Vid's Guide to Ultimate Playfield Restoration


By vid1900

5 years ago


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#5551 52 days ago

F3FFB7A3-C8BD-4ADE-A824-4D6B7C94E638 (resized).jpeg

7875354A-468D-4872-A101-6CFE9EE8CF73 (resized).jpeg

#5552 52 days ago

Old mylar

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#5553 52 days ago

New Mylar

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#5554 52 days ago

Old Mylar

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#5555 52 days ago

New Mylar image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg

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#5556 52 days ago

Not perfect, but much better than before. Hope this helps someone in future.

#5557 51 days ago

Looks nice.
Great job.

#5558 51 days ago

Hey Vid, or anyone out there. I picked up a HP 4670 Scanner but can't get the damn thing to work. My computer simply doesn't recognize the scanner when plugged into the USB port. I've downloaded all the drivers that will make this relic work on a newer machine. Still no recognition. I'm thinking it's a hardware issue and will be getting a refund.

I've tried the Magic Wand thing and you're correct. It simply isn't the right tool to get proper playfield scans.

Are you aware of any other flat bed scanners that are out there that would work for the purpose of getting proper playfield scans?

Thanks, lk

#5559 51 days ago

Are you powering the scanner when you plug it in or just inserting the USB. The scanner needs to be on. What OS are you using? I had problems on a Win7 laptop having it recognize it and it turned out the USB ports on the right side were the problem but the left side worked.

-3
#5560 51 days ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

Are you powering the scanner when you plug it in or just inserting the USB. The scanner needs to be on. What OS are you using? I had problems on a Win7 laptop having it recognize it and it turned out the USB ports on the right side were the problem but the left side worked.

Yeah Can't plug a USB 2.0 device into a USB 3.0 Slot ( has a blue insert on the computer side or will say 3.0). Sometimes devices can to plugged into 3.0 but best results are to plug it into the slot it was designed for.

#5561 50 days ago

Not sure what you mean, USB 3 is expressly intended to be backwardly compatible with USB 2, you can plug devices into whatever you want if it fits. USB C is different though. In my case it would not work in my USB 2 ports, it would only work in the USB 3 port even thought the scanner is USB 2.

#5562 50 days ago
Quoted from Pindufus:

Hey Vid, or anyone out there. I picked up a HP 4670 Scanner but can't get the damn thing to work. My computer simply doesn't recognize the scanner when plugged into the USB port. I've downloaded all the drivers that will make this relic work on a newer machine. Still no recognition. I'm thinking it's a hardware issue and will be getting a refund.
I've tried the Magic Wand thing and you're correct. It simply isn't the right tool to get proper playfield scans.
Are you aware of any other flat bed scanners that are out there that would work for the purpose of getting proper playfield scans?
Thanks, lk

What operating system are you using? I have a Mac and unfortunately the software on the old HP scanners is so out of date it doesn’t work on macs anymore. I ended up buying a Doxie scanner which works off a memory card.

#5563 50 days ago

My operating system is Windows 10. And, yes, the scanner is powered on and when you're known as pindufus, that's probably a pretty good question.....

Tomds is correct. This HP scanner is so out of date that newer OS's don't have drivers that will make it work. HP does consider the scanner as out of date and has no updated drivers that will make it run. I've downloaded the driver from Windows Vista. The scanner worked with those drivers. I've also downloaded a specific driver from a third-party vendor that is made to run the 4670. So far, I've found and tried six suggested methods to fix the recognition problem. Zip. Nada. Nothing. That's what makes me think this is an hardware issue.

How do you like your Doxie? Isn't it too small?

#5564 50 days ago

When you power yours up, does it turn on the light and wiggle the scan bar a couple of times? That is what mine does. Also in Win10 I have no way to trigger a scan in the computer. I trigger it from the scanner and the first time it is connected it takes a good solid minute, long enough to convince me it is broken. Subsequent scans in that session start within seconds.

#5565 50 days ago

I have a Doxie, the fact that it is battery powered is very convenient.

If you are systematic abount scanning and overlap you can stitch large areas but not as convenient as the 4670 which I also have. But for convenience it can't be beat.

I am able to scan with the 4670 on Windows 10.

#5566 50 days ago
Quoted from BJM-Maxx:

Not sure what you mean, USB 3 is expressly intended to be backwardly compatible with USB 2, you can plug devices into whatever you want if it fits. USB C is different though. In my case it would not work in my USB 2 ports, it would only work in the USB 3 port even thought the scanner is USB 2.

Yeah you would think so, but we manage over 1000 devices and have seen it work both ways. It might depend on software, vendor etc.

#5567 50 days ago
Quoted from packie1:

Yeah you would think so, but we manage over 1000 devices and have seen it work both ways. It might depend on software, vendor etc.

I also have this scanner and it works on my laptop running win 7 64 bit using the original driver. I now have the scanner plugged into my win 10 64 bit ASUS and it uses the native Win 10 scanner driver. It scans to win 10 scan software, didn't load the HP driver. If you have can find a close pinsider with an HP scanner, maybe they can test your unit for you.

