Ann Arbor, MI
I collar and pre drill everything...might as well since you have to check every single dimple anyway. Don't trust those dimples!
(Topic ID: 222566)
Charlottetown, PE
Quoted from EvanDickson:What's the best strategy for adding new t-nuts to a clear coated repro pf? Should I ream the clear away or no? Should I use glue or no? Should I hammer/punch them into place? [quoted image]
Best way is to set them with a large washer to spread out the surface area. Use a bolt from the other side with the large washer against the wood. Tighten the bolt to sink the fingers of the T-nut into the wood. Remove bolt and assemble.
You never want to hammer on a Playfield that has been clear coated.
Since the T-nut is recessed you should not have to worry about the clear pulling up but to be safe might be best to remove the clear under the T-nut.
Sana'a
I'd make sure the T-nut fits into the hole, without getting caught on the sides.
Every brand of tnut has a different disc size, so you might have to dig around your pile.
Then score the inside of the bottom of the hole, all the way around the edge with xacto knife.
If you are clearing your own playfield, install the topside T-nuts before you clear. Then clean out the threads with a Tap when dry.
Quoted from vid1900:I'd make sure the T-nut fits into the hole, without getting caught on the sides.
Every brand of tnut has a different disc size, so you might have to dig around your pile.
Then score the inside of the bottom of the hole, all the way around the edge with xacto knife.
If you are clearing your own playfield, install the topside T-nuts before you clear. Then clean out the threads with a Tap when dry.
Digging around my pile sounds like an unpleasant medical procedure. 
PF came cleared, but with no tnuts. I'll score with xacto. Then set with a washer and bolt per pin-pilot's instructions, no glue.
Thanks guys!
I like to use a molly-bolt puller. It's an inexpensive tool and it makes quick work of tee nuts and Molly anchors.
1 month later
vid1900
Noob question: you recommended when storing a playfield to cut some rails to screw to the bottom of the playfield; 3/4" baltic birch cut 1.5" wide. Do I screw this in vertically (1.5" tall) or horizontally (3/4" tall). Thanks!
Quoted from dq13:vid1900
Noob question: you recommended when storing a playfield to cut some rails to screw to the bottom of the playfield; 3/4" baltic birch cut 1.5" wide. Do I screw this in vertically (1.5" tall) or horizontally (3/4" tall). Thanks!
Definitely Tall. You want to get all the rigid support from the temporary rails to keep the PF straight.
Quoted from dq13:vid1900
Noob question: you recommended when storing a playfield to cut some rails to screw to the bottom of the playfield; 3/4" baltic birch cut 1.5" wide. Do I screw this in vertically (1.5" tall) or horizontally (3/4" tall). Thanks!
Like this.
Storing playfields 020 (resized).jpg 2 months later
Vid. Since we're talking about temp rails, I'm going to let my Wade Krause El Dorado playfield cure for 6 months before doing anything with it. Is laying it flat for 6 months ok or does it need side rails to prevent possible warping. Thanks.
Quoted from T-Tommy:Vid. Since we're talking about temp rails, I'm going to let my Wade Krause El Dorado playfield cure for 6 months before doing anything with it. Is laying it flat for 6 months ok or does it need side rails to prevent possible warping. Thanks.
I'd put some rails on the backside while it cures.
It costs nothing, and it's much easier to prevent a warp now; than to try and correct it latter.
Quoted from vid1900:I'd put some rails on the backside while it cures.
It costs nothing, and it's much easier to prevent a warp now; than to try and correct it latter.
I set the temp rails on to see how they fit and noticed a very slight warping starting already. As far as the old rails go, do they just need sanding and a clearcoat ( maybe Spray Max 2K or whatever else you might suggest ). Thanks for your insight.
Quoted from T-Tommy:As far as the old rails go, do they just need sanding and a clearcoat ( maybe Spray Max 2K or whatever else you might suggest ). Thanks for your insight.
