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(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 7,108 posts
  • 666 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by Atari_Daze
  • Topic is favorited by 1,631 Pinsiders
  • Topic is sticky in its sub-forum

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142 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 10 items. (Show topic index)

There are 7108 posts in this topic. You are on page 133 of 143.
#6601 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

It's a semi-transparent letter... it's not solid black. The light shines through it. I have no experience doing this.. why not waterslide? That's what OP suggests?

Light will shine thru it regardless. Worst case, you paint the other inserts as well.

Get an airbrush.

#6602 1 year ago

Appreciate the responses on my getaway. I’m currently reinstalling the rear ramp flap so I have the supercharger out. Might be a good time to freeze off the Mylar in the back and work forward. I’m in the middle of an F-14 restore too but looks like I should probably focus on the getaway since I have it apart now. I’ll grab a can of compressed air from work and try it this weekend. Will let you know how it goes.

Once the Mylar is gone, and I get the glue off with flour and alcohol, should I just wipe the play field down with Naptha and then re wax it?

#6603 1 year ago
Quoted from kcZ:

Get an airbrush.

https://www.harborfreight.com/quick-change-airbrush-kit-93506.html

10.99 - 20% coupon, $8.79 - I've worked on 6 machines with this one item.

#6604 1 year ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

https://www.harborfreight.com/quick-change-airbrush-kit-93506.html
10.99 - 20% coupon, $8.79 - I've worked on 6 machines with this one item.

You guys are killing me. So much work and stuff to buy just to replace one decal. I don't envision doing this much, if ever again. I read all about water decals and how those fix missing inserts, etc... why is that not a good solution?

What about the needle situation? Does anyone have input if a small veterinary 3ml needle for injecting my dog would have a large enough needle (I don't see where it says the size) to push out the SprayMax clear? It has the luer lock or whatever. I've used them for thick e-liquid THC and it was tough if the stuff was too thick but that was comprised of some solids/wax. I just don't want to break open the 2X and find out the needle is too small to push it through.

#6605 1 year ago
Quoted from Geteos:

... on the getaway.... Once the Mylar is gone, and I get the glue off with flour and alcohol, should I just wipe the play field down with Naptha and then re wax it?

You will not need flour and alcohol to remove the mylar glue on a Diamond Plate playfield. The naphtha will take it off. Just let the naphtha wet paper towel sit on the glue spot for a few minutes. It will just wipe off.

#6606 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

read all about water decals and how those fix missing inserts, etc... why is that not a good solution?

It is strongly suggested to clear coat your pf before and then after else your waterslide decal will simply wear and come off rather quickly.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/3#post-633777

Guess it depends if you are doing a restore or applying a band aid.

#6607 1 year ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

It is strongly suggested to clear coat your pf before and then after else your waterslide decal will simply wear and come off rather quickly.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/3#post-633777
Guess it depends if you are doing a restore or applying a band aid.

My plan, per the threads and key posts here, was to clear the insert missing the decal first. At the same time I'd inject and clamp the ghosting one. Then apply the waterslide decal. Then clear the entire playfield.

Is that correct?

#6608 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

My plan, per the threads and key posts here, was to clear the insert missing the decal first. At the same time I'd inject and clamp the ghosting one. Then apply the waterslide decal. Then clear the entire playfield.
Is that correct?

The best practice is to clear coat the entire playfield first, sand it flat to achieve an uniform flat surface so all your decals and/or touchups are on the same plane (layer). Your also sanding it flat to get a good surface to adhere to. Use 320-500 grit and a red scuff pad to get a good adherable surface. Do your repairs and then re-clear coat.

#6609 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

My plan, per the threads and key posts here, was to clear the insert missing the decal first. At the same time I'd inject and clamp the ghosting one. Then apply the waterslide decal. Then clear the entire playfield.

Is that correct?

Sounds like the gist of it!

I usually replace all the decals but I also tend to replace the inserts too.
Laser Ball with starburst type inserts.

If your inserts have WHITE lettering, water slides will not work unless you have a printer that can print white ink on the clear decal paper. Hence in my LB example inserts that were originally white are black or yellow.
For this reason you would have to use air brushing. I just chose to deviate from original, after all, I deviated by installing modern inserts.

