Bobby Orr's Power Play
Bally, 1978
Gilligan's Island
Bally, 1991
Space Jam
Sega, 1996While it's not been repopulated yet, and being an amateur with Createx and airbrushing, here is a before/ after of an SBM I'm working on.
I did notice the blue used dried darker than when wet, but since my pf either got new paint or new decals, it didn't bug me.
This would not have been undertaken by my w/o this thread by Vid and input from others!
Quoted from Atari_Daze:While it's not been repopulated yet, and being an amateur with Createx and airbrushing, here is a before/ after of an SBM I'm working on.
I did notice the blue used dried darker than when wet, but since my pf either got new paint or new decals, it didn't bug me.
This would not have been undertaken by my w/o this thread by Vid and input from others!
Excellent job! Looks fantastic!
Quoted from arolden:Well, I was thrown off because Vid recommended Createx specifically because it did not change colour when dry.
Is Createx still recommended at all for playfield repairs? If it does not dry the same colour, I cannot think of a reason to use it over other good quality water-based paints.
Generally, the opaque Createx colors match really well the wet shades, especially when clearcoated.
If you mix them with other Createx colors, you obviously loose some of that "drying same shade" ability.
Another great brand is Jacquard. They dry almost as well as Createx, and they have a nice, bright Orange that Createx lacks.
There are many other cheaper brands, but they fade fast, so in a few years all your careful touchups stand out like a sore thumb.
I've not found any brand that drys closer to the wet shades than Createx.
liquitex is very high quality and resists fading very well. Changing when drying tho, there is some variation, and if you don't use them all the time, it will be a big learning curve to get used to.
I have just finished going through this Jokerz which is now 100% on the game play. I have a new upper playfield coming and will keep my eye out for some of the other ramps (minor cracks but still very usable).
My Question: Besides some worn out insert decals the playfield overall is in great shape. What are some recommendations that I can do to repair the area around the bridge? I am not looking for a complete restoration at this point but this does deflect the ball during play....
just for the record. If the inserts are printed by the factory, they are not decals.
Decals are a sticker. A sticker people buy from wherever, when they are trying to replace the art that wore off. That's the only time your playfield has a "decal".
Other than that, it's insert art. Printed ink, just like your entire playfield. No stickers involved. Stickers are decals. Decals are stickers.
Sorry if this is been asked before... but what's the best way to repair raised inserts? I have a bunch of them on my F-14 Firepower. Would I need to remove the mylar? Thank you
Quoted from vid1900:Generally, the opaque Createx colors match really well the wet shades, especially when clearcoated.
If you mix them with other colors, you obviously loose some of that matching.
Another great brand is Jacquard. They dry almost as well as Createx, and they have a nice, bright Orange that Createx lacks.
There are many other cheaper brands, but they fade fast, so in a few years all your careful touchups stand out like a sore thumb.
I've not found any brand that drys closer to the wet shades than Createx.
Quoted from CaptainNeo:liquitex is very high quality and resists fading very well. Changing when drying tho, there is some variation, and if you don't use them all the time, it will be a big learning curve to get used to.
Thanks for the recommendations. I might try the others out when my current Createx paints are used up.
I am in the process of restoring my Fast Draw . some of the inserts have gaps , and some others are pretty ugly around the keylines. restoring the keylines is not so easy due to the uneven surface and exposed wood around the inserts.
Should I shoot my first layer of clear and then fix/decal the keylines , or is there an advantage in redrawing the keylines before clearing.
Thank you
Wood pieces are discolored on my C37 on sides of playfield (doesn't look like it was ever cleaned). Second pic is of my Volley which had clean wood.
How do I get my C37 wood as clean as my Volley?
What causes this wood discoloration? Just coil dust? If so, why doesn't it vacuum off?
(Thanks)
Quoted from phototamer:I am in the process of restoring my Fast Draw . some of the inserts have gaps , and some others are pretty ugly around the keylines. restoring the keylines is not so easy due to the uneven surface and exposed wood around the inserts.
Should I shoot my first layer of clear and then fix/decal the keylines , or is there an advantage in redrawing the keylines before clearing.
Thank you
Every playfield is different, but I generally fill the valleys around inserts, and touch up the keylines before clearing.
Always fill cupped inserts first, then do your lockdown coat of clear.
Quoted from spinal:Wood pieces are discolored on my C37 on sides of playfield (doesn't look like it was ever cleaned). Second pic is of my Volley which had clean wood.
How do I get my C37 wood as clean as my Volley?
What causes this wood discoloration? Just coil dust? If so, why doesn't it vacuum off?
The wood of the playfield rails is no longer sealed.
Dust and filth are in the wood itself.
I'd remove those rails, sand them down to clean wood, and seal with poly or lacquer
Lacquer is a good choice because you can tone the wood so it does not look too fresh.
