(Topic ID: 99541)

Video games require little skill unlike Pinball


By DragonPin

5 years ago



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  • 21 posts
  • 15 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by mof
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    #1 5 years ago

    I have a collection of hundreds of console games spanning more than two decades. Since I became involved in Pinball I cant remember the last time I purchased a video game....
    I have been pondering why, my conclusion is that games just don't offer the same kind of challenge anymore. To me they seem to require little to no skill to play them to completion. This is not true in Pinball.
    Modern video games can be learned in 5 minutes, It takes me months of play to absorb a pinball machine.
    I will admit that I get my ass kicked playing video games online so there is a level of skill there, but not the intense focus and patience that is required to play good Pinball.
    Maybe I'm getting old.... Anyone else ditch video games for Pinball?

    #2 5 years ago

    Yep I did....gamer my whole life...only played pin here and there as a kid but just kept it in play.....now that I know there it actually stuff to do I just love it...pinball all the way now...i play games a bit with the kids if they ask me...which is almost never any more...but I do play my mame cab as I'm in a high score comp on a forum where the game changes every 2 weeks....but pinball I see being my passion for the unforeseeable future........Joey

    #3 5 years ago
    Quoted from DragonPin:

    Anyone else ditch video games for Pinball?

    Nope. Gamer 1st and always will be.

    I'll switch between them in spurts though...

    #4 5 years ago

    I have a dedicated Scramble in my garage. Still can't seem to get any further now than I did 30 years ago. Does that game even have a finish? I like it!

    #5 5 years ago
    Quoted from DragonPin:

    I will admit that I get my ass kicked playing video games online so there is a level of skill there....

    Glad to see you mentioned that. A high degree of skill is required for some online, multiplayer games if you don't want to get embarrassed regularly.

    #6 5 years ago

    Not all video games are created equal. I have lots of Simulators that I play (Rise of Flight for example) that take months to even get good at. I can't say the same for console games, but I still enjoy them.

    #7 5 years ago
    Quoted from DragonPin:

    .... Anyone else ditch video games for Pinball?

    I did back in 1995 when I first started collecting pinball machines. I have been gaming all my life. But I did not touch a video in 1995 thru 1998 all pinball and spending all profits from my company to buy up as many pinball machines as I could. But then at some point I started playing video games again . I just came off a pinball binge of three months after purchased a STLE . But back to playing LBP2 and creating levels if you are familiar with LBP series . It is apples to oranges . Both pinball and video games are fabulous .

    #8 5 years ago

    It wasn't just pinball... When the online gaming (oh man, anyone remember Xband? That was the sh-t for NHL 95 and Madden 95) started regularly offering modem to modem/online play with the Dreamcast, Saturn, PS's and Xbox, sports gaming- Tecmo Bowl, GOAL!, Madden, NCAA and NHL by EA Sports, and on and on were ruined by the plug pullers and trash talkers (who disappeared if they fell behind and were usually 9 yrs old). It sucked the competitive fun out of the game at least for me. It should have been my pinnacle of gaming- now I can have the fun I have with a living room of buddies all the time- didn't translate. That was the beginning of the end for me. I always loved rpg's, racing games, platforms, fighters, shooters, but always got the most joy from head to head sports games with people who saw it through. I am sure that nowadays I could find multiple avenues for like minded gamers and leagues and such, but Im on a pinball path now. Im sure I will still play vids down the line- I still have all my systems and arcades (love my Tron), but pinball is where I am at for the foreseeable future. It is weird how it comes back around. 10 years down the road if I switch again, it will be one helluva fun trip back through all those vids.

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    #9 5 years ago

    You are comparing apples and oranges. Old arcade games such as Asteroids offer challenges that Pinball does not. Some of the biggest games in modern day that are really challenging are more team based games such as "League of Legends". Pinball adds an element of physicality such as nudging and other various aspects. When Pinball players say arcade games require little to no skill I never understand it.

    #10 5 years ago

    I've always loved both pins and vids since the late 70's. To say that vids require little skill is erroneous, they're just very different skillsets. For pins you need a good feel for physics, gravity, "bounce", timing, even a sense of geometry in instantly calculating the trajectory a ball will follow; and these same skills pretty much apply to every machine. None of these "real life" skills apply to vids except timing, but the greatest skill you need there is pattern recognition and mastery, and even then you need the ability to deal with the unexpected, as patterns aren't always foolproof. Donkey Kong is a perfect example of that; you need a higher level of skill / a different skillset to break 100k than you do 25k, likewise a 200k game vs 100k, 500k vs 200k, etc. My high on DK is 537k, so I have some skill there, but I don't possess the skill required to boast a kill screen game. And then more than that, the guys that wring every last point out of a kill screen game and hit as high as 1.1 - 1.2 million, that is unfathomable to me, to be able to find every possible angle and exploit them all.

    #11 5 years ago
    Quoted from hool10:

    You are comparing apples and oranges. Old arcade games such as Asteroids offer challenges that Pinball does not. Some of the biggest games in modern day that are really challenging are more team based games such as "League of Legends". Pinball adds an element of physicality such as nudging and other various aspects. When Pinball players say arcade games require little to no skill I never understand it.

    Very true. People still play those old games- from Berzerk to League of Legends and anything in between is still being competitively played in many places, you just have to be looking. Defender, Joust, Robotron and others have huge followings. Kinda like pinball. I think I got where OP was attempting to go- I too wonder why my brain switched and I think he meant the total pin package- maintaining, fixing, learning, playing, mastering was what he sorta meant by skill- I dunno, that's how I took it. Cuz, yes, while Im a pinhead currently, if you want to talk "skill", there is no question that video games require more skills to be a top notch player than does pinball. Don't think so? Well, that simple lil Berzerk game requires little "skill"? If you want to be the best or in the conversation, I'll see you in about 61 hours, because the current record recently set was a score that took 60 continuous hours.

