(Topic ID: 29731)

Vid's GUIDE To Rebuilding Pop Bumpers

By vid1900

11 years ago


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  • 655 posts
  • 170 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by Zitt
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    There are 655 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 14.
    #601 3 years ago

    Sounds to me like the the difference is which direction the mounting bracket faces.

    #602 3 years ago
    Quoted from Quadrider:

    I swear, These vid guides are absolute life savers. Thanks Vid!
    Question on the spoon/leaf switch replacement assemblies.... My Jack*Bot manual is calling for a B-12030-2 replacement, however multiple websites including PBL & Action are listing the A-12030-3 as the correct replacement for J*B. Is there any difference between A-12030-3 and B-12030-2?? Will either one work? 
    On Actions listing for the A-12030-3, they note:“Can use #B-12030-2 and reverse the mounting bracket.” So I presume the only Difference between the two are the mounting brackets??

    One is assembled left handed and one right handed.

    Of course, I have to ask; do you need an entire new switch assembly?

    Are yours missing completely?

    Because normally you keep the bracket, and just replace the spoon (unless the switch contacts are completely worn off)

    #603 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Because normally you keep the bracket, and just replace the spoon (unless the switch contacts are completely worn off)

    Spoon definitely ready for replacement, but the switch contacts are pretty worn down as well, and appear to never have been replaced... Since I’m replacing every other component in the pop bumper, minus well replace the spoon and switch assembly as well

    1 week later
    #604 3 years ago

    I have a question as I'm messing with my F-14 pop bumper. I know the pops are weak naturally so as I contemplate changing the 50v to the pops and the 25v to the diverters (as i've seen Grumpy talk about) I'm adjusting my leaf switches and cleaning them to get the most of what I have currently. Reference this post as it's exactly my setup. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-rebuilding-pop-bumpers#post-486047
    and this post as its explaining what happens when travel starts. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-to-rebuilding-pop-bumpers#post-486070

    Now back to mine. When I push my coil down manually(via the metal and fiber yoke), what I see is the spoon contacts as it should and makes the solenoid, in turn, the metal and fiber yoke do their initial job of making the scoring switch but as I'm watching the ring rod bottom out it actually remakes the spoon leaf contact at the end of its stroke. So the ring rod is travelling far enough down to re-engage the spoon contact. Hope that makes sense. Doesn't seem right. Of course everything is happening so fast in real time that maybe it doesn't matter. Just seemed weird to me as I was over analyzing the operation much like I obsess about everything else. My skirt seems very sloppy and high as well on the top of the playfield. It's new. I didn't do the install the first time but I did have it apart when I changed the pop bumper body out to one of those red clear ones( smaller than the original as Vid explains in one of these recent pages)it just doesn't seem like it should be this loose. body>skirt>spring>base. Seemed pretty straight forward.
    Anyone have any thoughts on this.
    Is the smaller body causing issues maybe? Should I install the original size? Does that make a difference? Multiple things in play here.
    Maybe my coil stop is smashed already? Something's amiss about that ring rod travel to me.
    I'll be ordering all new oem stuff even though it looks all new and most likely replaced when it went through Todd Tuckey's shop via previous owner. I'm a fan of his work and videos.
    Thanks to everyone as always for their time.
    Oh yeah and the game plays fine 99% of the time. It's just that pop bumper scenario bugs the crap out of me and it did seem to come out of adjustment once when the pop bumper stopped working all together. My mind went immediately to that damn skirt, spring, base loose scenario. Kind of hard to set the spoon when the skirt pin isn't consistent during it's throes of operation.
    I know I'm all over the place here but biggest question is that rod travel I guess.
    r/
    Mike

    #605 3 years ago

    ^ have to see pics, but you should rebuild the ENTIRE thing.

    Don't count on anyone else to do the job right

    #606 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    ^ have to see pics, but you should rebuild the ENTIRE thing.
    Don't count on anyone else to do the job right

    Copy. Wilco.
    Ordering now.

    "When there's doubt, there is no doubt"
    I used to hit my fellow shipmates with this statement on the daily. Sometimes I need a reminder to follow my own advice.

