Quoted from packie1:How would someone get access to this color information?? Would this be a case for the CIA? They seem to know about getting hidden information.
Well you could always ask, but I suspect....
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Quoted from mark532011:Just a question about colors. There are lots of posts about matching colors - which makes sense, but when repainting (rather than touchups) a color, is it better to try and match the (presumably) faded color or go with something more vibrant?
Try and get yourself an original flyer of your game. it is not only the colors themselves but also the relation between them. The flyer shows the game as it came out of the factory.
1 week later
Just have to say a huge thank you to Vid and for this thread. I just won the best in show for early 80s SS at Pintastic New England with my Firepower that I restored. People swore it had to be a CPR playfield in there because of how well the clear came out! Between this thread, pop bumper rebuilding, and system 6 bulletproofing, you helped make it all possible! Thank you!
1BFC2FB5-C178-42FF-8E0B-99D731654788 (resized).jpeg
Sana'a
Quoted from La_Porta:Just have to say a huge thank you to Vid and for this thread. I just won the best in show for early 80s SS at Pintastic New England with my Firepower that I restored. People swore it had to be a CPR playfield in there because of how well the clear came out! Between this thread, pop bumper rebuilding, and system 6 bulletproofing, you helped make it all possible! Thank you!
Congrats!!!!!!!!
That looks amazing.
Wow, what a great story, what an awesome machine! Nice work and thanks again to Vid for getting this whole thing going. If you ever get tired of your Firepower I’ll be glad to take it off your hands 
Many thanks, everyone!
I've got a play field restoration type question now though: so, my FP got a few hundred plays on it at the show. It exposed a weakness in my repairs: The ball trough to shooter lane area that the ball hits, I filled it in with epoxy putty as filler, painted, then cleared it. Apparently, the putty does not hold up well after a few hundred poundings on it from the ball trough:
As you see, the repair has crumbled under repeated bashing, but the overlying strip of clear is holding it together. Obviously, this will not stay together forever and needs to be repaired. I already took the step of ordering a protector from Cliffy that I will place over it so it won't happen again. However, I am not one to half-a*s things, and I want to repair the field underneath properly. I know that "spot-clear" does not work per your earlier posts. So, what should I do? Use bondo instead after opening the wound more, then sanding level? Or is there something better and more cosmetically appealing that you would suggest?
So I've been using waterslide decals from the people over at decalpaper.com as recommended here with great success, however I recently bought some white backed waterslides that wouldn't separate from the backing no matter how long they were soaked. After they went over basic troubleshooting with me, they tried to replicate the issue and had the same problem in house. They gave me a refund, and said all of their stock would be defective as it was all one batch, and that I'd have to wait for them to get another batch in. Then 3 days later I got a email saying they were going out of business!
Anyone have another recommended source for laser waterslide decals?
Houston, TX
Quoted from La_Porta:Many thanks, everyone!
I've got a play field restoration type question now though: so, my FP got a few hundred plays on it at the show. It exposed a weakness in my repairs: The ball trough to shooter lane area that the ball hits, I filled it in with epoxy putty as filler, painted, then cleared it. Apparently, the putty does not hold up well after a few hundred poundings on it from the ball trough:As you see, the repair has crumbled under repeated bashing, but the overlying strip of clear is holding it together. Obviously, this will not stay together forever and needs to be repaired. I already took the step of ordering a protector from Cliffy that I will place over it so it won't happen again. However, I am not one to half-a*s things, and I want to repair the field underneath properly. I know that "spot-clear" does not work per your earlier posts. So, what should I do? Use bondo instead after opening the wound more, then sanding level? Or is there something better and more cosmetically appealing that you would suggest?
When I got my JP the inside was beat up just like yours. Mine was caused by the curve that is supposed to guide the ball out of the trough being bent back. That was slowing the ball you pop up and hit the top of the guide and slam straight down on the inside part of the shooter lane and chew it up. I adjusted the guide so it now curves out like it should and hits the metal plate on the outside and then sits nicely in the lane.
