(Topic ID: 95793)

++ Vault Edition ++ Lets tell Stern what we want next !!


By Beez

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 170 posts
  • 102 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by beefzap
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“++ Vault Edition ++ Lets tell Stern what we want next !!”

  • Lord of the Rings 211 votes
    41%
  • Spiderman 72 votes
    14%
  • Batman Dark Knight 23 votes
    4%
  • Tron 103 votes
    20%
  • Riley's Believe it or Not 16 votes
    3%
  • The Simpsons Pinball Party 39 votes
    8%
  • Family Guy 33 votes
    6%
  • Other - listed in thread 23 votes
    4%

(520 votes by 0 Pinsiders)

Topic Gallery

There have been 4 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

batman_1.jpg
catacomp.png
splash8.jpg
image-2-923.jpg

There are 170 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
#101 5 years ago
Quoted from ZenTron:

I think LOTR VE is unlikely:
1 - JJP's license of The Hobbit most likely prevents this
2 - JJP would sue/seek legal action
3 - LOTR was rereleased in 2009 as a LE edition.
I would lean towards Tron & SM but Tron having the lead.

The pin market has changed much since 2009. You are looking at a dead market in 09 vs a fire hot market in 2014. A LOTRs with a mirrored back glass and LEDs...at 5k NIB...that will sell a lot of games. They could run 1,000 in my view.

As for JJP, I use to think their license with the Hobbit probably excluded it. The more I think Of it now though I'm guessing JJP's attorneys didn't manage to get that in there. Ignorance of the hobby or perhaps fear of it being an unfair trade practice action or something else weird.

#102 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

The pin market has changed much since 2009. You are looking at a dead market in 09 vs a fire hot market in 2014. A LOTRs with a mirrored back glass and LEDs...at 5k NIB...that will sell a lot of games. They could run 1,000 in my view.
.

No way - there are so many LOTRs out there and the prices aren't that wild....no way there's demand for 1000 more LOTRs. Plus, since they did the "LE" thing already, they wouldn't do another run with mirrored backglass.

#103 5 years ago

Another vote for Sharkys Shootout.

#104 5 years ago

LOTR on the SAM platform so it could be colorized VIA Smart DMD?!?

Where do I sent my check again?

#105 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

No way - there are so many LOTRs out there and the prices aren't that wild....no way there's demand for 1000 more LOTRs. Plus, since they did the "LE" thing already, they wouldn't do another run with mirrored backglass.

Let me get this straight, you say no way to SM and no way to LOTR? Other than Tron and maybe TSPP (so people can get a version that isn't ten years old) those are the two sterns most in demand.

An LED'd LOTR with other enhancements would sell like wild fire at or slightly under 5k NIB. Might not sell out before release like IM did on a 500 machine run but the full inventory would move.

#106 5 years ago

Like I mentioned in another thread, there is no way LOTR would be priced at or near IMVE. The BoM is too much and as mnpinball pointed out, the White Star board conversions would be costly. Your looking at a current premium price for a LOTR VE. I think it would be great if they reran them but, let's be real about the price. 5k is dreaming.

#107 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Let me get this straight, you say no way to SM and no way to LOTR? Other than Tron and maybe TSPP (so people can get a version that isn't ten years old) those are the two sterns most in demand.
An LED'd LOTR with other enhancements would sell like wild fire at or slightly under 5k NIB. Might not sell out before release like IM did on a 500 machine run but the full inventory would move.

In the nearterm (this year) I don't see any other game warranting a vault release. IM was the perfect storm.
-Low production resulted in crazy flipper prices.
-License is still relevant & available
-BOM is cheap as f*ck, so remaking it as a Pro was economically feasible.

This has been said many times before, but LOTR isn't likely for multiple reasons. There are already a ton out there & prices aren't crazy. It's a Whitestar game....they're not going to run more Whitestar games. Also, LOTR kind of looks like ass with LEDs...but that's just my opinion.

Also been said before...Sony's not going to bother re-upping the license for the original Spider-Man trilogy...they've moved onto Amazing Spider-Man, and Stern's not going to re-art/re-DMD/re-audio the game. Some keep bringing up that Disney has the Marvel license now...but NOT for Spider-Man movies. That's Sony. Like LOTR there are plenty available, demand isn't extreme like IM.

So - I think it's reasonable to expect that there will not be any more vault games this year. There will be a new fall release & Stern will still have previous recent titles on the line. If for some reason certain old titles start spiking to $6k-$7k for used games, that's when you'll see Stern consider another Vault.