    I'll take a couple photos tomorrow morning just in case you happen to see something grossly incorrect. I may not notice due to my lack of intricate knowledge.

    Thank you.
    r/
    Mike

    #607 3 years ago

    I've seen similar on a DE pop after replacing everything. Had the whole mech out of the machine even to look at it. Every time the ring went down, it'd rattle the skirt even though it didn't seem to be touching it

    #608 3 years ago

    Plunger is probably worn down.

    #609 3 years ago

    A picture is worth, in my case, the 463 words in my original post.
    Go ahead and shout it out when you see it.
    The error is most likely mine. Regardless if I "thought" I mimicked the original install, the odd fit should have been apparent to me at the time. No excuses.
    I'm more worried that my once sharp troubleshooting and repairing brain has really let me down as of late.
    All the other questions in my first post are immediately answered by the 1st picture in this post.
    At least it's here for everyone to see and possibly assist another.
    I gained knowledge today. Small win.
    Carry on.
    r/
    Mike

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    #610 3 years ago

    Some positive takeaways. While researching yesterday I ran across Vid's suggestion to someone else regarding the peening of the ring and rod. I successfully performed that action. The other side effect is I no longer need to consider changing voltages to increase bumper strength. It's plenty strong now.
    This boring 58 second shows mostly the consistent scoring when the pop is functioning correctly and 100% of the time.
    I left the pop assembly in the shopping cart last night because I wanted to wait to lift the playfield and see what else I could order. I'll put the money into some new diverter parts, possible flipper rebuilds and ball eject parts. They all function correctly but I see some worn stuff here and there.
    Thanks for the responses and sanity check.
    Let's go flyin'

    r/
    Mike

    #611 3 years ago
    Quoted from mikepmcs:

    A picture is worth, in my case, the 463 words in my original post.
    Go ahead and shout it out when you see it.

    I didn't even know it was possible to assemble them that way - you get points for that! At least you were only 90-deg off - of course, in this case, had you been a 180-deg off you would have been correct. That high skirt would probably work well on a billiard ball.

    #612 3 years ago
    Quoted from sudsy7:

    I didn't even know it was possible to assemble them that way - you get points for that! At least you were only 90-deg off - of course, in this case, had you been a 180-deg off you would have been correct. That high skirt would probably work well on a billiard ball.

    The scary thing is I made it work.

    giphy.gifgiphy.gif
    #613 3 years ago
    Quoted from mikepmcs:

    The scary thing is I made it work.

    A square peg will fit in a round hole...if your hammer is big enough.

    1 week later
    #614 3 years ago

    I am working cleaning/replacing the pop bumpers on my Getaway. The rods seem to have welded/cast washers. Does anyone know how to remove them? Please see the attached image

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    #615 3 years ago

    They might just be the wrong size washers that somebody really squished on there

    Put a drop of PB Blaster at the joint, and see if you can twist the washers off with pliers

    #616 3 years ago
    Quoted from momijidave:

    I am working cleaning/replacing the pop bumpers on my Getaway. The rods seem to have welded/cast washers. Does anyone know how to remove them? Please see the attached image
    [quoted image]

    Use diagonals and just cut then off, they are the wrong ones and fit too tight.

    1 week later
    #617 3 years ago

    Started my first bumper rebuild on AFM and ran into a loose bracket screw only after I was putting things back together. It was a pill to grip, but I was able to pull it out. Worst of it is when it came loose it chipped off some clearcoat and paint 20210126_212901.jpg20210126_212901.jpg
    So questions, what is the best way to keep the ball from making the chip worse? Do I need to epoxy refill if I'm switching to a fin shank screw? If so, any tips on using epoxy wood on playfield? I've used some before, but haven't found it to be very precise without serious sanding.
    Here's a closeup of the chip/hole and a comparison of my new vs old screws.

    20210126_212921.jpg20210126_212921.jpg20210127_002841.jpg20210127_002841.jpg
    #618 3 years ago

    I don't like the "twist" nails. I like to use the "fin shank" ones instead.