I used an epoxy putty to fix mine and with almost 700 plays at TPF there is not a scratch on it. Mine was cleared with autoclear but the only other thing I did was put a very small piece of Mylar over the repair because I just wanted the extra protection. If the ball is launching properly then I don’t think it would be required but I wanted a little insurance.
I don’t think there is much that would stand up to direct ball hits in a corner very well so I think I would watch very closely to the ball eject and see what it is doing and then try and make an adjustment if possible to keep the ball from slamming the edge.
Quoted from Lonzo:I don’t think there is much that would stand up to direct ball hits in a corner very well so I think I would watch very closely to the ball eject and see what it is doing and then try and make an adjustment if possible to keep the ball from slamming the edge.
I'll make a video of it later on and you tell me what you think. I'm not 100% sure I know what you are describing, so perhaps that will help.
Either way, I still need to figure out how to fix the thing.
Quoted from La_Porta:I'll make a video of it later on and you tell me what you think. I'm not 100% sure I know what you are describing, so perhaps that will help.
Either way, I still need to figure out how to fix the thing.
Are you sure this is the filler getting slammed or could there also be a separation between the clear and the wood?
What I'd do if it was my game is do is touch up with some clear, add thick mylar over the area and cut a custom stainless steel protector that extends a bit and wraps over and hides the damage area.
Quoted from lb1:Are you sure this is the filler getting slammed or could there also be a separation between the clear and the wood?
What I'd do if it was my game is do is touch up with some clear, add thick mylar over the area and cut a custom stainless steel protector that extends a bit and wraps over and hides the damage area.
SS protector is on the way from Cliffy. I'm pretty sure that it's the epoxy: the strip of clear on top is pretty adherent, and the epoxy is kind of caving out from the sides (looks like the cracks in the picture).
Ok here is the video of the ball coming out from a few angles. The thing really has cratered into a hole to the wood now, as can be seen in the attached picture. I know I need to fill it in, just what will look/be best I don't know.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tmczc1fje7fed6c/MVI_4114.MOV?dl=0
IMG_4115 (resized).JPGQuoted from La_Porta:Ok here is the video of the ball coming out from a few angles. The thing really has cratered into a hole to the wood now, as can be seen in the attached picture. I know I need to fill it in, just what will look/be best I don't know.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tmczc1fje7fed6c/MVI_4114.MOV?dl=0
It doesn't appear to be going across the shooter lane. Just seems to be popping out and rolling over the edge. Of course I am just talking out loud as I don't have anything to compare it too here. Have you looked in the manual to make sure the coil is the right size?
Quoted from La_Porta:Ok here is the video of the ball coming out from a few angles. The thing really has cratered into a hole to the wood now, as can be seen in the attached picture. I know I need to fill it in, just what will look/be best I don't know.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tmczc1fje7fed6c/MVI_4114.MOV?dl=0
A corner is a terrible area to try to repair with filler. There is just not enough surface to get a good bond. It fails most of the time.
I think that's why you see the huge old school, ugly sanded notches in a lot of earlier style repairs like seen at pinball rehab.
You will have to re-fill it, touch it up with clear an put a steel cliffy over it.
Then it should be fine.
Cliffy on the way, I think that is about the only way to go as you described. I'd love Vid's 2¢ on this as well when he returns!
You don't want to use "Bondo" or lightweight wood putty on a sharp corner (just like we don't use it to repair a cabinet corner).
The 2 part wood epoxy (where you kneed the two components together to a single color) is much stronger.
The epoxy needs a rough surface to stick to. A smooth piece of wood, or varnished wood area will need to be roughed up to offer some "tooth".
Gently round over your edges (that's known as "easing the edge") before painting and clearcoating.
Quoted from vid1900:Gently round over your edges (that's known as "easing the edge") before painting and clearcoating.
