I put sockets in for every IC. These driver boards specially in the solenoid section. Stuck/shorted coil can fry them pretty easily. Repeatedly trying to desolder ICs puts a lot of stress on the pads and through holes.
(Topic ID: 35328)
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3 weeks later
Nice write up on the speech board ribbon cable Hans. I have at least one dead speech board because of that stupid cable, didnt think you could pry it up and replace it that easily. I will have to go try this soon.
1 year later
550 is too cold for those big pads and leads in my opinion. I solder way hotter than that, but I typically use a fine tip. 750 to 850f.
The through holes are of a smaller diameter on system 11 than system 3-7. 22 gauge is fine. Solid core wire is probably a better choice in this application but it really doesnt matter.
Quoted from Pin-one:The two through holes on the left side off the 40 pin. It looks like the pad is missing between the front and back of the board. Hard to get a good pic of it. Been reading a lot about board repairs but don't see anything on how to repair the pads and traces.
The person who soldered p39 and 40 of the interconnect did not transfer enough heat and the solder did not flow through to the top side. In reality this is not a big deal as long as the solder is good on other side of the board.
Someone worked on that board in the past. Bunch of the header pin wafers look new.
3 months later
Quoted from chrisram22:thanks, this whole reset issue is really annoying. It only happens when both flippers on my BK are pressed at the same time. I checked all the diodes and don't have any broken.
Make sure your flippers have good diodes on them. An open or disconnected diode can let enough noise out that it will reset the cpu board.
2 months later
Quoted from MrChuckles:Hi - I have a 1979 Williams System 7 Laser Ball that is playing the wrong sounds. I replaced the sound card, but that didn't fix the problem. It used to play the sounds just fine, then all of sudden they were wrong. Some of them are still correct, but for some I now just get a ding, and some seem to be triggered by the wrong switches. After scratching my head for a bit, I was wondering if it was a problem with the driver board? Way back in this thread there was something about old connectors causing wrong sounds. I did check my connectors, but they are all old/original as far as I can tell. Any thoughts/suggestions much appreciated!
Laser Ball uses green flipper ROMs, that means it is system 6 software even if you are running a system 7 MPU. That is important to know because the sound signals are generated differently starting on system 7.
Your symptoms sound like you are missing a sound input signal. Most likely cause is a broken header pin on the driver board since you tried a new sound board.
sound signals should all be on 2J9.
http://firepowerpinball.com/downloads/DriverBoard.pdf
2 weeks later
Quoted from vid1900:Where does that one yellow lead to?
Yellow wire is GI in a WMS head. At the fuse is where the split off the strands, which is really dumb idea to try and solder four big wires on fuse holder lug... anways. One side goes the transformer, then the four lines is two to the PF, one to the head, and one for the coin door.
Todd is probably individually fusing each strand which makes sense and is easier to solder.
Quoted from mof:Looking at my pic, I just have one yellow on the south side -- does that mean I just connect it, and then run a braid across the other 3 lugs?
-mof
yes. I would just strip some appropriate gauge wire and feed with through the solder lugs and solder.
Quoted from smailskid:I have a Space Shuttle with a lamp matrix column out (IJ7- column 3? I think). Actuallythe bulbs in this column are burnt out. Wwhen i replace them the bulb burns really bright and stays on even when it shouldnt. I am assuming replacing the transistors and resistors and new IJ7 connector as vid described should fix this and it needs to be done for all on the IJ7 connector anyway. Anything else to check before i order considering what the game is doing? Thanks
Your have a column driver problem. It is probably the main driver transistor. They pulse 18v fast enough it comes out around 6v average. If it is stuck on and not pulsing, it will smoke the lamps in short order. Using a DMM and/or probe, you can figure out where the pulsing stops.... it is probably the main and largest transistor (tip41c or 42c i think it is)
Andrew
1 week later
Quoted from mark532011:video didn't really have much to show so here is the description!
