(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

7 years ago



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#6951 61 days ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

Follow VIDs method and you can do it!
Living proof attached. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

beautiful!

#6952 61 days ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

Follow VIDs method and you can do it!
Living proof attached. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

C3FF70EE-F8CD-477B-9F51-C106632ABA7E.gif
#6953 61 days ago
Quoted from jaybird5619:

do you paint black key lines or wet slide decals?

On the SBM example I posted, keylines along with the insert art were done with waterslides.

#6954 60 days ago
Quoted from jaybird5619:

I'm about to take the plunge and try my first restore/clear. I've read all 139 pages of this Forum (much of it twice), but still have some questions I'm hoping you pros can help me with:
How would you approach the section of the playfield in the photo?
1. In what order would you paint each of the 5 colors (i.e., black, magenta, orange, cream, white)?
2. In the central column, would you paint each color it's actual width, allowing for some overlap, OR would you paint so that successive layers fully extend beneath the next layer? For example, assuming black is first color, would I paint the full width of the entire column black, then, assuming orange is next, paint the orange all the way to the right edge of the column (covering the black underneath), then the cream over the orange (covering the orange underneath), etc? (Hope this makes sense).
3. How would you handle the black outlines of the boxes? Would you paint & mask, or go with decals? If decals, how would you section them up?
4. How about the white "Same player shoots again" lettering -- white decal paper?
4. Am I out of my mind?
Any guidance is greatly appreciated.
[quoted image]

I would work..light to dark. And take a picture of the numbers, upload them into photo-shop and print out waterslide decals. Mask off each color and paint the entire stripe.

#6955 59 days ago
Quoted from jaybird5619:

I'm about to take the plunge and try my first restore/clear. I've read all 139 pages of this Forum (much of it twice), but still have some questions I'm hoping you pros can help me with:
How would you approach the section of the playfield in the photo?
1. In what order would you paint each of the 5 colors (i.e., black, magenta, orange, cream, white)?
2. In the central column, would you paint each color it's actual width, allowing for some overlap, OR would you paint so that successive layers fully extend beneath the next layer? For example, assuming black is first color, would I paint the full width of the entire column black, then, assuming orange is next, paint the orange all the way to the right edge of the column (covering the black underneath), then the cream over the orange (covering the orange underneath), etc? (Hope this makes sense).
3. How would you handle the black outlines of the boxes? Would you paint & mask, or go with decals? If decals, how would you section them up?
4. How about the white "Same player shoots again" lettering -- white decal paper?
4. Am I out of my mind?
Any guidance is greatly appreciated.
[quoted image]

Well, I'm a little late in the game here and you've received pretty good guidelines on how to proceed so far.
So I'll just add the following on a few topics.

Clear coat between each colors:
I used to do it all the time. With a good sandown after each clearcoat. And I remove probably 80% of the thickness of the coat by sanding. More labor for sure. But I have setup a small well ventilated paint boot in my garage so it helps. I do some eye dropping on sunken inserts at first and it I found that that was never perfect and if not filled right would still have some low spots at times or ridges on the od of the insert. Plus, there are always other low spots left and right on the PF. Especially if the original artwork is quite bad. Spots down to the wood are lower then the surrounding paint and that's a pretty large low spot to try and fill with eyedropper. So these multiple coats of clear with flat sanding in between (I wetsand by hand using a drywall hand sander) gradually flatten out all that surface. Never flat after the first coat, but gets better and better after each application and sanding. So far my playfields turned out very good and perfectly flat.

Note that I started this paragraph with "used to". Well, I still kinda do the same thing. The only difference is that I now learned to gauge how many of those coats I'm going to need to get my PF nice and flat. I'm also better at drop filling the inserts without leaving gaps or ridges behind while not overfilling them (and having to wait days for them to dry). So when I judge that I can, I will do two or three colors before clearing. Just to save time.
I never had that 3D effect mentioned but that's because I stand down so much of the coat I just put down everytime. I end up with very thin coats. I am aware of that potential 3d effect and keep an eye out for it though.

Painting to the edge or not:
I'm good enough with an Xacto that I usually cut frisket right to the edge of the color I and painting. Or maybe overlap by a tiny almost unperceivable amount. Your PF has a lot of straight lines. So use a steel ruler to cut. Try it that way, you'll see it's not that hard to be that p re precise. Good music with a nice cool glass of beer and off you go. You just need patience.