Quoted from vid1900:Every playfield is different, but I generally fill the valleys around inserts, and touch up the keylines before clearing.
Always fill cupped inserts first, then do your lockdown coat of clear.
Should I fill them with clear , even if I clear coat the whole playfield after 2 months or so ?
Quoted from vid1900:The wood of the playfield rails is no longer sealed.
Dust and filth are in the wood itself.
I'd remove those rails, sand them down to clean wood, and seal with poly or lacquer
Lacquer is a good choice because you can tone the wood so it does not look too fresh.
Is it good practice to seal them in general? Of course, I didn't seal mine that I just installed...
Quoted from La_Porta:Is it good practice to seal them in general? Of course, I didn't seal mine that I just installed...
Sealing wood is good.
Keeps coil dust from invading the grain and it looking trashy, and makes the wood more stable.
Quoted from phototamer:Should I fill them with clear , even if I clear coat the whole playfield after 2 months or so ?
Yes.
I've filled a few inserts in playfields that the owner did not want to be cleared, but they needed to be filled or the game was unplayable.
Quoted from johnrezz:What are some recommendations that I can do to repair the area around the bridge? I am not looking for a complete restoration at this point but this does deflect the ball during play....
I'd cut back the loose Mylar with an Xacto blade, then wax the repair area, then cut a few Mylar scraps to replace what has been removed.
That should hold you until you do a restoration.
Quoted from vid1900:The wood of the playfield rails is no longer sealed.
Dust and filth are in the wood itself.
I'd remove those rails, sand them down to clean wood, and seal with poly or lacquer
Lacquer is a good choice because you can tone the wood so it does not look too fresh.
Sounds good thanks!
So what lacquer do you recommend? By "tone the wood" do you mean do another process or pick a color of lacquer?
Quoted from spinal:Sounds good thanks!
So what lacquer do you recommend? By "tone the wood" do you mean do another process or pick a color of lacquer?
I use lacquer dry flakes dissolved in 96 percent alcohol, or IPA ( isopropyl alcohol ) (about 1 part flakes to 4 parts alcohol ) and get the desired tone by repeating passes of the mixture on the wood surface .
Quoted from CaptainNeo:just for the record. If the inserts are printed by the factory, they are not decals.
Decals are a sticker. A sticker people buy from wherever, when they are trying to replace the art that wore off. That's the only time your playfield has a "decal".
Other than that, it's insert art. Printed ink, just like your entire playfield. No stickers involved. Stickers are decals. Decals are stickers.
Hi Captain...
Just a question, why using decals when you can avoid?
Often painting with stencils (cutting bot cameo...) is more durable... Not maybe the simplest but the noblest... As painting is the rule for restoring the artwork why not for inserts?
One exception still... The dot frameworks on the playfield... Really a pain to envisage it through stencils... And then of course, making a decal is better...
Your position?
Quoted from vid1900:Sealing wood is good.
Keeps coil dust from invading the grain and it looking trashy, and makes the wood more stable.
Guess I’ll hit the blue tape and polycryllic!
Quoted from arolden:I am getting frustrated as they do not dry the same colour as when first applied.
It took me three weeks to get the colors right on a Williams backglass.
(the flesh tone was a B$tch to match) I had to make the color a lighter shade
than what was visible and let it dry. It took me about sixty tries to get that color nailed.
Quoted from vid1900:Take the rails off and do all six sides.
That would be the best plan, of course. One issue: one screw head sheared off underneath the play field...how the heck am I supposed to get that thing out??
Quoted from La_Porta:That would be the best plan, of course. One issue: one screw head sheared off underneath the play field...how the heck am I supposed to get that thing out??
Quoted from Leveeger:Hi Captain...
Just a question, why using decals when you can avoid?
Often painting with stencils (cutting bot cameo...) is more durable... Not maybe the simplest but the noblest... As painting is the rule for restoring the artwork why not for inserts?
One exception still... The dot frameworks on the playfield... Really a pain to envisage it through stencils... And then of course, making a decal is better...
Your position?
Time and money. If i had to make stencils for every insert that has text for every playfield I work on. The cost would be double and the amount of time to restore a field would be drastically higher.
Quoted from scampcamp:I have two cabinets that have planking damage (F14 & Firepower). I was going to order a stencil kit for both.
How would you prepare the the cabinets? Thank you
Sand, skim coat with Bondo, sand, prime, stencil.
Wow, that's unbelievably cool! I assume then fill with wood putty and re-drill a new hole. How does one re-create the recessed space for the heads to sit flush on the underside?
Quoted from La_Porta:Wow, that's unbelievably cool! I assume then fill with wood putty and re-drill a new hole. How does one re-create the recessed space for the heads to sit flush on the underside?
