Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration

(Topic ID: 33446)

Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

5 years ago



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#5651 6 months ago
Quoted from mark532011:

The mylar protector around the pop bumper has puckered up on my Globetrotter. Am I correct is assuming there is no fix and it has to go?

The good news is that it might be easy to remove.

Slit the center of the pucker so you have a pull tab.

Heat it up, and pull it back against itself - don't pull up from the playfield.

#5652 6 months ago
Quoted from mark532011:

The mylar protector around the pop bumper has puckered up on my Globetrotter. Am I correct is assuming there is no fix and it has to go?

I would freeze and remove it. Then you can always reapply a new mylar ring for protection. There are online stores that have them.

#5653 6 months ago
Quoted from TheCapn:

I would freeze and remove it. Then you can always reapply a new mylar ring for protection. There are online stores that have them.

Heat is generally better on ancient Mylar; freezing better on the 90s stuff.

Sometimes I've used both after finding that the Mylar has been replaced at some point with aftermarket stuff.

Yes, make sure you replace it with new stuff after you clear coat.

#5654 6 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Heat is generally better on ancient Mylar; freezing better on the 90s stuff.
Sometimes I've used both after finding that the Mylar has been replaced at some point with aftermarket stuff.
Yes, make sure you replace it with new stuff after you clear coat.

Vid,
Wanted to post a follow up to my earlier inquiry.

Used heat on the practice playfield and things were going well. . .

IMG_7407 (resized).JPG

But then the process started going sideways and paint started coming up with the mylar. I was so distraught that I had to start painting (orange) the areas that had lifted. It is possible I had a little more heat than I should have.

IMG_7414 (resized).JPG

I tested compressed air/freezing on another area of the practice playfield (strangely enough it had mylar in front of the slingshots but the "good" playfield did not) and it seemed to work ok, so I took a deep breath and went that route.

IMG_7412 (resized).JPG

Mylar removed with minimal damage.

Just wanted to take a minute to thank you for your advice -- I will sleep easier at night with this step behind me.

#5655 6 months ago
Quoted from TractorDoc:

I tested compressed air/freezing on another area of the practice playfield (strangely enough it had mylar in front of the slingshots but the "good" playfield did not) and it seemed to work ok, so I took a deep breath and went that route.

Yes, over 35 years, the Mylar may have been added, removed, replaced with different brands that have different adhesives.

Peeling Mylar is always better to pull it back over itself, than to pull or lift up. So on a ring, if you can get a section up, you can cut it through to the center, then use it like a pull tab.

But don't lift up, pull back.

That 1st ring looks like nothing would have saved it, lol.

Good job!

#5656 6 months ago

Hi all,

Has this been covered? I have a Williams Cyclone, the original mylar has lifted in a few tiny spots on a couple of inserts. What's the preferred way of correcting the issue and stop it from getting worse?

#5657 6 months ago

Reading this thread , or better “Bible” , on Playfield restoration the recommended stages of finishing the final clear coat is , after final 1500/2000 sanding , buffing with medium cut followed by swirl remover and , if mirror finish required , finishing with machine glaze. Could Novus 2 or Novus 3 or something similar one can buy in Europe replace the medium cut step if Meguiars products cannot be obtained ?

Charles

#5658 6 months ago
Quoted from Muskie82:

So I have a playfield that the Mylar is perfect on. I'm a little hesitant to pull it up and lose more artwork. If I repair the artwork around the edges can I still successfully clear the rest of the playfield? I guess I would have to mask off the Mylar areas. Thoughts?

I've decided I don't want to pull the Mylar. Once I fix the art, can I tape off the Mylar and spray clear? That even possible? Has anyone done it before? Thanks

#5659 6 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Quoted from TractorDoc:Would masking off the mylar and clearing the rest of the playfield be an acceptable approach in this situation?

The clear would peel at the seam where the clear meets the mylar.

Probably should let the expert speak, but this is the reply he gave to me.

#5660 5 months ago

Not sure if anyone has posted this before, but what are your thoughts on this method for lowering a raised insert? Which adhesive would be best to keep it lowered? Epoxy? Super glue? Wood glue?

#5661 5 months ago
Quoted from Bugsy:

Not sure if anyone has posted this before, but what are your thoughts on this method for lowering a raised insert? Which adhesive would be best to keep it lowered? Epoxy? Super glue? Wood glue?
» YouTube video

Epoxy is good to hold is down.