Text:
I tried water slides. Didn't like them at all. So I have so far been using two methods: cutting masks (aka stencils) on a silhouette cutter and airbrushing paint or dry rub transfers. Both yield great results.
Stencils are a lot of work but allows you to do any color of text.
Dry rub ons is less work, more expensive and you are generally limited to white or black text. You can do colors but you are then into more money and issues in trying to get the exact color match. Other problem with dry rub ins is that they are thick. Forcing quite a few coats of clear to flatten everything out in the end.

Still not sure which method I like best.

Keylining:
Key lines around inserts are dealt he with just like text. Stencils or dry rub ons. Since circles are a little harder to cut, I will be less careful when masking the color around the insert and cut it roughly thus letting the new color cover the insert's old keyline as sethbenjamin suggested. The new keyline will trap the color when you apply it.

For straight keylines, I do them by hand using Molotow's One4all acrylic paint marker #127HS (google it). Its a 1mm nib. I buy a few spare nibs as they work better when new. These pens work great. I use a staight edge as a guide.
On my last repaint, I added straight 1/32" wide lines to my dryrubon transfer order sheet. Didn't cost anything more and used them to do most straight keylines. Had a few curved lines added in there.
It generally worked, but the jury is still out as if I really found that better than the paint pen.
For random curved keylines, unless it's just a small touch up on part of a line, I will mask it with frisket and spray paint. A bit labor intensive, but I haven't found any miracle way of doing otherwise.

That's it.
Enjoy your restoration.

#6956 59 days ago
Quoted from Fred736:

Well, I'm a little late in the game here and you've received pretty good guidelines on how to proceed so far.
So I'll just add the following on a few topics.
.......enjoy your restoration.

Great summary. Would you mind mentioning your actual paint process? What kind of paint and or gun you use (thinking of the artwork, not the clearing process).

#6957 59 days ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

Great summary. Would you mind mentioning your actual paint process? What kind of paint and or gun you use (thinking of the artwork, not the clearing process).

Paints:
I use Createx's Airbrush line of paint and try to stick to Opaque colors only. I would use transparent or semi transparent but just when mixed in with an opaque color. And keep it to a minimum. Sadly Createx's Autoair line of colors are all transparent or semi transparent. That's too bad cuz they have a more colors. Autoair can be mixed with Airbrush so can use them with an opaque Airbrush color when mixing.

Airbrush:
I have a few air brushes to spray my colors. I will use a simple Badger 200 the most. But thats just me being a little snobbish cuz I also have a $10 one from Princess Auto and it works fine and is a lot quicker to clean up than the Badger. In fact, the Princess auto one works a lot better when spraying white which is just a major PITA to spray. The titanium oxide pigments used to make white are really coarse compared to other pigments and that results in clogged nozzles all the time. It's so bad (in my experience anyway) that I tend to tell newcomers to airbrushing with Createx Airbrush colors to not try their hand with white first. Will just discourage you and want to make you throw your airbrush thru the window. Practice with black first. That one is easy.

I've learned 2 things from my early spraying days when my paint would peel off 50% of the time when pulling frisket:

1) Thin layers only. Very thin. Like, you-can-hardly-see-the-color-on-the-first-layer-when-you-spray-it thin. Don't become impatient and start spraying thick. I can have up to 10 thin coats before I get the correct coverage. Some might say I am overdoing this. Maybe. There might be happy medium with thicker coats. But it doesn't take me that much time to do it that way that I don't feel I want to spend time trying to find that optimum thickness. If I were living off restoring PFs, I probably would analyze that to death. But I'm not. It's just a hobby. So my recipe works. I'm sticking to it.

2) Heat cure between each layers. Nothing crazy. I use a hair dryer on high and blast the paint till its warm to the touch. I paint and blast and paint and blast etc so often that eventually on smaller areas, the wood gets nice and warm and keeps its heat so that heat curing takes less and less time.

Since I've been religiously adhering to the 2 above rules, I can peel frisket without worry and I mask over painted aread without fear of pulling up the paint.

A few other things that also help are: good cleaning with naphta prior to spraying, insuring the clearcoat you a are spraying over has a nice sanded surface (400 or 600 grit I'd say).

I had a similar discussion some time ago.
Have a look at the chain of posts starting with this one:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/130#post-4895614

There is a discussion about white base coats and also a few pics.

#6958 58 days ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

Great summary. Would you mind mentioning your actual paint process? What kind of paint and or gun you use (thinking of the artwork, not the clearing process).

In agreement with everything mentioned above , plus Paint will be smoother and have better adhesion if dilution is more generous than the 10 to 25 percent that createx suggests for their opaque line of colors. I will go to 50 percent dilution with 4011 reducer
And apply multiple layers with a fairly large tip size airbrush. Createx opaque can of course be sprayed out of the bottle , but you need a high psi ( at least 45 ) and good compressor.