    #619 3 years ago
    Quoted from KenLayton:

    I don't like the "twist" nails. I like to use the "fin shank" ones instead.

    That's what I was leaning towards, I can see it being a lot more sturdy, especially with repeated repair.

    #620 3 years ago
    Quoted from PoogiePrincess:

    So questions, what is the best way to keep the ball from making the chip worse? Do I need to epoxy refill if I'm switching to a fin shank screw?

    At least you tore it up in a pretty hidden location!

    That is going to get A LOT of vibration and action, so I'd fix it with Bondo FIBERGLASS Resin (not regular bondo)

    Drill a few small holes under the chip for "tooth" and you will be set with the repair

    Touch up your paint, then let some 2PAC wick under those loose chips to bind them down.

    #621 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    That is going to get A LOT of vibration and action, so I'd fix it with Bondo FIBERGLASS Resin (not regular bondo)
    Drill a few small holes under the chip for "tooth" and you will be set with the repair
    Touch up your paint, then let some 2PAC wick under those loose chips to bind them down.

    Thank you for the advice!!

    I have 0 experience with bondo, any links to tutorials or any tips? And any tricks to line up the new drill hole?

    Will I need to cover the paint touch up with anything like mylar? Or just let it be until it needs a full restore and new clearcoat?

    #622 3 years ago
    Quoted from PoogiePrincess:

    Thank you for the advice!!
    I have 0 experience with bondo, any links to tutorials or any tips? And any tricks to line up the new drill hole?
    Will I need to cover the paint touch up with anything like mylar? Or just let it be until it needs a full restore and new clearcoat?

    #623 3 years ago
    Quoted from PoogiePrincess:

    I have 0 experience with bondo, any links to tutorials or any tips?

    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cabinet-restoration-vids-guide

    Quoted from PoogiePrincess:

    And any tricks to line up the new drill hole?

    bolt the pop bumper bracket on the top or bottom side. With 2 legs bolted on, the empty 3rd will be perfectly lined up.

    Quoted from PoogiePrincess:

    Will I need to cover the paint touch up with anything like mylar? Or just let it be until it needs a full restore and new clearcoat?

    I'd glue down those chips by wicking some 2PAC under them - otherwise they will go flying the first time you hear SUPER JETS!

    #624 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I'd glue down those chips by wicking some 2PAC under them - otherwise they will go flying the first time you hear SUPER JETS!

    Ah! I was so confused why a rapper would help stick down the chips. Two Part Aerosol Clearcoat makes much more sense!

    Thanks again! Will update once it's finished

    #625 3 years ago
    Quoted from PoogiePrincess:

    Ah! I was so confused why a rapper would help stick down the chips. Two Part Aerosol Clearcoat makes much more sense!
    Thanks again! Will update once it's finished

    2 part automotive clearcoat.

    Aerosol perhaps...

    #626 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    2 part automotive clearcoat.
    Aerosol perhaps...

    I'd take 2 clean glass jars to any auto body shop and give the guy $10 to give you a few ounces

    Youd use probably 5 drops out of a $35 can of aerosol, then the can would turn into a rock in a few days.

    (although it would be fun to peel off the can once it hardens....)

    #627 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    I'd take 2 clean glass jars to any auto body shop and give the guy $10 to give you a few ounces
    Youd use probably 5 drops out of a $35 can of aerosol, then the can would turn into a rock in a few days.
    (although it would be fun to peel off the can once it hardens....)

    I absolutely agree.

    Theres clearcoat available everywhere if you just ask around most paint/body shops.

    #628 3 years ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    I absolutely agree.
    Theres clearcoat available everywhere if you just ask around most paint/body shops.

    Just make sure you tell them you are fixing an antique pinball machine - for some reason, that makes grumpy auto guys go out of their way to help you out

    #629 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Just make sure you tell them you are fixing an antique pinball machine - for some reason, that makes grumpy auto guys go out of their way to help you out

    I can confirm this to be true. I did some time at my buddies body shop after I retired from the Navy. Bring in anything that doesn't resemble a vehicle and production will stop and all attention and care will be put in to whatever project you brought in until you leave happy. It will usually start off rough if you don't produce said project or lead with I have this rare (name a cool toy)
    Mini bikes, go carts, and hot dog carts will have the same impact.
    Oh yeah and if you happen to have a classic hot rod or chopper that's all done up then make sure to drive it there. Instant street credibility in a small town friendly shop.

