Quoted from pinballinreno:Remove the mechs and harnesses.
They need to be inspected anyway.
Just take lots of pics.
Quoted from pinballinreno:Remove the mechs and harnesses.
They need to be inspected anyway.
Just take lots of pics.
Looking for advice with half tone dots,
I have a Road kings that im doing a complete ground up on. My Paragon PF is finally off the rotisserie so i can start the road kings.
This is the first game im going to attempt an PF art repair on.
Ive read through this thread many times but i am confused on the consensus woth how everyone is dealing with halftone dots.
My problem is there is alot of planking going on on this PF so there is large areas with colored halftones that ill have to deal with.
If the half tones were simply black dots i would go ahead with shooting the colors and decaling the dots on... but im not really sure how best to deal with colored half tones.
Ive seen people with smaller repair areas simply print a color decal, butnifnthat the solution i might aswell just do a a complete overlay.
Is there a technique to reproduce halftones with an airbrush? Or by hand with micro brushes ( im willing to put the time in) ?
Here some pics for clarification ( im more focused on the orange yellow dot blends)
20200127_220446 (resized).jpg20200127_220522 (resized).jpgYou could create that effect with an air brush but the purists would frown on it if it is not dots. It depends on if you are going to keep it or sell it at some point.
Quoted from PinballAir:You could create that effect with an air brush but the purists would frown on it if it is not dots. It depends on if you are going to keep it or sell it at some point.
Yeah it be easy to do a blend with the airbrush, im looking to have the dots... if not exactly, but good enough to fool a close inspection haha...
Im thinking something along the lines of a stencil, or using a silk screen, just wanted to quiz up the community for ideas if anyone has done something to recreate this without going the decal route... my google foo hasn't turned up any viable options
Quoted from StandsOnToes:Yeah it be easy to do a blend with the airbrush, im looking to have the dots... if not exactly, but good enough to fool a close inspection haha...
Im thinking something along the lines of a stencil, or using a silk screen, just wanted to quiz up the community for ideas if anyone has done something to recreate this without going the decal route... my google foo hasn't turned up any viable options
This guide has the instructions on how to do it.
Vid laid it out pretty clearly.
Quoted from StandsOnToes:My problem is there is alot of planking going on on this PF so there is large areas with colored halftones that ill have to deal with.
He prints them on waterslide decals. Below is part 1 of 7 he talks about the half tone process.
For a complete restore, I would paint the base color with Createx, lock that down with a layer of 2PAC, apply the half tone decals, apply lock down layer of 2 PAC over the decals (once set of course).
Im unsure what to do next....
do i sand them?
Do I not sand them?
Does applying clear, ‘clear’ them up again?
Maybe it's buried in this thread, but I couldn't find it by searching. What make/model of frisket was used for this guide? Or what have people used successfully?
Quoted from toasterman04:Does applying clear, ‘clear’ them up again?
It does. You actually want them to not be clear in the first place so the 2PAC can properly adhere.
Quoted from StandsOnToes:Looking for advice with half tone dots,
I have a Road kings that im doing a complete ground up on. My Paragon PF is finally off the rotisserie so i can start the road kings.
This is the first game im going to attempt an PF art repair on.
Ive read through this thread many times but i am confused on the consensus woth how everyone is dealing with halftone dots.
My problem is there is alot of planking going on on this PF so there is large areas with colored halftones that ill have to deal with.
If the half tones were simply black dots i would go ahead with shooting the colors and decaling the dots on... but im not really sure how best to deal with colored half tones.
Ive seen people with smaller repair areas simply print a color decal, butnifnthat the solution i might aswell just do a a complete overlay.
Is there a technique to reproduce halftones with an airbrush? Or by hand with micro brushes ( im willing to put the time in) ?
Here some pics for clarification ( im more focused on the orange yellow dot blends)[quoted image][quoted image]
Personally, I'd stay away from waterslides and I'd stick to airbrushing. See https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-this-week-9-17-18/page/35#post-4744197 for how Chris@HEP does it.
Quoted from lb1:Personally, I'd stay away from waterslides and I'd stick to airbrushing. See https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hep-this-week-9-17-18/page/35#post-4744197 for how Chris@HEP does it.
Like Chris says.
Its impossible to paint gradients.
But it is very possible to decal them.
The decal half tone system is very good.
Quoted from LeChuck:Maybe it's buried in this thread, but I couldn't find it by searching. What make/model of frisket was used for this guide? Or what have people used successfully?
This is what i have been using succesfully.
https://www.amazon.com/Original-Frisket-Masking-10-Inch-4-Yard/dp/B001F6J18K
Used it on a couple of complete PF repaint. Works fine.
Quoted from toasterman04:Im unsure what to do next....
do i sand them?
Do I not sand them?
Does applying clear, ‘clear’ them up again?
Seconding lb1's answer. Clearing will definitely "clear" them!
Quoted from pinballinreno:This guide has the instructions on how to do it.
Vid laid it out pretty clearly.
Yep read that, like i said i was wondering if there was other options to the decals...thanks
Quoted from pinballinreno:Like Chris says.
