Bobby Orr's Power Play
Bally, 1978
Gilligan's Island
Bally, 1991
Space Jam
Sega, 1996Hey vid I wanted to put some epoxy on the underside of some insects to keep them from moving look at these. Do you think this is factory or did someone do a really terrible job at it already? Either way should I scrape that out first?
Quoted from DropTarget:Harbor freight HVLP gun on sale until 10/31 $9.99
That’s a sweet deal. HF always has awesome stuff.
Quoted from La_Porta:That’s a sweet deal. HF always has awesome stuff.
I don't need one, but may buy it anyway.
Quoted from Pinball-Pat:My first question is how to paint the black around the stars.
I'd scan it, paint it all black and repaint the stars by hand.
Quoted from jwilson:I'd scan it, paint it all black and repaint the stars by hand.
This is what I'm leaning towards. They really wouldn't be to tricky to get close.
Well so far my playfield restoration has been a complete disaster. The yellow didn’t turn out too badly, but I think I have the worlds worse frisket. No matter how careful I am it just pulls up paint and lacquer. I’ve chucked it in the bin now... I’m wondering if this can be saved? I was thinking about clearing it again and trying to find some low tac alternative...
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Quoted from tomds:No matter how careful I am it just pulls up paint and lacquer.
You should always seal up the old paint with a thin coat of clear before you start. It's usually too fragile to put tape or frisket on it otherwise.
Quoted from tomds:Well so far my playfield restoration has been a complete disaster.
This might be your only solution...
Goodbye perfectly good artwork
Hopefully that mold doesn't go too deep and can be sanded! I have complete scans of the playfield if you want.
Quoted from tomds:Unfortunately I did have a thin coat of clear (2-pac auto lacquer) applied prior to painting the yellow. The frisket has just pulled it up in chunks.
Try pulling the Frisket back against itself, not upwards.
You can also warm the frisket with a hair dryer.
If worst comes to worst, lay down a thicker coat of clear.
i think the problem is, that playfield has major water damage. the wood itself might still be moist and thats why your clear isn't sticking 100%.
Quoted from jwilson:I'd scan it, paint it all black and repaint the stars by hand.
What is the purpose of the scan? Is it just for reference later to paint the stars in, or would you waterslide or something?
... and one more question.
I'm pretty terrible at matching colors, have you found any brands of paint that a paint store would carry such as Benjamin Moore, that work for pf restorations? The stores are able to color match using a spectrometer. I use them to match my cabinet work, and, for the most part, have been pleased with the results, but PFs are a different animal.
Filled inserts today,
screwed up a little bit, but nothing that can't be fixed after the 2pac cures.
It smells like an auto body shop in here. I like it! Hey, why am I so dizzy? 
Quoted from DropTarget:... and one more question.
I'm pretty terrible at matching colors, have you found any brands of paint that a paint store would carry such as Benjamin Moore, that work for pf restorations? The stores are able to color match using a spectrometer. I use them to match my cabinet work, and, for the most part, have been pleased with the results, but PFs are a different animal.
You'd have to figure out a way to get the playfield color to the spectrometer. Then you'll end up having to buy relatively large quantities. And the paint may not be the same quality you get from high-end acrylic.
I'm very bad with color matching and I found you can get guidance from online mixing tools or phone apps. Something like this http://trycolors.com. Take a picture of the color in daylight and use an app to get the RGB color code.
Quoted from lb1:You'd have to figure out a way to get the playfield color to the spectrometer. Then you'll end up having to buy relatively large quantities. And the paint may not be the same quality you get from high-end acrylic.
I'm very bad with color matching and I found you can get guidance from online mixing tools or phone apps. Something like this http://trycolors.com. Take a picture of the color in daylight and use an app to get the RGB color code.
Thanks,
I used photoshop to color pick from a scan of my PF to get the HEX #, or RGB breakdown, then used trycolors, but all the formulas come up with cyan and magenta, not RGB.
I haven't attempted to mix the colors for this project yet, I MAY get lucky and get close, just want to have something in my back pocket.
I also have Pantone chips to get me close.
Quoted from DropTarget:Thanks,
I used photoshop to color pick from a scan of my PF to get the HEX #, or RGB breakdown, then used trycolors, but all the formulas come up with cyan and magenta, not RGB.
I haven't attempted to mix the colors for this project yet, I MAY get lucky and get close, just want to have something in my back pocket.
