(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

6 years ago



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142 key posts have been marked in this topic, showing the first 20 (Show topic index)

There are 6813 posts in this topic. You are on page 121 of 137.
#6001 1 year ago

Any idea why this WSD cured like this? I’ve never had this problem before... (film didn’t “dissolve”)

E00A5FA5-AF37-426C-B6E5-0B76797EFC3E (resized).jpeg

#6002 1 year ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

What actual UPOL product numbers are hey?

20:80 bulk part and 20:31 hardener.

#6003 1 year ago
Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

What would I use to mist?

A small airbrush.

If you put the 2PAC on too heavy, the decal will melt into a blob.

You might even practice misting a few decals, before you do your playfield.

Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

Use the same PPG Shop Line JC661 clear for this misting as you mentioned in the ghosting steps?

Yep, that is really easy to use stuff!

#6004 1 year ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Any idea why this WSD cured like this? I’ve never had this problem before... (film didn’t “dissolve”)
[quoted image]

Maybe it was not stuck down too well to the insert?

#6005 1 year ago

Well it’s stuck down now for sure.

Going to dig it out and start over.

#6006 1 year ago

What’s the general consensus on wet sanding your final clear ? Best to stay away from water as it might raise the wood ?

#6007 1 year ago
Quoted from wolffcub:

What’s the general consensus on wet sanding your final clear ? Best to stay away from water as it might raise the wood ?

Wet sand away.

Your car gets wet with the same clearcoat, you don't worry that it's going to rust.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/27#post-1986492

#6008 1 year ago

Vid, if I wanted to hand paint a playfield that hasn't been cleared and be able to remove it down the line without too much effort/damage, is there any paint that fits the bill?

I figure if I manage to make a playfield protector for my game, it'd be nice to touch it up a bit first, but don't want anything I can't remove down the line

#6009 1 year ago
Quoted from zacaj:

Vid, if I wanted to hand paint a playfield that hasn't been cleared and be able to remove it down the line without too much effort/damage, is there any paint that fits the bill?

If you don't heat-set the Createx, it can be washed away from a sealed surface.

#6010 1 year ago

Something you can buy that works great for working on your playfield if you still have the underside populated.

Instead if using one time use cable ties or trying to electrical tape your flipper mech or sling mechs up, grab some of these Velcro ties, they are fantastic, long enough for anything. Work great

I have the all over the place under here

4FE2B7CB-7052-49FD-9D76-0FA37F8CF29C (resized).jpegimage (resized).jpg
#6011 1 year ago

I’m working on a flight 2000 playfield that has some touch ups that were previously done in divots. I also have a lot of holes and gouges from posts being tightened too much.
My question is should I Bondo all of these? If I leave the depressions, repaint the touch ups, and clear the playfield, will there be any ill effect?

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#6012 1 year ago
Quoted from chubtoad13:

I’m working on a flight 2000 playfield that has some touch ups that were previously done in divots. I also have a lot of holes and gouges from posts being tightened too much.
My question is should I Bondo all of these? If I leave the depressions, repaint the touch ups, and clear the playfield, will there be any ill effect?

If you are filling cupped inserts anyway, you can also fill any other holes and depressions with 2PAC at the same time.

Structural holes (like where outlane posts have been moved) can be quickly fixed with shish-k-bob skewers, and snipped of flush with diags. That way if you ever need to use those locations, they can be drilled out without all the chipping Bondo sometimes gives you.

Bondo is good for repairs that you are both repainting, and not planning on needing to drill through at a latter date.

#6013 1 year ago
Quoted from northerndude:

Something you can buy that works great for working on your playfield if you still have the underside populated.
Instead if using one time use cable ties or trying to electrical tape your flipper mech or sling mechs up, grab some of these Velcro ties, they are fantastic, long enough for anything. Work great
I have the all over the place under here
[quoted image][quoted image]

I just use a reel of the painted wire you use for gardening. Cut to length needed, wrap a couple times.. done. It's an endless supply of tie wraps

#6014 1 year ago

I cleaned my playfield with magic eraser and 99%alcohol. I’m pretty happy with the result.
It did leave a film in areas. I tried wiping it up before it dried and I tried naphtha with little effect. It does look great when wet with naphtha, but i would like to remove it if possible. Any suggestions?

You can see it a little in the orange and black

EA2B4E1D-04A4-4165-89B9-629595C5B2C3 (resized).jpeg

#6015 1 year ago
Quoted from chubtoad13:

It did leave a film in areas. I tried wiping it up before it dried and I tried naphtha

Keep using the naphtha, I just did the same on a Laser Ball, took about 4 or 5 wipedowns to remove all the haze.

