(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

6 years ago



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#551 5 years ago

I'm assuming you are using Createx paint.

Bump your PSI to 45.

If it still won't go, add 10% water or Windex and try again.

=

#552 5 years ago

Thanks Vid will give it a go. So far all your recommendations have help me greatly in repairing the slam wear area of my NGG.

#553 5 years ago

The brush says maximum 30psi, and if I shoot water that thing sprays like a demon. As soon as I put the paint, I get lots of air and very little paint.

I do not airbrush playfields but when I build models I use 5-15 psi unless I am covering a very large areas then maybe 20 psi.

#554 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'm assuming you are using Createx paint.
Bump your PSI to 45.
If it still won't go, add 10% water or Windex and try again.
=

Have you ever tried invisible glass instead of windex to thin the paint? I've found it works just as good and doesn't tint the paint blue like windex.

-Jim

#555 5 years ago
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

Have you ever tried invisible glass instead of windex to thin the paint?

I've only used Windex in a pinch with off brand paint. Createx shoots straight from the bottle for me every time.

#556 5 years ago

Same here. Seems some colors are a bit thinner than others too.

#557 5 years ago

Yeah, I guess the airbrush I got from harbor freight is not up to par....maybe I'll get a better one next year . It did the job at 45PSI but I had to be careful and shot the paint from further away. Vid you transparent tray trick made my day. The yellow is matched at close to 98%. I think once the clear is on will be closer to 99%.

#558 5 years ago

can the non laminated decals from pps be cleared?

#559 5 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Yeah, I guess the airbrush I got from harbor freight is not up to par....maybe I'll get a better one next year . It did the job at 45PSI but I had to be careful and shot the paint from further away.

It's a $12 air brush, you can buy 26 of them for the price of a nice Iwata.

Remember that you can vary the depth of the button press along with the pull back of the button (dual action). You'll get the hang of it.

If you are used to junky rattle cans, you will be shocked at how well Createx white covers - they don't spare the pigment.

Congrats on getting it working!

#560 5 years ago

This is the brush I got. ebay.com link » Master Pro Dual Action Gravity Feed Airbrush Kit Set W 3 Tips Hobby Paint Craft

Works great. No thinning of Createx and has a nice feel.

#561 5 years ago
Quoted from Soapman:

This is the brush I got. ebay.com link ยป Master Pro Dual Action Gravity Feed Airbrush Kit Set W 3 Tips.

I like the gravity feed better than the bottle feed. It is a personal preference.

#562 5 years ago

wondering if I can sand the touch up a bit with 1000-1500 grit paper just to smooth out the finish a bit?

#563 5 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

wondering if I can sand the touch up a bit with 1000-1500 grit paper just to smooth out the finish a bit?

Sure you can.

You can knock down masked edges and of course, some sanding gives the clear coat something to "bite" into.

#564 5 years ago
Quoted from pinwillie:

Follow the playfield looms to the boards in backbox and disconnect there. I like to write the plug numbers(j113 for example) on the side of the plug with a fine tip sharpie and take a pic before removing. good luck

Quoted from MinnPin:

Thanks for the help on the paint you guys. I guess I will go buy some purple and start there.
As for the cables, I read some of what was said regarding removing them to remove the playfield, but here's what I did: I just marked each connector with a matching letter.
One connector gets a black sharpie "A" on it and the one that plugs into also gets an "A", then next, a "B" and so on.
If you want the letters gone later on, a little rubbing alcohol and the connectors are like new.
Good luck!
-MinnPin

I realize that the quoted comments are a bit old, but I prefer to use the identification cable ties to label the connectors so that when you're done you can snip them back off, keeping your connectors classy and free from marker.
stay_classy.jpg

http://www.harborfreight.com/100-piece-4-identification-cable-ties-69418.html
idenfication cable ties.jpg

#565 5 years ago

would a wagner power painter work for spraying a cabinet? how about the PF? Is there an alternatve to clearing the PF like brush on clear then sand?

#566 5 years ago
Quoted from SKILL_SHOT:

would a wagner power painter work for spraying a cabinet?

It might. How smoothly does it lay out paint on a wall?

Quoted from SKILL_SHOT:

Is there an alternatve to clearing the PF like brush on clear then sand?

You REALLY don't want to do that.

If you try to brush 2 part clear over decals, it melts them in a few seconds. The solvents are too "hot" when applied that thick.