RGB is used for things that emit light. LEDs, TVs/Displays, etc. (Red & Green = Yellow)
CMYK is used for printed media - i.e. Things that reflect light. (Yellow & Magenta = Red)
So yeah, you'll need to convert between the two to get a good color.
Quoted from Coyote:RGB is used for things that emit light. LEDs, TVs/Displays, etc. (Red & Green = Yellow)
CMYK is used for printed media - i.e. Things that reflect light. (Yellow & Magenta = Red)
So yeah, you'll need to convert between the two to get a good color.
Would be nice if Createx made C and M. Like they told me, they're working on it.
Golden High Flow (https://www.goldenpaints.com/products/colors/high-flow) have colors that are very close to Cyan and Magenta. There're Teal and Fluorescent pink.
Quoted from lb1:Golden High Flow (https://www.goldenpaints.com/products/colors/high-flow) have colors that are very close to Cyan and Magenta. There're Teal and Fluorescent pink.
I know that I have posted this before in this thread but I have had nothing but good results with Golden airbrush paints and they have a color match program that I use all the time for good results.
"Try the golden paints website. They have a virtual paint mixer which will let you upload an image to pick colors. http://www.goldenpaints.com/mixer
Make sure after you pick a color out of your image to select the fluid colors as those are the airbrush colors. Now when I say air brush colors, I am saying that these colors are thinner and work well in an airbrush.
I know it will show their paints but it can be a good guide to help you mix a close match."
TO be honest, when the clear was down, I kept mixing and trying, mixing a little more and trying again, etc...add a little red, add a little blue...all until I had it right. It took an hour or more sometimes for me to get the color right. All done with Createx.
Great info. Thank you.
My insert fills have hardened. This is the first time I've used 2pac. I'm really impressed so far as the last time I tried to fill inserts, I used all sorts of other products, none of which worked. I got so frustrated that I traded the machine and took a hit just to get it out of my sight.
Of course had I used 2pac, it probably still would not have worked out since we did not have Vid1900's insights back then.
So, once again. Thank you.
Ok, so here's how I screwed up my inserts, sort of.
1) I overfilled them, and some 2pac ran onto adjacent areas of the playfield 2) then while correcting minor imperfections, I dripped more clear on to the already partially cured inserts. those drops did not level out, but pretty much stayed as droplets.
My question is, what's the better way to proceed before adding artwork. Should I sand down the raised spots now and risk sanding off some paint, then add the lock down coat or is it better to spray the lock down layer, then sand the raised areas before adding the art?
TIA
-W
Quoted from DropTarget:Vid1900,
Have you had experience in using two different brands of 2pac on the same machine?
I have repaired other's work, so probably many times.
I have also used real Diamondplate to give that milky Williams look, and that worked fine with the underlying PPG 2Pac.
Quoted from DropTarget:... and one more question.
I'm pretty terrible at matching colors, have you found any brands of paint that a paint store would carry such as Benjamin Moore, that work for pf restorations? The stores are able to color match using a spectrometer. I use them to match my cabinet work, and, for the most part, have been pleased with the results, but PFs are a different animal.
I use the HW store to match many of the cab colors. Much easier to let the computer do it than to mix by hand.
Choose Exterior latex, so your colors will be less likely to fade over the years.
Always buy the most expensive HW store paints, the cheap stuff does not cover.
Quoted from lb1:You'd have to figure out a way to get the playfield color to the spectrometer.
Just take the whole playfield into the store. They need about a dime-sized sample to read it.
I take pinball cabs or heads in on a dolly and nobody even looks twice.
Quoted from lb1:Then you'll end up having to buy relatively large quantities.
The smallest size they'll mix at my store is a quart. So that makes sense for cabs, less so for a tiny area of a playfield.
Quoted from DropTarget:Ok, so here's how I screwed up my inserts, sort of.
1) I overfilled them, and some 2pac ran onto adjacent areas of the playfield 2) then while correcting minor imperfections, I dripped more clear on to the already partially cured inserts. those drops did not level out, but pretty much stayed as droplets.
My question is, what's the better way to proceed before adding artwork. Should I sand down the raised spots now and risk sanding off some paint, then add the lock down coat or is it better to spray the lock down layer, then sand the raised areas before adding the art?
None of that is any worry, believe it or not.