I recall you saying "you can't spot clear" over something...so with the rest of the play field in fine condition (and already cleared), how should I go about fixing this one spot?
Quoted from La_Porta:I recall you saying "you can't spot clear" over something...so with the rest of the play field in fine condition (and already cleared), how should I go about fixing this one spot?
The wear edge is the problem with a spot clear.
You can hide some edge under the ball mech and the side rail, so the only wear edge will be the shooter lane itself (assuming you make the edge at the point).
I'd probably fix it, ending the clear inside the routed valley.
So I guess ill fill with the epoxy again, paint to match, sand the area, clear again (I think I have to use a small brush, although that makes you cringe), and then sand to match and polish. I guess it's the best I can do.
By the way, at a seminar that I was at during Pietistic, the TNT guys said something that would make you cringe: that LEMON PLEDGE works well on older EM play fields as wax...
Quoted from La_Porta:By the way, at a seminar that I was at during Pietistic, the TNT guys said something that would make you cringe: that LEMON PLEDGE works well on older EM play fields as wax...
Pledge is just Paraffin wax and Silicone.
Too soft of a wax to protect against wear, AND you get a blast of Silicone to make it worse.
At least it smells terrible so people who can't read know not to use it.
1 week later
Here is a color laser printer for $49 /free shipping:
https://www.quill.com/Dell-C1760NW-Wireless-Color-Laser-Printer/cbs/580861.html
So if you are printing color waterslides or whatever.
It's a super popular printer, so you can get aftermarket toner cheap.
Toner does not dry up like ink does, so if you only print every few months, the printer still works.
Quoted from vid1900:Pledge is just Paraffin wax and Silicone.
Too soft of a wax to protect against wear, AND you get a blast of Silicone to make it worse.
At least it smells terrible so people who can't read know not to use it.
Pledge doesn't even protect furniture. it does nothing that they said it would LOL
But it does remove old wax like they said it would so it's an okay wood cleaner. But not as good as some other stuff like lemon oil or even naphtha.
So I guess one would use Pledge as a silicone loaded wax diluter.
After reading through this excellent resource several times, I have finally taken the plunge and started restoration on my 1975 Williams Little Chief playfield. Stripped the top of the playfield (lots of pictures, parts grouped into ziploc bags with a tag that was in the picture, etc.).. Because I am planning to shop out the 2PAC work since I don't have the equipment to do it safely, my plan was to completely strip the bottom as well.. After remembering that every lamp socket and many other parts are tied together with braid, I scrapped that and went back through here and found pictures of a cradle for transport that I'll throw together. Removed all the rollovers, wireforms, standup targets, etc., and put painter's tape over the holes in hopes of keeping spray out of the backside relays and other parts. I'm scanning the top so I can print decals of the worn lettering, etc., and in the process of doing so, I wondered - should I remove the fin shank screws for the pops and flippers, or just clear over them? My gut says replace, but I don't want any more damage to the playfield top than it's suffered in its years of neglect. Also, there was a missing pin that is broken flush with the playfield. Any ideas on a fix? All I can think of is to drill it out, fill, sand, varnish, and re-drill the correct size.
Quoted from PinballBillinFL:I wondered - should I remove the fin shank screws for the pops and flippers, or just clear over them?
I'd remove them.
Every once in a while I restore a playfield where the pop nail/screws are facing the player, and that's the only time I paint and clear over them.
I'm having this playfield redone. 1935 Rockola Army Navy. Just thought it might be interesting for people to see. The silver paint was taken off with paint remover very slowly with a brush and then masked and repainted. Detail work comes next. Work done by Vintage Coin Op Restorations.
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Quoted from kilmarnock1350:This faded Bally (NGS) grey is IMPOSSIBLE to match. Spent all afternoon and not even close.
I saw the earlier post about adding purple... still didn't help.
Have your wife do it outside in daylight.
Broads have great color vision.
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:This faded Bally (NGS) grey is IMPOSSIBLE to match. Spent all afternoon and not even close.