    #630 3 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Just make sure you tell them you are fixing an antique pinball machine - for some reason, that makes grumpy auto guys go out of their way to help you out

    many years ago my dad and I set aside a Sunday morning to work on his Airstream, and ran across a bearing or something we needed pressed out. We got a couple dozen donuts and walked into a local shop, set them on the counter, and all the guys came up to see what was going on. By the time the donuts were gone, they handed us the part back, all done, no charge....

    1 month later
    #631 2 years ago
    Quoted from Axl:

    This video was very helpful!

    Thanks! Awesome video!

    5 months later
    #632 2 years ago

    Hey there, working on a Sorcerer project. This pop bumper will not stay up compared to the other 2. (see picture) Originally, the pop bumper metal rod/piece was a little shorter than the other 2, and I replaced that with the correct one. I cleaned every component of the assembly, got a new spring as well, although I did not check the size of the link. Its like gravity is pulling down the link assembly, but not the other 2. And, its kind of bouncy compared to the other 2. What am I overlooking? Thanks for your help

    picture (resized).pngpicture (resized).png
    2 weeks later
    #633 2 years ago
    Quoted from SMP14:

    This pop bumper will not stay up compared to the other 2. (see picture) Originally, the pop bumper metal rod/piece was a little shorter than the other 2, and I replaced that with the correct one. I cleaned every component of the assembly, got a new spring as well, although I did not check the size of the link. Its like gravity is pulling down the link assembly, but not the other 2. And, its kind of bouncy compared to the other 2. What am I overlooking? Thanks for your help

    Let's see some well lit pics of the mech below the playfield

    2 months later
    #634 2 years ago

    Im looking to overhaul the three pop bumpers on my Secret Service which are maybe original from factory and now mushy and cracked. Im thinking of upgrading and colour matching with new parts - and something about the lights is sketchy so hoping to switch to 555 over bayonett.

    BUT the original ones in my Secret Service have the older 545-5099-00 bodies which seem to only be available in white: https://www.pinballlife.com/pop-bumper-body-older-style.html

    While the newer DE/Stern bodies (545-5197-00) come in lots of great colours:
    https://www.pinballlife.com/transparent-pop-bumper-body.html

    I think I can just switch to new bodies since the bottoms appear to be the same and so will still fit into the Data East "thumper" or "Jump" bumper mounts under the playfield in Secret Service but I would need to basically replace all the parts above the playfield (ring, cap, etc) to fit the new bodies - is this right? Can the new bodies fit the older DE mount system? Or would I need to redo everything under the playfield too, in which case Ill just stick with white.

    DE newest (resized).jpgDE newest (resized).jpgDE older (resized).jpgDE older (resized).jpg
    #635 2 years ago

    Hooray for Vid!
    I, too, had sluggish pop bumpers on a Surf Champ. I had done a full rebuild, including the switches, polished the rings and rods, straightened and squared the rods, re-centered the spoon any number of times, all to no effect.
    Then I re-watched Vids rebuild guide, and realized I had the washers on the wrong end of the threaded rods. I had them directly under the nuts. I moved them to the base of the threads, reassembled, and it was a night and day difference! They are really peppy now. The devil's in the details!
    Thank you Vid, and thank you Pinside.
    Jim

    #636 2 years ago
    Quoted from Karthag:

    BUT the original ones in my Secret Service have the older 545-5099-00 bodies which seem to only be available in white:

    This is only true for about another month.
    I will have 8 translucent colors available soon.

    #637 2 years ago

    Hello everybody !

    I had not time to wait for a delivery, so, in a couple of hours, I have rebuilt my 3 bumpers bodys with a 3D printer.
    Williams part, ref 03-7443-5.