I have a "Hot Tip" (electronic) that is doing unpredictable things. The cpu and solenoid boards look like they have been replaced/repaired in the past (the battery has a new socket and a couple of the transistors appear to be new)
When I first got it, left kicker coil was on solid and its probably toast. I unsoldered it and left it for now.
When powered on, usually it comes up with the game over sound but even though I have set the switch's to have 10 games, I get zero and am unable to play. It will let me go into diagnostics via the cpu-board pushbutton though. But sometimes it comes up with no sound and all zeros on the display. Nothing works.
It occasionally does strange things by itself if left to sit. Every 30 seconds or so it will make some sounds and usually the display will change the number of credits left or the score of player 1 will count up by itself.
I ran through diagnostic mode, The cpu diags always pass (2 flashes,) after that test 1 (lamp) is good, test 2 (solenoid) works for most of them (a couple will not fire) but test 3 (switch) displays a lot of numbers (sometimes 5-8 numbers) - some of which I have visually checked to make sure they are not closed.
In some of the threads there is mention of capacitors going bad and causing strange behavior, does this sound like it? I am reluctant to start unsoldering caps at random just to check them but i will if I have to.
A lot of your issues sound like they would be resolved if your boards where bulletproofed per vid's guides. =D
Before messing with replacing IC sockets or components, start with this. Reflow the solder on the male connector pins on the two top right corner of the driver board (switches). The 40 pin interconnect is always suspect too. Relfow as needed.
For the displays, resolder the male MPU 9 pin connectors across the top side of the MPU.
1 week later
Quoted from Chosen_S:Been working on getting all of my system 7 and 11's up to snuff on the power boards, replacing the caps and the high voltage sections, I'm running into a problem finding an economic solution to replace the 18000mfd 16v axial capacitor...
Vid, or anyone know of a non-expensive solution to replacing this cap?
some have suggested 15000mfd, but I don't know if thats safe
12000uF to 18000uF radial or axial cap will work in that power supply. If you use radial, zip tie the cap in place and run a short length of insulated wire.
4 weeks later
There is a 100uF 5v filter, check that sucker out. Caps generally fail open, but maybe it is shorted. RUn a screwdriver along the entire 5v rail looking for a solder bridge. Wire brush the entire board and hope you knock a short off.
Are the PIAs hard soldered? Pull the ground pin out on each one and any chips still on the board. The switch matrix chips are not well protected from incoming shorts. Solenoid voltage could zap one out into a short circuit failure mode, i have seen them exploded out before.
1 year later
Quoted from G-P-E:The 100uF, 100V cap for solenoids -- not really a critical component.
This cap can bring down the solenoid voltage if it is failing leading to weak flippers. Interesting WMS decided to put a cap across the solenoid voltage. Bally didn't. I don't think gtb did either.
1 week later
Quoted from DorothyMacaw:No Pat, I never took it that you thought I was abusing the game. I was just saying that the ball was just hopping around the playfield under it's own momentum from the pops and occasional flipper input.
The game came to me with a slew of problems, but when I could get a series of games in it never spontaniously (sp?) tilted until I put the boards back in after following the bulletproofing of the power supply and the driver board.
Obviously I have introduced a new problem and now need to figure out what I did wrong. I thought I'd start down the line of the list by checking the power supply then after that was deemed good move onto the driver board.
I replaced the 4 diodes and 4 resistors that Vid suggested and reflowed all the pins on the power supply. The caps had been replaced by the previous owner. Without being under any load, the power supply is giving me 37.7 VDC for the solenoids (according to the schematic it should be 24V) and 20.1 VDC for the lights ( schematic says should be 12 V). As I said this was not under any load. I didn't look at any of the other voltages.
The diodes look to be in the correct orientation, and my solders look good. --- what do I do next on this ?
Those are normal. The feature lamps are +18v (strobe to nominal 6ish volts).
See how the transformer is tapped if you are concerned about over voltage.