Once you have seen how flat and mirror finish 2 part clear lays out when sprayed, you will never even dream about messing with a brush and sanding.

If no junk falls into the clear while drying (you clear playfields flat on their backs) many times you don't even have to buff.

#567 5 years ago

I would like to splurge on a nice air compressor but I got this thing for $150 but I still need one for an airbrush. After seeing that frisket I know I can repaint the whole PF detail since its not very complicated TY. So I knocked down all the flakey paint and its smooth to the touch now i need to seal it right? should I wipe it down with naptha first? spray clear sand, paint PF, clear. This is my 1st EM 3rd machine and 1st retoration. The playfield has been fully depopulated now just making a list of things I need to get
IMG_5523_zps6bf18af0.jpg

#568 5 years ago

oh! as you can se there are areas of bare wood how would you go about isolating those spots to sand and bring back the color frisket and a mini sand blaster? or cover the wooded areas, clear to give something for masking to hold to without removing more paint then remove the covering mask off the cleard section and mini sand it? I ask about the mini sand blaster since its another air tool to justify the compressor. dremmel and sanding pads?

#569 5 years ago
Quoted from SKILL_SHOT:

So I knocked down all the flakey paint and its smooth to the touch now i need to seal it right?

You will need to seal it so the frisket does not lift any of the paint.

Quoted from SKILL_SHOT:

should I wipe it down with naptha first?

Yes, that will help clean everything off - don't put your greasy fingerprints on the game once you've cleaned it.

Also get down inside the slots and holes - make sure no wax is hiding along the edges to mess up your work.

Quoted from SKILL_SHOT:

as you can se there are areas of bare wood how would you go about isolating those spots to sand and bring back the color frisket and a mini sand blaster?

That is a real skill matching bare wood with the darker old stuff.

If there is just a slight difference, sometimes polyurethane will add enough yellow.

Other times, you have to work with stains or pigments to blend in fresh sanded wood.

Finally, you have to seal the raw wood before you do the 2 part clear, otherwise you often see how porous the fresh wood is.

#570 5 years ago
Quoted from j_m_:

I realize that the quoted comments are a bit old, but I prefer to use the identification cable ties to label the connectors so that when you're done you can snip them back off, keeping your connectors classy and free from marker.

~ My comment regarding marking of connectors wasn't very long, so I must assume you read it. That being the case you would note how the sharpie wipes off completely with a rag and rubbing alcohol, leaving your connectors "classy and free from marker"...and free from identification cable ties. But, to each their own.

#571 5 years ago

I love this thread. Thanks Vid.

#572 5 years ago

Lots of talk but why no photo's Vid? Let's see the process.

#573 5 years ago
Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

Lots of talk but why no photo's Vid?

I'm working on the road right now.

Kinda hard to spray Isocyanate clear in my hotel room, lol.

#574 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Kinda hard to spray Isocyanate clear in my hotel room, lol.

CHICKEN!

#575 5 years ago

Well just a few knick-knacks left to do and this baby is going to clearcoating. Any final advice? BTW thanks VID this thread has been most helpful. Added a before and after shot. Lighting is not the greatest. The red is a tad off and for the life of me I couldn't get the pink to stay, it always seem to blend into the red no matter how long I waited after the paint dried. I had a bottle of fluorescent pink. I added a Smidge of red to it and still no pink. I'm still happy with the end result. This baby is not going anywhere once I am done.

before-after.jpg
#576 5 years ago

Hi vid,
I've fallen a bit behind on this thread. Glad to see it's still going strong!

I apologize if this has been covered somewhere before, but how do you deal with the ground in ball track on many older EM games at the top arch? I've never been able to satisfactorily remove or repair them due to the bare wood.
Can't really just fill and paint it.

#577 5 years ago

Damn good job flash!

#578 5 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

I had a bottle of fluorescent pink. I added a Smidge of red to it and still no pink.

Did you add regular red or fluorescent red?

#579 5 years ago

Vid great thread.
Quick question, after removing all of the items from the top of the payfield, there are raised mounds of wood where the wood screws were. I assume you try to push those back in before sanding? What tool do you use for this or do you just sand them off? this is on a modern playfield that I am just going to clear.
Thanks

#580 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Did you add regular red or fluorescent red?