#5662 5 months ago

Had some time today to get back into my flash touchups. Before and afters attached. Not horrible for a players condition machine. Wife had to help me match the blue.

20180421_160443 (resized).jpg

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20180421_174314 (resized).jpg

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20180421_174319 (resized).jpg

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#5663 5 months ago

Vid-
I know we've been over this before, but wanted to ask again how to safely and with as little damage as possible, remove screws, posts, and wire ball guides from Gottlieb 80's era machines (System 80 through 80B) playfields. I believe some damage is inevitable, but I would welcome some advice. I'm getting ready to strip a Haunted House main playfield prior to restoration, and don't particularly care to add insult to injury when removing them parts. In the past, I've evenly tapped out the wire ball guides from the bottom of the playfield(s) with a proper size punch and brass hammer, but if there is a better way, I'd like to know about it in detail. Prying them out is an option, but I don't have the proper tooling to perform removal this way. Be advised: these era Gottliebs had the end of the wire guides stamped to help retain them in the playfield which is why they're so hard to remove without damaging the screened artwork. But you knew this already...........................

#5664 5 months ago
Quoted from swanng:

Vid-
I know we've been over this before, but wanted to ask again how to safely and with as little damage as possible, remove screws, posts, and wire ball guides from Gottlieb 80's era machines (System 80 through 80B) playfields. I believe some damage is inevitable, but I would welcome some advice. I'm getting ready to strip a Haunted House main playfield prior to restoration, and don't particularly care to add insult to injury when removing them parts. In the past, I've evenly tapped out the wire ball guides from the bottom of the playfield(s) with a proper size punch and brass hammer, but if there is a better way, I'd like to know about it in detail. Prying them out is an option, but I don't have the proper tooling to perform removal this way. Be advised: these era Gottliebs had the end of the wire guides stamped to help retain them in the playfield which is why they're so hard to remove without damaging the screened artwork. But you knew this already...........................

In this post https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/88#post-3779355

Quoted from vid1900:

If the wire guides have barbs on them, tap the guides so the barbs protrude out the back of the playfield. 2 seconds with a Dremel will remove the barb tabs, and now the guides can be safely extracted as normal.

#5665 5 months ago

Maybe you make new wire and trash the old ones.

Then you can cut them on to and pull them out the bottom.

That way you never have to pull up and risk lifting something. Just have to make new wires

#5666 5 months ago

Should read “ cut them on top”

Damn phone.....

#5667 5 months ago

This is not really a logical approach because it will make the wire guides unusable after they are cut due to the shorter length. Once you cut the barbs, you have just cut off 1/4 of the effective length of the guide. And these wire guides are now unobtainium from Steve Young or anywhere else that I know of, and I don't have the patience or the skill to make new wire guides myself.

So that option is OUT.

Here is a sample of what we're talking about:

DSC00006 (resized).JPG

#5668 5 months ago

just cut the barbs off the post, don't cut the post.. make sense? If not I can make pictures.

#5669 5 months ago

^ Right, just grind the barbs off, don't cut the leg shorter.

If you lose any and have to build new ones, stainless steel welding rod works great.

#5670 5 months ago

Grinding the barbs off works fine IF the barbs are exposed before the upper part of the ball guide hits the top of the playfield, not so good otherwise. And cutting the barbs off is not an option. I don't have a strong enough pair of flush cutters to do the job. And of course there will be sharp edges left unless filed down.
Filing with needle files or grinding with a Dremel sounds like the best idea. VERY time consuming and patience-wearing.

#5671 5 months ago
Quoted from swanng:

Filing with needle files or grinding with a Dremel sounds like the best idea. VERY time consuming and patience-wearing.

It it was easy, then I would not be able to charge $100 for the job.

Like most things in playfield restoration, it's time consuming.

Stainless is soft metal (unless you heat it up), so Dremel away while listening to some Black Flag.

Wear safety glasses, dust mask.

#5672 5 months ago

When I was growing up, Black Flag was an insecticide, so no thanks.
I find that I do much more accurate work when listening to classical music.
The precision translates over, if you have the capacity to understand it.
Most don't.

#5673 5 months ago
Quoted from swanng:

When I was growing up, Black Flag was an insecticide, so no thanks.

It still is.

Best hornet killer around.

