(Topic ID: 222566)

VIDs Guide: Re-Populating Playfields

By vid1900

5 years ago


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  • 230 posts
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  • Latest reply 29 days ago by BMGfan
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    There are 230 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 5.
    #201 3 months ago

    What’s the consensus or suggestions for when to use #6 or #8 screws for bottom coil assemblies on new playfields?

    #202 3 months ago
    Quoted from zimzam:

    What’s the consensus or suggestions for when to use #6 or #8 screws for bottom coil assemblies on new playfields?

    Standard design on most pins 80s/90s era I've worked on seems to be #8 for mechs/solenoids, #6 for everything else (lamps, switches, etc ). Seems logical to use heavier screws for stuff that vibrates and such, but I suppose I'm not convinced it's necessary either.

    #203 3 months ago
    Quoted from Ollulanus:

    Standard design on most pins 80s/90s era I've worked on seems to be #8 for mechs/solenoids, #6 for everything else (lamps, switches, etc ). Seems logical to use heavier screws for stuff that vibrates and such, but I suppose I'm not convinced it's necessary either.

    Thank you sir. Much appreciated.

    #204 3 months ago

    Drilling out clear keeps coming up. A lot of people are worrying over it, but I’ve lost count of how many playfields I have restored or swapped out, and here’s what works for me:

    Get a small countersink, the kind that looks like a plumb bob. Doesn’t really matter if it’s a small medium or large, you’re host gonna use it to slice the clear away from the 3/32” holes you drill for post screws primarily.
    https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/e0ac7e7f-9157-435f-aa3d-aa818d41861c/svn/general-tools-countersink-bits-195st-64_600.jpg

    Use the countersink pretty much everywhere you’re going to be putting a screw. You don’t really need to worry about it on machine threaded screws, but I’m you won’t hurt anything by doing holes that didn’t need it. It’s probably wider to err on the side of caution.

    After many playfields, I feel that there is an excess of caution around pop bumper nails. Slicing all of the clear away from the head is a somewhat high risk maneuver that just isn’t necessary. The clear should be pliable enough to yield to the nail head as it sets from gently being tightened. If it’s not, there is either too much clear or someone has used an accelerant, making the clear more brittle than you want it to be.

    Quoted from zimzam:

    What’s the consensus or suggestions for when to use #6 or #8 screws for bottom coil assemblies on new playfields?

    I hate #8 screws in playfields. Hate them.
    I’ve had old playfields where the threads were torn out from age or from people over tightening, or removing and replacing brackets without turning the screw backward to “find the thread” first. Whatever the cause, a torn out #8 screw hole gives you no recourse except to glue a tapered (preferably hardwood) dowel in the hole and re-drill, unless you have the option to pivot the bracket (sometimes a possibility with flippers.)

    When I’m populating new playfields, I *always* use #6 for all coil brackets. The Williams sys7-WPC machines I have worked on used #6 exclusively and without issue. Older Stern and Bally machines used #8 on flippers and drop banks, but on repro playfields I mount them with #6.

    My reasoning is: there’s no inherent greater performance using #8 screws (or, more to the point , no tendency to failure from #6) that I have seen. Down the line, if for *whatever reason* a #6 screw gets stripped out, it can be replaced with a #8 since the prior screw has effectively pre-drilled the hole for you. And the #8 should then have good purchase for a long time.

    I keep both screws in my inventory. When repopulating a restored playfield I often have no choice, but increasingly I will just plug the old #8 holes with wood dowels and start over using #6 screws. If for whatever reason a #6 tears out, I can move to the #8 without having to stop what I’m doing and glue in a dowel. If the old #8 hole is solid, I will reuse it, but more and more I don’t trust those big cavities in 40 year old plywood to hold the screws securely over time.

    #205 3 months ago

    If you need to know if a #6 or #8 screw is strong enough for your task, easy math in section 7-9:

    https://woodweb.com/Resources/wood_eng_handbook/Ch07.pdf

    Figure a cheap #6 screw is 121 pounds in shear and 38 pounds of withdrawal at 3/8" penetration in maple ply... assuming a fresh hole

    #206 3 months ago

    How many screws do you come across that have sheared off though? Posts do it all the time, but screws should really never shear off under these conditions. Stripping and backing out? All the time.

    #207 3 months ago
    Quoted from SpyroFTW:

    How many screws do you come across that have sheared off though? Posts do it all the time, but screws should really never shear off under these conditions. Stripping and backing out? All the time.

    On guitars and playfields, my entire life has been spent removing broken screw shafts, lol

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    #208 3 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    If you need to know if a #6 or #8 screw is strong enough for your task, easy math in section 7-9:
    https://woodweb.com/Resources/wood_eng_handbook/Ch07.pdf
    Figure a cheap #6 screw is 121 pounds in shear and 38 pounds of withdrawal at 3/8" penetration in maple ply... assuming a fresh hole

    So does that mean a #6 is sufficient for all under playfield assemblies in fresh new playfield holes?