Some rails are real wood, and you can paint or stain them.
Some are wood, covered in fake woodgrain vinyl
Some are MDF and covered in vinyl
You can repaint vinyl with shoe spray that they match shoes for weddings - but make sure it's fully dry or it can stick to the playfield
1 year later
Quoted from vid1900:Get all your new contacts from Great Plain Electronics:
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=73
The 4 amp are better
-
Get the larger .156 contacts too:
Trifurcon are better
https://www.greatplainselectronics.com/products.asp?cat=86
-
You are going to re-use the plastic housings (many sizes are no longer available or the wrong color), just get the contacts
-
You are going to need a ratcheting crimper that does both crimps at the same time $19
amazon.com link »[quoted image]
Any idea on the sizes I would need for an Earthshaker? Also, what would be a ballpark quantity to procure?
Thank you
Quoted from vid1900:CLEANING THE WIRING HARNESS
=======================
Cleaning the wiring harness is a step you just can't skip.
Otherwise your new (restored) playfield will be covered in black coil dust.
No matter how many times you wash your hands, all your white rubber will be covered in black smudges. No one knows how it gets there.
Washing all the 40 year old oily plasticizers off the wires will help keep new dust from sticking to it too.
Washing all the 40 year old Coil Dust off the harness is the only known cure for "ghosting" where the flippers cause a spike making other coils fire through the MPU.
-
Use a fine point pencil and circle around all the mechs and GI wiring paths (those stapled bare wires) on the back of the old playfield.
These tracings will REALLY help you when it comes time to re-populate the new playfield.
Take a ton of pictures. 3x as many as you think you will ever need.
The whole wiring harness just goes in the dishwasher, GI paths and all.
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cleaning-playfield-harnesses-vids-guide
Leave the coils on (throw away the Coil Sleeves), loop a loose zip tie through the switch stacks (you don't want them coming apart), leave the light sockets, everything.
Don't leave any enclosed switches on the harness. Even if they were waterproof 40 years ago, they won't be now. Xenon had 2 enclosed switches (ramp and ball trough), that had to be removed.
[quoted image]
^ note the red arrow pointing out the switch stacks with blue zip ties.
I noticed that you said to leave the coils on. Couldn't water get into the windings where you won't be able to easily dry it or at least damage the wrapper?
Quoted from WalrusPin:I noticed that you said to leave the coils on. Couldn't water get into the windings where you won't be able to easily dry it or at least damage the wrapper?
Remove the wrapper, wash the coil, blow any water out of the coil windings with an air compressor.
You can get the graphics for printing your own new coil wrappers from Inkochnito's site: http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/ (pay attention to the paragraph at the top, about getting the logo version)
Or some/many wrappers can be bought from Marco & PPS.
1 week later
For the 3/32, or 0.09", stainless steel rods for making wireform ball guides, what tool do you need for making the flanges, or barbs, on the feet? Is it recommended to add these to the feet when repopulating a playfield (in my specific case, an original playfield that hasn't been recleared)?
Pic (resized).jpgThank you I saw that in a new, or newly cleared, playfield you’d want to avoid, as you risk pressing the clear, but in a table where this was already pulled out is wood glue enough?
Still curious how to make these barbs/flanges to look like original
4 weeks later
Just snagged a CPR for my Bally Playboy!! No more waitlist! I've never done a PF swap before, but I have a rotisserie, which I hear is a necessity. A little nervous about the process, but excited. I have this thread on speed dial, and I'll need all the wisdom I can get. LOL
I have a 9.5 original backglass, and I did a cabinet restore last year - also my first time. Can't wait to finish this restore.