#6959 58 days ago
Quoted from phototamer:

I will go to 50 percent dilution with 4011 reducer

I must admit I have never used dilution. Cant remember why. I kinda may recall reading or hearing something about losing adhesion. But you seem to say it will help it. Odd... I'll take it that this is what you have been doing and it works for you. I'll give it a try for sure.

Does that much dilution affect color and opacity of the paint?

#6960 58 days ago
Quoted from Fred736:

I must admit I have never used dilution. Cant remember why. I kinda may recall reading or hearing something about losing adhesion. But you seem to say it will help it. Odd... I'll take it that this is what you have been doing and it works for you. I'll give it a try for sure.
Does that much dilution affect color and opacity of the paint?

Color is unaffected but Obviously you need more layers to get to the final result , and your compressor can do it in lower psi. Adhesion is improved .
It is there in Createx latest data sheet .

https://creatextech.com/pdf/tds/Createx-Airbrush-Colors-TDS.pdf

#6961 58 days ago

Would a nylon dome camping tent work as a painting/clearing booth? I would be using it outdoors, either in my driveway or backyard. I'm talking about an old tent to only be used for this purpose.

#6962 58 days ago
Quoted from jaybird5619:

Would a nylon dome camping tent work as a painting/clearing booth? I would be using it outdoors, either in my driveway or backyard. I'm talking about an old tent to only be used for this purpose.

That sounds like a great idea actually. I would think you'd definitely want an exhaust fan hooked up to it and wear the proper safety gear . Tyvek jumper ,definitely a respirator. Great idea!

#6963 55 days ago

Are there different versions of the P21S carnuba wax? Mine says Concours-look.... is this the 100% carnuba wax version?

Thanks

20200518_191537 (resized).jpg
#6964 55 days ago
Quoted from jaybird5619:

Would a nylon dome camping tent work as a painting/clearing booth?

I tried something similar, bought a 10x10 canopy and leg weights, pvc'ed 2 sides to hold fans, then started to install plastic and that's when the wind came...

Figured it would have to be perfect weather for a significant time on multiple occasions that plan to work so then switched gears and made a 7x7 booth in my already cramped garage.

20200504_124604 (resized).jpg20200515_210054 (resized).jpg
#6965 55 days ago

Here is my setup.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/51#post-2760584

Just right for a PF.
A bit tight for a cabinet but it works.

#6966 55 days ago
Quoted from scampcamp:

Are there different versions of the P21S carnuba wax? Mine says Concours-look.... is this the 100% carnuba wax version?
Thanks
[quoted image]

theres 2.

blue can lid and silver can lid.

The blue is pretty good, goes on like butter! It has beeswax in it (not 100% carnauba) for ease of application but doesnt dry quite as hard as you would want.

The silver is the best (true 100% carnauba), goes on good, dries rock hard.

Both are super low in white dust if applied sparingly like you should.

When applying it should look like greasy fingerprints on glass.
Any more than that is a total waste of material.

Its a fallacy that you can build coats, each new coat melts off the old.

So, super thin coats for the best results.

2 weeks later
#6967 41 days ago

Barr993 -- What size PVC pipe? BTW, thanks for the pix. Looks exactly like the setup I'll eventually construct (seeing it may take me a while to get my hands on a respirator).

QUESTION: There's a 20 gal. compressor on CL for a very good price. I know VID says to go much bigger, but has anybody had luck clearing a PF with something this size? This is my first PF restore attempt, and I may or may not ever do this again ... so hate to make a big investment. It's 5hp, and according to what I could find online is rated 125 psi. I couldn't find anything about CFM.

#6968 40 days ago

Use 2k 2pac in a spray bomb.
Same finish.
No compressor, no gun to clean ,no clear hanging around. No reducer etc.
Its $22 a can and i usually use 3 cans.
Definately the way to go if you might only do one

#6969 38 days ago
Quoted from Fred736:

Keylining:
Key lines around inserts are dealt he with just like text. Stencils or dry rub ons. Since circles are a little harder to cut, I will be less careful when masking the color around the insert and cut it roughly thus letting the new color cover the insert's old keyline as sethbenjamin suggested. The new keyline will trap the color when you apply it.

Fred736: Thanks for the great advice. Unfortunately, I can't get going on my project until I can buy a respirator ... talk about bad timing!

I'm freaking over key lines. QUESTION: Where you have two colors separated by a key line, do you butt the two colors together and key line over where they touch, or do you leave a small gap and key line over that?

