Bobby Orr's Power Play
Bally, 1978
Gilligan's Island
Bally, 1991
Space Jam
Sega, 1996For insert and other decals that are half-gone: Is removing what's left of the decal (or painting over as in Vid's 5000 when lit example) necessary, or will the waterslides go over the old decal text nicely without looking like crap?
Porta, your playfield looks amazing! Did you have a thread with progress pics and steps or just what you posted along the way here?
Quoted from La_Porta:It took me a lot of reading, breathing, sighing, re-doing, and praying to get the results I did.
Damn it, I'm not up to praying.
Quoted from DropTarget:The value of the machine doesn't justify the cost of a professional restore.
Why not find an inexpensive project machine (or two) to cut your teeth on and then tackle this one? Having now done two restorations I can attest that you will make MANY mistakes. Starting off by using Varathane would mistake number one in a series of unfortunate events. If you don't want to obtain a different machine to practice on at least paint yourself some scrap plywood and learn how to shoot 2pac on it so you can at least start off on the right foot. Don't try to modify the steps in this guide while attempting to restore something that you care about. You will be happier and have better results practicing on other stuff before messing with a keeper.
Quoted from Chalkey:Porta, your playfield looks amazing! Did you have a thread with progress pics and steps or just what you posted along the way here?
My thread is here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/la-portas-firepower-rejuvenation
As for the waterslides, I had pretty good fortune with them matching up on mine. For instance, my "2X" multiplier graphic was partially scraped off, and I was able to line up the new one over it and have it look great. I had somewhat less success with my "4" arrow, partly because the new font was just slightly more narrow than the old, but it still looks good in my opinion. I can get a closer pic of it when I get home tomorrow.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Why not find an inexpensive project machine (or two) to cut your teeth on and then tackle this one? Having now done two restorations I can attest that you will make MANY mistakes. Starting off by using Varathane would mistake number one in a series of unfortunate events. If you don't want to obtain a different machine to practice on at least paint yourself some scrap plywood and learn how to shoot 2pac on it so you can at least start off on the right foot. Don't try to modify the steps in this guide while attempting to restore something that you care about. You will be happier and have better results practicing on other stuff before messing with a keeper.
Thanks for the advice and concern,
I've got the play field stripped (at least the top), and have spoken with local auto body shop. I think they'll be willing to shoot the clear for me. They just need to see the PF 1st, in order to assess my prep work. If they can't shoot it, I'll practice on some scrap wood as suggested.
I'm guessing that I should start by cleaning the PF and redoing the key lines, then have them shoot a dry coat. Do you think I should drip some 2pac on the inserts before bringing the PF to them?
Quoted from Chalkey:For insert and other decals that are half-gone: Is removing what's left of the decal (or painting over as in Vid's 5000 when lit example) necessary, or will the waterslides go over the old decal text nicely without looking like crap?
Yep, just put the new ones over the old.
If there is just a chip or two in the old black screening, just touch it up with a 0000 brush, no need to make a decal.
Quoted from DropTarget:Thanks for the advice and concern,
I've got the play field stripped (at least the top), and have spoken with local auto body shop. I think they'll be willing to shoot the clear for me. They just need to see the PF 1st, in order to asses my prep work. If they can't drop it, I'll practice on some scrap wood as suggested.
I'm guessing that I should start by cleaning the PF and redoing the key lines, then have them shoot a dry coat. Do you think I should drip some 2pac on the inserts before bringing the PF to them?
Yes, get some of the same clear they shoot from them, and fill all the sinkers.
Also, you are at the point of no return when they shoot, so make sure you have your shooter lane, saucers, and ball trails all cleaned up and stained to match the surrounding wood.
Gently 800 grit the whole playfield for them.
Tell them to give you a thin 100% coat. It should go down glossy.
Quoted from vid1900:Yes, get some of the same clear they shoot from them, and fill all the sinkers.