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#6610 1 year ago

Thanks guys. I only have one missing decal and one ghosting. I don't really want to replace them all and they are just black lettering with a circle outline (CHAOS on JP). I sanded the playfield up to 800 grit so far, need to work on the shooter lane a bit with a rounded backer. So then I'll clear, sand, apply decals and clear again. Guess I should probably pickup another can of SprayMax.

I have one lifting insert (but the decal looks fine). It's lifted just enough that my fingernail catches it. Is that worth trying to lower with the hair dryer method?

1 week later
#6611 1 year ago

Airbrushing is a lot more than just buying a gun. I have yet to have success with one. There are a ton of variables (pressure, distance, viscosity,etc.). All I have ended up with is blobs and drips all over everything. Definitely not playfield quality (at least yet, I keep trying) but for a small one-off I would recommend decals unless you are using it as a gateway drug to frustration

#6612 1 year ago
Quoted from mark532011:

Airbrushing is a lot more than just buying a gun. I have yet to have success with one. There are a ton of variables (pressure, distance, viscosity,etc.). All I have ended up with is blobs and drips all over everything. Definitely not playfield quality (at least yet, I keep trying) but for a small one-off I would recommend decals unless you are using it as a gateway drug to frustration

Blobs and drips sounds like either your pressure is too low, a clog in your brush or paint which is not intended for airbrush work. It does take practice. A good airbrush, clean airbrush paint (I filter mine through a tiny doubled up scrap of cheesecloth when filling the brush cup), proper pressure (I find around 25psi with my dual action iwata and createx paint is a good setting) and a light touch on the trigger are key.

#6613 1 year ago
Quoted from mark532011:

Airbrushing is a lot more than just buying a gun. I have yet to have success with one. There are a ton of variables (pressure, distance, viscosity,etc.). All I have ended up with is blobs and drips all over everything. Definitely not playfield quality (at least yet, I keep trying) but for a small one-off I would recommend decals unless you are using it as a gateway drug to frustration

How are you thinning the paint before using it in the air brush?

#6614 1 year ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

How are you thinning the paint before using it in the air brush?

Createx was supposed to be airbrush ready, as far as I read. That is what I bought but I've yet to get an airbrush. I did touchups on my WOZ cabinet with paint brushes. It stands out a bit still because it isn't cleared yet.

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#6615 1 year ago
Quoted from mark532011:

All I have ended up with is blobs and drips all over everything.

Make sure your paint mixture is free of any chunks of junk. You might need to filter it. I always ran my paint through a paint strainer before loading it into the gun. Try setting your gun in the 18-30 psi range. I found that my Iwata gun sprayed better at a lower psi than my other guns that wanted a higher psi.

PRACTICE: Take a large piece of cardboard and practice your spraying. Adjust your psi to achieve a good spray pattern.

#6616 1 year ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

How are you thinning the paint before using it in the air brush?

Based on what others had said, I tried vehicle windshield washer fluid on my most recent project and it worked great. Just the standard cheap blue stuff not the RAINEX or other stuff with extra additives. I've found almost all of the Createx I get needs some degree of thinning. I don't mind, it makes it shoot great and goes further.
My current Motordome project took 7 custom mixes and standard white and black.
I tried one of the more expensive airbrushes and found it clogged up rather quickly so I switched to the low budget unit that provides almost no flow control or spray control, just basic mass color application.
Like tommy-dog just stated, practice make perfect, see the walls some of the pics in my paint room?

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#6617 1 year ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

Based on what others had said, I tried vehicle windshield washer fluid on my most recent project and it worked great.

I have always used isopropyl alcohol to reduce or thin out my mixture, if needed.

#6618 1 year ago

Needle size may come into play for the Createx opaque paints. I switched to a 0.5mm needle from the 0.3mm that my airbrush came with.

#6619 1 year ago

Another trick you can do without using an airbrush is to get a mini jet. These small HVLP spray guns are more adjustable than an airbrush and hold more paint. I use a Sata Mini-Jet but Harbor Freight sells a very cheap generic mini-jet spray gun that works good.

#6620 1 year ago

Dirty Harry getting a little love!!!

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#6621 1 year ago
Quoted from bssbllr:

Dirty Harry getting a little love!!!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Can you talk a bit about what you did there? Did you end up sanding the inside/bottom of the cabinet to get that result? Did you do anything after that? I am doing a JP right now and the cabinet interior is HORRIBLE but I didn't remove anything yet, just the playfield, and wasn't sure if I would but I guess now is that time.

