Bobby Orr's Power Play
Bally, 1978
Gilligan's Island
Bally, 1991
Space Jam
Sega, 1996Quoted from sohchx:What based paint would I ask for that is safe to have 2k laid down over it and that can be airbrushed? I'm so used to using Createx on everything that I have no experience airbrushing any othrr types of paint on fields.
Look at Createx Auto Air. The line has a dark green.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:If the bottle in the picture is your starting point you'll never get there. The bottle of green in your picture is clearly a tint (contains white). The green on the playfield is a dark green on the bluish end of the spectrum. Try starting from scratch with primary colors using a warm yellow and a deep blue. The tinyest bit of a deep red on the blue side of the spectrum might be useful to push the color towards gray if need be.
Yes, that green is that I started with. These are the colors that I generally use to do every field that I have ever done.
Quoted from sohchx:What based paint would I ask for that is safe to have 2k laid down over it and that can be airbrushed? I'm so used to using Createx on everything that I have no experience airbrushing any othrr types of paint on fields.
I just get eggshell latex (or semi if they don't have their best quality paint in eggshell)
Hey Vid, quick question which seemed to make sense to post here as it may be helpful in general to clarify: I'm restoring my F-14 playfield, and have all the new inserts installed. It will get its initial clear layer this week, at which point the paint repairs start. My question is, can I save a step by doing the paint apps and the decal work both before the next clear coat, or is it definitely better to lock down the paint repairs in their own "layer" before moving on to decals? Of course I'm fine with doing it in separate stages, just didn't want to be doing that if it wasn't really necessary (seeing as I don't spray clear at home).
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Hey Vid, quick question which seemed to make sense to post here as it may be helpful in general to clarify: I'm restoring my F-14 playfield, and have all the new inserts installed. It will get its initial clear layer this week, at which point the paint repairs start. My question is, can I save a step by doing the paint apps and the decal work both before the next clear coat, or is it definitely better to lock down the paint repairs in their own "layer" before moving on to decals? Of course I'm fine with doing it in separate stages, just didn't want to be doing that if it wasn't really necessary (seeing as I don't spray clear at home).
NEW inserts? Where'd you get ahold of new F14 inserts?
All the decals I'm doing are going onto the inserts, not the paint. But, sounds like keeping the steps separate is the safest route, so I will plan to stick to that.
A mistake I will not make again: when installing inserts, the smaller arrows went in with no effort; the first few I did actually ended up with the wide end just a hair below the surface (easily filled with clear). Because of this, I didn't reckon there was any need to clamp those down while curing (unlike the large chevrons, which were a snug fit and needed pressure to go in evenly and stay put). Well, turns out a few of my clear arrows down by the flippers rose just a tad. Not a lot, and generally just on one side, but enough to raise concerns about eventual keyline wear. So, TAKE NOTE: things can move while the epoxy is curing! I wouldn't have thought so, but apparently it can happen. So clamping a block over *all* inserts while curing is a good idea.
I wanted to correct this if at all possible, of course. Using a heat gun, I warmed up the underside of the insert until the insert face felt hot to the touch (corresponds roughly with when the plywood underside starts to look toasty.) Quickly, while the epoxy is still gummed up from the heat, I clamped a small block directly on top of the insert. The epoxy isn't soft enough that you can press the insert down by hand; you have to clamp it down and leave it until things are cool again - the longer the better.
Vid showed us that 12" black C-clamp from Hazard Fraught Tools early in this guide. I went and bought one, and it is a good tool to have for installing the inserts. However, its construction doesn't allow for much pressure. For hard to reach spots, I used this Vise-grip style clamp made by Kreg tools. It applies lots of pressure even at a 12" reach and is saving my biscuits right now.
Of course, I'm just crossing my fingers that the inserts don't rise again once the clear goes on...
Question! I want to put new decals over these inserts on my FT boat PF. How can I remove the top layer of the insert? Razor blade? Scrape it off?
What do I have to do to prep my insert for new decal application?
Thx to any in advance for your superior knowledge!!
Use a *sharp* chisel, held at 90 degrees to the playfield. Use it as a scraper, pulling the flat backside toward you. Go slow, and use a narrow (1/2") chisel, nothing too wide as you don't want to scrape the paint around the insert. Shoot clear before applying the new decal; you want the decal to be in between 2 layers of clear coat.
Quoted from radium:OMG SO HAPPY! When the hell did this happen?? Thanks for the link!
I think they've been available for about a year or so (ironically, around the same time those nice reproduction playfields came out...)
You may be a bit less happy once you start down the endless path I'm on! 
OK, so...I went on eBay and bought myself one of those nifty HP Scanjet frame scanners - still in the box! Awesome!