Also, you are at the point of no return when they shoot, so make sure you have your shooter lane, saucers, and ball trails all cleaned up and stained to match the surrounding wood.
Gently 800 grit the whole playfield for them.
Tell them to give you a thin 100% coat. It should go down glossy.
Thanks.
I just stripped the top of the PF, something I've never done before and was always leery of doing, like everything else though, once you've done it the fear goes away (well, mostly). I did mess up a tiny bit of wood getting my first wire form out and will have to fill that area. It's a GTB, so the holes are drilled through to the bottom of the PF. I tapped it out from the bottom, but must have been a bit too forceful on one side. Then I used these (see pictures), I'm pretty sure Vid1900 has shown similar tools in an earlier post. I used one to start to lift the wire form from the top, by putting the "pry bar" on its edge and rotating it up until the wire form was the same hight as the tool, then placed a 2nd one on the PF to raise the height and used the 1st one again in the same manor, rotating it (going gently from one side of the wire form to the other.) It worked like a charm.
Here's a pic of the stripped PF as well.
OH, also I went to buy some Createx paints today, my local art supply store stocks them. They did not have opaque yellow, so I bought a set of their Wicked colors. Do you know anything about that line of paint? When I was at the check out, the woman at the register volunteered that I was going to love using Createx paint. Said they're the best.
Quoted from pinheadpierre:Hey Vid - I understand doing the shooter lane sanding and magic eraser work (which is essentially a form of sanding) prior to shooting a lockdown coat but I don't get the keyline prior to lockdown part. It would be risky to use vinyl stencils on a playfield that has not been locked down and freehand keylines are never going to be as good as stencils. Could you explain your thinking on this? I don't understand.
Good point. I was going to use stencils that have water soluble adhesive to redo the key lines, should I not use stencils?
there is so much info in this thread.......
Quoted from DropTarget:OH, also I went to buy some Createx paints today, my local art supply store stocks them. They did not have opaque yellow, so I bought a set of their Wicked colors. Do you know anything about that line of paint? When I was at the check out, the woman at the register volunteered that I was going to love using Createx paint. Said they're the best.
The wicked colors are excellent for filling in larger areas because they stick very well to smooth surfaces and don't require heat to set. They will work very well for that larger blue and that larger purplish area. Unfortunately, they are not opaque (except for opaque white) so for touchups they are a pain. Not quite as good as the regular opaque createx in that regard. For yellow you will need to first spray the wicked opaque white first, then spray yellow over that. Otherwise you could spray 8 coats and will still see the old paint beneath.
Thanks,
I'm now reading that some wickeds are opaque, and some are translucent. Like Googling medical issues, there is conflicting info. I think the translucent are the Wicked Detail line. I'm going to call Createx to clarify.
Also, obviously I'm new to this, so sorry for all the questions....are the colors sprayed on top of the 1st unsanded lock down clear coat?
Quoted from DropTarget:Thanks,
Maybe I'll mail order the Opaques.
If you are ordering some, grab one of these as it is a stock opaque color (sky blue). Won't have to tweak it too much to match your playfield. 
I feel like the "opaque" createx paints are just somewhat more opaque than colors that they do not label as such. All of their yellows are transparent whether or not they label them as opaque. Always lay down a bit of white under yellow. Tinting (adding white to) any color will increase its opacity. Fortunately, lots of playfield colors are mixed tints.
Quoted from klr650:If you are ordering some, grab one of these as it is a stock opaque color (sky blue). Won't have to tweak it too much to match your playfield.
Thanks,
I saw that one in the store. It looked pretty close. I was going to see how scanning the PF, and sampling the color in Photoshop to find the RGB or CMYK values works. There is a website that will then give a breakdown of various colors to mix... http://trycolors.com
Of course there are a lot of variables involved ie: scanner accuracy, the paint's pigments etc, but thought it may be worth a try.
Quoted from vid1900:Yes, get some of the same clear they shoot from them, and fill all the sinkers.