Quoted from swanng:

I find that I do much more accurate work when listening to classical music.
The precision translates over, if you have the capacity to understand it.
Most don't.

I like classical music (Rachmaninoff is my favs), but if I'm working out, or working in the shop I like the sheer destruction of a pot of Black Insomnia coffee and some Hardcore D&B or Punk.

And like the insecticide, it keeps pests from hanging around while I'm working.

#5674 5 months ago

Vid, on my FP that I just restored, I get a few airballs now and again that hit the glass. I know that due to some game design, this can be common (i.e. multi ball balls colliding). However, sometimes I get them when the balls come down quickly through the middle and hit the anti-cheating bars under the flipper bats. I tapped them down as far as I could during the play field repopulation, and I am not really wanting to put them in any further for fear of cracking the clear. I'll include pictures of them...they seem pretty far down, is this something that just happens occasionally or do these things need adjustment somehow?

IMG_2469 (resized).JPG

IMG_2470 (resized).JPG

#5675 5 months ago

Earlier I was asking about lowering / leveling raised inserts, and linked to a video of someone showing a great way to do that. This weekend I put that into practice and had fantastic results! Unfortunately I didn't get any before pictures, but the inserts are now flush in the playfield.

I went to Harbor Freight and purchased the big 12" clamp and some gorilla glue brand epoxy. Also stopped at Home Depot for some pieces of wood, I didn't have any laying around and they had these spare pieces they gave me for free.

For those wondering about the process, I simply mixed the epoxy, applied it on the underneath side of the insert where the insert meets the wood, then clamped it using the two pieces of wood (one wood piece on top, one on the bottom of the playfield.) The top piece of wood had a small piece of wax paper underneath for some added protection. The epoxy instructions said it takes ~30 minutes to set, so I left it clamped tightly for that amount of time, then released a bit of pressure but kept it clamped semi-tightly for another few hours just to be safe.

When I took the clamp off I was very pleased with the result. Super flush insert, and as of today, the insert has not raised back up and has stayed put. I would recommend this method to anyone with raised inserts. I have heard of the hair dryer and hammer method before, but putting a hammer to a playfield just didn't sit quite well with me.

All in all, the repair cost about $15. $10 for the 12" clamp, $5 for the epoxy.

Fish Tales Insert Repair.jpg

#5676 5 months ago

So the inserts actually stick down below the level of the wood underneath? Otherwise how would you get any pressure to push them back up. I had assumed you would have to push on the middle of the plastic itself and I was worried about breaking the plastic.

#5677 5 months ago

That’s vids exact method documented in this thread...it does indeed work great.

#5678 5 months ago
Quoted from La_Porta:

Vid, on my FP that I just restored, I get a few airballs now and again that hit the glass. I know that due to some game design, this can be common (i.e. multi ball balls colliding). However, sometimes I get them when the balls come down quickly through the middle and hit the anti-cheating bars under the flipper bats. I tapped them down as far as I could during the play field repopulation, and I am not really wanting to put them in any further for fear of cracking the clear. I'll include pictures of them...they seem pretty far down, is this something that just happens occasionally or do these things need adjustment somehow?

Balls hit the glass in fast games; and some games are designed for it to happen (Whitewater, Comet).

If the game is only for home use, you can remove the bangback bars.

Even if the league plays at your house, bangback is not allowed anyway.

#5679 5 months ago
Quoted from Bugsy:

Earlier I was asking about lowering / leveling raised inserts, and linked to a video of someone showing a great way to do that. This weekend I put that into practice and had fantastic results! Unfortunately I didn't get any before pictures, but the inserts are now flush in the playfield.

Yep, that's a great way to do it!

There are some pics of the whole process in the first few pages of this thread.

#5680 5 months ago
Quoted from mark532011:

So the inserts actually stick down below the level of the wood underneath? Otherwise how would you get any pressure to push them back up. I had assumed you would have to push on the middle of the plastic itself and I was worried about breaking the plastic.

If you have to push an insert back up (usually you need them to go down), you warm the area with a hair dryer, then push it up from below with a socket for a ratchet wrench.

#5681 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

There are some pics of the whole process in the first few pages of this thread.

Sorry, this thread is many many pages long, so just posting updates for the people who are looking at the latest comments. That and reiterating how well it works.