#6622 1 year ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

is not intended for airbrush

I have sprayed exterior latex house paint thru my badger 155 on a game ( because it was a great match).
You can run most paints thru once you get the consistency down.

I too run from 20 to 30 psi.
I usually speed it up by using heat gun to dry it more quickly.
I have always used water to thin but am going to try alcohol and windex next time around.

#6623 1 year ago

Yeah I started with taking everything out And started with the bottom and used a orbital sander with some 220 , it helps to have the little mouse palm sander for the corners. I patched a gouge on the right side with Elmer’s wood putty, from the playfield , then sanded it all down with 220. I taped off the bottom and I used satin spray paint 2-3 coats to paint. I did the same thing, you keep getting deeper into the project but at some point you get to turn the other way. It does sound like the right time my playfield just got a second coat of 2pac so it’s out as well.

#6624 1 year ago

So, I've been tempted with the restore of my JP playfield (following the guides here, doing waterslide decals, paint touchups and clearing) to also clear my TOM playfield. I am restoring it using the decals which are sold (for the main illusion area and for a few inserts). Can I just lay down a coat of clear, add the decals and then add a few more coats over that? I am envisioning just like the waterslide decals.

#6625 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

So, I've been tempted with the restore of my JP playfield (following the guides here, doing waterslide decals, paint touchups and clearing) to also clear my TOM playfield. I am restoring it using the decals which are sold (for the main illusion area and for a few inserts). Can I just lay down a coat of clear, add the decals and then add a few more coats over that? I am envisioning just like the waterslide decals.

you should rough up the previous coat of clear , and then apply the decals.
After that a light coat of cleat to set the decals followed by another 1 or 2 heavier coats would do the trick.

#6626 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I am restoring it using the decals which are sold (for the main illusion area and for a few inserts). Can I just lay down a coat of clear, add the decals and then add a few more coats over that? I am envisioning just like the waterslide decals.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/8#post-955684

Quoted from phototamer:

you should rough up the previous coat of clear , and then apply the decals.

Quoted from vid1900:

6. Since you need to clear coat over the decals, sand the whole playfield down to 1000 grit so the next layer of clear has some "tooth" to adhere to. Since you can't sand the decals, you need to do this BEFORE you install them.

TIP: use the key posts to sort through this thread:

pasted_image (resized).png
#6627 1 year ago

wrong post

#6628 1 year ago
Quoted from phototamer:

you should rough up the previous coat of clear , and then apply the decals.
After that a light coat of cleat to set the decals followed by another 1 or 2 heavier coats would do the trick.

Thanks.

I was aware of what this thread had to say, but wasn't sure on the specifics of using these sticky labels versus waterslide. That's exactly how I did my waterslide.

#6629 1 year ago

So, according to the guide I found the "thin" waterslide paper. Well, on my JP this was not the correct choice. It left the inserts about half the thickness shallow of the waster paper. So now the two letters "C" and "S" in CHAOS are indented a bit. I thought 3 coats of clear would smooth it out a bit, it did not. When I sanded the edges of the raised portion around the lowered decal got sanded too much and I had to do additional touchups.

I am now considering spraying some clear in just those areas to let it build up a bit, then re-clearing the whole thing and sanding down again. I only sanded with 400/800. The rest of the playfield looks awesome.

On another note, the laser printing on the waterslide was not dark or consistent enough to match the other characters. So I ended up painting over the letters with black acrylic. It looks much better in terms of transparency and solid matching of the other letters but it has my "close" to the lines touchups which makes it look somewhat amateurish. If I was better I am sure I would cut out some vinyl to match the decal and airbrush the various areas but I don't have that kind of interest or investment.

So, I think I would have been much better off with the thicker waterslide paper. If you have any suggestions on this I'll hold off a bit to see if someone responds. I assume there is no clear filler that anyone can suggest. I really don't want to remove the decals and start over.

#6630 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

It looks much better in terms of transparency and solid matching of the other letters but it has my "close" to the lines touchups which makes it look somewhat amateurish. If I was better I am sure I would cut out some vinyl to match the decal and airbrush the various areas but I don't have that kind of interest or investment

doubling up on the water slides helps tremendously.