Also, you are at the point of no return when they shoot, so make sure you have your shooter lane, saucers, and ball trails all cleaned up and stained to match the surrounding wood.
Gently 800 grit the whole playfield for them.
Tell them to give you a thin 100% coat. It should go down glossy.
I showed my auto body shop the PF today. They said that they'll shoot it and let me take home some clear when they have some already mixed from a job. That will give me 2 1/2 hours to fill the cupped inserts. Prices seem well worth it compared to experimenting myself. It won't be much more than buying a quart of clear and catalyst. The only thing he thinks could be an issue is that sometimes the clear reacts badly with the original lacquer paints.
He also mentioned that they bake the clear on, I don't think that would be a wise thing to do with a wooden PF. I think it would probably be better to just wait for the clear to cure overnight. Your opinion?
Vid, looked over your sanding and buffing tutorial. How long does 2PAC need to cure to do this? It’s been 4 days since the last coat.
Quoted from DropTarget:The only thing he thinks could be an issue is that sometimes the clear reacts badly with the original lacquer paints.
It should be fine.
Usually the only reaction is with aftermarket paints, not so much the original with 2PAC.
Quoted from DropTarget:He also mentioned that they bake the clear on, I don't think that would be a wise thing to do with a wooden PF. I think it would probably be better to just wait for the clear to cure overnight. Your opinion?
Depends on how warm he makes it.
If it's an IR lamp, those cure the 2pac in a hurry.
Quoted from La_Porta:Vid, looked over your sanding and buffing tutorial. How long does 2PAC need to cure to do this? It’s been 4 days since the last coat.
A thin coat will already be hard.
A thick coat could take a month.
Put your nose on it. If it still stinks, it's not cured.
Probably a silly question: when you make up the liquid for wet sanding...where do you apply it? Directly to the PF? How much? I assume you don't flood the thing off the bat.
a few things....
1st, thanks for all the support and info. I've been contacted off line by a few people from this thread and have received positive feedback and great information. It reinforces what a great community this can be.
As nerve wracking as this is for me, as it's my 1st full PF restoration, it's somehow therapeutic and relaxing as well. Zen and the art of Pinball restoration, I guess.
I've also spoken with Createx. Wickeds are opaque, they have a line called Wicked Detail, those are the transparent ones.
The Skyblue was WAY off from the PF. They have a Teal, that may be able to be tweaked.
So far, I've ME'd the PF, filled in the wood that chipped when removing the wire form, and started to paint the key lines. Baby steps, but on the way.....
Here's a picture of how the few I did came out. I used a Silhouette Cameo 3 cutter (there is a thread about Silhouette Cutters) to create stencils, then airbrushed the lines. I'm happy with how they're coming out, much better than I could do freehand, although it looks like I'll have to touch up that #4.
Quoted from DropTarget:I've also spoken with Createx. Wickeds are opaque, they have a line called Wicked Detail, those are the transparent ones.
Strange that Createx would say this. I mean, just have a look at the Wicked brochure on the Createx website. It shows what each color will look like when sprayed over a white vs. black base. Other than black and white, most colors seem to be transparent to a certain degree.
Well, I did the wet sanding, polishing, and waxing last night. I certainly brought down the high spots and made everything uniform. However, I never really seemed to get rid of all the sanding tracks for some reason. I didn’t skip any grits. Maybe I didn’t buff long enough? If it’s stuck like this, I’m fine with it: I think ittl look good when installed. From what ou said, Vid, eventual ball swirl is inevitable, right? Isn’t this basically what that will look like?4BEE5060-E1DF-46B6-8F41-DB56F350A812 (resized).jpeg9B8E7328-29EA-41CE-BFCD-A634BCABB6F2 (resized).jpegB4066DF7-DD9F-46CD-8E32-413AB901D538 (resized).jpeg5029E52B-16F9-4F9F-A6AD-C1053C869E12 (resized).jpeg5029E52B-16F9-4F9F-A6AD-C1053C869E12 (resized).jpeg
Quoted from klr650:Strange that Createx would say this. I mean, just have a look at the Wicked brochure on the Createx website. It shows what each color will look like when sprayed over a white vs. black base. Other than black and white, most colors seem to be transparent to a certain degree.