Its impossible to paint gradients.
But it is very possible to decal them.
The decal half tone system is very good.
I guess thats one way, but he didnt really recreate the halftones, he just lightly misted over them... might be a option....
Thanks for inputs so far..... like i said id rather stay away from decals since there would be ALOT of decaling to do (the wholePF is basically half tones )...
I guess im not really over concerned about doing that much decaling, but i am worried about getting color matching good enough... has anyone done areas like this where the half tones are two different colors? How do color decals stand up over the long run?
Quoted from StandsOnToes:Yep read that, like i said i was wondering if there was other options to the decals...thanks
I guess thats one way, but he didnt really recreate the halftones, he just lightly misted over them... might be a option....
Thanks for inputs so far..... like i said id rather stay away from decals since there would be ALOT of decaling to do (the wholePF is basically half tones )...
I guess im not really over concerned about doing that much decaling, but i am worried about getting color matching good enough... has anyone done areas like this where the half tones are two different colors? How do color decals stand up over the long run?
Doing half-tone using dots printed on a waterslide decal for a small area would work just fine. Based on your photos though, you're looking at doing some very large sections. That means a lot of printing, cutting, careful application. Large sections have to be cut into smaller pieces. Then you need to worry about not melting them when you apply the clear, or sanding through later on. If it was my playfield, I would focus on doing a good job matching color and airbrushing. This said, I'm personally not worried about keeping the original look and concerned about whether I can execute without messing up and having a decent looking result.
Quoted from toasterman04:Im unsure what to do next....
do i sand them?
Do I not sand them?
Does applying clear, ‘clear’ them up again?
Yes. They will be clear again AND the clear has something to stick to.
If you put some naptha on you could see them getting clear.
Quoted from toasterman04:Im unsure what to do next....
do i sand them?
Do I not sand them?
Does applying clear, ‘clear’ them up again?
Yes, you do sand them, and then you keep going up to wet sanding with 800, 1000, 2000. That will bring them back to a good shine, ready for clear coat if desired.
Quoted from AUKraut:Yes, you do sand them, and then you keep going up to wet sanding with 800, 1000, 2000. That will bring them back to a good shine, ready for clear coat if desired.
I would stop at 800.
You need good tooth in order to avoid ghosting later.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration#post-551279
Quoted from toasterman04:But when i sand it (120, 220, 400) it comes out quite ‘unclear’
Yes, i read that part. But then was worried installing them when looked so hazy. But i did anyway and am hoping for the best. Just finished and it will go back to the artist for the final art and clear! I cant wait
Quoted from toasterman04:... was worried installing them when looked so hazy.
They will not be hazy once clear coated. I have done a lot of playfields and I usually prep new inserts with 320-400 before installing them back into the playfield. You need a mechanical bond and if you use anything higher than 600 grit you are going to ask for problems.
Quoted from Tommy-dog:They will not be hazy once clear coated. I have done a lot of playfields and I usually prep new inserts with 320-400 before installing them back into the playfield. You need a mechanical bond and if you use anything higher than 600 grit you are going to ask for problems.
I think 550 is a good compromise.
I use that lightly before my initial first coat.
Gray 800 sponge blocked in straight lines for the next 3 coats before spraying.
Quoted from misterman:slightly raised inserts.
Vid discussed raised aka proud inserts starting on post # 7
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration#post-547752
Quoted from vid1900:There is a saying in pinball.
"NEVER remove Mylar unless you are clearcoating the playfield"
For now, wax the area and put a new patch of Mylar down.
Latter, you can take the playfield apart and do a proper repair.
It's time to poke some good natured fun at Vid...
Vid,
What you wrote is not a "saying". The following is taken from Wiki. A saying is any concisely written or spoken expression that is especially memorable because of its meaning or style." Additionally, this is also NOT an idiom, mantra, motto, quip, or witticism. What we have here is a "Maxim" A maxim is an instructional expression of a general principle.
Anyway, having said all that, I do have a comment on this matter. I have a Fire pin and decided to remove the mylar since it was peeling and basically just a mess. I removed the mylar using freeze spray- no problem. But getting the residual glue off is super hard. Still working on it!
Quoted from billsacto:It's time to poke some good natured fun at Vid...
Vid,
What you wrote is not a "saying". The following is taken from Wiki. A saying is any concisely written or spoken expression that is especially memorable because of its meaning or style." Additionally, this is also NOT an idiom, mantra, motto, quip, or witticism. What we have here is a "Maxim" A maxim is an instructional expression of a general principle.
Anyway, having said all that, I do have a comment on this matter. I have a Fire pin and decided to remove the mylar since it was peeling and basically just a mess. I removed the mylar using freeze spray- no problem. But getting the residual glue off is super hard. Still working on it!
rapid remover from rapid-tac
Is there rule if thumb for which color to lay down first while airbrushing with stencils on a complete playfield repaint. For example, should I paint whole area with white first then work my way to black last?
Generally, yes.
It is always easier to cover lighter colors with dark.
Occasionally, you might do a darker color first if it is a larger background and the details are a lighter color.
