Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

5 years ago



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There are 5961 posts in this topic. You are on page 116 of 120.
#5751 3 months ago
Quoted from jsa:

Any reason not to use frisket vs. masking tape? If I can't blend in a color, I'll probably have to re-do the graphics/lettering, which shouldn't be too difficult.

I don't think my posts were very clear when I put them up: when doing the black areas, I did mask the entire thing with frisket and cut around the areas to be sprayed.

#5752 3 months ago

After my 1st try at shooting 2PAC on a spare High Speed PF turned into a fisheye nightmare I filled all the divots like Vid told me to, sanded it flat and then put it away for a couple of years. I have a Taxi that has been sitting and waiting for at least that long to. I pulled them both out a month or so ago. I cleaned up some Pre-Vid guide touch ups (Testors enamels) and shot a lock down coat on the Taxi. It was a little orange peeled so didn’t do decals, I just I repainted the upper grey, all the big white areas and the blue around Lola. I missed a little on the blue, but it still looks OK. Anyway I re-shot both PF today and finally got a couple of decent coats. It takes a little practice but it can be done... Thanks Vid for this thread. You need to write a book. 1st pic is the “before” picture of the HS with the fisheyes.

E23CA935-8E71-481E-8E3B-7B0535D99CC6 (resized).jpeg

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1 week later
#5753 3 months ago

Here's the chip that I want to fix Vid. What do you think?

20180512_104036 (resized).jpg

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#5754 3 months ago

Anyone know what would make this type of pattern? Doesn't seem anything is alive in the machines by a long shot, but one head and one playfield have marks like this. Like a divot, not boring through like a termite or wood beetle.

Trying to determine how salavgeable this package deal is going to be. Also, if that is on say, 10% of a playfield is it even worth trying to save and clear?

20180512_180702 (resized).jpg

#5755 3 months ago
Quoted from Strummy:

Here's the chip that I want to fix Vid. What do you think?

Touch up the black, and fill with a drop of 2pac.

You did pretty good with the orange

#5756 3 months ago


Quoted from vid1900:Touch up the black, and fill with a drop of 2pac.
You did pretty good with the orange

Thanks vid. What is 2Pac? I Googled it and all I get is the rapper

#5757 3 months ago
Quoted from Strummy:

Thanks vid. What is 2Pac? I Googled it and all I get is the rapper

2 part automotive clear

#5758 3 months ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

2 part automotive clear

Thanks. Is it something that I can buy at a parts store? Is it 2 applications?

#5759 3 months ago
Quoted from Strummy:

Thanks. Is it something that I can buy at a parts store? Is it 2 applications?

You get it at the automotive paint store.

Its an epoxy paint that is in 2 parts, coating and hardener. You have to mix the parts together and the paint will cure or dry fairly rapidly.

Some times you can get a small amount from a body shop if you bring a couple small jars and mix it 1 part hardener to 4 or 5 parts paint before you apply it with an eye dropper in your case.

#5760 3 months ago

Great! Much thanks for the info!

Quoted from pinballinreno:You get it at the automotive paint store.
Its an epoxy paint that is in 2 parts, coating and hardener. You have to mix the parts together and the paint will cure or dry fairly rapidly.
Some times you can get a small amount from a body shop if you bring a couple small jars and mix it 1 part hardener to 4 or 5 parts paint before you apply it with an eye dropper in your case.

#5761 3 months ago

Please learn about the stuff first. Can be very dangerous if precautions are not taken. Awesome stuff, just need to be careful.

#5762 3 months ago
Quoted from Lonzo:

Please learn about the stuff first. Can be very dangerous if precautions are not taken. Awesome stuff, just need to be careful.

Lonzo knows the hard way....

#5763 3 months ago

Ok - Apologies for the Vague post above... Here's a picture that's more on topic. Long story short - I had a bulk purchase, and found one head (the big game pictured above), and more importantly, the Strikes n Spares playfield pictured here... After consulting with some experts (biologist and an exterminator) - the best guess we have is this damage is from Paper Wasps harvesting wood to build their nests. Nothing is living in the wood, or it won't get any worse as it sits.