#6971 38 days ago
Quoted from jaybird5619:

Fred736: Thanks for the great advice. Unfortunately, I can't get going on my project until I can buy a respirator ... talk about bad timing!
I'm freaking over key lines. QUESTION: Where you have two colors separated by a key line, do you butt the two colors together and key line over where they touch, or do you leave a small gap and key line over that?

I butt the colors up.
If they overlap its ok too.

I apply the keylines at the end.

the clearcoat covers it all up anyways.

#6972 37 days ago
Quoted from jaybird5619:

Fred736: Thanks for the great advice. Unfortunately, I can't get going on my project until I can buy a respirator ... talk about bad timing!
I'm freaking over key lines. QUESTION: Where you have two colors separated by a key line, do you butt the two colors together and key line over where they touch, or do you leave a small gap and key line over that?

Quoted from pinballinreno:

I butt the colors up.
If they overlap its ok too.
I apply the keylines at the end.
the clearcoat covers it all up anyways.

I have been having the same question in my mind. And this answer makes a lot of sense. I have been fiddling around with Vid's suggestion of using pinstripe tape for some of the straight keylines on my playfield, but frankly I've had some issues. Despite my best efforts, I can't seem to lay it as straight as needed, and even using a fresh Xacto blade, the joints appear pretty rough. I thought I'd do those, clear over them, then butt the colors to the side of the keyline, but my thoughts have gravitated more toward using a Silhouette to generate masks for the colors and the keylines. Thus, this answer makes sense - colors butt up along the keyline, then overlaid with the lines themselves. Luckily I'm an excellent procrastinator, so I keep getting more good information like this.

#6973 37 days ago
Quoted from jaybird5619:

Fred736: Thanks for the great advice. Unfortunately, I can't get going on my project until I can buy a respirator ... talk about bad timing!
I'm freaking over key lines. QUESTION: Where you have two colors separated by a key line, do you butt the two colors together and key line over where they touch, or do you leave a small gap and key line over that?

For straight keylines You can apply the key line with pinstripe and then use a ruler ( preferably hard plastic) and a xacto straight blade to bring everything absolutely straight and clean. You lay the ruler along the edge of the key line and with the xacto blade you carefully scrap along the ruler making the line perfect ( I use number 3 shortsighted glasses for this) . Of course the colored areas that the key line touches should preferably be under clear coat .
If not then clearcoating after the keylines And using frisket , you can do the colored areas .

#6974 36 days ago
Quoted from jaybird5619:

I'm freaking over key lines. QUESTION: Where you have two colors separated by a key line, do you butt the two colors together and key line over where they touch, or do you leave a small gap and key line over that?

Well both options are good. But id say the first one is better.
However, I would use that only in extreme cases where the keyline and adjacent colors are completely gone (basically down to the wood, large area) and there is no keline left on either side of the worn area that would allow you to interpolate the missing segment of keyline in between.
In most cases, there is enough keyline left that you can interpolate the missing bit. So what i do in those cases, is that i will butt my two colors right up against both edges of the keyline. With a straingt edge, a french curve or free hand. This may sound like a difficult thing to do but really, with a nice and sharp blade, a steel straight edge and good lighting it isnt difficult at all.
Whats the point some woukd say? Well, It saves me having to redo all those keylines. I just need to do touch up the missing bits after all colors are down. The few full repaints i did qhere in fact not full repaint really because I saved maybe 80% of the keylines!
The pic below shows a full repaint in progress. Only color left to paint is the red and the keylines.
If you look carefully, you will see mising segments of keylines here and there. They will be touched up last using a Molotow 1mm black paint pen.
The keylines around the inserts will be either rub-on decals or painted using stencils cut on a Silhouette cutter. In the latter cases, i definitely run the colors under the keyline. When i cut the frisket around the inserts for the color, i can do a rought cut. That's quicker and fairly easy to get right as the insert keylines are quite thick.

Hope this helps.

IMG_20160709_181405 (resized).jpg
#6975 36 days ago

First, a huge thanks to Vid and everyone who has contributed to this thread. Only recently started reading and it's really well done... plenty more left to read!

I am hoping someone can give some advice, reassurance mostly, before i start my first restore. I have 2 basic problems on the playfield. Some small cracking thats noticeable in lighter coloured areas and some paint lifting in a high traffic area.

If someone could tell me this sounds like the way to go i would appreciate it...