#6631 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

I thought 3 coats of clear would smooth it out a bit, it did not.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/19#post-1782151

To quote from the link provided: "Everyone has the idea in their head that each coat of clear "fills in" or "levels off" dips and depressions in the playfield, but that is not true at all."

Quoted from harryhoudini:

On another note, the laser printing on the waterslide was not dark or consistent enough to match the other characters.

Quoted from plankalkul:

doubling up on the water slides helps tremendously.

+1, I have even triple layered them. Else fill the void like a cupped insert:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/17#post-1717712

You'll get there, here is where patience and following those who have gone before you pays off!

#6632 1 year ago

What the F is 2Pac? He's dead! I can't find reference to this and I scrolled back in the posts and Vid just mentions it but can't find where he talks about what it is or where to get it. Amazon has no idea what 2Pac resin is.

Well... now that I'm at this stage not sure if I should add a 2nd water decal (it may be too thick at this point) or leave it as it is (I can add mylar over these later I suppose) or try to fill with "2pac". I guess another option is to remove the decals again and then start over with two. But that means I have to clear again under them, ugh.

#6634 1 year ago

OOOOOHhhh... so just 2 part auto clear, ok. Well, I'm using SprayMax so I'll have to bust open another can. When I tried to re-adhere the old decals (ghosting) I tried the needle injection method with the SprayMax and didn't get good results, so I just removed them and did the waterslide. Can I do the same with the SprayMax in sort of spraying it in to a cup and using an eyedropper to fill in the void? I assume it's the same process since, as far as I know, SprayMax is pretty much just like any other 2 part auto clear.

#6635 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Can I do the same with the SprayMax in sort of spraying it in to a cup and using an eyedropper to fill in the void?

Check the SprayMax2K topic. I'm not sure as I have only done it with 2 part auto clear.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-spraymax-2k-auto-clear-in-a-can-club

#6636 1 year ago
Quoted from Atari_Daze:

Check the SprayMax2K topic. I'm not sure as I have only done it with 2 part auto clear.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/the-spraymax-2k-auto-clear-in-a-can-club

Posted. TY

#6637 1 year ago

I am calling out for advice from my fellow Pinsiders.

I just bought a project White Water machine. I am an owner for less than a year with no previous experience restoring pinball machines, but an appetite to learn a lot. My plan is to make this one look and play good, but not a high end one.

there is a quite a few raised inserts where 'insert decals' are chipped (Due to coloured art I guess that it is silkscreened and clear coted) as illustrated on pictures. From what I read it makes the job a lot more difficult that there is coloured artwork. My Question is this:

1) First step must be levelling inserts and superglueing them from the back!?
2) Then what does 'Pinside' recommend:
A) Leave it and or install playfield protector?
B) Remove chipped decals and add new ones (If so, which ones)?
C) Repair what's left of decals with touch up paintjob and 2PAC as described by VID?
D) or...?

Any help is deeply appreciated, thank you.

Boat insert (resized).jpgInser damage #2 (resized).jpgInsert damage (resized).jpg
#6638 1 year ago

Just about done polishing. I went with 400/600/800 grit, Mazerna intensive polish, 3M swirl remover, Mazerna final polish II and then carnuba wax. I am still on the final polish, taking a bit to get out those fine scratches. It's really like glass... I also didn't wait 1 week, 2 weeks, 4 weeks to let this stuff cure (Spray Max). I don't see how that is really a thing when this stuff is used for auto repair and there is no way those cars sit for any length of time. I'd say, based on the time I put in, it was well worth it. I'd probably not have spent $1k on a playfield but a few hundred for a playfield and some labor seems worth it.

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#6640 1 year ago

AHHH success. What a chore polishing is, even with a powered polisher. I now remember why I have all of these car care products and never used them. Thanks for all the help and the great guide vid1900. Now I need to clear out all the holes and remove the light sockets (I forgot to cover them up, oh well). Then, on to wiring!

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#6641 1 year ago

I know, but let me elaborate:

First of all, is it a doable project for a newbie?

And second of all, if I move on which 'strategy would be the right one:

Quoted from Adams_Tales:

B) Remove chipped decals and add new ones (If so, which ones)?
C) Repair what's left of decals with touch up paintjob and 2PAC as described by VID?