My question is - Does any one have any recommendations for this? Other than the pic shown, there's more under the left arch and left orbit - but otherwise the PF is mostly clean. Since it isn't a high dollar machine and I'm not going for a full restoration by any stretch - I'm thinking clearing/painting/etc is all too expensive (i've never cleared myself and don't have anywhere near the set up yet). I can't imagine it's playable as it sits - so what would my options be? It feels like the best case here is to shoot for a player's machine with imperfection, but the PF would need filled/leveled with something. Any suggestions?

Thanks to everyone in advance.

SnS Damage (resized).jpeg

#5764 3 months ago
Quoted from Lonzo:

Please learn about the stuff first. Can be very dangerous if precautions are not taken. Awesome stuff, just need to be careful.

Is there a place to read up on this more? I assume that fumes can be dangerous.

#5765 3 months ago
Quoted from statictrance:

I can't imagine it's playable as it sits - so what would my options be? It feels like the best case here is to shoot for a player's machine with imperfection, but the PF would need filled/leveled with something. Any suggestions?

Too bad it's not a brand new Stern, everyone would think it was dimples starting to form.

Seriously, did the wasps eat a hole in the plastic insert?

#5767 3 months ago

We need more pics, but you can fill in those holes (even in the insert) with 2PAC and just make it flush.

Do the holes with the white lining go all the way through to the next layer of plywood?

For a quick and dirty temp fix, you could wax the area, then put a piece of mylar over the holes so the ball can continue unimpeded .

#5768 3 months ago

Scroll above this a few posts too.

Dripping clear is not as risky as spraying it, because you don't have all the clear going airborne.

Still be careful not to splash it into your eyes or get it on your skin.

#5769 3 months ago

So - here are two more pictures for additional looks at it. Further down the orbit on SnS and then the bottom of another head for reference. No worries about the head - it's internal, may just paint/varnish it to seal but not concerned. I think these two pictures account for at least 80-85% of the total damage, most of the rest of in pretty good shape with a little bit of 'normal' wear around a few inserts. Yes, the damage itself are a bunch of little divots - but no hole indicated any type of boring into the wood. That's how we ruled out anything like a wood beetle or something of that nature. It doesn't seem to go a full layer through the plywood or anything like that.

I like the idea of dripping 2Pac - but I'd imagine getting that flat without clearing the rest of the playfield would be a major challenge. Given where it is on the field it isn't like it's dead center above the flippers, but still could affect the upper lanes. I may wax and mylar and see where that gets me. Maybe I can find someone local to help me out with clearing and see if it's a viable fix. I know this PF was remade and available still, so that limits the sense putting time and money into this one makes even further. Then again maybe that saftey net makes this a perfect candidate to give resto a shot and try cutting my teeth...

Thanks again Vid. Any additional comments or insight is much appreciated.

SnS Damage2 (resized).jpeg

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#5770 3 months ago
Quoted from statictrance:

I like the idea of dripping 2Pac - but I'd imagine getting that flat without clearing the rest of the playfield would be a major challenge. Given where it is on the field it isn't like it's dead center above the flippers, but still could affect the upper lanes. I may wax and mylar and see where that gets me. Maybe I can find someone local to help me out with clearing and see if it's a viable fix. I know this PF was remade and available still, so that limits the sense putting time and money into this one makes even further. Then again maybe that saftey net makes this a perfect candidate to give resto a shot and try cutting my teeth...

Thanks again Vid. Any additional comments or insight is much appreciated.

Mylar will easily patch across those holes, just make sure you don't forget to wax first.

Or you could just get a playfield protector and forget about the whole repair process.

I think that if you ever wanted to learn how to repair a playfield, this is the one to learn on.

If you get tired, you can put it away and come back to it months latter (because you don't have a game waiting).