#5682 5 months ago

HELP!!!
Over the last few days I have spent hours masking off areas on a playfield and today I sprayed. I used createx paints and original low tack frisket. When I began removing the frisket it pulled up the edges of the painted areas making them look rubbish.
I even tried scoring the edges with an x-acto but it wasn’t much better. I have now removed all the paint for round 2. I really don’t want a round 3...
What have I done wrong here? Please help!

#5683 5 months ago
Quoted from tomds:

HELP!!!
Over the last few days I have spent hours masking off areas on a playfield and today I sprayed. I used createx paints and original low tack frisket. When I began removing the frisket it pulled up the edges of the painted areas making them look rubbish.
I even tried scoring the edges with an x-acto but it wasn’t much better. I have now removed all the paint for round 2. I really don’t want a round 3...
What have I done wrong here? Please help!

Was the paint too thick?

Did you heat set the paint?

Was the playfield lightly sanded for tooth?

Was the frisket old or last roll on the shelf at Hobby Lobby?

#5684 5 months ago

I’m guessing it was too thick as the paint was peeling off like latex. I had all the other things you mention covered. I’ll lay it down thinner when the new paint comes and see what happens. Thanks

#5685 5 months ago

Haven’t located any used (aged) inserts for this.

I need 4 3/4” inserts. New ones are too WHITE. Is there a way to age the new ones with an effect somehow?

0E7892D4-9FA2-4F70-ADD1-1BF2533B0AD8 (resized).jpeg

#5686 5 months ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

New ones are too WHITE. Is there a way to age the new ones with an effect somehow?

This broad has a great trick for you:

#5687 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

This broad has a great trick for you:
» YouTube video

vid1900 where the heck do you find this stuff!?

#5688 5 months ago
Quoted from jsa:

vid1900 where the heck do you find this stuff!?

Often it quicker to find an existing video, than it is to describe a repair.

As far as that video specifically, I'm always building or restoring guitars, like this one I built a few weeks ago; Strummy Daniels:

zzz_20180403_144259342 (resized).jpg

#5689 5 months ago

I still say, there should be a repository.

Who has Bally KISS playfield scans?

Yes, I know, you know who removed them. Period .

#5690 5 months ago

Hey Vid you showed a guitar How about this? Check out that hole just under the knob on my 87 MIJ Ibanez. The guys at the guitar shop speculate that someone along the way was messing with a drill and shot it right into the body. I found this video and it seemed like it might be a good way to go. What do you think of his technique? The hole is so ugly I doubt if I can make it worse.

CF8EF3E8-CA74-47DD-A58A-C00B5FEE61B4 (resized).jpeg

#5691 5 months ago

^ That hole looks too deep for CA repair.

I'd have to see the back side, but probably I'd put a wood dowel in the hole flush with the control cavity and maybe .5mm below the face. THEN do your black (or gunmetal) color and CA repair.

2PAC that we use on playfields buffs out even better than CA.

#5692 5 months ago
Quoted from tomds:

HELP!!!
Over the last few days I have spent hours masking off areas on a playfield and today I sprayed. I used createx paints and original low tack frisket. When I began removing the frisket it pulled up the edges of the painted areas making them look rubbish.
I even tried scoring the edges with an x-acto but it wasn’t much better. I have now removed all the paint for round 2. I really don’t want a round 3...
What have I done wrong here? Please help!

Vids suggestions are spot on.
Went thru the exact same problem.
Read my post #3824 in this topic for additional tips to solve your problem.
Worked for me. Never peeled paint after that.
Kind of like an epiffany.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/77#post-3496256

It's all about being patient and putting down very thin coats.

#5693 5 months ago
Quoted from tomds:

HELP!!!
Over the last few days I have spent hours masking off areas on a playfield and today I sprayed. I used createx paints and original low tack frisket. When I began removing the frisket it pulled up the edges of the painted areas making them look rubbish.
I even tried scoring the edges with an x-acto but it wasn’t much better. I have now removed all the paint for round 2. I really don’t want a round 3...
What have I done wrong here? Please help!

Fred736 remarks are spot on. Additionally to multiple light layers with heating inb2in, I also dilute the paint with its own reduser , sometimes up to 50 percent and that makes the paint rock solid . Even removing frisket vertically does not lift the paint !

#5694 5 months ago

Best way to remove this without damage? I plan to get a Brad Setter for putting it back when finished.