#108 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

maybe TSPP (so people can get a version that isn't ten years old)
An LED'd LOTR with other enhancements would sell like wild fire at or slightly under 5k NIB.

The 2009 NIB TSPP and LOTR LE prices were already $5000 back then.

#109 5 years ago

Maybe they will hold any VE titles for when a new title does lousy so they can keep things going at a nonstop pace. I would guess if they came out with a machine that was doing terrible, they could rerelease another VE. I'm sure they know which titles everyone is talking about on these forums. But then again what do I know.

#110 5 years ago
Quoted from Nightstick:

Maybe they will hold any VE titles for when a new title does lousy so they can keep things going at a nonstop pace. I would guess if they came out with a machine that was doing terrible, they could rerelease another VE. I'm sure they know which titles everyone is talking about on these forums. But then again what do I know.

Sounds like Mustang isn't selling, so they plugged in Iron Man. It makes sense to me.

I think people who are expecting titles like Spiderman and LOTR to be continually pumped out like clockwork are dreaming. Stern is putting out MMR and Iron Man because Mustang didn't sell.

I think we'd all hope their next original title does better. If they are relegated to remakes due to necessity from here on in, Stern won't be in business long.

#111 5 years ago

I'm not exactly sure what is so expensive on LOTR that would make it's BOM that much higher than IM. Both have 2 ramps, two flippers, magnets, plastic set, spinners, molded figures, motor, etc. What is the high cost item on LOTR that would make it so much higher? I don't see it.

Now the Whitestar thing might be a bigger obstacle...it would take somebody probably months to get that code working right on the SAM system. They'd probably just reengineer the whitestar board for any parts no longer available, would be the easier path. And for those that say "that's impossible, they're done with that" well that's just crap, they've done it a bunch of times before. Whitestar was out of production for 3 years before they did LOTR LE.

#112 5 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

I'm not exactly sure what is so expensive on LOTR that would make it's BOM that much higher than IM. Both have 2 ramps, two flippers, magnets, plastic set, spinners, molded figures, motor, etc. What is the high cost item on LOTR that would make it so much higher? I don't see it.
Now the Whitestar thing might be a bigger obstacle...it would take somebody probably months to get that code working right on the SAM system. They'd probably just reengineer the whitestar board for any parts no longer available, would be the easier path. And for those that say "that's impossible, they're done with that" well that's just crap, they've done it a bunch of times before. Whitestar was out of production for 3 years before they did LOTR LE.

Speaking as a software developer, if the Whitestar source code is available... then it wouldn't be so difficult to simply port the code. Now there would be inconsistencies of course. Code referencing specific pieces of hardware, hardware addresses, etc. might not be on a 1-to-1 between each system.

However I don't believe that such an operation would take "months"; the game logic is good and done, and that's the hardest part to get right. Essentially what you have is a software 'rewiring' where calls made in the code need to be re-routed in a sense to the new hardware. The 'processing' (or 'game part') could essentially be left alone.

As far as hardware goes... the POTD and the Eye of Sauron might be expensive parts. The rest of the stuff should be easy and relatively cheap to build.

#113 5 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

Both have 2 ramps, two flippers, magnets, plastic set, spinners, molded figures, motor, etc. What is the high cost item on LOTR that would make it so much higher? I don't see it.

Aside from the PotD and interactive towers, I'd say the 2 metal ramps, gold wireforms, and metal sword ball lock. IM is all plastic. Metal is more expensive. That's why the pro models do not have the wireforms (ST as the example here) that the premium models have. If you look at LOTR, it would be a premium today and IM would be a Pro and so LOTR would have a premium price tag. That's what I'm using as my gauge.

#114 5 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

I'm not exactly sure what is so expensive on LOTR that would make it's BOM that much higher than IM. Both have 2 ramps, two flippers, magnets, plastic set, spinners, molded figures, motor, etc. What is the high cost item on LOTR that would make it so much higher? I don't see it.

Pinside tends to see more stuff on a playfield and start having these wild notions about BOM. Maybe it's because they're used to the crazy markups aftermarket parts have. Just as an example, when Williams built Whitewater they didn't spend $700 on the ramps.

Also keep in mind that the price gap between Pro and Premiums doesn't reflect the actual cost difference between them. I'm sure as was just pointed out that plastic ramps are a little cheaper than habit rails. But it's not like they're hundreds of dollars either.