Quoted from DorothyMacaw:Barakandl and Zacaj
Thank you. If you say those are within tolerances I'll move on to the Driver Board. With a recap of what I found on the power board.
Shows how bad my memory is, I typed those values in from memory. I just tested them again
The solenoids and flippers should be 28V (not 24V) and reads 38V without load and 37.5V under load (the game up and running). I didn't test while activating the solenoids on the play field.
The lamp power should be 16V (not 12V) and reads 20.5V without load and 18V under load. (see attached photo of Time Warp Scematics)
The 100V system intimidated me, so I didn't test that. But the displays are crisp and strong.
The Logic Power was exactly on at 12V and 5V where appropriate.
I started a game with the glass off and lightly touched the pop bumper and sling shots and the game would make the sad drain like sound and the flippers and solenoids would die. I'd put the ball down by the flippers and let it drain. The pop up would reset, the solenoid would kick the ball into the shooter lane and the game was ready for ball 2. Same happened with me touching the pop bumper and when the ball was loaded from the drain, the solenoid kicked the third ball out and the Tilt noise sounded and the flippers and solenoids were dead and game over. So to summarize - the pop bumpers, the sling shot and the ball load solenoid all cause a tilt.
I'll take a look later to see about the Tilt light, I had the backglass off but wasn't paying attention to that part of the machine. And 'll also tape the tilt switches and see what happens. I am starting to think I did wrong on the driver board.
Sounds like you have switch matrix problems. Close switches at the connector plugs to see if the issue on the driver board or on the PF.
active devices on driver board for the switch matrix are two 4049s and two 7406s. They blow out when a switch get shorted to a solenoid or lamp.
PF issues are typically broken off diode letting signal leak.
Before messing with the board, confirm the issue is on the board.
Close switches right at the connectors. Pinwiki should info on how to do this. Basically take the strobes to the returns and make sure they all read right. If there is a problem on the board, you should be able to identify problem row(s) or column(s) by testing different combinations. Then using that info, replace the IC behind it. Still bad, do the PIA.
If the switches read correctly closing them at the driver board, then suspect a playfield / wiring harness problem.
Usually a switch lug touches a solenoid lug and that is how the switch matrix gets damaged. Lane change switches stacked on the EOS is prime spot for this to happen.
2 weeks later
Special solenoids suck!
My FirePower caught fire (well, smoked out the basement) last time i had some people over for pinball. A pop bumper got stuck on and the main 2.5amp slow blow fuse did not blow until after the coil and driver board both burnt. Either the PF switch got stuck closed or the transistor went short.
So what kind of value would be good? 1.5amp slow blow for each special? I guess i can do some real world testing and see what it takes for a solenoid to blow a fuse. Specials are typically the same solenoid coil(pops and slings). Sometimes they are gates like in F14.
Quoted from G-P-E:That's a good idea.
Suggestions -- see if you can re-route those two flipper pins if possible. Putting high current connector traces with connections only on the top is asking for trouble (look at early Bally rectifier boards...although they were higher current on their connectors). Then when board is complete - put duplicated traces where-ever possible on the top. I haven't looked at all combinations but I think pins 1 and 2 are shared by the same connection on the driver board. If that is true, tie them together at both ends on the bottom for added reliability.
Leaving more copper on the board often results in a board that can resist heat better - and is a tiny bit better for the ecology.
Also, careful with fuse spacing - some of them (especially cheap chinese ones) tend to slightly 'unbend' over time leaving you with less room between them then you originally designed for.
The flipper returns are not common together, but i see no reason why they couldn't be. I think they might have done that in sys 11.
Updated tracks with everything on the bottom side. I could mirror every trace on the top too. The board house i use doesnt offer 1 sided boards. I have to print it out or draw the outline of the locking channel around the 9 pin header part to be sure it fits, i think it will be fine though.
Quoted from Nighthawk128:It could be mounted to the wood on the side with spacers - use 3/4" hex head #6 wood screws. Cable is a mini project but worth it, shame having a good nice original board with holes in the special solenoid section.
