Vector
Bally, 1982Vector is unable to start game.
Fuses are fine including under PF.
Go into switch test mode to confirm start switch works.
So press self test button 6 times instead of being in sw test mode all four player displays count down from 1,120,002 and decrement a by 10,000 points credit display shows a 01 right most digits.
Prior to this I had two displays not working and replaced them.
MPU is an alltek.
A few things to check.
Game is in attract mode and all trough switches registering with balls? If the game does not detect all them, you will not be able to start a game.
Set for Free Play or has credits?
Try to unplug the top right connector going to the MPU and reseat it. The cabinet switches come into the board here. You may need to repin the connector. If reseating it, try wiggling the connector as you press the start button.
It is possible that if the trough switch(es) are not working, the bottom right wired connector to the MPU may need to be reseated or repined as well.
Unable to get into switch test mode due to all four player displays count down from 1,120,002 and decrement a by 10,000 points credit display shows a 01 right most digits.
MPU J2 and J3 have previously been repined, J1 and J4 are original.
Checked the trough switches and they are closing properly with balls.
Any other thoughts?
Switched out alltek MPU with a known working one.
Same issue cannt get into switch test mode.
What does the red button under Playfield do?
Red button in coin door gets into self test.
Also when pin is booted up it says incredible shot, which I don't believe that's right.
It's been a while since I played it
Quoted from PinballManiac40:Was the game working before J2 and J3 female wired connectors were changed?
No it wasn't working, connectors had a lot of play so they got repinned.
Quoted from vid1900:With the Altek, are the displays still counting down on bootup?
With alltek pin boots up fine but will not start a game.
At boot up it say incredible shot.
Have tried a different Alltek, same results.
When in test mode switch it doesn't show switch activation it does a count down by 10,000 and the last digit (right) on display is a 2.
Vid no change.
Was thinking of repinning MPU J1 I believe that's were start button connects to.
Good or bad idea?
Quoted from vid1900:On old Bally, I repin everything.
All the male connectors and all the female contacts (reuse the impossible to find nylon housings).
There is no other way to make them 100% bulletproof.
Totally Agree, will repin J1 and J4 tomorrow others have been done.
Quoted from Cheddar:I had an issue where vector was booting into lamp test. Unplugged the aux lamp driver and it went away
Tried that option, didn't work
Thanks
Replaced / repinned MPU J1 & J4 no change.
While trouble shooting disconnected MPU J2 only game booted and started a game.
Notice when XYZ target are down and MPU J2 connected unable to start a game.
So when targets are down sw is engaged.
Could this be a bad diode on DT sw?
With the DTs up go into switch test. When you drop the offending dt what shows in the display? A bad diode on another switch in the row would tell you where to look further.
Vector has some weird behavior with the aux solenoid driver that caused me problems as well.
Can you try to boot with the aux solenoid board disconnected?
If the machine boots now with the dts down there is another problem. There are several coils in this machine that are single wound but have 2 diodes and 3 lugs. Check each of these to make sure they haven't been replaced with a coil with only a single diode. If you find one I can show you how to rewire it to work.
Able to get in sw test, when DT is engaged sw 06 comes up.
I believe this refers to upper left drop target bank.
Disconnect all coils on ground side, issue is still there
When in sw test, some sw would cause coils to engage.
Example sling sw would cause water fall 1 to fire, Z DT would cause pop bumper to fire.
When you successfully get to switch test mode, if you remove *all* the balls from the game and make sure *all* drop targets are up, does the Ball In Play display flash "0"?
It's important when diagnosing switch issues to make sure no switches are closed to begin with.
Can you show us a clear picture of the start button switch?
Quoted from Madmax541:Unable to get into switch test mode due to all four player displays count down from 1,120,002 and decrement a by 10,000 points credit display shows a 01 right most digits.
Looks like coin door switch 3 is sticky along with the start button switch.
Note: Adj replays you can hold the start button to add score value and
trip either the test button or the 3rd coin switch to subtract the replay value.
Test switch...
Check A4J3-1 red no trace cpu//
------- A3J2-7 yellow-red sol-voltage regulator gnd
------- (cold solder joint on back of pcb or bad pin connector).
Note:
---- You can remove A4 switch connector from cpu and use
---- a ground strap wire and trip the switch input on the cpu board
---- (pin #1) in order to get the game into the test mode.
---- If it works then you have continuity problems with the former
---- above wires and connectors.
Note:
Vector, like Centaur, like Fathom, ran out of switch strobes.
--- Check continuity from,
Check A4J4-16 gray-brown +5 volts to resistor 3.3k ohm
---- under playfield.
---- resistor orange-blue to A4J4-5 (ST 5)
---- = X,Y,Z, drop targets switches (anode side).
I hope this helps.