I spoke with someone at Createx. They also said that Dennis, the owner was out of town. I'll check with him to verify and let the group know what he says.
Quoted from DropTarget:I spoke with someone at Createx. They also said that Dennis, the owner was out of town. I'll check with him to verify and let the group know what he says.
Ok, I just got off of the phone with Dennis, the owner of Createx. He told me that all of their paints are translucent, at least to some degree. He told me that the Wicked line has enough pigment to become opaque if you lay down enough coats. Usually 5-7 or so thin coats should work, less if you're heavy handed.
He also said that he does not recommend using heat to set any of their paints, but of course he's coming from a chemists point of view. Obviously Vid1900 has had great results. He stated that using heat could plasticize the paint, especially if the substrate is cold. He recommended heating the substrate in a warm room, or using lamps before painting and then setting the paint with air.
As a bit of FYI info (redundant?), I asked if they had a Cyan or Magenta, as that would make mixing colors easier (yes, I know the limitations of RGB vs CMYK). He mentioned that they are working on it and he actually has a Cyan siting in his office, so I'm guessing that they will be expanding their pallet in the near future.
-W
Quoted from Atari_Daze:I had that exact issue, see the response.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/98#post-4002401
just pulling straight up with frisket is enough to have clear come off? i do not picture this happening on a car. It's that light of holding power?
Quoted from DropTarget:La Porta,
I think you need another Cabinet to go with that other PF.
Is that a compliment on the playfield, or an insult on the cabinet? 
Quoted from La_Porta:Is that a compliment on the playfield, or an insult on the cabinet?
no comment
Quoted from La_Porta:Well, I did the wet sanding, polishing, and waxing last night. I certainly brought down the high spots and made everything uniform. However, I never really seemed to get rid of all the sanding tracks for some reason. I didn’t skip any grits. Maybe I didn’t buff long enough? If it’s stuck like this, I’m fine with it: I think ittl look good when installed. From what ou said, Vid, eventual ball swirl is inevitable, right? Isn’t this basically what that will look like?
Looks like the clear is not fully hard yet.
2pac should look like glass.
Quoted from La_Porta:Well, I did the wet sanding, polishing, and waxing last night. I certainly brought down the high spots and made everything uniform. However, I never really seemed to get rid of all the sanding tracks for some reason. I didn’t skip any grits. Maybe I didn’t buff long enough? If it’s stuck like this, I’m fine with it: I think ittl look good when installed. From what ou said, Vid, eventual ball swirl is inevitable, right? Isn’t this basically what that will look like?
How long has it been since you cleared? I let my playfields sit for several weeks after the last spray before I sand and buff. Before that it seems like the clear is to "soft" and will "scratch" even when wiping with a clean cloth or removing wax. Once I started waiting a while my results were much better. But I'm no professional.
Quoted from DropTarget:He also said that he does not recommend using heat to set any of their paints, but of course he's coming from a chemists point of view. Obviously Vid1900 has had great results.
I have the Createx DVD and it shows airbrushing a T-shirt, then ironing it for 30 seconds on high to set the paint.
It's possible the formula has changed, but I just heatset a fresh quart of Opaque Black, and it locked in normally.
Quoted from DropTarget:Ok, I just got off of the phone with Dennis, the owner of Createx. He told me that all of their paints are translucent, at least to some degree. He told me that the Wicked line has enough pigment to become opaque if you lay down enough coats. Usually 5-7 or so thin coats should work, less if you're heavy handed.
He also said that he does not recommend using heat to set any of their paints, but of course he's coming from a chemists point of view. Obviously Vid1900 has had great results. He stated that using heat could plasticize the paint, especially if the substrate is cold. He recommended heating the substrate in a warm room, or using lamps before painting and then setting the paint with air.