I am planning to (lightly) use the ME foam and 99% isopro on the areas showing cracking. Just a small test to see if its just cracked clearcoat and dirt and not going so far i remove paint. If it works i just prep these areas before laying down the first clear...

The other area where paint it lifting i am not so sure about. If i am not going to paint it or just a little grey touch up, should i just clear over the top after that? If i wasnt going to clear coat and just mylar i think it would take more paint when the mylar is removed down the road. I would like to do it once and do it right.. I would mylar after the clear coating is finished.

Thanks

Steve

20200606_183837 (resized).jpg20200606_190614 (resized).jpg
3 weeks later
#6976 12 days ago

Some advice please - even if it's "Don't even think about it - just clean, wax and play"

Working on a Jacks Open. Quarantine + working from home has led me to tearing things down for cleaning to a larger degree than I have with prior machines. Playfield is currently completely torn down. I cleaned the playfield with naphtha tonight and things are OK if not great. There are some swirls that I don't like but I can live with them. I prefer to let naphtha do what it can, mayyyyybe a little novus 2, and leave it at that. Magic eraser scares the crap out of me.

Unfortunately, the previous non adhesive pop bumper mylars were pretty dirty underneath and did a number on the paint around the bumpers:
IMG_7550 (resized).JPG
IMG_7551 (resized).JPG

There are a few other spots here and there similar to this:
IMG_7553 (resized).JPG

Worst to me since it was my fault - there's some damage from removing lane guides:
IMG_7555 (resized).JPG

I'd really like to do a little touch up paint on these defects. BUT - I live in an apartment. Easiest method for me would be touching up with a brush by hand. I know there are cheapo air brushes available at Harbor Freight, but I'm not even sure what I'd do for air. This would more or less be the only time I would need it so even the cheapest compressor seems a ridiculous expense. The real issue is that again - I live in an apartment. I have absolutely NO means of clearing over any touch up paint. It's a non starter.

So - do I have any options that won't end up being more trouble than their worth? Can you even use (I assume) some acrylic paint to cover little spots like this and not have it looks like crap if you're only able to wax over it when done? Well, the areas near the bumpers would be re-covered with mylar at least.

Or - is the smart answer just "Clean that thing up as best you can, wax/reassemble things and don't worry about it?

Edit : oh yeah. The inserts are also a bit sunk. Nothing horrible, and something I can live with, but similar related question:
IMG_7556 (resized).JPG
Is there any eye dropper method for filling in inserts like this that wouldn't be a disaster if you're unable to clear over the entire playfield afterwards?

#6977 12 days ago

Easily touch those spots up with a brush, 100%. You'd be able to paint each color on the side and the black in the middle.
Areas like that blue pop, get your god blue color mixed, brush a little, smear it with your finger fills in spots like that nice. Same with the red in the middle of a PF

#6978 12 days ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

Some advice please - even if it's "Don't even think about it - just clean, wax and play"
Working on a Jacks Open. Quarantine + working from home has led me to tearing things down for cleaning to a larger degree than I have with prior machines. Playfield is currently completely torn down. I cleaned the playfield with naphtha tonight and things are OK if not great. There are some swirls that I don't like but I can live with them. I prefer to let naphtha do what it can, mayyyyybe a little novus 2, and leave it at that. Magic eraser scares the crap out of me.
Unfortunately, the previous non adhesive pop bumper mylars were pretty dirty underneath and did a number on the paint around the bumpers:
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
There are a few other spots here and there similar to this:
[quoted image]
Worst to me since it was my fault - there's some damage from removing lane guides:
[quoted image]
I'd really like to do a little touch up paint on these defects. BUT - I live in an apartment. Easiest method for me would be touching up with a brush by hand. I know there are cheapo air brushes available at Harbor Freight, but I'm not even sure what I'd do for air. This would more or less be the only time I would need it so even the cheapest compressor seems a ridiculous expense. The real issue is that again - I live in an apartment. I have absolutely NO means of clearing over any touch up paint. It's a non starter.
So - do I have any options that won't end up being more trouble than their worth? Can you even use (I assume) some acrylic paint to cover little spots like this and not have it looks like crap if you're only able to wax over it when done? Well, the areas near the bumpers would be re-covered with mylar at least.
Or - is the smart answer just "Clean that thing up as best you can, wax/reassemble things and don't worry about it?
Edit : oh yeah. The inserts are also a bit sunk. Nothing horrible, and something I can live with, but similar related question:
[quoted image]
Is there any eye dropper method for filling in inserts like this that wouldn't be a disaster if you're unable to clear over the entire playfield afterwards?

Sunken inserts lead to edge wear and erratic ball play.