Quoted from gawlicd:Is there rule if thumb for which color to lay down first while airbrushing with stencils on a complete playfield repaint. For example, should I paint whole area with white first then work my way to black last?
You should do pure white last , as it tends to get dirty while you work on the rest of the colors. Also , If you are going to apply a light color , for example yellow , then applying a light coat of white before applying the yellow , will make the final color more consistent and vibrant.
Hi all, Is there any good substitute for isopropyl alcohol for cleaning a playfield? I'm nearly out and its next to impossible to find it in my area anymore.
Quoted from omnibuscortex:Hi all, Is there any good substitute for isopropyl alcohol for cleaning a playfield? I'm nearly out and its next to impossible to find it in my area anymore.
VPM Naptha at ace or home depot or lowes.
It works better and has no water in it.
It dries fast and clean
Quoted from pinballinreno:VPM Naptha at ace or home depot or lowes.
It works better and has no water in it.
It dries fast and clean
This thread turned me on to Naptha a while back and it works wonderful. I've used nothing since. I was just told that Naptha will clean and remove any protective wax. So when I clean a clear coated playfield with Naptha, I make sure to reapply the wax.
I've had enough issues with frisket leaving adhesive residue or even pulling up paint that I avoid working on multiple colors/areas which would require a lot of overlapping masking. I tend to work on the areas requiring the most of a given color first, then do a clear layer, then work on the next subset of colors/areas. Sometimes you can combine decals and painting in a given phase, provided you don't try to do a decal over paint that isn't clearcoated.
Basically every playfield has different needs, so I end up strategizing the order of operations differently on each project.
Quoted from gawlicd:Is there rule if thumb for which color to lay down first while airbrushing with stencils on a complete playfield repaint. For example, should I paint whole area with white first then work my way to black last?
I have had issues of lifting the paint with frisket but only when i did not do a lock down coat.
I imagine it depends on what you are using for touch up paint and how long it dries.
As an example, the touch up phase for my current project was at least 6 months.
Gives the paint plenty of time to bond between colors.
Quoted from PinballAir:I have had issues of lifting the paint with frisket but only when i did not do a lock down coat.
I imagine it depends on what you are using for touch up paint and how long it dries.
As an example, the touch up phase for my current project was at least 6 months.
Gives the paint plenty of time to bond between colors.
6 MONTHS??!!?? I can't wait 6 days..
I try to get touch-ups done first and set clear to dry while I restore the remaining machine but I can't find the disipline to wait that long. I remove masking tape while paint is still wet because I have a "problem" with patience. This restore was 3 1/2 weeks start to finish.
IMG_1400 (resized).JPGIMG_1384 (resized).JPGIMG_1427 (resized).JPGIMG_1604 (resized).JPGIMG_1654 (resized).JPGIMG_1657 (resized).JPG
Quoted from John_in_NC:This restore was 3 1/2 weeks start to finish.
Seriously? Impressive. My Royal Guard is going on 4~5 years. Dammit, I'm going to finish painting that cabinet this month!
It's a different ballgame when you are able to do projects full-time. Also a different ballgame when you're working for pay - have to find the right pace without sacrificing quality.
In my experience a lock down coat is not a step you can skip. It would be great to be able to do all the paint apps in one phase before tree he next coat of clear, but that often doesn't really work out. It can, but frisket adhesive residue problems got me to change my methods. Which sucks! Because it lengthens the process. The thing I hate most is sanding clear between coats.
I try to work one restoration at a time.
Its a hobby so it is in my spare time.
I am just entering year 2 of a restoration.
Year 1: touch ups and clear coating. I am now reassembling playfield.
That said, i am lucky, i have never had an issue with frisket glue transfer.
I recall doing a ton of airbrushing all at once, when redoing the scenery on my rifle game. I still didnt have frisket glue transfer.
I guess i have been very lucky.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:It's a different ballgame when you are able to do projects full-time.
I was off a week last month for vacation, which turned into stay-cation when the event we were suppose to go to was canceled. An ailing Lethal Weapon 3 was refurbished in less than 2 weeks flat including repair and painting the cabinet. Amazing what you can get done with a bit of extra free time.
I have a Playfield Protector from Germany for my Firepower.
There really wasn't much for detailed install directions. The pf is pretty much clear of everything that would be in the way.
Would I basically line in up with roll over switches & attach some posts to hold it down then take off top protective paper & install everything else?
To re attach the guide posts... do I mark where they should go through & make a cut & tap with hammer?
Thanks for your tips.
Quoted from scampcamp:I have a Playfield Protector from Germany for my Firepower.
There really wasn't much for detailed install directions. The pf is pretty much clear of everything that would be in the way.
Would I basically line in up with roll over switches & attach some posts to hold it down then take off top protective paper & install everything else?
To re attach the guide posts... do I mark where they should go through & make a cut & tap with hammer?
Thanks for your tips.
I just installed one on a Stargate and left the protective plastic on top while I repopulated the playfield to prevent scratches then pulled it off at the end. The protector was held in place on its own and didn't need to be anchored by posts.
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