With a countersink bit.
Quoted from La_Porta:I assume then fill with wood putty and re-drill
My guess would be with a piece of dowel.
Quoted from ajfclark:With a counter sink bit.
Bumping this to see if anyone has an opinion..
Quoted from johnrezz:I have just finished going through this Jokerz which is now 100% on the game play. I have a new upper playfield coming and will keep my eye out for some of the other ramps (minor cracks but still very usable).
My Question: Besides some worn out insert decals the playfield overall is in great shape. What are some recommendations that I can do to repair the area around the bridge? I am not looking for a complete restoration at this point but this does deflect the ball during play....
I was thinking of trying this product (or similar transfer tape) for masking (frisket). If someone knows better I'd really appreciated it.
https://www.amazon.com/Vinyl-Ease-Application-Transfer-Silhouette/dp/B008CEQR26/
The recommended product is out-of-stock (once in cart):
http://www.tcpglobal.com/KUS-CMF1230.html#.U-aPOWMa1dg
Here is my practice project. Very flaky. Formerly a "parts machine" that lived in MN garage temps.
Quoted from vec-tor:It took me three weeks to get the colors right on a Williams backglass.
(the flesh tone was a B$tch to match) I had to make the color a lighter shade
than what was visible and let it dry. It took me about sixty tries to get that color nailed.
Yep, I know what you mean. Going on a few days trying to get the right shade of green for my Tee'd Off. Almost there, though. It's just annoying to have to adjust to the change in colour.
Quoted from twenty6point2:Many have your experience with Createx colors.
On the flip side, that's not the only pro listed for these paints. Shooting and covering well (lots of pigment), being able to fix mistakes before heat setting, and knowing it interacts well with clear coats.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/2#post-629391
Seems Createx may have changed their formula somewhat from when Vid first wrote about them.
It's OK - I had to figure out on the fly that my grey was gonna dry down a LOT darker than what I mixed it at. Remember, these paints dry FAST when heated, so come up with a mix ratio (and write it down!) which is lighter than you intend to end up with, use a small brush to spread some onto a thin bit of plastic or glass, hit it with a hairdryer and see how close you get. It'll take some trial and error, just like the whole rest of the process, but it can be done. Might be something to mention in Vid's original post?
They're still excellent paints, the ease of mixing colors and the coverage you get shouldn't be undervalued.
Quoted from johnrezz:Bumping this to see if anyone has an opinion..
If it were mine, I'd plan to strip down the playfield entirely before installing that new upper playfield, get the playfield clearcoated, then do a nice repainting job on the blue areas/re-establish the keylining, etc. If the game has mylar...well, I know you *said* you didn't want to get into a full restoration...
On the other hand if the game is otherwise in very good shape you could mylar over the rough area as a temporary measure (mylar probably not a bad idea even if you clear it), play and enjoy the game knowing you aren't making the worn areas worse, and you always have the option of a restoration down the line sometime.
Quoted from La_Porta:Wow, that's unbelievably cool! I assume then fill with wood putty and re-drill a new hole. How does one re-create the recessed space for the heads to sit flush on the underside?
Professional cabinetmaker speaking: You want a plug cutter. Not a countersink. A countersink is for creating a pre-drill and recess for a screw and screw head. Boring out a broken screw is a completely different operation.
http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/Page.aspx?p=32320&cat=1,180
You put the cutter into a drill press, carve into a wood block, pop out the plug. The cutter produces a plug which is slightly tapered, so that as you tap it into the hole it seats tightly, creating a decent glue bond. You clean off the extra length with a sharp chisel. I use this method on leaf hinges if one of those tiny screws shears off. It's a pain in the ass (time consuming), but really the only workaround there is.
A word about using those screw extractors: you need to use a wood block as a guide. If you try to just cut into the area around a screw with one of those things chucked into a drill and no way to guide it, it'll get ugly fast! Bore a hole the diameter of the screw extractor into a piece of plywood, which you can clamp in place over the spot you need to bore into. Now you can make a clean, controlled cut - crucial to being able to plug the hole in the next step.
I would add to this, it really is best *not to have to extract a broken screw in the first place*. Always, ALWAYS pre-drill where you are going to drive a screw. If you are driving a screw and it starts to feel like a struggle, STOP. Back out the screw and pre-drill with the next size drill bit. These sorts of wood repairs will work, but it's always preferable not to have to resort to them. Be mindful and take your time. If you don't have the right bit, go to the hardware store and get it. If it's 1 AM and the store is closed, Pinball Karma is telling you to stop for the day. 
I was only answering the latter part of his question "How does one re-create the recessed space for the heads to sit flush on the underside?" for which a countersink bit is the correct tool, right?
