Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

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#6701 4 years ago

Tommy-dog

Pinside member

Quoted from mark532011:
I don't see an easy way to put down a layer of clear and sand it smooth when there are dozens of "hills" - if I hammer them in, will they stay? I don't see any easy way to cut the top off without messing up the graphics around them.

Tap those high spots down. Use a red scuff pad and scuff up your playfield before laying down your base layer of 2PAC. Make sure you do not have any shinny spots on your playfield. The 2PAC (automotive clear coat) needs a good surface to adhere to.

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1

#6702 4 years ago

CCA

phototamer

Pinside member

Limassol

6y 49,800 557 3

Quoted from mark532011:
I am looking for ideas on my Target Pool. When I stripped the pf, I noticed almost every hole is bulged up, in some cases, splintered a bit. I don't see an easy way to put down a layer of clear and sand it smooth when there are dozens of "hills" - if I hammer them in, will they stay? I don't see any easy way to cut the top off without messing up the graphics around them.[quoted image][quoted image]

Hammer them in , they will stay down .
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/20#post-1802904

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#6703 4 years ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,206 70

Quoted from PinballAir:
You have it stripped and cleaned....
If it were me I would clear coat it.
It would not get any worse and would be ready to be restored should you or someone else decide to do it.

Cleared it this weekend, some ripples in the clear from the planking. Seriously considering some block sanding and hitting it with another can. Looks great and I rolled a ball across with no notable impact on travel or noise but my OCD is kicking hard. I should just leave it alone.

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#6704 4 years ago

TOM

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

9y 134K 15,503 31

Quoted from gdonovan:
Cleared it this weekend, some ripples in the clear from the planking. Seriously considering some block sanding and hitting it with another can. Looks great and I rolled a ball across with no notable impact on travel or noise but my OCD is kicking hard. I should just leave it alone.

Block sand it.

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#6705 4 years ago

???

PinballAir

Pinside member

11y 91,050 4,267 6

Go for it. Why not? A little
Sandpaper, naptha and a $22 Can of 2k.
You'll be happy you did.
Cliff

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#6706 4 years ago

JAB

Gott1978

Pinside member

4y 33,550 42 10

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Blow off any sanding dust and then clean out the insert and the surrounding area with Naphtha. Once you clean it with Naphtha, don't get any oily fingerprints or dust near the insert.
Put your respirator on and find a glass substrate to mix the 2PAC on. You can use an upside down pickle jar.
Using 2 different glass eyedroppers, drip the correct ratio of Clear & Hardener onto the mixing surface.
Remember not to get even a single drop of hardener into the can of clear, or the whole can of clear will become a cube of plastic in a month. This is why we use 2 different eye droppers.
Depending on how many inserts you have to fill, you need to mix up your clear, by counting drops. Each insert might need 12 drops of clear, so your ratio might be 10 drops clear : 5 drops hardener.
Use the fastest curing hardener you can for this. The faster it cures, the less chance of any outgassing from the insert (more on this latter).
Mix up the clear and then let it sit for 5 minutes to allow any bubbles to dissipate.
Draw the clear up into an eyedropper without creating any bubbles.
"Draw" around the edge of the insert with the clear, so as you fill it, the clear will climb to the very top edge.
Overfill the insert slightly, it will get sanded flush.
Suck out, or drag out any air bubbles with the eyedropper.
You can fill in the valley between the inserts and the playfield with this same technique.
[quoted image]
Once the 2PAC had hardened, you can then sand it flat with the rest of the playfield.

Can I use mineral spirits instead of naphtha?
Can I use plastic syringes instead of glass eyedroppers for the 2PAC?
Thanks.

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#6707 4 years ago

CCA

phototamer

Pinside member

Limassol

6y 49,800 557 3

Quoted from Gott1978:
Can I use mineral spirits instead of naphtha?
Can I use plastic syringes instead of glass eyedroppers for the 2PAC?
Thanks.

Plastic syringes are ok but you have better control with a glass or plastic eyedropper .
Naphtha is a proven and trusted medium to use on a playfield. I may be wrong but Mineral spirits may contain some percentage of water which is not desirable.

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#6708 4 years ago

TOM

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

9y 134K 15,503 31

Quoted from phototamer:
Plastic syringes are ok but you have better control with a glass or plastic eyedropper .
Naphtha is a proven and trusted medium to use on a playfield. I may be wrong but Mineral spirits may contain some percentage of water which is not desirable.

Mineral spirits or paint thinner dry more slowly. They might not be as clean as plain naptha.

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#6709 4 years ago

???

PinballAir

Pinside member

11y 91,050 4,267 6

I generally fill by using the drips from the stirring stick

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#6710 4 years ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,206 70

Quoted from PinballAir:
Go for it. Why not? A little
Sandpaper, naptha and a $22 Can of 2k.
You'll be happy you did.
Cliff

Filling the low spots in boss, filling them in.

