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(Topic ID: 35328)

Vid's Guide to Bulletproofing Williams System 3-7

By vid1900

7 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 940 posts
  • 177 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 47 days ago by Matthew2000tx
  • Topic is favorited by 543 Pinsiders


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#373 4 years ago

Hey Vid,

Replaced the 40 pin connector and the scanbes on my Sys6 Laser Ball, but left the RNs because they were so tight I had trouble getting the proms out even with tools. Had it out on a bench for testing (not booting right now), and noticed that the top left PROM (#3) is getting warm, which doesn't seem normal (none of the others are doing it). Checked all the pins, had 5V and 0V in the right places, signals coming in from the CPU fine, not sure what could cause that. Also, when I turn on the game, both LEDs come on, then turn off, then come on again and stay on. It's my understanding that during the normal boot process, they should just come on one when power is applied, then be shut off by the CPU, and won't do anything else unless I press the diagnostic switch. Pressing the switch seems to do nothing.

#376 4 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

The CPU won't boot completely on the bench without a driver attached.

I had the driver attached, I also put it back in the machine and got the same thing

Quoted from vid1900:

That PROM could be bad.
They do suffer from bitrot.
Do you have any other games to swap PROMs from (or better yet access to an EPROM burner.)?

Only some sys11s. I've got an eprom on order with the Test Rom burned on it, if necessary I'll cobble together a burner from one of my Raspberry Pis...

6 months later
#405 4 years ago
Quoted from PhillyArcade:

like the coil sleeve is melting.

Is the coil sleeve actually melting? After you play a game, is the coil warmer than on the other side? The only thing the boards do is flip a relay to enable the flippers. Have you tried just disassembling and reassembling the mechs?

2 weeks later
#417 4 years ago
Quoted from DorothyMacaw:

This is my initial attempt at board work. I followed the bulletproofing guide and made some hings better and some worse.
Lets start with the powersupply- On the solenoid out power I an getting 37.7 vdc and the schematic says it should be 24v. On the lamp power I am getting 20.1 vdc and should be getting 12v.
I reflowed all the pins, changed the resistors and diodes, the caps had been replaced recently according to the previous owner.
The solenoids all work in game mode, but will randomly generate a tilt when triggered and kill all the solenoids and flippers until the ball drains. I didn't check the voltage before I pulled the board, but can only assume that I created the voltage being high.
Suggestions, please.

What game?

#424 4 years ago
Quoted from DorothyMacaw:

37.7 VDC for the solenoids (according to the schematic it should be 24V) and 20.1 VDC for the lights ( schematic says should be 12 V)

Where are you seeing these values? According to the schematic on ipdb ( it should be 28V and 18V. The 20V is well within 18V limits, and solenoid voltage can usually vary widely without issue, although I might trace backwards and see where the extra 9V is coming from, just to be sure. Like barakandl says though, both values seem normal.

As for phantom tilts, the first thing to do (once you verify that it *is* a tilt (does the tilt light come on?) is to put some electrical tape between the contacts of every tilt and slam switch, and make sure nothing on any of them might be shorting. If that doesn't fix the problem, go through the switch test and make sure every switch (including the tilts) registers the right number, and no other numbers. If that doesn't turn anything up, then I'd try to make a list of exactly which solenoids cause the tilt. Is it any solenoid, only bumpers, etc?

The game 'resumes' fine on the next ball after a tilt, right? It's not resetting?

#426 4 years ago
Quoted from DorothyMacaw:

I am starting to think I did wrong on the driver board.

What repairs did you make to the driver board? (I assume you don't have an extra driver board lying around you could test with?)

#437 4 years ago
Quoted from DorothyMacaw:

An another matter the drop targets (Switches 27 - 29 and 33 - 35) do not register when triggered and switch 30 and 36 (the solenoid to reset when all the targets drop) does not activate. Though the two solenoids do reset the targets when a new ball is sent to the plunger. Before my work on the boards, hese targets worked correctly.

AS barakandl suggested for the tilt problem, try 'simulating' one of those switches manually (preferably in switch test once you get the diagnostic switches working) by jumpering the switch matrix connectors

#439 4 years ago
Quoted from DorothyMacaw:

Hi Vid
Thanks for the tutorial so far.
The Advance switch (press) works as it is supposed to. Press get continuity, release none.
The Auto Up/Down switch (toggle) worked too. It is a ON-Off-ON switch with 3 poles, two of which had wires connected to them. Down and Up both had continuity, centered none.
I looked to follow them and they soon lost me in a large bundle of wires.
What is my next step please?