Playboy (resized).jpgQuoted from MiniPinHead:Still curious how to make these barbs/flanges to look like origina
No need, since no one will ever see them
But if you really want to tear up your playfield, a pair of small spanner bits can be you dies
Screenshot_2023-06-12-16-24-35-90_3aea4af51f236e4932235fdada7d1643.jpgQuoted from vid1900:No need, since no one will ever see them
But if you really want to tear up your playfield, a pair of small spanner bits can be you dies
[quoted image]
Thank you! Seems like there probably was a different tool originally used in the factory? I'll stick with non-barbed/flanged wire form ball guides for practicality, but really appreciate a tool being referenced
5 months later
The guidance about drilling the holes for screw-in posts makes sense. Does anything need to be done to protect the playfield from posts which screw into the under playfield t-nuts? My original Space Shuttle playfield had lock washers underneath the metal #6 mini-posts. Was this common? Seems like these will easily damage the new playfield clear when tightened.
Quoted from rwredmon:The guidance about drilling the holes for screw-in posts makes sense. Does anything need to be done to protect the playfield from posts which screw into the under playfield t-nuts?
You can put a thin #6 washer under the post.
Quoted from rwredmon:My original Space Shuttle playfield had lock washers underneath the metal #6 mini-posts. Was this common? Seems like these will easily damage the new playfield clear when tightened.
I did a bunch of SSs a few years back and don't remember seeing any lock washers, but in 40 years of use, it's possible that they were added/removed at some point.
If you want to use a washer to spread out the load across a larger area, I'd suggest a thin, flat washer.
"My original Space Shuttle playfield had lock washers underneath the metal #6 mini-posts.
Was this common? "
Answer: Yes!
The mini posts that are next to the three bank drop targets have mini posts with lock washers.
@vid1900, besides the price, how do you feel about silicone washers (e.g., https://www.titanpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=154) underneath star posts and other plastic posts, to avoid the possibility of pooling?
Quoted from MiniPinHead:vid1900, besides the price, how do you feel about silicone washers (e.g., https://www.titanpinball.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=154) underneath star posts and other plastic posts, to avoid the possibility of pooling?
If you have one of those garbage playfields made by the garbage manufacturer, then you need them (because you will never get any warranty service ).
But on a normal playfield, we want the original feel of a plastic post directly coupled to the wood, and the only bounce/flex being the rubber ring itself.
Quoted from vid1900:If you have one of those garbage playfields made by the garbage manufacturer, then you need them (because you will never get any warranty service ).
But on a normal playfield, we want the original feel of a plastic post directly coupled to the wood, and the only bounce/flex being the rubber ring itself.
Thank you!
Quoted from vid1900:If you have one of those garbage playfields made by the garbage manufacturer, then you need them (because you will never get any warranty service ).
But on a normal playfield, we want the original feel of a plastic post directly coupled to the wood, and the only bounce/flex being the rubber ring itself.
Follow up questions,
What about on clear coated playfields, or a vintage NOS playfield like Geiger?
Quoted from Pyromedic:Follow up questions,
What about on clear coated playfields, or a vintage NOS playfield like Geiger?
As long as you used normal 2PAC for your clearcoat, you are golden.
Old lacquer playfields, of course, are fine without any interfering silicone.
The only playfields that need silicone washers to prevent the clear from pooling/lifting are the improperly made ones from the garage man.
Quoted from vec-tor:"My original Space Shuttle playfield had lock washers underneath the metal #6 mini-posts.
Was this common? "
Answer: Yes!
The mini posts that are next to the three bank drop targets have mini posts with lock washers.
Thanks for confirming. An issue I've run into is that new #6 t-nuts (from a few different sources) have a shorter threaded shaft that the originals. They end up being too short to work with the mini-posts with the lock washer in place...the mini-post threaded shaft doesn't reach the t-nut. In these cases I'm going to re-use the original t-nuts. Simpler and safter than trying to countersink the new t-nuts.
1 month later
Even after my 4th playfield swap, I am still learning from this thread, so thanks everyone for your tips and advice. I have a question I haven't seen addressed previously...