20190630_145807_resized (resized).jpg

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1

#6711 4 years ago

???

PinballAir

Pinside member

11y 91,050 4,267 6

Shakin' the bush,boss.
Shakin' the bush.

It's all starts simply enough.
I will just clear it........
Before you know it , full blown restoration.
Better order you low tack brisket now.

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#6712 4 years ago

TOM

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

9y 134K 15,503 31

Quoted from PinballAir:
Shakin' the bush,boss.
Shakin' the bush.
It's all starts simply enough.
I will just clear it........
Before you know it , full blown restoration.
Better order you low tack brisket now.

Mmmmmm, brisket!

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#6713 4 years ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,206 70

Quoted from PinballAir:
Before you know it , full blown restoration.

Trust me, a distinct possibility. If it was winter that would be the case but this time of year I don't have the luxury.

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#6714 4 years ago

???

PinballAir

Pinside member

11y 91,050 4,267 6

Brisket. LOL.
Breeking spill chick

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#6715 4 years ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,206 70

Much better! Going to let it set overnight, lightly block sand it in the morning and shoot a final coat. Much better than the first can.

20190630_190424_resized (resized).jpg

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#6716 4 years ago

???

PinballAir

Pinside member

11y 91,050 4,267 6

Looks awesome.

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#6717 4 years ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,206 70

Quoted from PinballAir:
Looks awesome.

This morning after light sanding and final coat.

20190701_063956.jpg

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6

#6718 4 years ago

BOB

bssbllr

In Memoriam

Frankfort, NY

10y 75,050 1,730 1

Finally finished time to enjoy. Started as a deep cleaning on my DH but then went the extra, well worth it. The project ran about 4 months but since I’m retired with health issues I had the time. I dismantled everything and sanded bottom of playfield and added a couple coats of polycrylic. I restored the inside of cabinet as well. I ended up fixing eject holes and did some minor airbrush. I took it to my friends paint shop for some clear coats of 2 pac. I sanded buffed and waxed playfield to a glass finish. I cleaned and polished parts as good as possible with what I had. I did repair on plugs and pins on PCB for g.i.. I also added a drop target and am very pleased with that. I added cliffys and mirror blades. This DH looks about as good or better then the first day it rolled out. This is my only pin but I found myself enjoying the challenges and proud of myself of the final outcome.
DD999360-2734-436F-9DBC-20D11BF6A131 (resized).jpeg275E4AAA-98EC-4948-BC0A-0D23BCDCA10B (resized).jpeg6BF961BE-CA17-458D-86D7-CCFF5452E2DD (resized).jpegEC9D8985-BE2E-4AB2-B452-62731F34795B (resized).jpeg23C23DD4-2861-43F9-90C8-67E72F1ECECF (resized).jpeg

CA8EBD25-514B-435F-92CB-1F55E467E5DF (resized).jpeg

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#6719 4 years ago

MSC

D-Gottlieb

Pinside member

8y 55,800 1,986

Volley is now depopulated. A few minor touchups, key lines, insert leveling, then shoot.

MVIMG_20190630_160309.jpg

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#6720 4 years ago

???

PinballAir

Pinside member

11y 91,050 4,267 6

That's in nice shape.
It is a nice playfield to start with.

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2

#6721 4 years ago

MSC

D-Gottlieb

Pinside member

8y 55,800 1,986

I finished the clear! Here is a YouTube of the result.

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#6722 4 years ago

???

PinballAir

Pinside member

11y 91,050 4,267 6

Looks sweet!

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#6723 4 years ago

CCA

phototamer

Pinside member

Limassol

6y 49,800 557 3

Quoted from D-Gottlieb:
I finished the clear! Here is a YouTube of the result.

Really fine !

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3

#6724 4 years ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,206 70

Just a little improvement! Making progress again..

20190505_165523 (resized).jpg

20190715_200021 (resized).jpg

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1

#6725 4 years ago

???

PinballAir

Pinside member

11y 91,050 4,267 6

That's a huge difference.
That will keep it from deteriorating any further no matter how many games you play.

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#6726 4 years ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,206 70

Quoted from PinballAir:
That's a huge difference.
That will keep it from deteriorating any further no matter how many games you play.

Yup. The clearcoat looks great, I had to take the picture at the angle that I did because the shop lights were blinding off it.. even with half the lights off. I have some insert backsides to clean, finish flipper assembly, double check all contacts and install new bulbs and I'm done with the playfield.

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#6727 4 years ago

???