If you are needing to paint or decal the filled inserts, tape off the surrounding area with Blue Painters Tape, and sand the clear with 220, then 400, then 800. Don't scratch the surrounding playfield, if you tear the tape, put a new piece over the tear.
If you don't need to do any paint work on the inserts, then just leave them alone and continue your paint work.
Shoot your next layer of clear, and flatten your inserts at the same time you flatten the clear layer.
Quoted from vid1900:I use the HW store to match many of the cab colors. Much easier to let the computer do it than to mix by hand.
Choose Exterior latex, so your colors will be less likely to fade over the years.
Always buy the most expensive HW store paints, the cheap stuff does not cover.
For Cabs, I just used a Benjamin Moore oil based paint. Expensive, but I'm very pleased with the results. It sprays great and is self leveling. Only problem is oils takes forever to dry.
Quoted from vid1900:None of that is any worry, believe it or not.
If you are needing to paint or decal the filled inserts, tape off the surrounding area with Blue Painters Tape, and sand the clear with 220, then 400, then 800. Don't scratch the surrounding playfield, if you tear the tape, put a new piece over the tear.
If you don't need to do any paint work on the inserts, then just leave them alone and continue your paint work.
Shoot your next layer of clear, and flatten your inserts at the same time you flatten the clear layer.
Thanks, I don't need to touch up the inserts. I figured this would be the game plan (no pun intended). So spray the lockdown layer, live with the raised areas, paint new art, then another layer and level?
BTW, I'm really loving how the inserts are looking under the 2pac. SHINEY, SMOOOOOOTH and the flat black Createx key lines came out wonderful.
but Dayum this is a time consuming project. I'm doing my best to not rush the process, it's a tall order though. patience patience, patience........
Quoted from DropTarget:Thanks, I don't need to touch up the inserts. I figured this would be the game plan (no pun intended). So spray the lockdown layer, live with the raised areas, paint new art, then another layer and level?
BTW, I'm really loving how the inserts are looking under the 2pac. SHINEY, SMOOOOOOTH and the flat black Createx key lines came out wonderful.
but Dayum this is a time consuming project. I'm doing my best to not rush the process, it's a tall order though. patience patience, patience........
Vid is right about that. I was worried, too, but I overfilled, dripped some, etc....Once you spray 2PAC over it, you flatten it all out sanding and you can't tell any different. You will be just fine.
Quoted from vid1900:Just take the whole playfield into the store. They need about a dime-sized sample to read it. I take pinball cabs or heads in on a dolly and nobody even looks twice.
Like so (not my pic):
https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/89141-cleopatra-playfield-colours
Quoted from La_Porta:Vid is right about that. I was worried, too, but I overfilled, dripped some, etc....Once you spray 2PAC over it, you flatten it all out sanding and you can't tell any different. You will be just fine.
I know, well I'm hoping! Thanks for the support.
Vid, more advice needed if you please;
Quoted from Atari_Daze:as I was heat curing the white, there were a couple of spots I noticed where the paint was blistering. It was not from my lack of moving the heat gun around as the Createx application guide states can occur. I'm at a loss how it could occur as the surface area was scuffed prior to paint (as done with all my other colors) the area was then wiped down with naptha which was allowed to evaporate / dry prior to paint... again, it was only a couple of small spots, one is about the size of a penny, the other two are about the diameter of a pencil eraser. I'm thinking I should carefully remove the paint where it blisters, fill the area with 2PAC, touch up with color and then seal with another layer of 2PAC?
you let it get to hot and boiled the paint. IT happens. Personally, youcould retouchup those areas and reclear. If it's physically raised, you can sand first some, then repaint then clear. If it didn't raise that much under the clear, you could bury it in more clear.
uh oh, I just left my PF at the auto body shop to be clear coated. It feels like the first time I ever left my infant with someone else.
I guess you gotta trust the sitter!
Quoted from CaptainNeo:If it didn't raise that much under the clear, you could bury it in more clear.
It actually only raised and is only visable when heat is being applied, ive yet to apply any clear, I've a couple little touch ups on other colors.
Sounds like I can just clear over it and see what happens? Knowing I can always touch it up prior to populating the pf?
Quoted from DropTarget:uh oh, I just left my PF at the auto body shop to be clear coated. It feels like the first time I ever left my infant with someone else.
I guess you gotta trust the sitter!