#5568 48 days ago

Hi,

Has anyone seen / used the "Playfield Insert Repair Discs" shown on this website?

If so, what were the results? If not, what are your thoughts?

http://www.oldpinballs.com/store.htm

#5569 48 days ago
Quoted from DropTarget:

Hi,
Has anyone seen / used the "Playfield Insert Repair Discs" shown on this website?
If so, what were the results? If not, what are your thoughts?
http://www.oldpinballs.com/store.htm

Haven't used them but looks like you start with smaller discs at the most sunken portion of insert and keep adding the larger diameter discs till the insert is level with playfield? Seems like a good, albeit temporary, fix to prevent further flaming of inserts or even prevent chipping of clear around improperly-filled inserts.

#5570 48 days ago

Both my laptop and desktop run Win10 64bit and both have no problem using the HP4670

For instance in Photoshop, FILE>IMPORT>WIA DEVICES>HP4670 and scan away.

#5571 48 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Both my laptop and desktop run Win10 64bit and both have no problem using the HP4670
For instance in Photoshop, FILE>IMPORT>WIA DEVICES>HP4670 and scan away.

+1

#5572 48 days ago

Probably won't work in latest version of Photoshop CC 2018. Apparently they have recently decided to eliminate scanning capability.
NAPS is pretty good.

#5573 47 days ago
Quoted from s2k4ary:

New Mylar

Looks awesome. Thanks for posting your mylar replacement photos and technique, very helpful

#5574 47 days ago
Quoted from vipe155:

What has happened to this insert, and can it be fixed?

76f1f28497172f3deae51c3373df16aca50f16b2 (resized).jpg

You can easily fix it.

1 (resized).jpg

Score the topcoat with sharp Xacto blade

Scrape off old topcoat with SHARP chisel held 90* to playfield.

11 (resized).jpg

Open up smaller fissures with Xacto blade

3 (resized).jpg

Sand with 800g, touch up Keyline wear with black, cover in 2pac.

4 (resized).jpg

#5575 45 days ago

Repairing my shooter lane. Bottom was badly chewed up. Sanded and filled. Avoided sanding the sides as much as possible. Trying to remove the least amount of wood possible. Picture shows where i stand right now.
20180306_080509-COLLAGE (resized).jpg .

Should i try to get better contact by building up the bottom and filling the gap or is this an acceptable fit and im just being picky?

#5576 45 days ago

As long as the ball stays centered in the lane, then you've got it right.

Think that some playfields are just a V-groove, with very little ball contact.

#5577 44 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can easily fix it.

Score the topcoat with sharp Xacto blade

Scrape off old topcoat with SHARP chisel held 90* to playfield.

Open up smaller fissures with Xacto blade

Sand with 800g, touch up Keyline wear with black, cover in 2pac.

Thank you for that. I haven't really gotten to that point yet, but what if I was thinking Mylar instead of clear? Would that be fine over the insert as well?

#5578 44 days ago

Just a quick question re black key lines, would you use waterslide decals for the black lines around the purple box in picture below? Could this be done with an airbrush and if so how?

B7537E20-FC80-4D77-98D8-391A230799F5 (resized).jpeg

#5579 43 days ago
Quoted from tomds:

Just a quick question re black key lines, would you use waterslide decals for the black lines around the purple box in picture below? Could this be done with an airbrush and if so how?

The black lines around the purple box look fine to me.
if you need to address the small lower right part , then using 2 pieces of pinstripe to define the black line and painting some black acrylic paint in the gap would do the trick. At least , that is what I do , with perfect results.
If you are referring to the circle keylines inside the purple box , then waterslide decals must be the way .

Charles

#5580 43 days ago
Quoted from vipe155:

Thank you for that. I haven't really gotten to that point yet, but what if I was thinking Mylar instead of clear? Would that be fine over the insert as well?

That ink is so unstable that I fear the Mylar will lift it completely from the insert.

#5581 43 days ago
Quoted from phototamer:

The black lines around the purple box look fine to me.
if you need to address the small lower right part , then using 2 pieces of pinstripe to define the black line and painting some black acrylic paint in the gap would do the trick. At least , that is what I do , with perfect results.
If you are referring to the circle keylines inside the purple box , then waterslide decals must be the way .
Charles

Seems to me like pinstripe tape would create a raised line that would affect the direction of a slow moving ball, or am I mistaken? I have been masking keylines and airbrushing them.

#5582 43 days ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Seems to me like pinstripe tape would create a raised line that would affect the direction of a slow moving ball, or am I mistaken? I have been masking keylines and airbrushing them.

You can use thick pinstripe as masking.

The super thin stuff can be cleared over.

#5583 43 days ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Seems to me like pinstripe tape would create a raised line that would affect the direction of a slow moving ball, or am I mistaken? I have been masking keylines and airbrushing them.

I am using Createx opaque black and no raised edge is left. If however you need to address a raised edge , then light sanding with a 600 grit sandpaper along the edges will remove any ridge.
This works very good with Createx paint after it is heat cured .

#5584 38 days ago

I mistakenly purchased Inkjet decal paper instead of Laserjet decal paper. Really didn't realize there was a difference. Will the Inkjet paper work OK for decal purposes?