#6016 1 year ago
Quoted from chubtoad13:

I cleaned my playfield with magic eraser and 99%alcohol. I’m pretty happy with the result.
It did leave a film in areas. I tried wiping it up before it dried and I tried naphtha with little effect. It does look great when wet with naphtha, but i would like to remove it if possible. Any suggestions?
You can see it a little in the orange and black
[quoted image]

Question for Vid: what is the haze described here? Some dirty, dissolved clear that was left behind during cleaning/removal? Alcohol + M.E. = no more original clearcoat (except what does not fully wipe up in the first passes), right?

#6017 1 year ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Question for Vid: what is the haze described here?

I have not seen the playfield in person, but I assume it's the MagicEraser debris

Maybe try a little alcohol on a cheese cloth and see if it can grab it.

#6018 1 year ago

I have a ball guide hole that I need to redrill on my Space Invaders playfield. I've already filled it with epoxy and drilled it once, thinking I was drilliing it straight in, only to find that the hole was at enough of an angle that I had to refill with epoxy and start over. How would go about making sure that my drill is held perpendicular to the playfield (which, I should add, is still otherwise fully populated and in the game)?

#6019 1 year ago
Quoted from jibmums:

I have a ball guide hole that I need to redrill on my Space Invaders playfield. I've already filled it with epoxy and drilled it once, thinking I was drilliing it straight in, only to find that the hole was at enough of an angle that I had to refill with epoxy and start over. How would go about making sure that my drill is held perpendicular to the playfield (which, I should add, is still otherwise fully populated and in the game)?

Maybe something like this:

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200710046_200710046?cm_mmc=Google-pla&utm_source=Google_PLA&utm_medium=Power%20Tools%20%3E%20Drills%20%2B%20Accessories&utm_campaign=Milescraft&utm_content=59279&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3ZfnnYW73QIVg7XACh1yyARPEAQYByABEgJ4DPD_BwE

#6020 1 year ago
Quoted from jibmums:

I have a ball guide hole that I need to redrill on my Space Invaders playfield. I've already filled it with epoxy and drilled it once, thinking I was drilliing it straight in, only to find that the hole was at enough of an angle that I had to refill with epoxy and start over. How would go about making sure that my drill is held perpendicular to the playfield (which, I should add, is still otherwise fully populated and in the game)?

The epoxy is softer than the wood, so the bit may follow the old hole, even if filled.

Maybe glue in a dowel or shish-k-bob skewer

You have a couple of possibilities if you need a totally perpendicular hole:

You can take a 1" thick block of aluminum or hardwood, and drill a hole with a drill press in it - now when you clamp this block to the playfield with your 12" C-clamp, it will keep the bit perfectly plumb.

Or you can use a drill guide:

shoppilllng (resized).jpg
#6022 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

The epoxy is softer than the wood, so the bit may follow the old hole, even if filled.
Maybe glue in a dowel or shish-k-bob skewer
You have a couple of possibilities if you need a totally perpendicular hole:
You can take a 1" thick block of aluminum or hardwood, and drill a hole with a drill press in it - now when you clamp this block to the playfield with your 12" C-clamp, it will keep the bit perfectly plumb.
Or you can use a drill guide:[quoted image]

Maybe a drill guide with an appropriate sized end mill.
Machine it out slowly instead of splitting and cracking your way through with a drill bit.

Just go slow and let the tool do its work.

#6023 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Just go slow and let the tool do its work.

That's what my wife said

#6024 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Maybe try a little alcohol on a cheese cloth and see if it can grab it.

Thanks again! I was able to remove all the magic eraser/alcohol haze by rubbing the playfield with alcohol, then using a clean cloth to “buff” the area before the alcohol dried. It looks great now.

Time to reinstall the inserts

#6026 1 year ago

I also have a set of 9" long drill bits. They make it easier to visually see if you are straight. Although the thin sizes flex if you are not careful with them...

#6027 1 year ago

Apologies in advance for the long post.

Background: I've clearcoated three playfields in my garage using Omni 161, but I've never been entirely happy with the results, due to the limitations of my equipment and environment. Plus, even though I take lots of precautions, I get nervous about having aggressive carcinogens leaking into my house from the garage and decided it's not worth the risk to my health. Plus, the one supplier in town who will sell me Omni 161 is a pain to work with and I don't want to deal with them.

About a year ago I bought a 1966 Williams Hot Line in decent shape, but with a little paint flaking on the playfield and now I think I want to touch it up and lock it down with a clearcoat, so I've been going to auto body shops in the area to see if they'll spray it for me. The first nine I visited refused to even entertain the idea of spraying something other than a car, but my local Maaco shop said "no problem." We talked a bit about it and there are a few questions and concerns:

1. They use Sherwin-Williams products rather than PPG, so is there a S/W analog to Omni 161 with the same properties that you'd recommend?