I am considering having my Auto shop do mine as well, but none of them have experience with a play field. Is this something I can trust an auto body shop with, or should I purchase the equipment and materials to do myself? What are they charging you?
What a great thread... I have all sorts of ideas of how to do this now, but of course no real experience. I am curious as to what everyone thought the best approach would be to restore this playfield based on the massive amount experience on here, for the best result? I am no artist but I did own a cabinet business for years and have a lot of finishing experience plus a 5 stage HVLP, so no problem on top coat...
Quoted from Indusguys:I am considering having my Auto shop do mine as well, but none of them have experience with a play field. Is this something I can trust an auto body shop with, or should I purchase the equipment and materials to do myself? What are they charging you?
It's your call. My shop was a bit afraid to touch the playfield. The concern was spraying 2pac on the PF's original paint and he didn't know if the costing would wear over time due to the ball. He's doing it with the understanding that I won't hold them responsible if anything goes bad.
I wanted to do mine myself, but even though I have most of the equipment, and I have a fair amount of experience with a HVLP gun, I've never sprayed auto clear coat, and I hear there is a learning curve. I didn't want to experiment with spraying it at the moment. Plus I'd have to set up a paint booth outside and it's starting to get to be too cold where I live, and really didn't want to be spraying lacquer thinner around to clean up and the costs of buying the 2pac, a respirator, protective clothing and eyewear, having the shop do it will probably be cost effective(ish). I don't know what the final charge will be, He said their labor rate is 50.00 / hour + materials, but they may charge me less, since they'll be doing the playfield as an extra when they're spraying a car. So far they've given me a bunch of 2pac to take home and fill the inserts. I'm guessing it won't be much more than 100.00 - 150.00. I've used this shop for my cars before, so I have a bit of a relationship with them. They do a great job on the cars, keeping fingers crossed though.
There is the issue, that you'll have to make several trips to the shop in order to complete the project.
They have some incentive to do this well and treat me right. The owner lit up when he heard that I wanted to do a pinball machine. He mentioned that he wanted a Stern Avengers, but they are too expensive. I've since found him several that are way under the prices he was finding. One is NIB.
Quoted from Atari_Daze:It actually only raised and is only visable when heat is being applied, ive yet to apply any clear, I've a couple little touch ups on other colors.
Sounds like I can just clear over it and see what happens? Knowing I can always touch it up prior to populating the pf?
Just cut out the blister and touch up the hole BEFORE you clear.
Quoted from johnrezz:I have all sorts of ideas of how to do this now, but of course no real experience. I am curious as to what everyone thought the best approach would be to restore this playfield based on the massive amount experience on here, for the best result?
Find someone with a good playfield to scan you the missing player's head and home plate. Print a waterslide to repair.
Patching the green or tan paint is out, because the repairs will stand out like a sore thumb. Repaint the whole area, because there is no obvious place to just patch in.
You've got a nice clean line of bare wood to the mound, so that should be easy to sand out the dirt.
Looks like an excellent candidate for a first restoration.
Quoted from DropTarget:It's your call. My shop was a bit afraid to touch the playfield. The concern was spraying 2pac on the PF's original paint. He's doing it with the understanding that I won't hold them responsible if anything goes bad.
I wanted to do mine myself, but even though I have most of the equipment, and I have a fair amount of experience with a HVLP gun, I've never sprayed auto clear coat, and I hear there is a learning curve. I didn't want to experiment with spraying it at the moment. Plus I'd have to set up a paint booth outside and it's starting to get to be too cold where I live, and really didn't want to be spraying lacquer thinner around to clean up and the costs of buying the 2pac, a respirator, protective clothing and eyewear, having the shop do it will probably be cost effective(ish). I don't know what the final charge will be, He said their labor rate is 50.00 / hour + materials, but they may charge me less, since they'll be doing the playfield as an extra when they're spraying a car. So far they've given me a bunch of 2pac to take home and fill the inserts. I'm guessing it won't be much more than 100.00. I've used this shop for my cars before, so I have a bit of a relationship with them. They do a great job on the cars, keeping fingers crossed though.
They have some incentive to do this well and treat me right. The owner lit up when he heard that I wanted to do a pinball machine. He mentioned that he wanted a Stern Avengers, but they are too expensive. I've since found him several that are way under the prices he was finding. One is NIB.
Definitely a lot to consider, I guess it depends on how many PF I am going to restore in the future.
