My Gottlieb Atlantis has a top bumper that seemed really sluggish compared to the lower one. I decided I'd replace both bumpers.

Using this guide I replaced all the plastic parts, lamp socket, coil, sleeve, plunger, spring, etc. Only thing I kept up top were the rings which seemed solid and were not bent or damaged (they move smoothly when operated by hand). I did polish them up and they appear fine.

So after all is done both bumpers work and seem to have more pep than before, but the top bumper is definitely still much weaker than the bottom one. I filed the switch and narrowed the gap but it didn't help.

Wondering if Vid or anyone else has any advice on where to look next to get the top bumper kicking harder?

[FYI, both bumpers fire together on Atlantis, i.e. touch either skirt and both bumpers fire. Not sure if that matters at all but thought I'd mention it.]

Vid1900,

Just to be clear, two bumpers and two coils but they are wired such that triggering either bumper fires both coils. I've read elsewhere that this is the normal operation for this machine (and some other mid-70s Gottlieb EMs) but I have no way to verify that.

Managed to identify the relay that triggers when either bumper skirt it touched. It's a small one with 4 leaf switches, two for each bumper.

There's a plastic part that holds one end of the switches so they all move together. If I rock this back (so I'm just manually activating it) the bumpers fire. However, it depends where I push. If I push on the side of the plastic where the top bumper switches are both bumpers fire. If I push on the other side (bottom bumper switches) only the lower bumper fires. So this is clearly my problem area. This relay is not creating good contact for the upper bumper switches for some reason.

I have no experience repairing one of these relays? Any advice?

Yes, I have one and I filed the contacts. However that did not resolve it.

If I press the skirt of either bumper and hold it (for a second) the lower bumper ring stays down. The upper one fires then releases. It seems the relay is just not holding the upper bumper switches physically closed for some reason.

I will try filing the contacts again. They are already tight, i.e. hard to fit my little file in there. I may need to disassemble it somewhat to really get it clean.

Any residual magnetism?

I spent another 1/2 hour last night carefully filing and adjusting leaf switches. Now everything works!

Both bumpers firing at full power and it completely changes the feel of the game. It's really a huge difference in how it plays. So much faster and scores are higher too.

Thanks again, Vid. I would never have attempted these repairs myself without this excellent guide.

Just did my first full pop bumper rebuild on my stern big game. I would've been clueless without this thread. Tons of broken rusted out pieces I replaced. They look fantastic and play great now. Thanks again for doing this Vid!!

I wanted to replace the switch stack on my black knight, so I ordered another spoon switch stack, turns out it's not complete, so I started to disassemble the original stack, to incorporate the new parts, now everything is so tight that Im having issues getting it all back together, any pointers??

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it looks like some of the new insulators are thicker than the old ones. they make a few different thicknesses

I finally got it back together, I had to use a flat head screw driver to press everything, next time Im drilling everything to loosen up the holes

I replaced the EOS switch on my Gottlieb Raven last night & have a question about the position of the coil's yoke.
On two of the pops, the scoring switch was tensioned so that the blades were closed when relaxed & the yoke positioned outside of the scoring leafs. When the coil was at rest, the yoke would hold the switch open & when the coil was energized, the plunger would pull in allowing the switch to close.
On the others, the switch was tensioned open while relaxed & the yoke was between the two EOS switches. When the coil was energized, the plunger would pull in & the yoke would pull the taller leaf of the scoring switch in & close it.
Which way is correct?
Edit: Here's where the yoke pulls the switch closed:
Pull.jpg
And here's where it releases the switch allowing it to close:
Release.jpg

Hi Vid.
Yes, it scores. Didn't know it was backwards. I'll have to take a better look at the pops.

Was going through my new HRC with a fine toothed comb and instantly caught how sluggish the pops were. Look under the hood and sure enough, all 6 yokes are broken, coil sleeves look like the inside of a chimney, skirts are chipped, and all the plastic pieces have seen better days.

But I'm a newbie to a lot of this. How am I going to rebuild such a complex assembly? I search the forum topics but get little results in my searches. Then it hits me... search "VID" and "POP" together. Boom first result!