Id do the whole thing right.

Jacks open is a great game and deserves a total restore.

#6980 12 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Easily touch those spots up with a brush, 100%. You'd be able to paint each color on the side and the black in the middle.
Areas like that blue pop, get your god blue color mixed, brush a little, smear it with your finger fills in spots like that nice. Same with the red in the middle of a PF

Thanks - doesn't seem too hard or daunting. I know I'll likely not get a perfect match color wise due to inability and paints drying differently anyway, but I still want to proceed considering how small the spots are. I assume the smear with a finger technique would help a lot with blending as well.

Any recommendations on paint for an attempt like this? Read someone's post about a brand called Deco Art Americana, but really have no ideas myself.

edit - no idea if this will even be helpful, but my wife has a set of Pantone cards she uses for print work. Assuming I can get RGB/CMYK codes for close matches to the playfield, is there a way to order small amounts of custom colors? Or will I be limited to "go buy the closest blue/red/purple and try to lighten/darken as best you can."?

Quoted from pinballinreno:

Sunken inserts lead to edge wear and erratic ball play.
Id do the whole thing right.
Jacks open is a great game and deserves a total restore.

Agreed on all points, but again - I have no ability to clear a playfield. If my wife didn't kill me for trying to set up a paint tent in the middle of the apartment, the fumes or landlord surely would.

The more I've read about the eye dropper technique as well as the cost of the clear - I'm afraid the inserts are likely staying as is. I've certainly played on worse ones in the past.

#6981 12 days ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

The more I've read about the eye dropper technique as well as the cost of the clear - I'm afraid the inserts are likely staying as is.

If you can heat the insert from the bottom side with a heat gun or hair dryer The you can push the insert in place put something against it so it only goes up as far as needed. Then and a drop of epoxy. Be careful and low heat. To much heat could warp the insert.

#6982 12 days ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

Thanks - doesn't seem too hard or daunting. I know I'll likely not get a perfect match color wise due to inability and paints drying differently anyway, but I still want to proceed considering how small the spots are. I assume the smear with a finger technique would help a lot with blending as well.
Any recommendations on paint for an attempt like this? Read someone's post about a brand called Deco Art Americana, but really have no ideas myself.
edit - no idea if this will even be helpful, but my wife has a set of Pantone cards she uses for print work. Assuming I can get RGB/CMYK codes for close matches to the playfield, is there a way to order small amounts of custom colors? Or will I be limited to "go buy the closest blue/red/purple and try to lighten/darken as best you can."?

Agreed on all points, but again - I have no ability to clear a playfield. If my wife didn't kill me for trying to set up a paint tent in the middle of the apartment, the fumes or landlord surely would.
The more I've read about the eye dropper technique as well as the cost of the clear - I'm afraid the inserts are likely staying as is. I've certainly played on worse ones in the past.

Strip the PF.

Raise the inserts, do the touch ups.

Find a body shop to clear the PF.

#6983 12 days ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

Assuming I can get RGB/CMYK codes for close matches to the playfield, is there a way to order small amounts of custom colors? Or will I be limited to "go buy the closest blue/red/purple and try to lighten/darken as best you can."?

What I would do is start with a createx opaque set from wherever
amazon.com link »

Your standard colors can be mixed pretty well for a lot of area; but once you start getting in to the purple area it's a little tougher.
So starting with the basics and then adding in acrylic bottles for a closer match can help. Decoart Americana is a fine paint to use.

You can also take your matches to Michaels or whatever and try to match them as close as possible. Pick up a cool brush whilst you're there in the painting section, not crafting. Princton Liners are nice.

Maybe someone knows a good off the shelf purple for Gottliebs?

#6984 12 days ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

edit - no idea if this will even be helpful, but my wife has a set of Pantone cards she uses for print work

I use pantone cards as well. Sometimes you can get pretty close with them. Usually I find I need something that is between two colors. BUT the problem is that Pantone colors are for ink. When I've tried to buy matching paint, I've found that paint pigments won't reproduce the Pantone card colors. They will may get close though. If your paint shop employee has a good eye and a lot of experience, they may be able to tweak the result to get closer.

#6985 12 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

What I would do is start with a createx opaque set from wherever
amazon.com link ยป
Your standard colors can be mixed pretty well for a lot of area; but once you start getting in to the purple area it's a little tougher.
So starting with the basics and then adding in acrylic bottles for a closer match can help. Decoart Americana is a fine paint to use.
You can also take your matches to Michaels or whatever and try to match them as close as possible. Pick up a cool brush whilst you're there in the painting section, not crafting. Princton Liners are nice.
Maybe someone knows a good off the shelf purple for Gottliebs?