    #209 3 months ago
    Quoted from zimzam:

    So does that mean a #6 is sufficient for all under playfield assemblies in fresh new playfield holes?

    Another consideration is that if the holes in mechs are drilled for #8, they might have **play** as the mechs activate over time

    1 week later
    #210 3 months ago

    I am populating a new DE Star Wars CPR playfield and I am at the point of installing the larger wire guides. For the small ones, I followed Vid's instructions (2 step drilling, barbs filed) and I am quite pleased with the results. However, the CPR pre-drilled holes for the larger wire guides are already slightly bigger than the diameter of the guide. So I think filing the barb wires would not allow me to install the guides tightly. And I am afraid that installing them as-is would damage the clear. What would be the best strategy in this case ? I am tempted to enlarge the hole at the barb locations only to guarantee that they will not touch the clear when inserted but would appreciate some advice. Thanks !!!

    Jack

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    #211 3 months ago
    Quoted from pbjack:

    rbs filed) and I am quite pleased with the results. However, the CPR pre-drilled holes for the larger wire guides are already slightly bigger than the diameter of the guide. So I think filing the barb wires would not allow me to install the guides tightly.

    Maybe score the 2 spots where the barbs will hit with an xacto knife.

    Or plug the holes with bamboo, and re-drill the correct size hole.

    Or put some 5 minute epoxy in the holes

    Or....

    #212 3 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Maybe score the 2 spots where the barbs will hit with an xacto knife.
    Or plug the holes with bamboo, and re-drill the correct size hole.
    Or put some 5 minute epoxy in the holes
    Or....

    I have done the epoxy before. Mask off the area around the hole and add via a toothpick. Works great.

    #213 3 months ago
    Quoted from sethbenjamin:

    I honestly don’t understand why anyone would need to wax their screws if they are pre-drilling, which you should definitely be doing.

    Bally has a part number for screws that have a wax coating. I guess you can have hardware
    made with special coatings that I never really new.

    #214 3 months ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Maybe score the 2 spots where the barbs will hit with an xacto knife.
    Or plug the holes with bamboo, and re-drill the correct size hole.
    Or put some 5 minute epoxy in the holes
    Or....

    Quoted from SpyroFTW:

    I have done the epoxy before. Mask off the area around the hole and add via a toothpick. Works great.

    Thans for the tips, I had not considered epoxy and it seems like an easy solution. Glad I asked.

    1 week later
    #215 88 days ago
    Quoted from sethbenjamin:

    Whatever the cause, a torn out #8 screw hole gives you no recourse except to glue a tapered (preferably hardwood) dowel in the hole and re-drill, unless you have the option to pivot the bracket (sometimes a possibility with flippers.)

    Squirt wood glue in the hole and line it with round toothpicks. Clip them off flush. Insert screw in the center gap. We've used this technique on arcade pins for 20+ years, with lasting results.

    #216 87 days ago
    Quoted from vec-tor:

    Bally has a part number for screws that have a wax coating. I guess you can have hardware
    made with special coatings that I never really new.

    I’m guessing that’s because they don’t pre-drill when they assembled these things in the factory.

    #217 87 days ago
    Quoted from MR-808:

    Squirt wood glue in the hole and line it with round toothpicks. Clip them off flush. Insert screw in the center gap. We've used this technique on arcade pins for 20+ years, with lasting results.

    Sure, but I’ve also restored machines where this fix has not held. I take small strips of hardwood and chuck them in the drill press, then sand them down to a snug tapered dowel.
    If toothpicks work for you, great, I’m not gonna argue to point; I’m from a cabinetry background and am anal retentive.

    #218 87 days ago
    Quoted from sethbenjamin:

    Sure, but I’ve also restored machines where this fix has not held. I take small strips of hardwood and chuck them in the drill press, then sand them down to a snug tapered dowel.
    If toothpicks work for you, great, I’m not gonna argue to point; I’m from a cabinetry background and am anal retentive.

    I'm using bamboo skewers now for thread/hole repairs.

    Much better than basswood toothpicks and similar to a hardwood dowel plug as far as durability, maybe better.

    #219 86 days ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    I'm using bamboo skewers now for thread/hole repairs.
    Much better than basswood toothpicks and similar to a hardwood dowel plug as far as durability, maybe better.

    I have a bottomless supply of European beech in the shop.
    When I make cabinet doors and face frames, there’s the initial phase of milling down the rough sawn parts. I often end up with thin strips from that process; these get sliced to short lengths and bundled, as they are very good dowel stock for such repairs, as well as good glue spreaders or mixing sticks - or, world-class kindling. If I were an outdoorsman I would toss a packet of this stuff in my bag for getting a campfire started.

    #220 86 days ago
    Quoted from pinballinreno:

    I'm using bamboo skewers now for thread/hole repairs

    Interesting about bamboo - since it is technically a grass, its fibers may in fact be better than any wood, since wood grain has direction and using any dowel for a hole repair means going into end grain.