Also, VID, you reference super thin paper. What do you consider super thin? My paper is 2 mils. Is that thin enough to clear over and still avoid raised edges?>

#5585 38 days ago
Quoted from Pindufus:

I mistakenly purchased Inkjet decal paper instead of Laserjet decal paper. Really didn't realize there was a difference. Will the Inkjet paper work OK for decal purposes?
Also, VID, you reference super thin paper. What do you consider super thin? My paper is 2 mils. Is that thin enough to clear over and still avoid raised edges?>

It depends on the brand and your ink. I use Lazertran inkjet paper with an epson r3000 shooting k3 ink. That's high end ink with a 100+ year archival stability. Your millage may vary with lower end ink/equipment.

#5586 38 days ago
Quoted from Pindufus:

I mistakenly purchased Inkjet decal paper instead of Laserjet decal paper. Really didn't realize there was a difference. Will the Inkjet paper work OK for decal purposes?

You can't use IJ paper in a laser.

It can melt to the fuser.

#5587 34 days ago

I would like to scan playfield. What is the recommended device in 2018?
I can't find HP or any other see-thru scanner anymore.

Thanks!

#5588 33 days ago

Is there a file sharing / repository for insert decals etc?

Say, if one was looking for Black Knight decals... they’re available somewhere I’m sure?

Any leads appreciated.

#5589 33 days ago
Quoted from Davi:

I would like to scan playfield. What is the recommended device in 2018?
I can't find HP or any other see-thru scanner anymore.
Thanks!

You can take it to a print shop that has a Cruse Scanner and do the whole playfield in a single scan, or find a HP and use photoshop to stitch the scans together

#5590 33 days ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Is there a file sharing / repository for insert decals etc?
Say, if one was looking for Black Knight decals... they’re available somewhere I’m sure?
Any leads appreciated.

They got pulled down by you know who.

Maybe find someone who got the Balls Of Steel website rip, or has a scan will contact you

#5591 33 days ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You can take it to a print shop that has a Cruse Scanner and do the whole playfield in a single scan, or find a HP and use photoshop to stitch the scans together

Thanks. Seems pinball community purchased all legacy HP - I would go for full scan.

#5592 33 days ago

What causes this discoloration in the center of the inserts? It's not a scratch (on the top side) as it doesn't "fill" with naphtha. So a assume no amount of sanding will remove it.

Is it stress?

Thanks for any info?

IMG_4446 (resized).JPG

IMG_4447 (resized).JPG

#5593 33 days ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

What causes this discoloration in the center of the inserts? It's not a scratch (on the top side) as it doesn't "fill" with naphtha.

Looks like ghosting, because the pattern follows the sanding grain.

Try scratching through the Shoot Again insert in the very center, then try the Naphtha again.

#5594 32 days ago

Hi,
I read through this excellent thread and cannot decided between 3 different approaches to repairing my insert. The three options that I am considering are as follows:
1) Use Plastic Surgery Glue and syringe to glue down existing clear
2) Remove the clear from the insert (since there are no graphics)
2) Use 2PAC and syringe to glue down existing clear
I plan on clear coating the playfield regardless of how I do this repair.
What would the recommended approach be and should I be considering another option?
Thanks,
Darin

RFM Lifting (resized).jpg

#5595 31 days ago
Quoted from dgarner:

Hi,
I read through this excellent thread and cannot decided between 3 different approaches to repairing my insert. The three options that I am considering are as follows:
1) Use Plastic Surgery Glue and syringe to glue down existing clear
2) Remove the clear from the insert (since there are no graphics)
2) Use 2PAC and syringe to glue down existing clear
I plan on clear coating the playfield regardless of how I do this repair.
What would the recommended approach be and should I be considering another option?
Thanks,
Darin

That insert is still moving, so epoxy it from behind before you start anything.

If the existing clear is cloudy, then syringe the 2pac under it to keep it looking cloudy

If the existing clear is clear, then just cut out the bad section and fill with 2pac.

#5596 30 days ago

Remove mylar and cleaned off the glue... Canned air worked like a champ....

Ready to move to the shop for 2pac... I'm using Matrix MS52....

20180321_112403 (resized).jpg

#5597 30 days ago

Hey Vid - how long do you let your final coat of 2pac cure before repopulating? I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere that repopulating too soon can allow the star posts and such to form depressions in the fresh clear. What's your experience/opinion?

#5598 30 days ago

I'm looking for scans of stern Stars and Meteor if anyone has them

#5599 29 days ago
Quoted from pinheadpierre:

Hey Vid - how long do you let your final coat of 2pac cure before repopulating? I seem to remember reading or hearing somewhere that repopulating too soon can allow the star posts and such to form depressions in the fresh clear. What's your experience/opinion?

I usually let it sit a month or two before polishing.

Not because it's not hard, but because of dieback/shrinkback.

#5600 28 days ago

One thing I am still curious about. How do you get the wax off?
If you carnuba wax a playfield and decide later that you want to do some paint touchup. Is it possible to ever get the wax off enough to paint?

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