EaglePin

Pinside+ Frequent

Downers Grove, IL

5y 109K 3,179 6

I have a chip in a playfield (art and clear lifted together near a narrow post) and was just told to glue it down using cyanoacrylate fast glue (I Googled that and I guess it’s just super glue), fill in holes in the clear with the glue, and polish it. But I don’t know what material and technique should be done for the polishing. Anyone have advice? I’d like to repair it as best I can to prevent it from recurring or getting worse (and hopefully have the repair look decent too). Here’s a picture.

9971FDE8-8EA9-40B7-9866-F27CDA2D2C8F (resized).jpeg

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3

#6728 4 years ago

BLT

wolffcub

WhiteWolf

5y 77,800 1,425

Be warned that you can have fuming damage at time when using super glue. This causes a white haze to form around the glued area. make sure you keep moving air on it as it cures so it will not damage any adjacent areas.

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#6729 4 years ago

MSC

D-Gottlieb

Pinside member

8y 55,800 1,986

So, what is the consensus of how long to let the clear coat set before playing? I am thinking 30 days.

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#6730 4 years ago

WOT

Atari_Daze

Spd

Houston, TX

7y 141K 10,052 7

Quoted from D-Gottlieb:
So, what is the consensus of how long to let the clear coat set before playing? I am thinking 30 days.

30ish days is how long I typically wait based on this:

OP
Quoted from vid1900:
Really depends on what brand clear you use.

Some softer clears, like the ones CPR uses takes months to completely cure.

The Diamondplate or JC660 that I usually use is hard in less than 30 minutes, but the highest shine takes about 3 weeks of cure before it will totally buff out. So I usually just shelve the playfield for a month and then buff.

In a pinch, I've used an IR lamp to speed curing up, but I'm always worried that the IR might one day raise an insert or something (you know how unpredictable wood is).

I try to save enough project to do during the cure.

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#6731 4 years ago

MSC

D-Gottlieb

Pinside member

8y 55,800 1,986

Yeah, after three weeks I can still feel resistance with a thumbnail.

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#6732 4 years ago

TOM

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

9y 134K 15,503 31

Quoted from D-Gottlieb:
So, what is the consensus of how long to let the clear coat set before playing? I am thinking 30 days.

3 months is what ron kruzman recommends.

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#6733 4 years ago

MSC

D-Gottlieb

Pinside member

8y 55,800 1,986

Quoted from pinballinreno:
3 months is what ron kruzman recommends.

No doubt the longer the better.

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#6734 4 years ago

TOM

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

9y 134K 15,503 31

Quoted from EaglePin:
I have a chip in a playfield (art and clear lifted together near a narrow post) and was just told to glue it down using cyanoacrylate fast glue (I Googled that and I guess it’s just super glue), fill in holes in the clear with the glue, and polish it. But I don’t know what material and technique should be done for the polishing. Anyone have advice? I’d like to repair it as best I can to prevent it from recurring or getting worse (and hopefully have the repair look decent too). Here’s a picture.[quoted image]

Press the ca glued chip down with a teflon block and a clamp.

Make sure it's absolutely perfect.
Use medium cure glue.

Dont flood it with glue use only enough to make the repair work.

Carl goldberg medium cure ca glue.

Wait for it to dry.

Sand with 1000 or 1500 grit and polish it up.

If you lost the chip, you have more troubles.

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#6735 4 years ago

???

EaglePin

Pinside+ Frequent

Downers Grove, IL

5y 109K 3,179 6

Quoted from pinballinreno:
Press the ca glued chip down with a teflon block and a clamp.
Make sure it's absolutely perfect.
Use medium cure glue.
Dont flood it with glue use only enough to make the repair work.
Carl goldberg medium cure ca glue.
Wait for it to dry.
Sand with 1000 or 1500 grit and polish it up.
If you lost the chip, you have more troubles.

Awesome! Thank you!!!

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#6736 4 years ago

TKM

Daditude

Pinside Moderator

Rockwall, TX

5y 266K 10,114 23 271

Quoted from pinballinreno:
3 months is what ron kruzman recommends.

He would certainly know.

That has to be torture waiting 3 months though!!

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#6737 4 years ago

BOB

bssbllr

In Memoriam

Frankfort, NY

10y 75,050 1,730 1

Not sure about timing too. The body shops use the same clear coat but the cars don’t sit there for 30-90 days. They are painted and handed over to the customer. I do believe they tell the customer not to wash it for sometime but not sure.

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#6738 4 years ago

WOT

Atari_Daze

Spd

Houston, TX

7y 141K 10,052 7

Quoted from bssbllr:
The body shops use the same clear coat but the cars don’t sit there for 30-90 days. They are painted and handed over to the customer. I do believe they tell the customer not to wash it for sometime but not sure.

If I recall, the last time we had body work done, it was 30 before a hand wash and 90 days before a mechanical wash.

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#6739 4 years ago

MSC

D-Gottlieb

Pinside member

8y 55,800 1,986

I recall that hand wash was OK immediately and to wait 30 days for wax. Obviously, the longer the better.