Yeah I used the opaque red but when I mean a smidge, I mean like the tip of a tooth pick just to get a bit of red in the paint. When I shoot it on paper it still looked pink.....when I shoot it on the red, it blurs in....

#581 5 years ago
Quoted from sc204:

Quick question, after removing all of the items from the top of the payfield, there are raised mounds of wood where the wood screws were. I assume you try to push those back in before sanding?

A domed punch makes quick work of all the mounds.

You could also use the handle end of a nut driver, if it is not all chewed up.

doaming punch set.jpg
#582 5 years ago
Quoted from flashinstinct:

Yeah I used the opaque red but when I mean a smidge, I mean like the tip of a tooth pick just to get a bit of red in the paint. When I shoot it on paper it still looked pink.....when I shoot it on the red, it blurs in....

Florescent paints are translucent, so it looks like in your case you are going to need to prime with white first, then paint over with your fluorescent.

#583 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

A domed punch makes quick work of all the mounds.
You could also use the handle end of a nut driver, if it is not all chewed up.

doaming punch set.jpg 15 KB

Thank you, that is what I was looking for just didn't have a name. Couldn't find it under ball head, punch, round head punch etc
Unfortunately just went to the local well stocked tool and hardware store and they didn't have it. Guess I will have to find it on line.

Thanks for the quick response.

#584 5 years ago

how about a pinball instead?

#585 5 years ago

This is a great thread!

Robert

#586 5 years ago
Quoted from SKILL_SHOT:

how about a pinball instead?

Might work if there is a lot of space around what you need to level, but usually one needs a long narrow thing to hit.

Robert

#587 5 years ago
Quoted from sc204:

Couldn't find it under ball head, punch, round head punch etc
Unfortunately just went to the local well stocked tool and hardware store and they didn't have it. Guess I will have to find it on line.

If you want a really big set of them, Harbor Freight has them for $29 after coupon :

http://www.harborfreight.com/25-piece-doming-block-and-punch-set-93539.html

Sears stores have them.

Mechanic stores might have them as "Pilot Punch", used to drive pins.....

#588 5 years ago

Dang it.... now I'll need to buy this punch set. Thanks for the priming info Vid.

#589 5 years ago
Quoted from Drano:

Hi vid,
I've fallen a bit behind on this thread. Glad to see it's still going strong!
I apologize if this has been covered somewhere before, but how do you deal with the ground in ball track on many older EM games at the top arch? I've never been able to satisfactorily remove or repair them due to the bare wood.
Can't really just fill and paint it.

I would love to hear some tips concerning this also.

#590 5 years ago

So I had to remove and repair this insert on high speed-- not sure what happened to it but it looked like someone took a dremel to it. I had to sand it down quite a bit to be smooth again, but now it sits below the surface of the playfield. In the picture, it's not glued down, just sitting there.

My question is, will I be able to get it to sit flush when I put glue in?

image-375.jpg

#591 5 years ago
Quoted from Spraynard:

I had to sand it down quite a bit to be smooth again, but now it sits below the surface of the playfield. In the picture, it's not glued down, just sitting there.

How much did you sand off the face?

You want to be careful, because if you sand it thin, it will crack when a ball strikes it.

You can rough up the sides and glue it flush with epoxy, but if it is too thin, just replace it.

#592 5 years ago
Quoted from Drano:

I apologize if this has been covered somewhere before, but how do you deal with the ground in ball track on many older EM games at the top arch? I've never been able to satisfactorily remove or repair them due to the bare wood.
Can't really just fill and paint it.

There are a couple of ways to approach it.

If there is enough wood left to sand out the rut without sanding through the next layer of plywood, then you can work it out to the slightest slope.

The hardest part is getting the freshly sanded wood to match the old dark wood. You can experiment on the back of the playfield to find the right stains or even varnish to match the old wood's tone.

-

If there is deep wear through the next layer of ply then you can fill it with Bondo or auto clear.

Then you will have to mask off the surround area and paint all the way to some feature or border (spot painting will be too hard for most people to match).

Using a "dry" brush technique, grain the painted wood to match the rest of the playfield. If you are on the fence about how much graining to do, do less.

You can also get fancy and scan a section of good wood, then print water slide decals and place them over the Bondo-ed wood. Do this with a laser printer, because ink jet fades pretty fast. Again, make your wood decals go all the way to the borders or some feature like the pops. Little patches draw attention to themselves.