    It works great, bumpers are powerful now. Next time I will change the color for a funny one !

    IMG-20211207-WA0003 (resized).jpegIMG-20211207-WA0003 (resized).jpeg
    4 months later
    #638 1 year ago

    Yes this is scary. I'm a beginner here. But this is the best guide I've seen so far, thank you so much, the labelled photos are a tremendous help!

    My only problem (right now) on my 1971 Gulfstream is two chipped skirts. The game runs great, despite that. But I'm afraid I'll find more issues once I take the pop bumpers apart.

    I ordered new skirts and rebuild kits from PBR. My sockets are #44/47 style. The rebuild kits don't include the ring/rod or new sockets (which seem to be out of stock) and I guess I need to get new spoons too? Isn't the spoon attached to the top switch (how?) and so maybe I'm missing something here...admittedly I only read the first three pages of this thread...

    Can I use elbow grease and polish the ring/rod with car chrome polish? I don't have a machine.
    Is it necessary to remove the whole bracket underneath? (I'm a little nervous about soldering/desoldering although I did it once a while back.)

    Also, I'm a female, a senior, and I find the whole playfield way too heavy to lift, even a couple of inches to slide/lean it on the backbox. But it seems the sawhorse method would be easier for me if I got some help moving it. But then I'd need to turn it over each time I need to work on top/bottom...trying to figure out the best way to approach this...any and all suggestions are welcome!

    #639 1 year ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    I will have 8 translucent colors available soon.

    Forgot to mention that these are in-stock.
    Early Solid State BodiesEarly Solid State Bodies
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/lollypop-early-solid-state-bodies-amp-caps

    Also have skirts and bases available:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/new-product-lollypop-popbumper-skirts-amp-bases
    The skirts and bases are interchangeable with the Early solidstate bodies and the modern bodies we carry:
    https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/transparent-sternballywilliams-pop-bumper-bodies

    Quoted from Skybug:

    figure out the best way to approach this...any and all suggestions are welcome!

    I usually work on mine in the game but I admit if I were in your situation that'd be a concern.
    If I were closer; I'd love to help out... but alas; I'm not.

    1 week later
    #640 1 year ago
    Quoted from Skybug:

    My only problem (right now) on my 1971 Gulfstream is two chipped skirts. The game runs great, despite that. But I'm afraid I'll find more issues once I take the pop bumpers apart.

    Just like fixing a motorcar, you always find more things that need repairing

    Quoted from Skybug:

    The rebuild kits don't include the ring/rod or new sockets (which seem to be out of stock) and I guess I need to get new spoons too? Isn't the spoon attached to the top switch (how?) and so maybe I'm missing something here...admittedly I only read the first three pages of this thread...

    Your old spoon, ring/rod, socket, might still be good, you'll have to look at it.

    Quoted from Skybug:

    Can I use elbow grease and polish the ring/rod with car chrome polish? I don't have a machine.
    Is it necessary to remove the whole bracket underneath? (I'm a little nervous about soldering/desoldering although I did it once a while back.)

    You can polish by hand with Fritz, as long as it's not too corroded

    You can use a Dremel and green compound too (if you have one)

    To get the skirt out, you probably have to solder

    Quoted from Skybug:

    Also, I'm a female, a senior, and I find the whole playfield way too heavy to lift, even a couple of inches to slide/lean it on the backbox. But it seems the sawhorse method would be easier for me if I got some help moving it. But then I'd need to turn it over each time I need to work on top/bottom...trying to figure out the best way to approach this...any and all suggestions are welcome!

    You might go to the next pinball league meetup in your town, and see if you can con someone into helping you out

    #641 1 year ago

    Thanks Vid ... timing consuming task but once done well worth it...
    Lots of effort to get a skirt changed

    20220509_162529 (resized).jpg20220509_162529 (resized).jpg
    #642 1 year ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Just like fixing a motorcar, you always find more things that need repairing

    Your old spoon, ring/rod, socket, might still be good, you'll have to look at it.