Yeah that is what i am thinking, on the head wall to the left of the driver board. I am going to look at my F-14 today and figure out what makes sense as far as mounting in there. I think the connector in sys 11 might even have the same pin out. Transistor numbering will be different tho.
I have mounted custom prototype boards in pinball machines using extra pf posts. Star or even the barrel gray ones work good enough.
Quoted from HHaase:If you end up making the boards in bulk, nylon standoff's are pretty cheap if you buy in large numbers from overseas suppliers.
If space is a concern, there's also plenty of fuse packages that are much smaller than the old glass ones Williams used. Food for thought.
Yeah i thought about using 20mm fuses, but i feel like most pinballers are more likely to have the 6x32. PCB production cost is all based on sq cm and nothing really else at the place i use, so i might check to see if the cost difference is large.
Anyone know what service bulletin # DE talked about adding fuses to special solenoids? I think i have read it once, but i can't find it now.
2 months later
Check this out for "bulletproofing". Fuse card for the special solenoids.
20161007_185619 (resized).jpg
20161008_114342 (resized).jpg
You can have a pop bumper coil lock on from mechanical issues, mis adjusted switch, shorted transistor, etc... which may damage the coil and burn the driver board before the fuse blows on the power board. I fix lots of WMS driver boards, and special solenoid sections are often burnt, sometimes to the point there is a half dollar size hole in the board making it not worth fixing.
This fuse card has a fuse for each special solenoid would help prevent expensive burn outs. If a solenoid sticks on for more than a half second or so, I want the fuse to blow. I am testing values right now to see what makes the most sense. Looks like 1.25amp or 1.5amp slow blow is going to be the best choice. The board is 1.6mm thick, double sided and all tracks are mirrored top and bottom for extra reliability
Coming soon ?!?! let me know what you think. 5x20 fuses instead of 3ag? Anyone have a good recomendation for inexpensive bulk standoffs, I used PF star posts 
.
Hans, The one thing i don't want to do is build the harnesses... i am not a fan of hand crimping plugs! I might contact you about this, i think i remember seeing you had a crimp machine.
I am waiting on more fuses to come in to finalize what the best value is going to be. I am going to revise the boards (clean up the silk screen, make the mount holes bigger) and then make this available. Possibly as an assemble it yourself kit and plug and play ready version.
Quoted from eh97ac:Seriously, the lazy guy in me wants LED indicators, the kid in me wants LED's.
0805 smt leds under the glass fuses would look neat. The problem with that is you would need to pickup either 12v or 5v from somewhere else. I think i could only make them light up when the solenoid pulls in too. I guess it is easy enough to add pads/through holes to do so, but i'm not sure if I want to over complicate it.
1 week later
Quoted from snyper2099:I would probably buy 6 of them if they were $20 or less.
$20 might be tough price point to hit fully assembled. Specially with building a connector. I am working on drilling down the BOM and finding the best sources to get parts from. I gotta time myself building them too. We will see what I come up with.
Anyone want it as DIY kit?
Quoted from snyper2099:I would buy as a kit with just connectors and clips, but no fuses. Jim's pinball would probably build the connectors for you (works for Stern) VERY cheap (like $3?). I bought some connectors from him at pinball expo for WAY too cheap. Plus, he is a great resource that people outside of Chicago do not seem to know about.
I have got some quotes on farming out connectors. I need to assemble some myself and time it. That will make me decide whether it is worth it. Sit an watch baseball game, football, movie etc while i do it might not be too bad.
Just ordered most of the stuff I need for about 50 SSS boards.
TTI has good prices on stuff if you can manage to actually find what you are looking for on their website.
1 week later
I am just waiting on a few more bits before i go live with this. I will create a new thread announcing the special solenoid saver boards soon.
2 weeks later
1 month later
The third bridge looks like it has a yellow wire going to it. Yellow is probably tho GI. They are probably rectifying the GI to make the lamps dimmer and last longer.