Think about it, every day these body shops clear coat expensive cars that cost way more than a pinball machine. They have to deal with surfaces that have all sorts of curves and nooks and crannies. How hard could it be to shoot a quick layer over the perfectly flat small playfield? They should be able to do it literally in about 5 minutes. But I saw the same thing when I went into a shop I have used for car work before and showed him a picture of a playfield. He took one look at it and said no way. Why? I think it’s just because it’s something they have never dealt with and they don’t want to deal with it, especially because they aren’t doing the paint work themselves.
I also wonder if the unknown nature of the material is a factor for a body shop. I read in this thread horror stores about what can happen when a playfield has been previously treated with silicon, causing contamination everywhere that could cause unwanted fisheyes in all future projects. Is that really a potential danger for a shop?
After I talked to him about it for a bit, he finally said he would do it. But it would be $250. Well, that’s not practical, it takes at least 3 coats as described in this thread. Hard to justify $750 just for clearcoating a playfield. I need to find someone who will do coats for $50 or maybe $75 a shot.
Quoted from Indusguys:Definitely a lot to consider, I guess it depends on how many PF I am going to restore in the future.
Yup, that was my thinking. I don't foresee doing many PFs, but if I wind up doing more, the investment would be worth it. There is also pride to be taken by doing it yourself.
Quoted from xsvtoys:How hard could it be to shoot a quick layer over the perfectly flat small playfield? They should be able to do it literally in about 5 minutes.
Exactly.
Quoted from xsvtoys:I think it’s just because it’s something they have never dealt with and they don’t want to deal with it.
Those were precisely his concerns, but I think he was still intrigued. Once I assured him that I understand the risks, he was fine with it.
Quoted from xsvtoys:I read in this thread horror stores about what can happen when a playfield has been previously treated with silicon, causing contamination everywhere that could cause unwanted fisheyes in all future projects.
When I dropped the PF off today, I was wearing gloves, as I had just Naphtha'd it. He made sure to let me do the handling. He did say that he would clean it again with the product that they use on the cars, just in case there was ever silicone used on the PF. He was going to do a test spot first in order to see if their product would have a negative reaction, I'm not sure what they use, I'll try to find out and report to the group.
Quoted from xsvtoys:After I talked to him about it for a bit, he finally said he would do it. But it would be $250. Well, that’s not practical, it takes at least 3 coats as described in this thread. Hard to justify $750 just for clearcoating a playfield. I need to find someone who will do coats for $50 or maybe $75 a shot.
That's nuts! My guy is just putting the PF in the paint booth when he shoots a car at the same time. Using 2pac that's already mixed up and not adding much time for his painter. It's really no skin off their teeth, Actually I'm surprised that he agreed considering their work load.
It's a rather large shop, with an incredible paint booth that they just built about two years ago. Not a speck of dust can get onto the surface in there. They could also heat cure the 2pac in a 30,000 BTU oven. It brings the temp to 120°. I was concerned about the wood drying out, or the inserts expanding at a different rate than the wood, so he's going to let it air cure overnight tonight.
I'm sure there are other shops in your area. Try contacting them. I'll let the group know what my final costs come out to be.
Quoted from xsvtoys:Think about it, every day these body shops clear coat expensive cars that cost way more than a pinball machine. They have to deal with surfaces that have all sorts of curves and nooks and crannies. How hard could it be to shoot a quick layer over the perfectly flat small playfield? They should be able to do it literally in about 5 minutes. But I saw the same thing when I went into a shop I have used for car work before and showed him a picture of a playfield. He took one look at it and said no way. Why? I think it’s just because it’s something they have never dealt with and they don’t want to deal with it, especially because they aren’t doing the paint work themselves.
I also wonder if the unknown nature of the material is a factor for a body shop. I read in this thread horror stores about what can happen when a playfield has been previously treated with silicon, causing contamination everywhere that could cause unwanted fisheyes in all future projects. Is that really a potential danger for a shop?
After I talked to him about it for a bit, he finally said he would do it. But it would be $250. Well, that’s not practical, it takes at least 3 coats as described in this thread. Hard to justify $750 just for clearcoating a playfield. I need to find someone who will do coats for $50 or maybe $75 a shot.
if you just need clearcoating. Level 1 with me is $350 for standard body fields. $400 for widebody games. That's leveling with 3-5 layers and block sanding between layers. Turnaround time is around 2-3 weeks from arrival.
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