Quoted from Quench:When you successfully get to switch test mode, if you remove *all* the balls from the game and make sure *all* drop targets are up, does the Ball In Play display flash "0"?
It's important when diagnosing switch issues to make sure no switches are closed to begin with.
Can you show us a clear picture of the start button switch?
When in sw mode ball in play is "0".
Attached pics of start button and tilt bob. Should the cap and diode be connected ?
Quoted from Madmax541:Should the cap and diode be connected ?
The diode goes to the "slam" switch
The capacitor is part of the "tilt" switch circuit.
If you solder the diode cathode back on the "slam" switch
solder lug it should work (switch#16) also the same wiring
and switch on coin door.
The loose end of the capacitor should go to the
solder lug mounted on the wood (blue-orange wire color)
Note: if in switch test and (switch#15) is showing then
it is a bad capacitor if and only if all three tilt switches are
open. (one switch on playfield and two are at the lower
left side of the cabinet).
You can manually touch the loose end of the capacitor to
the solder lug during switch test and if it shows the number
being stuck on the display then it most likely is bad.
Quoted from vec-tor:The diode goes to the "slam" switch
The capacitor is part of the "tilt" switch circuit.
If you solder the diode cathode back on the "slam" switch
solder lug it should work (switch#16) also the same wiring
and switch on coin door.
The loose end of the capacitor should go to the
solder lug mounted on the wood (blue-orange wire color)
Note: if in switch test and (switch#15) is showing then
it is a bad capacitor if and only if all three tilt switches are
open. (one switch on playfield and two are at the lower
left side of the cabinet).
You can manually touch the loose end of the capacitor to
the solder lug during switch test and if it shows the number
being stuck on the display then it most likely is bad.
What type of diode should this be 1N4004 or a sw diode?
What value of capacitor should be on tilt?
With capacitor disconnected no SW15 error.
New observation tonight.
Can get vector to start a game, when I hit the Z target it scores, next when Y target is hit next it tilts game, when X target is hit it resets the game. Same result no matter sequence of sw engagement. I would guess this has meaning.
Looks like some rigged-up nonsense on that tilt bob. Not sure if that could be the cause of all this trouble, but that certainly doesn't look right to me.
Edit: the slam tilt switch (next to the tilt bob) looks like one end of the diode isn't connected to anything. Again, not sure if that could produce this behavior, but might be worth looking at...
Edit 2: It's possible I'm looking at the aftermath of some testing procedures vec-tor has been walking you thru. However, if you never intend to use the slam tilts in the game, you can cut/remove the wire at MPU connector J3 pin 16 to eliminate it entirely from the equation.
Bally uses 1N4148 diodes on their switch matrix.
Quoted from Madmax541:New observation tonight.
Can get vector to start a game, when I hit the Z target it scores, next when Y target is hit next it tilts game, when X target is hit it resets the game. Same result no matter sequence of sw engagement. I would guess this has meaning.
Did you check the continuity as above?????? resistor, connectors, etc.
Remember, ST5 is wired completely deferent than the normal switch
strobes that Bally used on their games.
Check those diodes.
Did you check the reset button on the playfield? is it upon? is it closed?
Can you post a video or more pictures under the playfield?
Check for tiny switch shorts against the game/cabinet ground.
(Outhole area)
Update of where we are with testing:
With all targets reset game boots up like it should.
Able to get into switch test mode - 0 displayed until a sw is engaged and reads sw correctly.
Measured resistor under playfield 3.3K with +5 V
When Z drop target is hit it scores.
When Y drop target is hit it tilts
When X drop target is hit it resets the game
Measured +5 Volts on both sides DT SW diodes
Vector, like Centaur, like Fathom, ran out of switch strobes.
--- Check continuity from,
Check A4J4-16 gray-brown +5 volts to resistor 3.3k ohm
---- under playfield.
Continuity between A4J4-16 and 3.3K resistor.
---- resistor orange-blue to A4J4-5 (ST 5)
Continuity between A4J4-5 and other side of resistor.
---- = X,Y,Z, drop targets switches (anode side).
Continuity between resistor and anode side of X,Y,Z DT.
This game was playing and then stop all of a sudden, before this issue.
Hope something in here gives insite
Quoted from Madmax541:When Z drop target is hit it scores.
When Y drop target is hit it tilts
When X drop target is hit it resets the game
Measured +5 Volts on both sides DT SW diodes
Sounds like you've lost continuity on the switch strobe #5 signal from the MPU board to the X-Y-Z drop targets. This is causing any of those X-Y-Z drop targets that are dropped to activate all switches on the respective row of the switch matrix.
Please check it as 
vec-tor requested: MPU board J4 pin 5 (orange-blue wire) to the 3.3k resistor and then to the common wire across the X-Y-Z drop target switches (where the non-banded side of the diodes connect).