They should terminate at J4 on the mpu, IIRC

2 weeks later
#462 4 years ago
Quoted from barakandl:

Yeah i thought about using 20mm fuses, but i feel like most pinballers are more likely to have the 6x32. PCB production cost is all based on sq cm and nothing really else at the place i use, so i might check to see if the cost difference is large.
Anyone know what service bulletin # DE talked about adding fuses to special solenoids? I think i have read it once, but i can't find it now.

I would add a second set of holes at the 20mm offset so that people could just move one end of the holder if they want

1 year later
#549 3 years ago
Quoted from txx3ddq442:

Separate issue - any idea if the double flippers on the right are supposed to be able to flip separately? Mine fire together. Can't press the button half way and get one to fire alone. Is this normal?

Are there two switches on that button? No schematic on ipdb to confirm, but I'd assume so; every other williams game I've played from that era has had stageable flippers

1 month later
#566 3 years ago

Pretty sure they used the same power supply for system 7-9. System 7 uses a D-8345 board, but doesn't specify the last few digits like on yours

5 months later
#616 2 years ago
Quoted from Chisel:

Another question: Does anyone have any nice clear sys4 mpu and driver board component layout images and schematics? IPDB has this but the fine print is not legible for me.

Check the schematics for 'Phoenix'. I recall them having a very good scan

1 week later
#629 2 years ago
Quoted from Kawydud:

The resistors were getting so hot from the locked on transistors, that it was melting the solder.

I had a Laser Ball that locked on when I first powered it up. I didn't know about the issues like this at the time, so I left it on while checking voltages, a bit later I heard a 'plunk!' as two of the resistors fell out of the board and landed on the bottom of the head

1 month later
#647 2 years ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

all 16 Dip switches that control the audits/high scores, etc., are all set to Off

They shouldn't have any effect on non-sys3 games. Even on those they only do anything when you go into diagnostic mode via the side button of the mpu.

#649 2 years ago
Quoted from HighVoltage:

I'm doing some work on my Firepower and noticed there is no thermistor at the incoming power. I'm guessing this was a later addition - WPC? Is it worthwhile to add on System 6, 7, or 11 for that matter? I imagine it doesn't hurt, so thought I would.

It looks like there should be one per the schematics. I think they were used in all williams SS

#651 2 years ago
Quoted from HighVoltage:

I just found a schematic, and this one shows there is a varistor but no thermistor (are you mixing them up?), just like my machine.

Oops, yep

1 month later
#670 2 years ago

RIP this transformer. The lamp matrix rectifier on a friend's game shorted and they didn't realize until smoke started coming out. Now it makes a nice sizzling when you plug it in.

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#672 2 years ago
Quoted from Robotworkshop:

Well at least it may be easier to replace than an entire melted harness. A good reminder to everyone how important it is to add the two fuses on the Williams games.

I thought they'd be in trouble trying to find a new transformer, but I told them a part number and they managed to find a spare on CL 10 minutes from their house, so in the end the only real pain of fixing it was that the spare had all the wires clipped off, even though they have nice connectors on them, grr

#674 2 years ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

Don't forget to put in one of my Bridge Boards. and click on the Bridge Board image.
Available at Big Daddy Enterprises and Marco Specialties.

Sadly I just did it manually. Hadn't heard of these at the time

4 weeks later
#702 2 years ago

That's for the lamp matrix

3 weeks later
#727 2 years ago
Quoted from SpaceAce:

Back on... I believe page 2, Vid talks about adding the additional fuses. I am in Mouser right now looking at fuses.
While I tinker and play with micro controllers n such, I don't really deal with fuses on any regular basis. So I am looking for something that can handle 13.5, and 25.5 VAC. I am finding fuses for things up into the hundreds of volts, but not so much for the lower voltage.
So... Do I use fuses rated for 125VAC @ 8A, or do I need to find a lesser value like a 32 VAC @ 8A?
This question is also values for the rest of the fuses. I am finding prices up to 9 and 10 dollars for something that I would think would be around 30-40 cents. But it's the lower voltages which cause this.
Lastly, do fuses care if they are AC or DC? It's not like a diode, or cap where it's singular direction, so I would think it does not matter. Thoughts?

The voltage just needs to be higher than what you're using. Amperage is the thing that really matters. You don't really care if too much voltage goes through, that's not the type of issue you need to worry about with pinball machines.