#6642 1 year ago
Quoted from Adams_Tales:

I know, but let me elaborate:
First of all, is it a doable project for a newbie?
And second of all, if I move on which 'strategy would be the right one:

It's very doable.
It just takes time and patience.
This thread is all you need.
Start at the beginning and read it.

#6643 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Just about done polishing. I went with 400/600/800 grit, Mazerna intensive polish, 3M swirl remover, Mazerna final polish II and then carnuba wax. I am still on the final polish, taking a bit to get out those fine scratches. It's really like glass... I also didn't wait 1 week, 2 weeks, 4 weeks to let this stuff cure (Spray Max). I don't see how that is really a thing when this stuff is used for auto repair and there is no way those cars sit for any length of time. I'd say, based on the time I put in, it was well worth it. I'd probably not have spent $1k on a playfield but a few hundred for a playfield and some labor seems worth it.[quoted image]

The waiting period is due to die-back, installation halo's and ghosting problems.

Clear might look perfect but not be totally bonded to the surface.

If you didnt use an adhesion promoter, ghosting can be a real problem on the inserts.

Time will tell.
Inserts can cup later on.

This stuff doesnt always happen, but often enough that it's a problem.

#6644 1 year ago
Quoted from Adams_Tales:

I know, but let me elaborate:
First of all, is it a doable project for a newbie?
And second of all, if I move on which 'strategy would be the right one:

I did it, I'm a noob. If decals are available, I'd do that. I am doing it now on my TOM. IF not then you make your own or worse case airbrush them back on with stencils.

#6645 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

The waiting period is due to die-back, and ghosting problems.
If you didnt use an adhesion promoter, ghosting can be a real problem on the inserts.
Time will tell.
Inserts can cup later on.
This stuff doesnt always happen, but often enough that it's a problem.

Doh yeah, forgot the adhesion promoter. Hopefully they stick, I put a light coat of clear below them. Or maybe it's the clear to the insert that is the issue, they were sanded well. Guess we'll see.

#6646 1 year ago
Quoted from harryhoudini:

Doh yeah, forgot the adhesion promoter. Hopefully they stick, I put a light coat of clear below them. Or maybe it's the clear to the insert that is the issue, they were sanded well. Guess we'll see.

It doesnt always happen.
Tons of things are in play:

Ambient temperature

Surface temperature

humidity

Surface prep

Moisture in the wood and plastic

Gasses trapped in the clear after the surface skins over due to too fast of a hardener or reducer. I like the medium speed reducer.

Tons to go wrong lol, but Omni and PPG paints are pretty forgiving.

That's why Vid recommends them.

#6647 1 year ago

My car plastic bumper had to be re-painted at the body shop after a repair.

The paint cracked and lifted 2 years after the job was done.

They "forgot" to use the adhesion promoter.

7 years now after the second paint job, it's still perfectly bonded.

#6648 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

It doesnt always happen.
Tons of things are in play:
Ambient temperature
Surface temperature
humidity
Surface prep
Moisture in the wood and plastic
Gasses trapped in the clear after the surface skins over due to too fast of a hardener or reducer. I like the medium speed reducer.
Tons to go wrong lol, but Omni and PPG paints are pretty forgiving.
That's why Vid recommends them.

All of this plus....I strongly recommend led lighting under all inserts for the reduced heat factor. I've seen more ghosting of inserts on restored playfields more often with incandescent lights vs leds.

#6649 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

It's very doable.
It just takes time and patience.
This thread is all you need.
Start at the beginning and read it.

Ok, thanks, that comforts me. I will go for the full read of this thread then.

Quoted from harryhoudini:

I did it, I'm a noob. If decals are available, I'd do that. I am doing it now on my TOM. IF not then you make your own or worse case airbrush them back on with stencils.

Ok, thank you very much for the advice. Decals are available (see attached). Do they normally colormatch (Wet Willies)? And the missing colors on the artwork; yellow, white and light blue, would you airbrush those before or after applying decal?
Insert decals (resized).jpg

#6650 1 year ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

All of this plus....I strongly recommend led lighting under all inserts for the reduced heat factor. I've seen more ghosting of inserts on restored playfields more often with incandescent lights vs leds.

Good note, I go LEDs anyhow but good to know.

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