    You can polish by hand with Fritz, as long as it's not too corroded
    You can use a Dremel and green compound too (if you have one)
    To get the skirt out, you probably have to solder

    You might go to the next pinball league meetup in your town, and see if you can con someone into helping you out

    Thanks so much!!

    #643 1 year ago

    SO true Vid.

    3 months later
    #644 1 year ago

    Hi there… is there a way to add spacers/washers to a short shaft rod and ring to mimic the longer A16634 rod and ring used in Gottlieb machines?

    I broke the rod and ring my Gottlieb Charlie’s Angels, couldn’t find a longer so replaced with the shorter standard rod and ring in hopes all would be well. It works but all attempts to adjust, it doesn’t work consistently well. Seems the ball hits the ring at times instead of the skirt at times so hoping I can add some sort of spacer like washers to make up the difference.

    Any thoughts would be amazing.

    #645 1 year ago
    Quoted from LJ666:

    Hi there… is there a way to add spacers/washers to a short shaft rod and ring to mimic the longer A16634 rod and ring used in Gottlieb machines?
    I broke the rod and ring my Gottlieb Charlie’s Angels, couldn’t find a longer so replaced with the shorter standard rod and ring in hopes all would be well. It works but all attempts to adjust, it doesn’t work consistently well. Seems the ball hits the ring at times instead of the skirt at times so hoping I can add some sort of spacer like washers to make up the difference.
    Any thoughts would be amazing.

    Buy some of these and stack them under the shoulder of the rods. I would use 3 or 4 on each side. This should do the trick.
    https://www.pinballlife.com/pop-bumper-ring-and-rod-assembly-washers.html

    #646 1 year ago
    Quoted from MikeO:

    Buy some of these and stack them under the shoulder of the rods. I would use 3 or 4 on each side. This should do the trick.
    https://www.pinballlife.com/pop-bumper-ring-and-rod-assembly-washers.html

    Thank you. I’ll give it a try.

    #647 1 year ago
    Quoted from LJ666:

    Hi there… is there a way to add spacers/washers to a short shaft rod and ring to mimic the longer A16634 rod and ring used in Gottlieb machines?
    I broke the rod and ring my Gottlieb Charlie’s Angels, couldn’t find a longer so replaced with the shorter standard rod and ring in hopes all would be well. It works but all attempts to adjust, it doesn’t work consistently well. Seems the ball hits the ring at times instead of the skirt at times so hoping I can add some sort of spacer like washers to make up the difference.
    Any thoughts would be amazing.

    pinballlife.com:

    https://www.pinballlife.com/ring-and-rod-assembly.html

    They reference it for that part number.

    If its wrong they will refund your money.

    #648 1 year ago
    Quoted from LJ666:

    Hi there… is there a way to add spacers/washers to a short shaft rod and ring to mimic the longer A16634 rod and ring used in Gottlieb machines?
    I broke the rod and ring my Gottlieb Charlie’s Angels, couldn’t find a longer so replaced with the shorter standard rod and ring in hopes all would be well. It works but all attempts to adjust, it doesn’t work consistently well. Seems the ball hits the ring at times instead of the skirt at times so hoping I can add some sort of spacer like washers to make up the difference.
    Any thoughts would be amazing.

    You can use motherboard standoffs , they are 6-32 8-32 or m3

    T1QRoyXmtXXXXxQCI4_054151__26593_std.jpgT1QRoyXmtXXXXxQCI4_054151__26593_std.jpg

    2 months later
    #649 1 year ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    You can use motherboard standoffs , they are 6-32 8-32 or m3
    [quoted image]

    Thank you… I’ll track some down and give it a try!

    4 months later
    #650 11 months ago

    Thanks again for this thread Vid! I utilized it on Motordome to take the three bumpers apart, replace what needed to be replaced, and then put them back together correctly.

    It's too grotesque to post a picture off, but I found one of the pops had its "Big Spring" rolled over in on itself. It was actually partially trapped in the yokes/plunger. It's as bad as it sounds

    All is well now, though!

    Thank you again for taking the time to document the Bally 80’s pop bumper rebuild section... It's much appreciated and utilized!

    There are 655 posts in this topic. You are on page 13 of 14.

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