#593 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

How much did you sand off the face?
You want to be careful, because if you sand it thin, it will crack when a ball strikes it.
You can rough up the sides and glue it flush with epoxy, but if it is too thin, just replace it.

Don't know how much I took off but here's how much is left. image-879.jpg

#594 5 years ago

Hi Pin-Folk,

Looking for a couple additional tips.

I am doing cabinet touch-up, not a whole redo. I have taken all of Vid's tips and attempted to apply them. I assume if it's good enough for a playfield, it's good enough for a cabinet. I have a good airbrush, the Createx airbrush paints, a good compressor, frisket and a good X-acto with new blades.

The reason you can't lay frisket (right off the roll) onto your surface, trace the design, pull up the frisket, cut it and lay it back down is because it is too flimsy and it's hard to get it into the right design shape again. So, I followed the advice given by Master-Vid1900, which is to adhere the frisket and cut the pattern directly with a sharp X-acto knife. When I do this, I either press so lightly I leave frisket attached, which leads to a mistake in the pattern. When I press heavier, I cut lightly into the cabinet and the other paint, which is noticeable. Am I missing something? I have re-read these posts over and over again.

Secondly, when these cabinets were originally painted, they were done with big metal templates that were not pushed tight to the wood, hence you get that nice overspray look, which is common on cabinet art. You don't get that overspray with frisket and it is noticeable. Any way to fake that without making a big mess?

Thanks as always, everybody!

IMAG1161.jpg
#595 5 years ago

Come on Vid post some pictures. We need some meat!!

#596 5 years ago

when you glue those hotdog inserts back in. put a block of something on the top and push from the back to get them to glue flat to the surface of the playfield. Should be easy to even out the edges then and should be no problem.

#597 5 years ago

MinnPin I am repiainting a whole cabinet I used tracing paper then layed the design onto poster board, cut through the tracing then through the poster board, I read somewhere on here you could raise the template with pennies to get the overspray effect.

#598 5 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

when you glue those hotdog inserts back in. put a block of something on the top and push from the back to get them to glue flat to the surface of the playfield. Should be easy to even out the edges then and should be no problem.

D'oh! I reglued before seeing this--would have been helpful. My method ended up working out okay in the end, but yours would have been easier.

#599 5 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

There are a couple of ways to approach it.
If there is enough wood left to sand out the rut without sanding through the next layer of plywood, then you can work it out to the slightest slope.
The hardest part is getting the freshly sanded wood to match the old dark wood. You can experiment on the back of the playfield to find the right stains or even varnish to match the old wood's tone.
-
If there is deep wear through the next layer of ply then you can fill it with Bondo or auto clear.
Then you will have to mask off the surround area and paint all the way to some feature or border (spot painting will be too hard for most people to match).
Using a "dry" brush technique, grain the painted wood to match the rest of the playfield. If you are on the fence about how much graining to do, do less.
You can also get fancy and scan a section of good wood, then print water slide decals and place them over the Bondo-ed wood. Do this with a laser printer, because ink jet fades pretty fast. Again, make your wood decals go all the way to the borders or some feature like the pops. Little patches draw attention to themselves.

Thanks,
So it seems there is no 'great' way to acheive this repair unfortunately.
I've tried the first approach with okay results, but not perfect.

Painting all the wood in that area is problematic because, on Gottlieb wedgeheads at least, it runs continuously all the way down the shooter lane. That's a lot to paint and it never will look right again.

I usually just opt to clean out the groove as best as possible and then level in with auto clear using a pipette or eyedropper; then block sanding and final topcoat.

Thanks for the reply Vid!

#600 5 years ago
Quoted from MinnPin:

The reason you can't lay frisket (right off the roll) onto your surface, trace the design, pull up the frisket, cut it and lay it back down is because it is too flimsy and it's hard to get it into the right design shape again. So, I followed the advice given by Master-Vid1900, which is to adhere the frisket and cut the pattern directly with a sharp X-acto knife. When I do this, I either press so lightly I leave frisket attached, which leads to a mistake in the pattern. When I press heavier, I cut lightly into the cabinet and the other paint, which is noticeable. Am I missing something? I have re-read these posts over and over again.

To do an entire cab side, you may go through 4-5 blades.

As you gain skill, you will soon be able to cut just the frisket, without cutting into the cab.

Work while seated with a magnifier light.

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