Quoted from Quench:Sounds like you've lost continuity on the switch strobe #5 signal from the MPU board to the X-Y-Z drop targets. This is causing any of those X-Y-Z drop targets that are dropped to activate all switches on the respective row of the switch matrix.
Please check it as vec-tor requested: MPU board J4 pin 5 (orange-blue wire) to the 3.3k resistor and then to the common wire across the X-Y-Z drop target switches (where the non-banded side of the diodes connect).
We do have continuity between MPU J4-5 and 3.3 K resistor, and 3.3K resistor and common wire across X,Y,Z drop target switches.
I might not have been clear on previous post that Vec-tor recommendation were check out.
X,Y,Z drop targets should 5 V be present on both sides of the diodes?
Quoted from Madmax541:X,Y,Z drop targets should 5 V be present on both sides of the diodes?
No, with all these drop targets up, the common wire of the X-Y-Z drop target switches should measure low voltage.
Please measure the voltage on both legs of resistor R92 on the MPU board. R92 is around the top left corner.
Please post some clear pictures of this 3.3k resistor on the bottom of the playfield and the X-Y-Z drop target switches.
Quoted from Madmax541:Measured R92 resistor on MPU both sides read 5.2 V
BTW, this voltage test on R92 was for an original Bally MPU board. If you're running an Alltek board it will be a different test location.
Alltek up to Revision K board, measure the voltage at pin 14 of U5
Alltek Revision L board, measure the voltage at pin 14 of U2
Thanks for the pics, all looks ok there.
Quoted from Madmax541:Running alltek rev L-3 chip U2 pin 14 measures 1.87 volts
This pin 14 of U2 goes to pin 5 of J4 then the orange-blue wire carries this signal to the 3.3k resistor and then onto the common wire of the X-Y-Z switches.
You mentioned above you measured 5V at the common wire on the switches, but at U2 pin 14 you measure 1.87V.
Something isn't right - these measurements should be about the same.
You should really be measuring nearly 0 volts (I get 0.2V) at these locations.
See the pic below and confirm you measured the correct pin (14) at U2.
The one wire looks like it is cut.
( orange-blue ).
Did you do a continuity test from pin
[A4J4-5 to the playfield resistor?]
Did you start the game and pull the
bottom connector to the cabinet switches
to absolutely prove that the problem
is on the playfield?
1) start game
2) pull [J3 connector]
3) test {XYZ} targets
4) If the problem still exists then it is on the playfield.
Quoted from Quench:Thanks for the pics, all looks ok there.
This pin 14 of U2 goes to pin 5 of J4 then the orange-blue wire carries this signal to the 3.3k resistor and then onto the common wire of the X-Y-Z switches.
You mentioned above you measured 5V at the common wire on the switches, but at U2 pin 14 you measure 1.87V.
Something isn't right - these measurements should be about the same.
You should really be measuring nearly 0 volts (I get 0.2V) at these locations.
See the pic below and confirm you measured the correct pin (14) at U2.
Remeasured U2 pin 14 with game started measured 5.2V and measured 5.2 V at common wire for X,Y,Z target.
Measured the same in both attract mode or game mode
Quoted from vec-tor:The one wire looks like it is cut.
( orange-blue ).
Did you do a continuity test from pin
[A4J4-5 to the playfield resistor?] Yes we do have continuity
Did you start the game and pull the
bottom connector to the cabinet switches
to absolutely prove that the problem
is on the playfield?
1) start game
2) pull [J3 connector]
3) test {XYZ} targets
4) If the problem still exists then it is on the playfield.
With X,Y,Z target in the up position started a game, pulled the MPU J3 connector everything still good.
dropped Z target it scored 7,100
dropped Y target it tilted
dropped X target it reset the whole game.
Vec-tor and Quench just wanted to say that I really appreciated your help in trouble shooting Vector
Quoted from Madmax541:Remeasured U2 pin 14 with game started measured 5.2V and measured 5.2 V at common wire for X,Y,Z target.
This is a problem. This signal must be low (near 0 volts) 99.9% of the time. When the game wants to read the X-Y-Z switches U2 pin 14 will raise this signal high to 5V, read the switches, then lower the signal back to 0 volts when done.
Because this signal is stuck high, it's causing other switches on the rows of those drop targets to read as closed when any of the X, Y or Z target switch is closed.
The only explanation I can see is if that 3.3k resistor is shorted (it looks ok so seems unlikely).
Nevertheless, please measure it. Set your multimeter to read resistance (if your meter has ranges for resistance, set it to 20K).
Make sure all those X-Y-Z drop targets are up.
With the machine OFF, measure the resistance across that 3.3k resistor - i.e. a meter probe on each side of the resistor.
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Sana'a
Lodi, CA