53 GC Metal Side (resized).png

#5695 5 months ago
Quoted from PinballFever:

Best way to remove this without damage? I plan to get a Brad Setter for putting it back when finished.

Put a stiff paint scraper behind and wiggle.

Then use flush cut wire cutters to pull out the nails.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/removing-side-rails-vids-guide

If that corrosion on the bottom is through to the copper plating, make a new one from SS:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/making-new-ball-guides-from-scratch-vids-guide

#5696 5 months ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Put a stiff paint scraper behind and wiggle.
Then use flush cut wire cutters to pull out the nails.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/removing-side-rails-vids-guide
If that corrosion on the bottom is through to the copper plating, make a new one from SS:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/making-new-ball-guides-from-scratch-vids-guide

A few good pinball tools. The Osborne one is very good but pricey:

http://www.woodworkingparts.com/fastcap-flush-cut-end-nipper-pliers/

amazon.com link »

amazon.com link »

Its nice that some the luthier tools are perfect for playfield and pinball restoration.

#5697 5 months ago

Vid, thank you for the quick answer.

#5698 5 months ago

When I started my Comet restoration thread, I was kind of nervous about the rather massive potential to screw up in public but vowed to do it anyway. (No making a mistake, fixing it behind the scenes and then moving on without including it in the documentation thread.) I figured this was the best approach to both receive helpful feedback and to act as a cautionary tale for other newbies to avoid similar pitfalls. Well folks, I officially have a major screw-up to report. Check this out:

20180427_172230 (resized).jpg

That's a dome in the clear that formed around a post 24-48 hours after installing it. There are also some lesser points of failure where the clear formed a halo or partial halo around posts.

20180428_071744 (resized).jpg

One of the interesting/horrifying things was that in some places where there are multiple posts that get rubbered as a group, the clear was slightly buckling but only on the sides of the posts that were facing each other as though the force of the rubber pulling on the posts which were snug on the playfield had actually pulled the clear in that direction.

When I discovered all this I immediately removed all of the rubber and loosened all of the posts to remove any tension. Then I said, "##!!@%**!!" and walked away to consider my folly.

I am thinking that the clear was not cured fully enough to handle pressure and tension being applied to it in such a focused way, but I'm not sure. I'm new to this.

My current thought/plan is to depopulate the topside again, mix a tiny batch of clear and inject it with an insulin needle into the areas that failed but maybe there's some other glue or technique that would be better than an injection of clear? After whatever the fix is, I plan on walking away for as long as necessary for the clear to be hard as a freaking rock before repopulating again.

Vid - what would you do?

#5699 5 months ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

When I started my Comet restoration thread, I was kind of nervous about the rather massive potential to screw up in public but vowed to do it anyway. (No making a mistake, fixing it behind the scenes and then moving on without including it in the documentation thread.) I figured this was the best approach to both receive helpful feedback and to act as a cautionary tale for other newbies to avoid similar pitfalls. Well folks, I officially have a major screw-up to report. Check this out:

That's a dome in the clear that formed around a post 24-48 hours after installing it. There are also some lesser points of failure where the clear formed a halo or partial halo around posts.

One of the interesting/horrifying things was that in some places where there are multiple posts that get rubbered as a group, the clear was slightly buckling but only on the sides of the posts that were facing each other as though the force of the rubber pulling on the posts which were snug on the playfield had actually pulled the clear in that direction.
When I discovered all this I immediately removed all of the rubber and loosened all of the posts to remove any tension. Then I said, "##!!@%**!!" and walked away to consider my folly.
I am thinking that the clear was not cured fully enough to handle pressure and tension being applied to it in such a focused way, but I'm not sure. I'm new to this.
My current thought/plan is to depopulate the topside again, mix a tiny batch of clear and inject it with an insulin needle into the areas that failed but maybe there's some other glue or technique that would be better than an injection of clear? After whatever the fix is, I plan on walking away for as long as necessary for the clear to be hard as a freaking rock before repopulating again.
Vid - what would you do?

Oh man, that is a bummer! I haven’t cleared anything myself (yet), so I can’t offer any advice, but I will be watching with interest to see how you handle this...

-Brian

#5700 5 months ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

That's a dome in the clear that formed around a post 24-48 hours after installing it. There are also some lesser points of failure where the clear formed a halo or partial halo around posts.

Yikes!

First, that clear does not look fully cured.

What kind is it?

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