I saw the earlier post about adding purple... still didn't help.
Zooming in on your picture I suspect you'll never match that grey because it has actually worn though or nearly through creating a random multi-colored tone that the eye optically reads as grey but is actually grey specks interspersed with various wood tones. I would mask off anything complicated (cars, etc) if still good and totally repaint the grey with as close a match as you can make. Then replace any details you covered up with paint (using vinyl masks cut from scans) and/or waterslide decals.
Quoted from vid1900:Here is a color laser printer for $49 /free shipping:
https://www.quill.com/Dell-C1760NW-Wireless-Color-Laser-Printer/cbs/580861.html
So if you are printing color waterslides or whatever.
It's a super popular printer, so you can get aftermarket toner cheap.
Toner does not dry up like ink does, so if you only print every few months, the printer still works.
I ordered one.
Got an email saying sold out.
Quoted from DropTarget:I ordered one.
Got an email saying sold out.
Ditto. If anyone finds another Laser around that price point, please post it here and I'm all over it. I'll have decals to print for a Pinball Pool in the next few coming weeks.
https://www.imagetoner.com/dell-c1760nw-toner-cartridges-set-im.html
Seems to good to be true.
So here's one I just noticed... I'm cleaning up an old Flight 2k that's now nicely functioning, but definitely players condition and not a resto candidate. It's good enough to me to beat on until something nicer comes and replaces it.
Anyway - just as i'm finishing up my waxing I notice a little nick of wood in the shooter lane... finally realize it's a hole in the shooter lane from the prop rod - the sharp stern end poked the whole way through the underneath of the playfield from that heavy wideboard board over the years.
Wood putty the hole and forget it (Topside exposure is absolutely minimal)? Something better/worse?
Quoted from statictrance:Anyway - just as i'm finishing up my waxing I notice a little nick of wood in the shooter lane... finally realize it's a hole in the shooter lane from the prop rod - the sharp stern end poked the whole way through the underneath of the playfield from that heavy wideboard board over the years.
Wood putty the hole and forget it (Topside exposure is absolutely minimal)? Something better/worse?
Wood putty has no strength, the prop rod will instantly poke it's way back through.
Better to use fiberglass resin.
Quoted from vid1900:Sometimes you have a area of the playfield that can't be cleaned up with the Magic Eraser.
Normally, the ME and 99% alcohol cleans off the topcoat, leaving just the paint behind.
If you have to clean too much with the ME, the actual paint will wear away. Or sometimes there is too much printing to clean around. Or sometimes the cracked area is close to the flippers and draws the eye to the cracks, where higher on the playfield it would go completely noticed.
First scan the area with one of those HP 4670 scanners.
Sand any keylining off of the insert, and leave it roughed up to 500 grit. We want that rough area so the clear coat has some "tooth" to hold on to.
Shoot a thin coat of clear over the playfield to lock down any loose pant and seal the surface.
Lightly sand it back to flatten out the cracks that telegraph through the clear.
In this example: Note the planked surface, note that the ME could not get it clean without removing the black printing, note the poor "kiss" of where the red meets the other paints.
Going to bring up a old post but i need to ask. Vid mentions shooting clear over the play field prior to doing a repaint and also shooting clear over your painted areas prior to a wet decal install. I cant seem to see what product this would be. Would it be just a CREATEX gloss clear?
Quoted from statictrance:So here's one I just noticed... I'm cleaning up an old Flight 2k that's now nicely functioning, but definitely players condition and not a resto candidate. It's good enough to me to beat on until something nicer comes and replaces it.
Anyway - just as i'm finishing up my waxing I notice a little nick of wood in the shooter lane... finally realize it's a hole in the shooter lane from the prop rod - the sharp stern end poked the whole way through the underneath of the playfield from that heavy wideboard board over the years.
Wood putty the hole and forget it (Topside exposure is absolutely minimal)? Something better/worse?