Quoted from ajfclark:I was only answering the latter part of his question "How does one re-create the recessed space for the heads to sit flush on the underside?" for which a countersink bit is the correct tool, right?
Yeah, sorry, wasn't intending to shout down your advice.
If you need to install a wood screw and want it to sit flush with or just under the surface, a countersink is the go-to. Like standard drill bits, they vary in size according to screw diameter and head size. I find that the ones you find in hardware stores rarely offer more than the standard #6, #8, and #10 wood screw varieties, with a countersink for the standard deck screw sized head. But for installing new wood rails, a DeWalt #6 such as you can find at Home Depot will probably fit the bill fine.
One day I'll team up with Vid and he can put some all-caps-with-arrows captions on photos of my plug cutting tutorial...
ACE has the 3 piece DeWalt countersink bit set for $9.99 this week
Great stocking stuffer instead of another set of brown sox that you will never wear.
@vid1900, so here's my Future Spa. According to the person I purchased this from, the playfield was a "NOS Assembly," meaning the playfield was swapped with a completely new assembled playfield with mechanicals and plastics. It does look great.
There isn't 40 years of chemicals and wax and ball trails in it, which is great. However, I've noticed the inserts are cupped, and the surface of the playfield seems to have some ribbing of the wood grain showing, which I assume is normal.
Right now, my plan is to wax it properly and play on it a while, but I will be restoring the cabinet next year. Since the paint is pretty much perfect, do you recommend a clear coat process for this playfield before we play on it too much?
Quoted from jsa:Right now, my plan is to wax it properly and play on it a while, but I will be restoring the cabinet next year. Since the paint is pretty much perfect, do you recommend a clear coat process for this playfield before we play on it too much?
I believe his answer will be yes. Something along the lines of the old paint no longer being flexible as it has dried longer and hence will crack and flake more easily than it would've when new.
Ah, here's the post I was thinking of: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/104#post-4075414
Also see:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/17#post-1717655
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/18#post-1739707
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/65#post-3197203
Or you could refine the thread to vid's posts and search for NOS. There's only 8 pages to go through then: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/1?tu=vid1900
Quoted from jsa:so here's my Future Spa. According to the person I purchased this from, the playfield was a "NOS Assembly," meaning the playfield was swapped with a completely new assembled playfield with mechanicals and plastics.
Yep, it's great to find those populated playfields still in the Bally Crate!
That thing looks amazing.
Quoted from jsa:However, I've noticed the inserts are cupped, and the surface of the playfield seems to have some ribbing of the wood grain showing, which I assume is normal.
All that old, hard paint is going to quickly chip from around the inserts, and the peaks of the woodgrain.
Quoted from jsa:Since the paint is pretty much perfect, do you recommend a clear coat process for this playfield before we play on it too much?
I would not even play it, if it were mine.
It's too nice to tear up.
I'd clear it and then you will have one of the nicest FS in the world.
Quoted from vid1900:Yep, it's great to find those populated playfields still in the Bally Crate!
That thing looks amazing.
Thanks, I’m proud of it. The cabinet is going to be my first painted restoration (meaning stencils, not decals) as it needs it. I’m an amateur with paint but it looks like a good first project.
Quoted from vid1900:I would not even play it, if it were mine.
It's too nice to tear up.
I'd clear it and then you will have one of the nicest FS in the world.
That’s what I’m thinking... but I feel compelled to have it professionally cleared/restored because I’ve never shot 2PAC in my life. I’m going to do it for the cab, but that’s more forgiving. Should I just man up and do it myself?
NOS fields all cup if the inserts are big enough. I've done a ton of paragon NOS fields for people and all were cupped bad. Just the design of the insert and the type of plastic it's made of. Nothing really can be done about it. but when you clearcoat it. Fill the cups with clear, and it will play like a sheet of glass.
Hi all,
As per Vid's recommendations for polishing an em pf, I just buffed and polished my Mini Pool.
Afterwards, all I could do was stand and stare at it. I think I mumbled some exclamations which shall not be repeated here! I can even almost overlook the mistakes that I made during the process so far, although one of them is really bugging me. It does look great though. Thank you for all of the help and encouragement.
I do have a few questions, the first has been answered in the topic, but I've seen conflicting thoughts. When do you suggest waxing? Obviously I want to wax before populating the pf. I've seen some people that say wax after polishing, and others that say wait a few weeks for outgassing. The shop that shot the clear says tells their customers that it's safe to wax almost right away as they use an oven to cure the 2pac.
Another question is, and I'm sure this has been answered to, and I'm sure that I bookmarked the page, but my computer crashed and I lost a bunch of info, how to reinstall metal ball guides.
Yet one more question......Vid, when do you have time for anything else? You have so many topics on Pinside, and are responsive to all of them. I'm sure I speak for the community when I say thank you.
-W
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