Buuuuut.....the software is so old at this point, no Mac can run it. (It's Power PC, and OSX hasn't run that type of software in several generations.)
Would be GREAT if somebody had some sort of plugin/workaround...until I can find a solution, I've got myself a useless piece of landfill fodder. Argh, hate this kind of thing.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:OK, so...I went on eBay and bought myself one of those nifty HP Scanjet frame scanners - still in the box! Awesome!
Buuuuut.....the software is so old at this point, no Mac can run it. (It's Power PC, and OSX hasn't run that type of software in several generations.)
Would be GREAT if somebody had some sort of plugin/workaround...until I can find a solution, I've got myself a useless piece of landfill fodder. Argh, hate this kind of thing.
I bought a used laptop running Windows 7 on EBay for $40. I use it as a dedicated scanner machine.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:OK, so...I went on eBay and bought myself one of those nifty HP Scanjet frame scanners - still in the box! Awesome!
Buuuuut.....the software is so old at this point, no Mac can run it. (It's Power PC, and OSX hasn't run that type of software in several generations.)
Would be GREAT if somebody had some sort of plugin/workaround...until I can find a solution, I've got myself a useless piece of landfill fodder. Argh, hate this kind of thing.
I'll bet you that you can just use Preview to scan. I have a scanner that is over a decade old, and it is just instantly recognized in the "Import..." option in the File menu when the scanner is connected and has power to it. Give it a try; you will likely not need the proprietary software are all.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:OK, so...I went on eBay and bought myself one of those nifty HP Scanjet frame scanners - still in the box! Awesome!
Buuuuut.....the software is so old at this point, no Mac can run it. (It's Power PC, and OSX hasn't run that type of software in several generations.)
Would be GREAT if somebody had some sort of plugin/workaround...until I can find a solution, I've got myself a useless piece of landfill fodder. Argh, hate this kind of thing.
VueScan has loads of drivers built in for all kinds of weird scanners that aren't supported by main stream OSs anymore (like my Dad's old SCSI Epson Filmscan 200). There's a truckload of HP ScanJet's in the supported scanners list: https://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/vuescan.htm#hp
Quoted from La_Porta:I'll bet you that you can just use Preview to scan. I have a scanner that is over a decade old, and it is just instantly recognized in the "Import..." option in the File menu when the scanner is connected and has power to it. Give it a try; you will likely not need the proprietary software are all.
Sadly, didn't work.
Quoted from ajfclark:VueScan has loads of drivers built in for all kinds of weird scanners
Screen Shot 2018-02-05 at 10.06.12 PM (resized).png
Guess what scanner the HP site has no driver software for?
Quoted from sethbenjamin:OK, so...I went on eBay and bought myself one of those nifty HP Scanjet frame scanners - still in the box! Awesome!
Buuuuut.....the software is so old at this point, no Mac can run it. (It's Power PC, and OSX hasn't run that type of software in several generations.)
Would be GREAT if somebody had some sort of plugin/workaround...until I can find a solution, I've got myself a useless piece of landfill fodder. Argh, hate this kind of thing.
Vuesan doesn't work. I think the problem is that the scanner is TWAIN, and mac's don't support TWAIN anymore. Perhaps use an old mac maybe, something with Snow Leopard or earlier (I'm guessing at the OS that will work).
I use Parallels with the HP software. It's a pita, but it works.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Sadly, didn't work.
Guess what scanner the HP site has no driver software for?
Sorry about that. There are Windows drivers on there, but that doesn't help you. If you can drive a compiler, you might be able to get this Linux code to work: https://github.com/Triften/hp4600
There's a note on the SANE website:
About the 4670: "The scanner works on Mac OS X (10.3) with HP's supplied software, and so does Adobe Photoshop Elements (with a HP supplied plug-in), but Apple's "Image Capture" does not see it." Another owner of this scanner writes: "Upright scanner, heard it was almost identical to 4660."
Dang it all.
Just asked a techy friend for advice; he seemed to think just getting a cheap old Windows computer like pinheadpierre suggested is the path of least resistance.
One of these days I'm gonna team up with somebody at a graphic arts shop that has a big-ass scanner and just do a single, full scan of every playfield I work on...
Quoted from DropTarget:Vuesan doesn't work. I think the problem is that the scanner is TWAIN, and mac's don't support TWAIN anymore. Perhaps use an old mac maybe, something with Snow Leopard or earlier (I'm guessing at the OS that will work).
I use Parallels with the HP software. It's a pita, but it works.
I'd go this route...or Boot Camp if you can find a free/cheap Windows copy. What kind of Mac are you using?