If you really get tired, you can give it to someone else (because you basically got it for free).

On that head, you can just fill the holes with Bondo, and paint over it.

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#5771 3 months ago

Would this be bad to use? I touched up a chipped insert on a T2 years ago. I can't remember what I used but I did have some issues with the paint running. That's one of my concerns

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#5772 3 months ago
Quoted from Strummy:

Would this be bad to use? I touched up a chipped insert on a T2 years ago. I can't remember what I used but I did have some issues with the paint running. That's one of my concerns

If it does not require 2 part mixing, it's not what you want.

#5773 3 months ago

vid1900 I spent a few hours yesterday at a automotive paint supply (pretty much the only decent one left here, FinishMasters) near San Francisco, California.

I figure I'd share what I learned here in case there are California folk interested in getting their hands on clear coat.

The typical auto parts stores aren't selling anything even close to quality clear coat or paint products, and I've checked them all. Even with FinishMasters, I had to go to more of a central hub to get access to decent inventory.

One interesting tidbit is that it is now apparently illegal to buy/sell PPG JC660 (or, as you say, it's cousin Omni 161) in California. I believe the current product name for that is the Omni MC161 High Solids Urethane Clear...They still make it, but I'll be damned if you can find a jug of it in California. Omni/PPG make a line of clears and paints with the code "VOC" (stands for meeting the standards for Volatile Organic Compounds) that meet the newer regulations, so you can only buy these VOC coded products. My sense is that they were selling 161 as part of their inventory until it was gone, which seems to be the case everywhere. They have various universal VOC clears of various brands, though when describing the types of clear coating we all do here, they admitted the JC660 would have been way more forgiving (particularly on something laid flat). They used the term "spot clearing," which I guess is a thing that JC660 is often used for.

This is what we settled on, Omni MC760, is a "universal" VOC 4 clear, though no question it has different characteristics than the JC660.

IMG_1094 (resized).JPG

Anyone ever used this stuff? I'll report back our experiences with it. I'm not sure it's hard enough for a playfield, but I'd love any thoughts on this. For the technical folk, here is the datasheet:

http://buyat.ppg.com/RefinishProductCatalog/ServeFile.ashx?FileId=6A15C8EE-9F19-4BA7-9CB1-2D807C3D8EA8

For this clear, you need to sand the base coat if you wait longer than 24 hours after the base coat is applied before shooting. They recommend 5-10 minutes between coats of clear, and 4 hours before it resists masking tape, and around 16 hours of air-drying before you can sand or polish it.

The OneChoice SLV4985 is a flattening agent to bring down the gloss if you want something more like a semi-gloss or matte clear (which we will be doing for our cabinet work). They recommended only using the flattening agent if you plan on covering everything you want to coat in one pass from one mix, because it's apparently super hard to get consistent mixes. Also, you can't sand/buff a flattened clear, so it's obviously only useful for cabinet work.

All of this stuff is wicked expensive and you really want to do more research than I did before you jump in.

#5774 3 months ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

It happened everywhere where there was fresh, unsealed white paint. Very small repairs in black and purple were not affected. I had sanded the entire playfield with 600 grit prior to painting. I heat set all of the paint with a hairdryer on high 20 minutes after application and applied the clear two days later. According to my infrared temp gun, my hairdryer method gets the paint to about 115-120F. I hold that temperature for about a minute in each area.
Here are more examples:

I had this happen on a Gladiators touch up I did. All the red did the same as your white. Believe it or not, I let it partially dry and tapped it down with my finger. When it dried, it actually looked pretty good. Warning: your results may vary!

To me, this is a reaction of the clear with the paint, not wet paint. Something that should be stated (if it isn't) in the touch-up tips is that you should ALWAYS TEST your clear on all the paint you use to avoid reactions like this. For all my touch ups, I do this. Just paint all the colors on a piece of wood and clear it. I've found other reactions and had to switch my clear.