2. To prepare a car, they usually give the surface some tooth by sanding with a low-grit sandpaper and asked about doing that to the playfield. Is that necessary? Would a Magic Eraser scuff it up enough to let the clear stick without damaging the art?

3. Before clearcoating, they pre-treat cars with a cleaner that contains a bit of thinner. They're afraid it might thin and smear the artwork. Is that a danger for the original Williams printing or the Createx airbrush paints? What about waterslide decals? Would it be better to bring a can of naphtha and ask them to use that?

Thanks!

#6028 1 year ago

I would just prepare the surface of the playfield how you see fit, then bring it down to auto guys and have them just do the clear. Better than adding in new properties to the wood that they use on the surface of a car.

#6029 1 year ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

1. They use Sherwin-Williams products rather than PPG, so is there a S/W analog to Omni 161 with the same properties that you'd recommend?

I've never seen it.

Hopefully someone else here has some experience with it.

Quoted from TopMoose:

2. To prepare a car, they usually give the surface some tooth by sanding with a low-grit sandpaper and asked about doing that to the playfield. Is that necessary? Would a Magic Eraser scuff it up enough to let the clear stick without damaging the art?

I use 400 on clearcoated playfields, and 800 on older, rough ones.

If the paint is really flaky, sometimes you can't sand. You just hope the finish is rough enough to hold on. You just spray and pray.

Quoted from TopMoose:

3. Before clearcoating, they pre-treat cars with a cleaner that contains a bit of thinner. They're afraid it might thin and smear the artwork. Is that a danger for the original Williams printing or the Createx airbrush paints? What about waterslide decals? Would it be better to bring a can of naphtha and ask them to use that?

You'd have to find out what they are using.

I mean, Naphtha is a **thinner**.

Make up a test board, with some decals and some paint that you use - have then shoot it.

Better to mess up a piece of scrap than a valuable playfield.

#6030 1 year ago

I've had great luck so far with Dupont Chroma Clear if you guys have trouble finding PPG in your local vicinity. Runs about $110/quart with the added fast activator around my area.

#6031 1 year ago

Welle Auto sells PPG by mail, but you have to call the toll free number because they are not allowed to have a web checkout for it.

Last time I checked a gallon was $150 with your choice of activator, shipped free, no tax.

https://www.welleauto.com

#6032 1 year ago
Quoted from chubtoad13:

I cleaned my playfield with magic eraser and 99%alcohol. I’m pretty happy with the result.
It did leave a film in areas. I tried wiping it up before it dried and I tried naphtha with little effect. It does look great when wet with naphtha, but i would like to remove it if possible. Any suggestions?
You can see it a little in the orange and black
[quoted image]

Whenever using alcohol and ME wipe down with novus 2 right after

-1
#6033 1 year ago

Hello everyone newbie here,
I picked up a machine recently and it’s filthy. There is a brown residue (probably cigarette smoke) all over the machine. I have stripped most of the playfield and was wondering the best way to remove the brown residue. There seems to be a lot of different opinions on cleaning whether it’s with alcohol, novus, naptha, etc. I was just wondering if someone else had the same issue and had success with a particular product. Also any ideas of fixing the discoloration in the green paint would be great.

Thanks!

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#6034 1 year ago

Naphtha is probably your safest starting point.

#6035 1 year ago

That could be yellowed varnish or lacquer. I had something similar that was visible on the white areas of a Pinbot PF. ME and alcohol worked with some effort. You have to be careful not to take it down through the paint though.

#6036 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I've never seen it.
Hopefully someone else here has some experience with it.

Quoted from JodyG:

I've had great luck so far with Dupont Chroma Clear if you guys have trouble finding PPG in your local vicinity. Runs about $110/quart with the added fast activator around my area.

Here are Sherwin-Williams' options for clearcoats:

https://www.sherwin-automotive.com/fleet-refinishing/products-reference/premium-clearcoats/premium-clearcoats

I definitely don't want matte finish and I'm thinking that force-dry treatment involving high heat would be bad for the wood. Perhaps the best from these choices would be:

CC920 Speed Plus
https://www.sherwin-automotive.com/fleet-refinishing/products-reference/premium-clearcoats/premium-clearcoats/cc920-speed-plus-performance-clearcoat

CC930 Speed Plus
https://www.sherwin-automotive.com/fleet-refinishing/products-reference/premium-clearcoats/premium-clearcoats/cc930-speed-plus-performance-clearcoat

1100755 Elegance
https://www.sherwin-automotive.com/fleet-refinishing/products-reference/premium-clearcoats/premium-clearcoats/1100755-elegance-clearcoat

Some of these are described as "high solids" urethane clearcoat. Is that a good thing for playfield application? Any thoughts on these or other S-W clearcoat options?