Vid - this was an amazing walkthrough. Though I could only get the 4" lamp holders (and you were right, the 10" leads would've made life a lot easier), this was 1000x better than trying to document the disassembly with digital photos and then trying the reverse with new parts I ordered.

Now my pops are like Popeye after a can of spinach. It's awesome to experience, and by going Red/Black/Green skirts for the three Roulette colors, it even looks as awesome as it acts.

Another "Vid saved my resto project" testamonial.

Seeing this thread resurface reminded me about something.

On Gottlieb pop bumpers, is there a standard approach for replacing the coil stop with a depression in it? There's usually nothing wrong with the bracket itself.

Drill out riveted coil stop. Install Gottlieb pn# A4862 bolt-in coil stop.

little secret: They fit Williams brackets too.

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When you replace the new bulb socket, does it matter which lead goes in which direction or which wire it reattaches to? My old pops had one short and one longer lead stapled to the bottom - and one went to a diode and one directly to a wire. I don't know if that was code for which lead was positive or negative, or if it even matters. (And can you tell which lead is which on those sockets?)

I am trying to replace an A-7459-7 pop bumper switch on my F-14 and the only switch I could find online is the sw-11A-35 switch which does not have tabs to solder the resistor/capacitor as well as the diode. Can anyone help me with how this new switch should be wired up?

Vid,

I've got a Williams 1979 Gorgar, and it plays great. Pops play great.
How can I make decisions about what to do or NOT do with the metal pop bumper rings?

I'm wondering how to determine best course of action:

* replace them
* tumble them
* leave them alone

thanks,
mof

Vid, what are you using to replace the replaceable coil stop (part A-613-113) on 1981-1989 Bally pops? I can't seem to find this part available anywhere. You mentioned somewhere that in a pinch, Williams pop brackets with the built-in coil stop were an acceptable substitute, but they're a little longer......what about early Bally SS pop bracket/coil stops, like from Playboy, Space Invaders, etc.? I'd really rather use the correct part but if they're not available, I'd prefer at least the correct length bracket.

BTW regarding you last post, I picked up a Centaur recently that had a gray PLASTIC pop bumper ring! Any idea where on earth that may have come from?

Probably a Stern part. The plastic yokes and ring got dropped but the plastic bracket lived on.

I was wondering if anyone had the vid1900 guide that was mentioned at the beginning of this thread? Or is the thread the guide...Nubee here.

Nevermind. Now the pictures are showing up in my browser from the first part of the thread. I will review.

The most time-consuming moment for me is removing the three over-exaggerated long nail-screws that hold the bracket to the playfield... Why in the world are they so overstretched in length... ? It is tight, ltd space to twist the wrench taking forever to unscrew the nut... Is there 5/16" casing available deep enough so the tip of the nail does not hit it´s bottom ? It would take 4 seconds per screw to remove, compared to 12minutes which I clocked the one I unscrewed yesterday.

Would appreciate a link where to find one.

Thanks
Matt.

Nut driver? https://store.snapon.com/Hard-Handle-inches-6-Point-Nut-Driver-Ergonomic-Handle-Yellow-5-16-6-21-32--P796482.aspx There are cheaper brands available.

Deep socket for socket wrench set? https://store.snapon.com/Deep-inches-chrome-Socket-Deep-5-16-6-Point-P630967.aspx Again, there are less expensive brands.

There's a set like this in my pinball tool kit - http://www.sears.com/xcelite-99pr-14-pc-multi-purpose-nutdriver/p-SPM11537287930?sid=IDx20140425xECNMPTL25 I didn't pay the yard sale guy any where near that much. probably $5

HI... It would have to be the 2nd alternative. The first yellow nutdriver looks way to shallow for it to swallow the length of the screwnail and grip the hex-nut... Thanks for the links. Matt

Get the magnet nut drivers from Pinball Life. They are hollow shaft. Joe

Working on a Firepower pop. Lower left to be specific.

Background:

Discovered that the lower left pop wasn't activating. Didn't do any troubleshooting because when I opened up the playfield, and took the bumper apart, it was apparent that the coil was fried, and the sleeve was melted. So off to Marco for replacements. (Coil, plunger, yoke, etc, and new parts for playfield.) Following the guide, I was able to successfully rebuild it, or so I thought.