As a bit of FYI info (redundant?), I asked if they had a Cyan or Magenta, as that would make mixing colors easier (yes, I know the limitations of RGB vs CMYK). He mentioned that they are working on it and he actually has a Cyan siting in his office, so I'm guessing that they will be expanding their pallet in the near future.
-W
This is extremely helpful information for the community, especially considering the source. Thank you.
-Jay
Quoted from vid1900:I have the Createx DVD and it shows airbrushing a T-shirt, then ironing it for 30 seconds on high to set the paint.
It's possible the formula has changed, but I just heatset a fresh quart of Opaque Black, and it locked in normally.
VID you are correct, Regular Createx MUST be cured with heat (as per the Createx Application Guide on their website). For Createx Wicked, heat-curing is an optional step so I don't usually bother...
Quoted from vid1900:Looks like the clear is not fully hard yet.
2pac should look like glass.
Oh well...I guess what is done is done. What can I say? At an angle it’s shiny, and it’s flat. I’m happy. Guess I can’t fix it.
Does sanding to a finer grain *hurt*, though? Painting over a 1500 grit sanded clear is still going to have enough bite for acrylic to stick to, right? Or should I lightly sand back down to 800 in prep for painting?
Am I overthinking things as usual?
Quoted from vid1900:I have the Createx DVD and it shows airbrushing a T-shirt, then ironing it for 30 seconds on high to set the paint.
It's possible the formula has changed, but I just heatset a fresh quart of Opaque Black, and it locked in normally.
I've been following your advice and have had no issues.
So what is going on here?
Dennis, the owner of Createx says:
Quoted from DropTarget:he does not recommend using heat to set any of their paints
But the Createx Application Guide says:
"Createx Airbrush Colors are not cured after drying, heat is required. Wicked Colors air dry to a durable film without heat curing although use of heat does achieve optimum film strength. "
Could it be that these instructions were published 8 years ago and Dennis has since learned that heat is not required/optimal?
-Jay
Dunno, but if heat works, I'd use heat! I didn't mean to open a can of worms here. Perhaps he wasn't speaking for the entire product line.
Back to the restoration.......
I've repainted all of the key lines around my inserts, the next step is to fill in the cupped inserts. There are 15 inserts that I painted on (the ones with the arrows), does that paint need to be roughed up a bit in order for the 2pac to adhere, or should it have enough tooth as is?
Quoted from La_Porta:Oh well...I guess what is done is done. What can I say? At an angle it’s shiny, and it’s flat. I’m happy. Guess I can’t fix it.
You can fix it.
Let it cure another 2 weeks, THEN buff.
If it is still soft, wait another 2 weeks.
Quoted from alexmogil:Does sanding to a finer grain *hurt*, though? Painting over a 1500 grit sanded clear is still going to have enough bite for acrylic to stick to, right? Or should I lightly sand back down to 800 in prep for painting?
Am I overthinking things as usual?
The rougher the surface, the better the grip .
800 works for my work pace.
I've never experimented to see at what grit the paint does not adhere well, but another restorer I speak with uses 600 grit.
If your paint is sticking at 1500, then you are all good
Quoted from DropTarget:I've repainted all of the key lines around my inserts, the next step is to fill in the cupped inserts. There are 15 inserts that I painted on (the ones with the arrows), does that paint need to be roughed up a bit in order for the 2pac to adhere, or should it have enough tooth as is?
Getting ready to try and revive this pinbot playfield. My first question is how to paint the black around the stars. Frisket doesn't seem reasonable. I have an airbrush I picked up. Can I just try and freehand the main areas of black and stay away from the stars? Seems they would be easy enough to re touch later with whites and yellows. I've seen a few restores that hand painted pinbot play fields. I am just trying to minimize the brush strokes. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.
Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!
This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-ultimate-playfield-restoration/page/101 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.
Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.
Chesterfield, VA
Sana'a
Maidstone