Currently in the middle of doing an IPB KISS swap; currently dealing with several pilot holes that are off, and having to redrill after careful placement of components to determine the proper placement. My question is when having to drill a pilot hole very close/partly overlapping the stock predrilled hole.
Are you filling the stock hole first prior to redrilling the new hole? If so what are you using to fill?
I'm refilling with a mixture of wood glue and fine sawdust and it seems to work fine but its a mess and I have to wait overnight prior to drilling the new hole...
Would be curious as to what others are doing in this situation.
Quoted from Dono:Even after my 4th playfield swap, I am still learning from this thread, so thanks everyone for your tips and advice. I have a question I haven't seen addressed previously...
Currently in the middle of doing an IPB KISS swap; currently dealing with several pilot holes that are off, and having to redrill after careful placement of components to determine the proper placement. My question is when having to drill a pilot hole very close/partly overlapping the stock predrilled hole.
Are you filling the stock hole first prior to redrilling the new hole? If so what are you using to fill?
I'm refilling with a mixture of wood glue and fine sawdust and it seems to work fine but its a mess and I have to wait overnight prior to drilling the new hole...
Would be curious as to what others are doing in this situation.
Pilot holes are always off!
Toothpicks & glue cut flush.
Quoted from Dono:Are you filling the stock hole first prior to redrilling the new hole?
I have used cut down doweling to fill in the offset holes.
Once the glues are dried, I carefully mark and test fit parts to get as close
to correctly fit as possible then drill the holes and markings. I use dry soap
on metal posts to help fasten to the playfield.
1 week later
Quoted from vec-tor:I use dry soap on metal posts to help fasten to the playfield.
Can you clarify please?
Quoted from idealjoker:Can you clarify please?
Regular bar of soap, it doesn't matter what brand.
Woodworkers use it a lot to help screws to go into hard wood without binding and breaking off.
Since playfields have maple hardwood in them, and dowels are likely birch, its a good idea.
I use screw wax - it really helps.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040NIC08/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title
Excellent, thank you both! I have broken plenty of screws in the past (not in my games, fortunately) and it never crossed my mind that there might be a solution other than drilling larger pilot holes...
I honestly don’t understand why anyone would need to wax their screws if they are pre-drilling, which you should definitely be doing.
15 years in high end cabinetry. Pre-drilling makes a stronger connection with cleaner results and practically zero risk of shearing a screw head.
For most of the hex head screws used in pinball, 3/32” is just right for pre-drilling. Classic Sterns use a heavier gauge screw for some reason on drop target and flipper brackets. Those suck because if you are repopulating a restored playfield, they have a tendency to tear out, even if you’re careful about finding the threads. So on new playfields, I always use the more standard screws. More than once I’ve had to fill the holes left by the heavier ones; where possible I will just move the bracket to a fresh area (sometimes you can do this with flippers.)
Anyhow, if you’re diligent about pre-drilling and use the clutch on your drill (or drive everything home by hand), you won’t need wax or soap and you won’t break off any screw heads.
Quoted from Mathazar:I put in pilot holes, but I use the screw wax more for "easing" the larger screw into the smaller pilot hole to avoid splintering than I do for worrying about breaking off screw heads.
In some cases, like a very dried up Comet playfield, the screws just break off while removing them.
The wood is so tight that the heads wont budge the screws at all.
This same wood is so dense that wax is recommended even if pre-drilling the holes.
2 weeks later
Quoted from Enochsmoken:I need some advice on how to install these in a new playfield without damaging anything.
Anndason Heavy Duty Metal Setting... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PPL466Y
^I use this tool. It’s a complete game-changer. Fold up a shop towel to pad the playfield, and thread a screw into the t-nut. The tool grabs the screw head and ratchets the t-nut to set it. Gentle, no smacking with a hammer. This is the way.