Some people glue a quarter inside the hole where the prop rod rests, some also bend the tip of the prop rod to give it a flat surface.
Quoted from vid1900:Wood putty has no strength, the prop rod will instantly poke it's way back through.
Better to use fiberglass resin.
Any tips for someone who's never used fiberglass before?
Quoted from statictrance:Any tips for someone who's never used fiberglass before?
I love using resin. You have to create a mold/dam where you're pouring it in. Maybe a piece of waxed wood (so it doesn't stick to the resin) clamped to the underside. You mix the resin (you don't need fiberglass fibers unless it's a large hole, YMMV) with the hardener in a cup, and pour it in. I'd probably tape around the hole and mask the rest of the area to protect it as well. The stuff dries in like 5 minutes and you can sand it.
Quoted from wolffcub:Going to bring up a old post but i need to ask. Vid mentions shooting clear over the play field prior to doing a repaint and also shooting clear over your painted areas prior to a wet decal install. I cant seem to see what product this would be. Would it be just a CREATEX gloss clear?
I use 2PAC to lock down all the loose old paint (and prevent it from pulling up with masking or frisket tapes).
Quoted from statictrance:Any tips for someone who's never used fiberglass before?
Put the playfield in your rotisserie, get it perfectly level.
Put a piece of tape over the face side of the playfield, so the resin does not drip out.
Fill the hole with resin, let it dry.
Cure time is based on heat, so on a hot day, it will cure super fast - be ready.
Well, 8 months ago I finally decided to try clearing my Alladins Castle. However, I had to wait for the weather to break this spring before I actually could spray. I had planned on trying some airbrush touchups but maybe on the next game.
Anyways, I made some mistakes, learned a lot, and would definitely do it again. My main reason for clearing was to preserve the game - the sunken inserts were beginning to wear. Before and after pics below. Plays as good as it looks. Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge.
20180722_231252 (resized).jpg20180722_231325 (resized).jpg20180722_231436 (resized).jpg20180722_231810 (resized).jpg71ad6e23db4902e340cbfc6a460c0d3ff3a81dc4 (resized).jpg812c2d0472f2c8b8eb8bcf0b85c70a38fb588cc9 (resized).jpg
20180722_231642 (resized).jpgQuoted from pinzrfun:Well, 8 months ago I finally decided to try clearing my Alladins Castle. However, I had to wait for the weather to break this spring before I actually could spray. I had planned on trying some airbrush touchups but maybe on the next game.
Anyways, I made some mistakes, learned a lot, and would definitely do it again. My main reason for clearing was to preserve the game - the sunken inserts were beginning to wear. Before and after pics below. Plays as good as it looks. Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge.
Incredible!!
Quoted from kcZ:Tips on touching up the grey areas of the monitors?
I was thinking of painting the entire area except the inserts grey then printing the black areas on a clear water slide.
Clearing in the chip in Stampede did not work so I cut out the entire lifted part, filled with clear, painted all the grey and water slide decaled the black lines including Stampede. Fresh clear over it all and here it is. Pre color sanding and buffing.
IMG_20180723_153716 (resized).jpgI need some of your opinions, i have a whirlwind that im restoring, had mylar on it, was not bad maybe just one or two inserts bublled, and i had the bad decision to remove the mylar, i dont lose any of the paint, "just" inserts... Also ive check for my experience that freeze method works best for inserts than hairdryer... but ok, lets move on
1 - I have order some insert decals, that im going to scan and do some waterslide decals, my problem is that i dont have color laser printer, and some inserts have color on it... white also...
Question: any way to resolve that?
2 - After waterslide decals i dont have the tools to clearcoat with 2k.. small apartment 
Options
* I have a small airbrush, i can clear locally and put a playfield protector.
* Use some substitute to clear 2k, non toxic option, and apply it, then protect with a good wax or a playfield protector
* waterslide decals, wax, playfield protector
3 - Goo gone to remove the mylar glue?
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