Forgive my ignorance. Are you saying pick up a set of the Createx primary colors and try to mix my own custom colors? Adding cheaper acrylics to hone in on what I'm looking for?

Quoted from DropTarget:

I use pantone cards as well. Sometimes you can get pretty close with them. Usually I find I need something that is between two colors. BUT the problem is that Pantone colors are for ink. When I've tried to buy matching paint, I've found that paint pigments won't reproduce the Pantone card colors. They will may get close though. If your paint shop employee has a good eye and a lot of experience, they may be able to tweak the result to get closer.

You post loaded as I was responding to TheLaw.

I was able to find really close matches to the blue and purple with the Pantone cards. And something a hair too light and a hair too dark for the red. Wasn't really thinking of going to a paint store to having things mixed since I literally need an ounce or less of each color. Just hoping to take the cards to a Michaels/Blicks/etc and find something as close as possible. Unless buying something like the Creatix and attempting to mix my own is the way to go.

#6986 11 days ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

Forgive my ignorance. Are you saying pick up a set of the Createx primary colors and try to mix my own custom colors? Adding cheaper acrylics to hone in on what I'm looking for?

Correct.
The acrylics are great, and come in way more colors. Sometimes you can get a spot on match. But I think Gottlieb the red & blue are easy with createx primaries.

#6987 11 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Correct.
The acrylics are great, and come in way more colors. Sometimes you can get a spot on match. But I think Gottlieb the red & blue are easy with createx primaries.

Well, Michael's was a bust. The in store selection was pretty lacking. There's a Blick nearby that I assume would have a lot more to choose from - will have to check it over the weekend. Wouldn't mind trying to mix my own with the createx, but I guess I'm a bit intimidated by not having a clue where to start / what to mix to get what I want.

#6988 11 days ago

Well the red on there is probably straight red primary, give it take a little yellow or white.

#6989 11 days ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Well the red on there is probably straight red primary, give it take a little yellow or white.

Buying the Createx primary set after all. Babbling about this project to (at) my wife and she mentions "Uhh, you know I took color theory classes and things like that in college, right?" She's great and actually enjoys the rare occasion when she can help me with pinball stuff. Anyway - she's exactly the kind of person that can start with a basic primary blue and know what to add to it to get it where you want it to be.

May very well be able to find a premix that's pretty close to what I need, but the added flexibility of mixing my own is too tempting. Thanks for all the advice - much appreciated.

#6990 11 days ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

Buying the Createx primary set after all. Babbling about this project to (at) my wife and she mentions "Uhh, you know I took color theory classes and things like that in college, right?" She's great and actually enjoys the rare occasion when she can help me with pinball stuff. Anyway - she's exactly the kind of person that can start with a basic primary blue and know what to add to it to get it where you want it to be.
May very well be able to find a premix that's pretty close to what I need, but the added flexibility of mixing my own is too tempting. Thanks for all the advice - much appreciated.

Let her mix the colors.
Women are much better at it.

Just mix on a 6" square of acetate or glass, right over the repair area.

#6991 10 days ago

Anyone know how to deal with flaking paint next to an insert? Can you just clear coat over the top or need to cut more away? Thanks.

20200703_103357 (resized).jpg
#6992 10 days ago
Quoted from CryptKeeperAUS:

Anyone know how to deal with flaking paint next to an insert? Can you just clear coat over the top or need to cut more away? Thanks.
[quoted image]

Put mylar over the area so it doesnt get worse.

Fix it during restoration.

During restoration, cut away loose paint, touch-up and clear over.

#6993 10 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Put mylar over the area so it doesnt get worse.
Fix it during restoration.
During restoration, cut away loose paint, touch-up and clear over.

Thankyou. I'm in the process of my first proper restore with this one. I will cut about a 1mm or so then. Paint touch up on the bare wood then clear. It's a small area so im hopeful to get away with careful fine brush as opposed to fine spraygun.