For pop nails, just tap them in gently, don’t worry about getting them flush. When you mount the coil brackets, as you tighten the bracket, let that set the nail into the surface. Just go easy and find the comfortable spot where the head seats in the clear coat and the nut is snug/hand tight. Don’t over tighten. It’s easy and low stress.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Anndason Heavy Duty Metal Setting... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PPL466Y
^I use this tool. It’s a complete game-changer. Fold up a shop towel to pad the playfield, and thread a screw into the t-nut. The tool grabs the screw head and ratchets the t-nut to set it. Gentle, no smacking with a hammer. This is the way.
For pop nails, just tap them in gently, don’t worry about getting them flush. When you mount the coil brackets, as you tighten the bracket, let that set the nail into the surface. Just go easy and find the comfortable spot where the head seats in the clear coat and the nut is snug/hand tight. Don’t over tighten. It’s easy and low stress.
Great thank you.
Quoted from sethbenjamin:Anndason Heavy Duty Metal Setting... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PPL466Y
^I use this tool. It’s a complete game-changer. Fold up a shop towel to pad the playfield, and thread a screw into the t-nut. The tool grabs the screw head and ratchets the t-nut to set it. Gentle, no smacking with a hammer. This is the way.
For pop nails, just tap them in gently, don’t worry about getting them flush. When you mount the coil brackets, as you tighten the bracket, let that set the nail into the surface. Just go easy and find the comfortable spot where the head seats in the clear coat and the nut is snug/hand tight. Don’t over tighten. It’s easy and low stress.
Ditto... I assume you're doing a PF swap, and if so, I would strongly suggest using directions in this thread to drill out clear prior to re-inserting those flange screws. You don't want to put any undue pressure on the clearcoat as you tighten those down.
2 weeks later
Have found that drilling out clear with brand new, top-end drill bits can on rare occasion still pull at the wood and it turn stress the clear coat. Definitely prefer dremel bits for removing the clear before installing hardware.
2 weeks later
Quoted from jadziedzic:I posted this on RGP a while back, I figured it might come in handy here as well:
Here's a little trick when installing a flipper base plate on a new playfield. I like to get the flipper bushing exactly centered in the hole where the bushing passes through the playfield, but it can be a challenge to get the alignment just right when working from the bottom of the playfield. (Forget about the dimples on the rear of the playfield, those rarely line up exactly.)
Take an 03-7066 coil sleeve and insert the (non-flanged) end into the flipper bushing hole in the playfield from the TOP of the playfield; if the sleeve is loose in the hole remove the sleeve and add a wrap of two of blue painters tape around the outside of the sleeve until it's a comfortably snug fit (this is usually needed on Bally playfields). Position the sleeve so the end of the sleeve is flush with the bottom of the playfield.
Flip the playfield over and insert the end of the flipper bushing into the coil sleeve sticking through the playfield; the sleeve will hold the bushing centered in the hole in the playfield. Shift the base plate into the correct orientation, hold it in place, and mark the mounting holes through the screw holes in the base plate. Remove the sleeve when done and re-use it for the next flipper assembly.
Great tip, used in step with my KISS CPR playfield swap; thanks for posting.
Quoted from vid1900:Tap the Wire Guide into the playfield with a plastic face dead blow hammer.
Tap one leg a little, then do the other, so it goes in straight.
Every tap should make progress.
If the guide is not moving, something is very wrong. Stop. Drill the smaller hole again to clear out any wood chips that are clogging the hole.
If the Wire Guide has any barbs on the legs, file them off. Use a drop of white glue in the hole to secure the Guide, rather than a barb. (don't fill the top of the hole with glue, we want that tiny amount of clearance between the Guide's leg and the clear - the two should never touch).[quoted image]
Following Vid's advice fore reinstalling ball guides; I've drilled the slightly larger diameter 2mm holes. For the remaining drill throughs - since my Bally ball guide leg diameter is No. 42 (1/4)... the next smallest bit I have is a 48 (1/12)... I assume that's too small? What's everyone else using for the drill-through size?
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