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Vid showed us that 12" black C-clamp from Hazard Fraught Tools early in this guide. I went and bought one, and it is a good tool to have for installing the inserts. However, its construction doesn't allow for much pressure. For hard to reach spots, I used this Vise-grip style clamp made by Kreg tools. It applies lots of pressure even at a 12" reach and is saving my biscuits right now.
Of course, I'm just crossing my fingers that the inserts don't rise again once the clear goes on...
Do you happen to have a link to that handy tool? I also bought the 12" C-Clamps from Harbor Freight and after a few not even redoing just releveling the existing inserts on an F14 mine are totally bent and jacked from putting them under solid pressure.
Quoted from statictrance:Do you happen to have a link to that handy tool? I also bought the 12" C-Clamps from Harbor Freight and after a few not even redoing just releveling the existing inserts on an F14 mine are totally bent and jacked from putting them under solid pressure.
That looks like this one: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0011361PS/
Can probably find for less elsewhere.
Longer version as well although pic is wrong. https://www.amazon.com/Vise-Grip-24SP-24-Inch-Locking-Swivel/dp/B00004SBBB
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Sadly, didn't work.
Guess what scanner the HP site has no driver software for?
I don't understand, when I look at that page, I get a different result:
Screen Shot 2018-02-06 at 11.20.49 AM (resized).png
It still doesn't seem to work, though.
I use this scanner with Win10, just install the 64 bit Vista driver. You get really simplistic controls though which is fine for me. It takes a few tries the first time, but you trigger the scan from the device and it pops up an import window. You have to do whole page scans but you can set resolution.
I have no problem with Windows. It's just the Mac that creates this issue, as HP hasn't released any updated drivers for this since the mid-2000's. The only ones that I know exist are for PPC.
Quoted from jsa:It's just the Mac that creates this issue, as HP hasn't released any updated drivers for this since the mid-2000's. The only ones that I know exist are for PPC.
Exactly. Need to buy or borrow a PC just for this purpose. I'm *so* out of love with Apple computers at this point.
Quoted from statictrance:Do you happen to have a link to that handy tool? I also bought the 12" C-Clamps from Harbor Freight and after a few not even redoing just releveling the existing inserts on an F14 mine are totally bent and jacked from putting them under solid pressure.
The link BorgDog posted is good. Kreg's version has a larger swivel pad, which is nice for covering the back side of larger insert cutouts, but that's easily solved with a block of 3/4" ply underneath as well as above. I can't find a link to the Kreg clamp, possibly they stopped making that model. But the Irwin is otherwise identical and will do the job. Those large arrows take some significant pressure to seat; that HF c-clamp just can't apply the force you need.
Quoted from jsa:I have no problem with Windows. It's just the Mac that creates this issue, as HP hasn't released any updated drivers for this since the mid-2000's. The only ones that I know exist are for PPC.
Ah! Okay - sorry, I saw someone's post about Win10 drivers, and I knew I had it working on my laptop.
Pardon the interruption! 
Quoted from jsa:I have no problem with Windows. It's just the Mac that creates this issue, as HP hasn't released any updated drivers for this since the mid-2000's. The only ones that I know exist are for PPC.
How about VirtualBox? You can run whatever old Windows version as the guest and scan into a shared folder.
Quoted from radium:How about VirtualBox? You can run whatever old Windows version as the guest and scan into a shared folder.
That works, but it doesn't solve my issue around scanning right into my Photoshop application, which has advantages. This is really not a deal killer for me, I can scan files into tiff format on Windows, move to mac, deal with them in Photoshop. It's just takes me twice as long.
Quoted from jsa:That works, but it doesn't solve my issue around scanning right into my Photoshop application, which has advantages. This is really not a deal killer for me, I can scan files into tiff format on Windows, move to mac, deal with them in Photoshop. It's just takes me twice as long.
that's what I've been doing. I'm not sure, but there might be a photoshop plug in, although I doubt it.
I scan in Windows using parallels, then drag and drop the scans to my mac desktop and import in to photoshop. It does take extra time, but considering how long it could take to touch up the images, it becomes a small percentage of the total time spent.
Vid,
I see a while ago you posted a link for the HP4670 Windows 10 driver. That link is no good now and HP isn't making the driver available anymore. Do you happen to have the driver file?
Quoted from DropTarget:Vid,
I see a while ago you posted a link for the HP4670 Windows 10 driver. That link is no good now and HP isn't making the driver available anymore. Do you happen to have the driver file?
Might want to fire this off into Vid's restoration thread.
Have a completely depopulated Grand Prix pf. Only thing left to remove are the fin shank bolts for the pops and the flippers. Will be repainting and clearing this pf. Most bolts are well set and sit flush with the pf surface. However, a few were likely torqued too hard and their head has crushed through the veneer and is now sitting below the pf surface. Here is a picture showing both cases:
IMG_20180210_180717 (resized).jpg
1) for those are that are set properly, should I leave them as is and clear over them or should I remove them and reinstall after clearing?