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    #12 5 years ago

    Some great thoughts here, really got me thinking. I guess saying video games is a bit of a broad generalization. I guess I was musing about my general lack of enthusiasm towards modern console games, and games as a hobby. Pinball as a hobby has really sucked me in, and my motivation to get better and increase my skill as a player is something that I don't feel toward video games anymore. I am a developer so maybe that is part of it. I will always love video games as a medium, and it has the advantage of constantly evolving, VR on the horizon is pretty exciting.

    #13 5 years ago

    Vids require different skills: recapping, converging, and repairing water damage. I find them just as difficult.

    #14 5 years ago
    Quoted from DragonPin:

    Some great thoughts here, really got me thinking. I guess saying video games is a bit of a broad generalization. I guess I was musing about my general lack of enthusiasm towards modern console games, and games as a hobby. Pinball as a hobby has really sucked me in, and my motivation to get better and increase my skill as a player is something that I don't feel toward video games anymore. I am a developer so maybe that is part of it. I will always love video games as a medium, and it has the advantage of constantly evolving, VR on the horizon is pretty exciting.

    I wholly agree that games of today are getting more easier with every decade. There is that fine balance between difficulty and fun though. I got sucked into the Pinball hobby about 2 years ago because I discovered arcade's still exist, Pinball is more of a social game with people in real life, and just so many more things.

    Off-topic here but VR will never take off in my opinion. They have made films, consoles, and even games on it and it hasn't paid off. They keep trying 3D as well and probably in the future, smell-o-vision as well.

    #15 5 years ago
    Quoted from hool10:

    Off-topic here but VR will never take off in my opinion. They have made films, consoles, and even games on it and it hasn't paid off. They keep trying 3D as well and probably in the future, smell-o-vision as well.

    Never say never! The tech will catch up with the concepts sooner or later (probably sooner than later) and 3D/VR will be the rule, not the exception.

    #16 5 years ago
    Quoted from fosaisu:

    Never say never! The tech will catch up with the concepts sooner or later (probably sooner than later) and 3D/VR will be the rule, not the exception.

    Only time I see it taking off is at a arcade settings but seeing as that business is limited and how people abuse even Terminator: Salvation machines guns (hang them up please) I don't see it taking off.

    5 months later
    #17 5 years ago
    Quoted from DragonPin:

    I have been pondering why, my conclusion is that games just don't offer the same kind of challenge anymore. To me they seem to require little to no skill to play them to completion

    Try deep Role Playing games : Elder Scrolls IV & V . Kingdoms of Amalur . Dragon Age Inquisition . Play on the hardest setting . And work on achievements . Those will entertain you for 1,ooo's of hours and test your metal .

    #18 5 years ago
    Quoted from RobKnapp:

    Try deep Role Playing games : Elder Scrolls IV & V . Kingdoms of Amalur . Dragon Age Inquisition . Play on the hardest setting . And work on achievements . Those will entertain you for 1,ooo's of hours and test your metal . ยป YouTube video

    Meh, grinding isn't a skill, and researching min/max strategies is only sort of a skill. I think the vast majority of modern games are substituting time sinks for difficulty curves. The exceptions are out there, but in general video games are more interested in creating barriers that are only surmountable with huge time investments, completely irrespective of skill.

    Yes, many pinball machines and particular techniques take practice -- and therefore time -- to master, but that's fundamentally different from the way modern games manage progression. In pinball, your progression is limited only by how fast you can improve your skillset. Meanwhile, almost all games these days have built-in mechanisms that give inherent numerical advantages to players who have sunk more hours into them.

    #19 5 years ago
    Quoted from pezpunk:

    Meh, grinding isn't a skill, and researching min/max strategies is only sort of a skill. I think the vast majority of modern games are substituting time sinks for difficulty curves. The exceptions are out there, but in general video games are more interested in creating barriers that are only surmountable with huge time investments, completely irrespective of skill.
    Yes, many pinball machines and particular techniques take practice -- and therefore time -- to master, but that's fundamentally different from the way modern games manage progression. In pinball, your progression is limited only by how fast you can improve your skillset. Meanwhile, almost all games these days have built-in mechanisms that give inherent numerical advantages to players who have sunk more hours into them.

    This is true to my original thinking. I was originally referring to "modern" games, console games in particular. That feeling that the game is just doing something to extend the experience regardless of skill is something I feel often.
    I love deep RPG,s but I consider those more strategy and thinking games and these days require so much time investment. Shameless plug...I am a key dev on Wasteland 2 if you like rpgs try that!

    Maybe I was a little naive when I first posted, video games do in fact require skill, especially the classics, its just different. I just got a Rastan machine and that game is a butt kicker. However....once I learn the game its a matter of memorization and timing to get through it.

    Pinball feels like a much more tangible skill, I can take my play practice and style from game to game.

    #20 5 years ago

    I got bored of video games, but online in player vs. player situations they are not simple. Try playing starcraft 2 against a korean pro. You're not going to do so good after learning starcraft in 5 minutes.

    It's a lot easier to say you can learn to swat the pinball around.

    That being said, 1 player and casual video games are dumbed down compared to the early 2000's. Nothing is made as a challenge anymore. Just "complete these steps. Get a treat."

    I got back into the pinball because it is pure and physical. I definitely agree with you there, it is much better than the tripe they put out in today's market.

    #21 5 years ago

    You guys can keep this up as long as you want... but...
    Just wait until THE Billy Mitchell chimes in here...
    -mof

    Billy-Mitchell-Tattoo.jpg

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