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1

#6740 4 years ago

CCA

phototamer

Pinside member

Limassol

6y 49,800 557 3

Quoted from bssbllr:
Not sure about timing too. The body shops use the same clear coat but the cars don’t sit there for 30-90 days. They are painted and handed over to the customer. I do believe they tell the customer not to wash it for sometime but not sure.

The coat on car is very thin , unlike the thick coat we apply on a playfield. Maybe this the reason that the clearcoat on a playfield takes longer to cure completely.

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1

#6741 4 years ago

MDS

Wmsfan-GAP

Pinside+ Frequent

14y 122K 1,702 1

Quoted from bssbllr:
Not sure about timing too. The body shops use the same clear coat but the cars don’t sit there for 30-90 days. They are painted and handed over to the customer. I do believe they tell the customer not to wash it for sometime but not sure.

There are different types of clear. Some take longer than others to harden/cure. Also mentioned above, the thickness of the clear can impact the length of time it takes.

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#6742 4 years ago

BSK

Bryan_Kelly

Pinside+ Frequent

Lakeville, MN

12y 135K 8,482 8 1

Quoted from bssbllr:
Not sure about timing too. The body shops use the same clear coat but the cars don’t sit there for 30-90 days. They are painted and handed over to the customer. I do believe they tell the customer not to wash it for sometime but not sure.

Most body shops have heaters in their spray booths where they can bake the cars after they've been cleared. This allows them to be buffed the same day they're cleared.

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#6743 4 years ago

CCA

phototamer

Pinside member

Limassol

6y 49,800 557 3

Quoted from " global finishing solutions " " ....paint booth must be a minimum of 55 degrees Fahrenheit for automotive paint with a catalyst to dry. For paint booths with an air heater, the rule of thumb in the automotive industry is that for every 15 degrees above 70 degrees, a coating will cure about twice as fast (assuming 50 percent relative humidity). Likewise, for every 15 degrees below 70 degrees, a coating will take about twice as long to cure...." also from personal experience the thicker the coat the longer it takes to cure .

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1

#6744 4 years ago

TDG

Tommy-dog

Pinside member

6y 59,600 985

Quoted from bssbllr:
... I do believe they tell the customer not to wash it for sometime but not sure.

Ok to wash but no wax for at least 30 days.

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#6745 4 years ago

???

PinballAir

Pinside member

11y 91,050 4,267 6

Also, in an auto body application the surface would be uniform before clear is applied. It is all the same material they are clearing.
So, die back over plastic inserts on a plywood field is less of an issue for them.

Post last edited 4 years ago.

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#6746 4 years ago

BOB

bssbllr

In Memoriam

Frankfort, NY

10y 75,050 1,730 1

Thanks for everyone’s input.

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#6747 4 years ago

JAB

Gott1978

Pinside member

4y 33,550 42 10

Quoted from phototamer:
Plastic syringes are ok but you have better control with a glass or plastic eyedropper .
Naphtha is a proven and trusted medium to use on a playfield. I may be wrong but Mineral spirits may contain some percentage of water which is not desirable.

Thanks for the recommendations. I used naphtha and glass eyedroppers with good success. The only problem I ran into is that my hand isn't as steady as it was a few decades ago. . .

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3

#6748 4 years ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,206 70

Felt like doing some paint tonight.

Matched the color yellow with what was there and filled in the areas that were worn down. After that was dry I hand lettered the missing letters with the finest brush I own. Very rewarding!

I have a few more touch ups to do and then I'm going to Mylar the area to protect it.

As an aside that was as clean as I could get the playfield. Tried Magic Eraser with naphtha and then stepped up to alcohol and finished with number two buffing compound.

20190830_194719_resized (resized).jpg

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#6749 4 years ago

TOM

pinballinreno

Computer Extreme

9y 134K 15,503 31

Quoted from gdonovan:
Felt like doing some paint tonight.
Matched the color yellow with what was there and filled in the areas that were worn down. After that was dry I hand lettered the missing letters with the finest brush I own. Very rewarding!
I have a few more touch ups to do and then I'm going to Mylar the area to protect it.
As an aside that was as clean as I could get the playfield. Tried Magic Eraser with naphtha and then stepped up to alcohol and finished with number two buffing compound.[quoted image]

Looks pretty good.

I'd worry about the cupped inserts a bit.

Probably should be cleared coming up.

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#6750 4 years ago

GTX

gdonovan

Pinside member

7y 185K 13,206 70

Quoted from pinballinreno:
Looks pretty good.
I'd worry about the cupped inserts a bit.
Probably should be cleared coming up.

Trust me I'm sorely tempted but just finished a 3 month marathon on another pin and wanted to give a Mylar section a go this time. I figure if the playfield is waxed before install it is easily reversible.

By vid1900

11 years ago

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