You have a connector hack in there too. I think GPE has the square plug for the wires soldered right to the board if you want to fix it properly.
Quoted from o-din:The rom in question is the IC17 flipper rom which uses a 2532, all the rest are 2716s, is there a difference? This is a Black Knight system 7. Where would be the best source for a replacement?
2716 is a 16K rom. 2532 is a 32K rom (with a slightly different pin out).
You can get new ROMs here.
http://www.thatpinballplace.com/eproms/index.htm
Beware the during the time of jungle lord and black knight, WMS mislabeled two of the rom IC## designations. So when replacing the ROM ICs, use the drawing the MPU from a sys 7 manual to place your new ROMs. The new replacement ROMs will be labeled properly and match the drawing in the manuals.
3 weeks later
Quoted from La_Porta:Just started replacing the caps on my Firepower soundboard. Also checked the fuses, and someone installed 6 amp ones when they should be 4 amp. Just like Vid has said before, don't assume anything about who has done what previously!
The first versions of the sound board have the polarity marked wrong on the PCB for that cap.
You can tell if you have the first version because there is a 1uF bypass cap tacked down across the 5v rail on the top left area of the sound board. The later version (with the correct polarity mark) has through holes for this cap.
Quoted from La_Porta:Well it is getting swapped around regardless. I was under the impression that electrolytic would only work in one direction...I must have been misinformed. Thank you for the help.
replace it with a new one. It may be damaged. 1uF is cheap enuogh cap not to gamble on.
in many circuits, a backwards polarity cap will heat up and explode.
Quoted from La_Porta:It's brand new, turned on for about 10 minutes once...still no good in your opinion?
If the cap still tests OK and shows no visible signs of puffing up it will probably be OK, but I would still use a new one for peace of mind knowing that I won't have to screw with it again.
1 year later
TTI has the best price on fuses. Usually 10-30 cents each. MOQ is usually a box or half a box tho (50-100pcs).
Quoted from SpaceAce:In my data collection for the needed things, I was reading the Molex datasheet for the 40 pin interconnect. As I understood it, the reason why we needed to update the pins was that they were only rated for 25 cycles of connection / disconnection. There are many places where I have read that the new pins (while no argument... completely needed) were better as there was not the problem with the 25 connection cycle issue. BUT, while I am checking out the datasheets, or several different flavors, they too have a maximum 25 cycles. So... I am a little confused. Now, obviously things will be happy and secure for quite a long time once swapped out, but I was hoping for a little more than 25.
Any thoughts here?
[quoted image]
This is very true. I have a test fixture and every couple months i have repin the power connectors from to many insertion cycles. You eventually rub the plating material on the crimps and the posts.
I do honestly get more than 25 cycles before there is a problem and low voltage / low current stuff can get way more cycles before problems show up. I am sure 25 cycles is a conservative number to cover their ass.
"The game resets when i hit both flippers"
Check +5v on power board. Shows 5.0v
check +5v on drvier board by connector 4.8v.
check +5v on the mpu by connector 4.6v.
repin the MPU power plug and then resets go away and the MPU shows +5.0v just like the power board.
5 years later
When buying bridges I check KBPC and GBPC 3501, 3502,3504, 3506, 3508, and GBPC3510. Go with whatever is best priced at the time. 3506 is 600v, 3508 is 800v and etc. I'd go with a voltage rating double of what the circuit is just to give you plenty of room.
Add a W to the end for wire leads. Otherwise they come with spade lugs. (W for bally, WMS used the spade lugs) They also come in two thickness. I only try and get the fatter ones.
GBPC are generally the black sides with the aluminum top. KBPC normally comes in the full metal case, but not always. Seems like the metal case ones would be better at heatsinking.
https://www.lcsc.com/product-detail/Bridge-Rectifiers_LGE-KBPC3504_C2940147.html
https://datasheet.lcsc.com/lcsc/2201121830_LGE-KBPC3504_C2940147.pdf
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