#5775 3 months ago
Quoted from jsa:

One interesting tidbit is that it is now apparently illegal to buy/sell PPG JC660 (or, as you say, it's cousin Omni 161) in California. I believe the current product name for that is the Omni MC161 High Solids Urethane Clear...They still make it, but I'll be damned if you can find a jug of it in California.

I wonder if you can buy it mail order from https://www.welleauto.com and have them ship to Cali?

You have to call them, they don't sell it in their shopping cart.

Quoted from jsa:

This is what we settled on, Omni MC760, is a "universal" VOC 4 clear, though no question it has different characteristics than the JC660.

Clear 1/4 of the backside of a playfield.

Bounce a few balls on it and make sure it does not crack.

Drill a few holes and make sure it does not crack.

One guy used to(probably still does) clear playfields with some "super hard clear" and it would crack when you drilled any of the post holes in his work.

For playfields, we need durable, NOT crazy hard.

#5776 3 months ago

What brand of epoxy/glue are you guys using on inserts? And why do Stern inserts stink when you sand them? They smell like vomit LoL

#5777 3 months ago
Quoted from sohchx:

What brand of epoxy/glue are you guys using on inserts?

I use "2 Heads Epoxy" from West Systems because I have a gallon of it, but most guys use the HF stuff and it works fine.

Quoted from sohchx:

And why do Stern inserts stink when you sand them? They smell like vomit LoL

Butyl plastics smell like vomit.

That's why when you open your tool box with all the screwdrivers in it, you puke.

Butyl is tough, so it's great for tool handles, but bad for your nose when they have been closed up for a while

#5778 3 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I use "2 Heads Epoxy" from West Systems because I have a gallon of it, but most guys use the HF stuff and it works fine.

Butyl plastics smell like vomit.
That's why when you open your tool box with all the screwdrivers in it, you puke.
Butyl is tough, so it's great for tool handles, but bad for your nose when they have been closed up for a while

HF as in Harbor Freight?? Thanks Vid!!

#5779 3 months ago
Quoted from sohchx:

HF as in Harbor Freight?? Thanks Vid!!

Yep, Harbor Freight

#5780 3 months ago

I am looking at this thread and wondered if there was a suggestion on how to fix a wear spot by a kickout area?

#5781 3 months ago
Quoted from pacman11:

I am looking at this thread and wondered if there was a suggestion on how to fix a wear spot by a kickout area?

I'm on my phone and can't look for it, but there is a section of patching the wear then painting it to match.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/10#post-1119649

#5782 88 days ago

Can anything be done to make this better?

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#5783 88 days ago
Quoted from Strummy:

Can anything be done to make this better?

Color the black with a high pigment paint pen dont worry about the red, put mylar over it.

Something similar to this maybe:

amazon.com link »

If you must do the red you can use a marker and wipe off the excess. It might look better but it wont match perfectly.
Still put mylar over the area.

#5784 88 days ago
Quoted from Strummy:

Can anything be done to make this better?

Check backside, make sure no oversized screw has been jammed in there.

Like Pinballinreno says, clean with Naphtha, put paint in crack, wait a few, wipe excess paint off surface leaving paint only in valley, wax, then Mylar.

#5785 88 days ago

Thanks guys. This is a great thread. I'm still trying to make it to my local body shop to see if I can get a small amount of the 2 part clear coat for the other issue. Do you know of anywhere to buy a 2 part clear touch up kit?

#5786 87 days ago
Quoted from Strummy:

Do you know of anywhere to buy a 2 part clear touch up kit?

That's a great idea for one of the pinball companies to start selling.

A little touch up kit with a glass eyedropper lid for both parts.

#5787 87 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

That's a great idea for one of the pinball companies to start selling.
A little touch up kit with a glass eyedropper lid for both parts.

Much like they sell 5 min epoxy, squirt some into a cup, mix and go.

Id buy some.

#5788 87 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

Much like they sell 5 min epoxy, squirt some into a cup, mix and go.
Id buy some.