#6037 1 year ago

High solids is good for building and leveling, probably what you want (hopefully someone here has used it and knows how durable it is)

#6038 1 year ago

I have been using SW Finish One for years and have had great results.

#6039 1 year ago

Do you typically install mylar around pop bumpers or any other high traffic area following clearcoating? Or is that personal taste? Started installation of my BK pop bumper and I know there was a large mylar circle from the factory around it. If I should install one, now is the time to do it.

#6040 1 year ago
Quoted from Lonzo:

I have been using SW Finish One for years and have had great results.

Doing some quick online research, it looks like Finish One is a 2PAC system. Do you use FC710 with FH611 fast hardener? The spec sheet says it air dries in 4 to 6 hours.

How many coats to you typically use?

How do you find it reacts with waterslide decals? (Omni161 will sometimes melt them right off.)

#6041 1 year ago
Quoted from TopMoose:

Doing some quick online research, it looks like Finish One is a 2PAC system. Do you use FC710 with FH611 fast hardener? The spec sheet says it air dries in 4 to 6 hours.
How many coats to you typically use?
How do you find it reacts with waterslide decals? (Omni161 will sometimes melt them right off.)

I use the medium hardner. I have used it with insert decal, vinyl and water slides and have never had an issue with any of them. I typically spray a mist coat and then wait 15 minutes. Then I spray a normal coat wait 15 minutes and then spray a final coat. I usually wait 24 hours to block sand. A lot of the clear is sanded off and then I work on the artwork/repairs and repeat the clear process. The number of times I have to clear depends on how in depth the damage was. Sometimes you can’t do everything at once. On the final clear I will do a light sanding after 24 hours and then let it sit for a couple of weeks to let the shrink back finish. Then I sand it out buff it.

#6042 1 year ago
Quoted from epeabs:

Do you typically install mylar around pop bumpers or any other high traffic area following clearcoating? Or is that personal taste? Started installation of my BK pop bumper and I know there was a large mylar circle from the factory around it. If I should install one, now is the time to do it.

I wax then install pop Mylar for route games (or games like Fireball where that upper nook above the pops always grinds through).

I put Mylar under ramp drops on all games, especially on SpaceShuttle where the balls fall from the right or TX Sector in front of the left ramp.

As long as you wax first, the Mylar easily comes up for replacement if it starts to look trashed.

If you see a heavy wear pattern in the original, it sure can't hurt to protect it on the restoration.

#6043 1 year ago

Thanks vid1900. That is what I thought around the pop bumper. I will probably do in front of the slingshots as well. I will wax good first in case I don't like it.

#6044 1 year ago
Quoted from epeabs:

Thanks vid1900. That is what I thought around the pop bumper. I will probably do in front of the slingshots as well. I will wax good first in case I don't like it.

Sure.

You can remove it any time, as long as you wax first.

Some guys install Mylar when they put their games out at Expo, lend them to a friend, or if they put them on route for a while.

#6045 1 year ago

Hey, I will have my PF all buffed up and shiny here in the next day or two.
Any timetable to wait before re-populating? I won’t be playing it for a long time yet, but should I wait to repopulate after my 2K clear application?

#6046 1 year ago
Quoted from northerndude:

Hey, I will have my PF all buffed up and shiny here in the next day or two.
Any timetable to wait before re-populating? I won’t be playing it for a long time yet, but should I wait to repopulate after my 2K clear application?

Put your snout up to it.

If it no longer smells, it's probably cured.

Every brand is different, but that's a good general rule.

#6047 1 year ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Put your snout up to it.
If it no longer smells, it's probably cured.
Every brand is different, but that's a good general rule.

Perfect, i've got a good sniffer on me!

If anyone watches Big Brother and saw the video thing on Angela's nose...... i'm the same way, lol

#6048 1 year ago

Sniff it when it's warm. I got duped by a cold playfield that didn't stink and had to perform a major salvage operation when my star posts under rubber tension wrinkled the clear.

#6049 1 year ago

after no smell comes out , give it another 1 or 2 weeks. Better safe than sorry

#6050 1 year ago

Say, Vid...

The restoration has begun on my Hot Line! But how does one remove these rollover buttons? It looks like it requires some sort of three-prong phillips-headed screwdriver.

20180922_111657_resized (resized).jpg

P.S. I've already bought replacement buttons that include screws for a standard flat screwdriver.

P.P.S. Sorry about the blurry photo.

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