#6994 9 days ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

Some advice please - even if it's "Don't even think about it - just clean, wax and play"
Working on a Jacks Open. Quarantine + working from home has led me to tearing things down for cleaning to a larger degree than I have with prior machines. Playfield is currently completely torn down. I cleaned the playfield with naphtha tonight and things are OK if not great. There are some swirls that I don't like but I can live with them. I prefer to let naphtha do what it can, mayyyyybe a little novus 2, and leave it at that. Magic eraser scares the crap out of me.
Unfortunately, the previous non adhesive pop bumper mylars were pretty dirty underneath and did a number on the paint around the bumpers:
[quoted image]
[quoted image]
There are a few other spots here and there similar to this:
[quoted image]
Worst to me since it was my fault - there's some damage from removing lane guides:
[quoted image]
I'd really like to do a little touch up paint on these defects. BUT - I live in an apartment. Easiest method for me would be touching up with a brush by hand. I know there are cheapo air brushes available at Harbor Freight, but I'm not even sure what I'd do for air. This would more or less be the only time I would need it so even the cheapest compressor seems a ridiculous expense. The real issue is that again - I live in an apartment. I have absolutely NO means of clearing over any touch up paint. It's a non starter.
So - do I have any options that won't end up being more trouble than their worth? Can you even use (I assume) some acrylic paint to cover little spots like this and not have it looks like crap if you're only able to wax over it when done? Well, the areas near the bumpers would be re-covered with mylar at least.
Or - is the smart answer just "Clean that thing up as best you can, wax/reassemble things and don't worry about it?
Edit : oh yeah. The inserts are also a bit sunk. Nothing horrible, and something I can live with, but similar related question:
[quoted image]
Is there any eye dropper method for filling in inserts like this that wouldn't be a disaster if you're unable to clear over the entire playfield afterwards?

Easy touchups. Then perhaps install a playfield protector if theres one available.

#6995 9 days ago
Quoted from Beatnik-Filmstar:

Buying the Createx primary set after all. Babbling about this project to (at) my wife and she mentions "Uhh, you know I took color theory classes and things like that in college, right?" She's great and actually enjoys the rare occasion when she can help me with pinball stuff. Anyway - she's exactly the kind of person that can start with a basic primary blue and know what to add to it to get it where you want it to be.
May very well be able to find a premix that's pretty close to what I need, but the added flexibility of mixing my own is too tempting. Thanks for all the advice - much appreciated.

Most of these colors were a custom mix from the primary colors.

2DAC5887-5AC6-40E0-B23C-E97A6EB3F2DE (resized).jpeg
#6996 9 days ago
Quoted from CryptKeeperAUS:

Thankyou. I'm in the process of my first proper restore with this one. I will cut about a 1mm or so then. Paint touch up on the bare wood then clear. It's a small area so im hopeful to get away with careful fine brush as opposed to fine spraygun.

Painting directly on bare wood is not the best way to go. in your case since the area to be painted is very small , then most probably things will be ok. It would be better though , after you cut away flaking paint , to give the paint a stable base by first applying a "locking" layer of clear on all the playfield , block-wet sand , do your touch ups , and then reapply your final clear coat.
In this way the touch ups are permanently locked b2in the layers of clear.

#6997 9 days ago
Quoted from Silverstreak02:

Most of these colors were a custom mix from the primary colors.[quoted image]

Recognize the photo - have looked through your thread before a couple times. Looks great.

Stopped by Blicks yesterday and picked up the Createx opaque primary set and a few other things. Wife will be attempting the color matching this afternoon.

#6998 8 days ago
Quoted from Silverstreak02:

Most of these colors were a custom mix from the primary colors.[quoted image]

Looks good . Many colors can be made with those primary colors and white and black.

#6999 8 days ago
Quoted from phototamer:

Painting directly on bare wood is not the best way to go. in your case since the area to be painted is very small , then most probably things will be ok. It would be better though , after you cut away flaking paint , to give the paint a stable base by first applying a "locking" layer of clear on all the playfield , block-wet sand , do your touch ups , and then reapply your final clear coat.
In this way the touch ups are permanently locked b2in the layers of clear.

Thanks for the advice. I will do it the right way you have reccomended and learn. I have never clear coated before but this isnt an expensive collectable pin but a great way to lean and end up with a nicer looking pin for me and the kids to enjoy. Cheers.

#7000 7 days ago

Sorry for the dumb question but I have to ask, is dulling of the playfield area when using a magic eraser (melamine) normal or a sign you have almost removed the paintwork? I have been working on some areas to remove general marks and some cracking lines full of dirt in readiness for clear coating. Shellite did an OK job for a general clean but some areas have only responded to melamine and rubbing alcohol. Having read a few other forums I was cautions and expecting the paint to be removed after a few rubs but it is taking a lot more than that just to make an impact on my playfield but noticing the areas are dulling a bit. Color is still OK when wet with some isopropyl so I'm hopeful I have not ruined anything but unsure if I should keep going on these areas or not.
Thanks.

20200705_202723 (resized).jpg20200606_190614 (resized).jpg

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