Here's a 4 double syringe that would be a good start:

https://www.indigodental.com/en/products/accessories/double-syringe-10-ml-41-white/

#5789 87 days ago

You could just sell pre-filled syinges for spot repairs on cars or anything!

#5790 86 days ago

Hi Vid,
I have releveled and epoxyed a bunch of inserts. Some of the sunken inserts had chipped artwork around them. These small areas of artwork have been brush primed and touched up. The larger chipped areas are still a shade lower then the rest, due to not as many layers of paint. I will be clear coating p.f. next weekend.
My thought is, can I drip a tiny amount of 2k clear into these chips a day or so before I reclear to make it a little more level, then clear the entire p.f? Or will the clear flow into these clips and "self level"?
Thanks
Justin

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#5791 86 days ago

Sorry double post

#5792 86 days ago

Sorry, double post

#5794 86 days ago

Vid,
I've seen you recommend splitting large waterslide decals into several smaller decals. How big do you normally make your pieces? I'm redoing a Bally playboy center area. I sanded the art off and am planning on airbrushing white and decaling over it, but I only have experience with doing insert sized decals in the past.

#5795 86 days ago
Quoted from McSquid:

Vid,
I've seen you recommend splitting large waterslide decals into several smaller decals. How big do you normally make your pieces? I'm redoing a Bally playboy center area. I sanded the art off and am planning on airbrushing white and decaling over it, but I only have experience with doing insert sized decals in the past.

Here is a link to the post in my Rire restoration that covers the center building area that might help you. One of the tricks I used was to use cold water. When I use warm water the decals would stretch as I put them on. With cold, they went on perfect. I also prep the area with decal setting solution to help adhesion.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-fire-restoration/page/3#post-1960065

#5796 85 days ago
Quoted from FuryosJustin:

Hi Vid,
I have releveled and epoxyed a bunch of inserts. Some of the sunken inserts had chipped artwork around them.
My thought is, can I drip a tiny amount of 2k clear into these chips a day or so before I reclear to make it a little more level, then clear the entire p.f? Or will the clear flow into these clips and "self level"?
Thanks
Justin

It will not self level.

Level your inserts, then clear.

#5797 81 days ago

Trying to restore my Fast Draw drops targets . I printed the decals and , after erasing the original deteriorated ones , I applied then as best as I could.
I intend to use some of the 2PAC from my final coat of the playfield to do the Apron and decals.
Would the clear withstand the ball pounding , or should I cover the drop card faces with mylar ?
_DSF6198 (resized).JPG_DSF6200 (resized).JPG_DSF6202 (resized).JPG_DSF3158 (resized).JPG_DSF5628 (resized).JPG_DSF5629 (resized).JPG

#5798 81 days ago
Quoted from phototamer:

Trying to restore my Fast Draw drops targets . I printed the decals and , after erasing the original deteriorated ones , I applied then as best as I could.
I intend to use some of the 2PAC from my final coat of the playfield to do the Apron and decals.
Would the clear withstand the ball pounding , or should I cover the drop card faces with mylar ?

Flex and deformation = death for clear adhesion.

Just mylar them. If they are flat, you'll never even see it in the game. Mylar over hot-stamped targets will usually see some gapping.

But PBR has fast draw targets regardless... why go through this work to strip, print, etc?

#5799 81 days ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Flex and deformation = death for clear adhesion.
Just mylar them. If they are flat, you'll never even see it in the game. Mylar over hot-stamped targets will usually see some gapping.
But PBR has fast draw targets regardless... why go through this work to strip, print, etc?

Getting them from abroad would set me back 80 dollars , with shipping !
It is not only the money , but the pleasure of seeing ones work in action
Given your explanation , Mylar looks a better option ... I guess.

#5800 81 days ago

Any thoughts on this product? The can is only good for one use. The hardener gets injected into the can when ready to use.

USC Spray Max 2k High Gloss Clearcoat Aerosol amazon.com link »

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