    It may be a purely academic distinction, though, since really you’re removing most of the material you put in there once you pre-drill and drive the screw. But, I’m a lunatic who spends way too much time in the shop pondering over process, so take my observances with that grain of salt

    #221 85 days ago

    Bamboo is harder than Maple, so it's an ideal plug.

    If you get a bag of "BBQ skewers" at the dollar store, there is a random selection of diameters, so one of them will be perfect.

    Put a little glue in the hole, tap in the skewer, snip flush with diags, and run your screw. You don't even have to wait for the glue to dry.

    1 month later
    #222 40 days ago

    Greetings! I'm at the point in my CPR swap where I'm reattaching the wood rails on the playfield. The three rails on the outside edges were fairly straightforward with the predrilled holes. The fourth rail is making me a little nervous as I can't recall running across anything that illustrates how this rail is accurately placed when reattached. Understandably, it has to be placed perfectly lined up with the predrilled holes so as not to have the wood split or splinter in the process.

    That said, can vid1900 or anyone else provide a link to a thread or a video that highlights this process? This swap has (so far) progressed really, really well after doing quite a bit of research both here and on other forums. This rail placement thing is really the first thing that's got me a little spooked. Thanks!

    #223 40 days ago

    Which game? By "fourth rail" do you mean the one to the left of the ball shooter? It's been my experience that the pre-drilled holes for the rails don't *always* line up perfectly. At times you may have to resort to reinstalling the rail on the original playfield, taking some measurements to determine exactly where the rail is placed, and then using those measurements to position the rail on the new playfield and redrilling the holes in the bottom of the rail so the rail winds up exactly where it's supposed to reside. Using blue painter's tape to mark the bottom & side of the rail on the new playfield and then clamping the rail to the new playfield so you can redrill is how I approach this.

    #224 40 days ago

    You can stick the screws through the playfield a couple of mm, then see how well they line up with the rails.

    If the rail "drops in" and it's perfect, clamp and run the screws through.

    If it's off, then drill new holes in the playfield (offset enough for the screws to being the center of the rail)

    #225 40 days ago
    Quoted from jadziedzic:

    Which game? By "fourth rail" do you mean the one to the left of the ball shooter? It's been my experience that the pre-drilled holes for the rails don't *always* line up perfectly. At times you may have to resort to reinstalling the rail on the original playfield, taking some measurements to determine exactly where the rail is placed, and then using those measurements to position the rail on the new playfield and redrilling the holes in the bottom of the rail so the rail winds up exactly where it's supposed to reside. Using blue painter's tape to mark the bottom & side of the rail on the new playfield and then clamping the rail to the new playfield so you can redrill is how I approach this.

    Yes, the rail to the left of the shooter lane (1978 Bally Playboy). Sorry I didn't make that a little clearer. A poster on FB suggested the measurements/painter's tape method, and that seems logical, but how would I clamp it to the playfield to prevent movement? The ratchet clamps worked perfectly on the outside edge rails, but this one sits a few inches in.

    #226 40 days ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    You can stick the screws through the playfield a couple of mm, then see how well they line up with the rails.
    If the rail "drops in" and it's perfect, clamp and run the screws through.
    If it's off, then drill new holes in the playfield (offset enough for the screws to being the center of the rail)

    Hey @vid1900, thanks. I was referring to the short rail on the left side of the shooter lane on a '78 Playboy. Sorry if that wasn't clear. My ratchet clamps worked really well for the exterior rails, but how might I clamp that shorter rail?? Again, I appreciate your feedback, since I've learned so much from your "guides" here on Pinside.

    #227 40 days ago

    Get two 12" C-clamps

    Those will get you through any playfield except Hercules

    1 week later
    #228 29 days ago

    Hey folks,

    I'm finally working on reassembling my road kings playfield.

    When going in with my Brad point drill bit to cut the clear, I'm getting clear lifting/ghosting in a bigger area than my drill bit:
    PXL_20240623_195740761 (resized).jpgPXL_20240623_195740761 (resized).jpg
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    PXL_20240623_195740761 (resized).jpgPXL_20240623_195740761 (resized).jpg

    What kind of damage is this going to do the the playfield long term?

    I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. The bits haven't been used for anything but this, they're brand new. I'm going in with my drill on low speed but fully spinning and just touching the clear for a second.

    Finally should I try and repair this? Or just move on and do better with other holes?

    Thanks!

    PXL_20240623_195749876 (resized).jpgPXL_20240623_195749876 (resized).jpg
    #229 29 days ago

    Looks like the clear did not stick really well, or you got a poorly made/dud drill bit

    You can wick 2pac or thin isocyanate glue under the lifting, if you want to repair it.

    Try grinding through the clear with a Dremel, that's what I do when someone sends me a playfield with a fragile clear coat.

    When you drill the holes for the legs of the wire guides, move up one bit size. Snug, but not too tight

    #230 29 days ago

    Thanks vid!

    I've ordered some water thin CA glue. What sort of Dremel but would you recommend using?

    There are 230 posts in this topic. You are on page 5 of 5.

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