#744 2 years ago
Quoted from SpaceAce:

I might have some sys 6 boards.

The sys 6 psu board is normal if the transformer is in the head. Curious if other LEs have it in the head...

#746 2 years ago
Quoted from Travish:

If I remember right only the early Black Knights had the transformer in the head. All the limiteds were late run. Something doesn't add up. Do your troughs have micro
Switches? Sounds like maybe ou have a "regular" converted to limited.

Maybe the LE used a surplus of left over parts or something similar? IPDB doesn't have any interior pictures of the LE...

1 week later
#750 2 years ago
Quoted from SpaceAce:

Hey all, I am working on the sound board and on C26. Both the schematic and the previous C26 show the positive side going to the edge which in most situations is ground. In fact on both sides, there are other caps with the - negative side going to the edge. Sooooo.... just making sure, I know that there have been misprints in the past, so is this correct?
[quoted image][quoted image]

C26 is a filter for the negative 12VDC, so it's hooked up backwards to compensate. The 'negative' side of a cap goes to the 'more negative' voltage, not necessarily ground.

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1 month later
#765 1 year ago
Quoted from RoyGBev:

I had one explode on me, in a monitor, after I'd installed it backward. Looked like confetti in my hair.

I installed one with too low voltage on my PSU a while ago. One of the loudest noises I've ever heard. Was fun cleaning all the confetti feather crap out of the game..

1 year later
#815 8 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Tonight I start work on my first Williams of this era, Blackout! I have a controlled lamp that isn't working (blackout insert ironically to the left of extra ball insert) and where should I start? Pinwiki is having some sort of fit this morning and isn't displaying images in the System 6 area and looking at the schematics this looks notably very different than how Gottlieb System 80 works which I'm familiar with.
If someone could point me in the right direction I'd like to learn a new system. First course action when I get home is to chase down the wiring to make sure there is continuity from the socket to the driver board and make sure the diode on the lamp socket hasn't failed. Bulb and socket look fine and bulb has been swapped with known good unit.

Since it uses a matrix, having a single light out can only ever be a wiring/socket issue. Any board/connector issue will take out a whole row/column.

#818 8 months ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Possible bad diode as well or does that cause problems on the rest of the string

Bad diode can fail open or closed. One way will make the one bulb not light, other way will mess up other lamps in the matrix

3 weeks later
#851 7 months ago
Quoted from Michel_K17:

What is the easiest way to unsolder the 9 pin edge connectors? I am replacing them with new .156 Trifurcon connectors, and I find that removing them while all pins are still attached to the plastic is a pain.
I would love to (easily) remove the plastic before removing the pins individually, but I have not found a good way to do that.
Any ideas?

I just use a hand pump solder sucker. Usually I can suck the solder from each pin, and then just wiggle the header a bit and pull it away in one piece

#853 7 months ago
Quoted from sndchaser:

There are no trifurcon headers (male), so he must be talking about something else. But (card) edge connectors also don't use trifurcon contacts, so I've got no idea what the OP is talking about. Maybe clear it up with a picture?

Any of the 0.156 can be Trifurcon

#859 7 months ago
Quoted from sndchaser:

Only female contacts, not the male headers.

And they work as a pair.

#862 7 months ago
Quoted from slochar:

Very loosely!
I never heard anyone till now calling the square pins 'trifurcons' - assuming that's what you were referring to?
Makes sense though, since the trifurcon female part needs to 'hug' the square pin instead of the round pin - I don't think they're tight enough to hug the round pin anyway. I only use trifurcon's sparingly anyway, anywhere there's a high vibration connector. I made the mistake once of repinning the display harnesses on a bally game with all trifurcon's, and they are now *extremely* difficult to pull off the display board.

Heh, I stopped ordering anything *but* trifurcons. Had to repin an edge connector once and realized I didn't have any flat pins at all!

4 weeks later
#867 6 months ago

That's a cap for the displays, I don't think it'd affect the sound.

Last time I wired a cap like that backwards it exploded...

If, once you replace the cap, you get your HV levels correctly, I'd assume you're fine.

1 week later
#884 6 months ago

What danger is there in only fusing one side of the rectifier?

4 months later
#939 47 days ago
Quoted from Matthew2000tx:

2. What is a good replacement for the fuse holders on these System 6 boards. I'm only finding ones for PCBs with two small prongs that attach to the PCB. My power supply looks like they are pressed into the slot then soldiered?

It seems that the style used on the boards isn't available anymore. The closest you can get is one with two vertical lugs

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