2) for those that are sitting shy of the surface, I beleive I should remove them and remove any loose wood and veneer. I would then fill with Bondo, redrill, paint and clear. Is that the right way to proceed?
3) in regards to prepping the hole to receive the fin shank screw head, most references I see mention countersinking which produces a conical hole. However, the underside of these screws is flat. Should we not be counterboring instead which produces a flat bottom hole? And should the countersink/bore be done before or after clearing?
Here is an other defect I need to fix.
Have a look at the vertical line on the following pics.
IMG_20180210_180821 (resized).jpg
IMG_20180210_180832 (resized).jpg
Seems to me like its the veneer that is split. Runs the whole lenght of the pf. As mentioned in my previous post, I'll be completely painting and clearing this pf. I don't think I should simply paint and clear over this split. Afraid the crack would eventually just propagate up through the new coatings. Veneer on either side of the crack could curl up or something.
Any suggestions on how to deal with this?
Excuse me if this has been covered before....
Is there a way to level inserts without clear coating the entire pf?
Quoted from Fred736:1) for those are that are set properly, should I leave them as is and clear over them or should I remove them and reinstall after clearing?
Remove them all (tap out with a hammer), repair any damage, restore the countersink holes.
Quoted from Fred736:Here is an other defect I need to fix.
Have a look at the vertical line on the following pics.Seems to me like its the veneer that is split. Runs the whole lenght of the pf. As mentioned in my previous post, I'll be completely painting and clearing this pf. I don't think I should simply paint and clear over this split. Afraid the crack would eventually just propagate up through the new coatings. Veneer on either side of the crack could curl up or something.
Any suggestions on how to deal with this?
Do a little exploratory surgery near the top, far from the player.
Using a straight-edge, you can cut the tiny amount of loose material along that joint out with a razor knife.
Your trench will probably end up being V shaped.
Fill the trench with 2PAC, and repaint.
Where the wood is natural finish, you will have to carefully tone the wood before filling it with clear.
Quoted from DropTarget:Excuse me if this has been covered before....
Is there a way to level inserts without clear coating the entire pf?
Thanks Vid,
I just concerned about the 2pac running too far over the edge of the insert and on to the play field itself.
That was my experience when filling the Mini Pool inserts. Of course that wasn't too much of an issue, since the whole pf was being cc'd.
Quoted from DropTarget:I see a while ago you posted a link for the HP4670 Windows 10 driver. That link is no good now and HP isn't making the driver available anymore. Do you happen to have the driver file?
What was the link? Currently I have an HP4600 and luckily I have an old netbook with Windows XP on it that I can use but I'm curious about drivers for newer Windows versions.
https://www.driverguide.com/driver/detail.php?driverid=1380882
I think this is the Vista driver for the 4600 series scanners.
Quoted from PinballFever:What was the link? Currently I have an HP4600 and luckily I have an old netbook with Windows XP on it that I can use but I'm curious about drivers for newer Windows versions.
I'm using XP with the HP software and it works. I'll see if I can find the files for you.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Does anyone have scans of a PinBot playfield? I'm currently restoring one, and the outlane insert lettering has yellowed, as these were not covered with mylar. Also some worn art will be easier to restore with waterslides off a scan than trying to repaint.
Covered the same issue here:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinbot-restoration-underway/page/3#post-3803668
Pm me, I can find the font I used for you.
Working on the clear coat prep for my tiki retheme where I totally redid all of the artwork on the playfield. There is a *lot* more texture than normal because I laminated sugar cane fiber paper on top of the original playfiled, and then hand painted the designs so it resembles Polynesian [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapa_cloth/]tapa cloth[/url] artwork. Right now I'm building up to a flat surface using water based gloss floor polyurethane, and using my heated vacuum press at work to cure it before each sanding pass. It's been working well so far, I've been getting good buildup that sands cleanly, and each layer is bonding tightly and clearly to the previous layers.
Our shop vacuum press, just ran the playfield through to bake it at 200 degrees for 10 minutes at the full vacuum pressure.
27993268_2067099913330683_3350105370373684529_o (resized).jpg
1/2 of the playfield sanded at 120 grit.
28169775_2068957849811556_1907519950_o (resized).jpg
All sanding done on the first pass.
27744419_2068957833144891_1613561760_o (resized).jpg
Second round of clearcoat buldiup started.
28053699_2068967149810626_859622737_n (resized).jpg
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/110?hl=ajfclark and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Ottawa, ON
Sana'a
Greenfield, MA