I still dabble in restoring but mostly just use frisket as it is cheaper.
1 week later
I just want to comment and say how much of a pain in the ass it is to color-match using Createx paint. It's probably not a drawback inherent to only this brand, but there are too many variables affecting your initial color-matched paint you mixed up. I had my paint change color when it dried which was expected, when it had mineral spirits applied (mimick clearcoat) which was expected, but it also changed color when I added required reducer to use in the airbrush. It's very difficult trying to project that many steps out on how the color will eventually be.
I finally airbrushed 5 of the 6 yellow bands to my liking, I still have to clean up the black edges. And I didn't airbrush the entire band on any of them, I stopped where there was a forgiving breakup of the color, as I only wanted to paint where there was severe planking and to keep as much of the originality as possible. One of the yellow bands looked fine so I left it original.
Are there more user-friendly paints out there that are of the same quality as Createx? I've seen Tamiya brand, but I do not know if that brand suffers the same high-learning curve on mixing.
I am using Golden High Flow paints.
They have an online colour mixer here: https://www.goldenpaints.com/mixer
The colour mixer is worth the price of admission for me.
Zero problems with paint coming up with masking, dries pretty fast, sprays straight out of the bottle. Not cheap but they are high quality.
Quoted from dr_nybble:I am using Golden High Flow paints.
Interesting, going to have to investigate!
That online color mixer is such a valuable tool. You likely want to make sure your monitor is calibrated to accurate color. Nearly every monitor is set to a color temperature that is too blue, and some monitors don't even have color correction settings. Fortunately I have a colorimeter and a monitor that is color-calibrated, this thing could come in handy. The Golden High Flow paint is priced the same as Createx.
Quoted from Flipper_McGavin:I just want to comment and say how much of a pain in the ass it is to color-match using Createx paint. It's probably not a drawback inherent to only this brand, but there are too many variables affecting your initial color-matched paint you mixed up. I had my paint change color when it dried which was expected, when it had mineral spirits applied (mimick clearcoat) which was expected, but it also changed color when I added required reducer to use in the airbrush. It's very difficult trying to project that many steps out on how the color will eventually be.
I finally airbrushed 5 of the 6 yellow bands to my liking, I still have to clean up the black edges. And I didn't airbrush the entire band on any of them, I stopped where there was a forgiving breakup of the color, as I only wanted to paint where there was severe planking and to keep as much of the originality as possible. One of the yellow bands looked fine so I left it original.
Are there more user-friendly paints out there that are of the same quality as Createx? I've seen Tamiya brand, but I do not know if that brand suffers the same high-learning curve on mixing.
[quoted image]
That looks great!
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