Also, this game has a new Kohout Driver Board connected to the original MPU.

Issue and symptoms:

I have 32.X volts across both lugs on the new coil. It is wired correctly, the red wire is consistent across all the other pops and oriented correctly to the diode. (double and triple checked....)

Still not popping, however I do have connectivity from the switch back to the driver board. So I know the switch is making contact.

The Orange Red wire (Pin 3) is showing 4.89 V at the driver board. Other pops show 4.9 to 5.0) When activated, nothing happens and the voltage goes to 20.X, while other pops go to 60.X. (I know not to hold it down for a long time, )

The switch looks original. I know there is a capacitor and a Resistor in line from the two blades that connect when contact it made on the skirt.

The scoring is working correctly.

So now I am at a loss. What other further testing can I do? There is a Green Yellow that traverses the underside of the playfield. Would that voltage help?

Also I am NOT opposed to rebuilding the switch. PITA location wise, but I am getting better each and every time I work on the machine. If the recommendation is to rebuild, what are resistor, capacitor, and diode components as I can't seem to find a BOM for the switches anywhere......

Thanks in advance for any help.

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OK just ran the test, and nothing registers. All the other pops register, this one does not.

Switch replacement time? Or are there other things I can test for.....

OK, the switch is making contact. I get a continuity beep when I press the two leaves/contact together. Is it possible the contacts are badly corroded and not allowing enough juice to get through to active the solenoid? I have some blades and contacts in the tool box. Not sure if I would use low voltage (gold) or high voltage contacts.

Scoring switch is working and registering scores.

I can make electrical contact both by touching the skirt, and by pressing them together.

Amazing what you figure out after some sleep. This has nothing to do with the switch. The coil isn't firing during the coil test. (I knew that last night, but it didn't register.....) Something is amiss somewhere else. I will open a thread in Early Solid State. Thanks Vid for the guide, I am sure once I figure it out all will be well.....

Make sure the transistor isn't bad. That was my issue.

Run a jumper wire from the side rails (ground) to the NON BANDED side of the coil diode. Did it fire?

-Yes it fired.

If it did, now ground the TIP transistor tab of that pop's driver transistor. Did it fire?

-Yes it fired.

If not, then you have a connection problem between the driver board and the pop coil.
If it did, now look at that driver transistor and the little pre driver transistor next to it.
Testing TIP102 style of Transistors :
Meter in DIODE mode.
Black lead on center tab of transistor (there is a hole in the center tab - it's right on top of the transistor).
Red lead tests each outside leg.
Readings should be between .4 and .6

-May be a variation in the way that the Kohout board is wired, but when I did this, the meter went to "-" in Diode mode, for each leg, no value shown.

-When I tried the same test on another TIP transistor for the other pop bumpers, it did the same thing, with one exception. When I touched the left leg, it fired the solenoid. It did NOT fire on the transistor in question. (Hmmnm)

If you reverse the set up and put the red lead on the center tab, the outer legs should read 0.
Test your work by checking other transistors of the same type on the board.

-Got 0 for each leg, and again the same result as above. Touching the left leg fired the other solenoids, but not the one in question.

Q18 (Transistor in question)

Black lead on center tab
Red right - .456
Red left - .456

Red lead on center tab
Black right - No Reading
Black left - No Reading

Q19 & others (Transistors known working)

Black lead on center tab
Red right - .456
Red left - No reading

Red lead on center tab
Black right - No Reading
Black left - No Reading

Put the black lead on the top of the transistor and then out the red lead on each of the legs to properly read them. 0 on center leg and the outer legs should read .4-.6

So my results are two posts above. Based on the results, the transistor is NOT behaving vs. the rest of the others?

So what say the smart guys? Replace the transistor? This is pretty easy to do, the Kohout boards are very serviceable.

Thanks guys! I just want this pop to work so the game at least plays correct.

Completely understand. I have the BOM for the board and the part is IRL520n. I have a query into Ed @ Great Plains to see if I can get a suitable replacement.

If this was a pure Williams board, and the issue was a locked on coil, what would you replace? Just the transistor or other components?