#115 5 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

I'm not exactly sure what is so expensive on LOTR that would make it's BOM that much higher than IM.

LOTR has a loop diverter, 3x VUK, Balrog motor, Sword lock, Ring magnet, tower of Barad Dur, upper playfield, ring assembly, all the metal parts/sword/upkicker tray/shire vuk bracket/balrog bracket/3x gold ramps/2x gold wireforms, and needs the software ported to SAM.

IM has the War Machine kicker, Monger motor, Monger bracket, up post, 2x magnets, 2x plastic ramps.

#116 5 years ago

LOTR - with New Decals etc.., New Toys
Metallica in the new cabinet - New Artwork for Ride the Lightning PRO
Tron - In new Cab with a new translite

All new vault editions should also have Translite available for individual purchase

#117 5 years ago
Quoted from chadderack:

Speaking as a software developer, if the Whitestar source code is available... then it wouldn't be so difficult to simply port the code. Now there would be inconsistencies of course. Code referencing specific pieces of hardware, hardware addresses, etc. might not be on a 1-to-1 between each system.
However I don't believe that such an operation would take "months"; the game logic is good and done, and that's the hardest part to get right. Essentially what you have is a software 'rewiring' where calls made in the code need to be re-routed in a sense to the new hardware. The 'processing' (or 'game part') could essentially be left alone.
As far as hardware goes... the POTD and the Eye of Sauron might be expensive parts. The rest of the stuff should be easy and relatively cheap to build.

The software porting would take months in my opinion because the whitestar is in assembly and the SAM system is in C...if they were both in C I would agree that it wouldn't be that bad, but as it is I don't think that the systems are very similar according to the interviews I've heard. It also depends on who's doing it, probably take a new guy 5 times longer than someone already experienced in the whitestar system.

#118 5 years ago

Maybe a bit to soon for a vault edition.

But i think when they make an ac dc pro with droptargets and the premium bel, maybe slightly alter the face grafics...

I think that will be a massive hit.

My dream pin atm.

#119 5 years ago
Quoted from taylor34:

The software porting would take months in my opinion because the whitestar is in assembly and the SAM system is in C...if they were both in C I would agree that it wouldn't be that bad, but as it is I don't think that the systems are very similar according to the interviews I've heard. It also depends on who's doing it, probably take a new guy 5 times longer than someone already experienced in the whitestar system.

Are you a software developer by trade? If the original source code is in assembler, it could still be ported... though it's trickier. Ports have been done many times by many game companies over the years. I seriously doubt it would be months of work, simply because the game logic is done... it's just a matter of mapping addresses and making sure everything still works.

If you look at how VP works, they essentially take the 'game' ROMs and wire up the hardware calls to the fake hardware in the virtual 'table'.

Another approach could be an on-board whitestar emulator that functioned as a 'black box' with inputs and outputs that could be configured to work with SAM2.

#120 5 years ago

LOTR - Please just take my money.
As long as they are under 6k I think they would sell fine.

#121 5 years ago
Quoted from sanctumwear:

LOTR has a loop diverter, 3x VUK, Balrog motor, Sword lock, Ring magnet, tower of Barad Dur, upper playfield, ring assembly, all the metal parts/sword/upkicker tray/shire vuk bracket/balrog bracket/3x gold ramps/2x gold wireforms, and needs the software ported to SAM.
IM has the War Machine kicker, Monger motor, Monger bracket, up post, 2x magnets, 2x plastic ramps.

Best post in the thread regarding the increased costs of LOTR and it is all but ignored.

And you can't just look at BOM costs. There are other things involved, including additional assembly time vs something like IM. I bet they can get IM through the line a fair amount quicker than they could LOTR.

#122 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Best post in the thread regarding the increased costs of LOTR and it is all but ignored.
And you can't just look at BOM costs. There are other things involved, including additional assembly time vs something like IM. I bet they can get IM through the line a fair amount quicker than they could LOTR.

I say let them dream, sometimes that's what we need. Heck, I'm dreaming of a 5k MM someday (and I'll be happy with a used one) , so I'm just as guilty.

#123 5 years ago
Quoted from sanctumwear:

LOTR has a loop diverter, 3x VUK, Balrog motor, Sword lock, Ring magnet, tower of Barad Dur, upper playfield, ring assembly, all the metal parts/sword/upkicker tray/shire vuk bracket/balrog bracket/3x gold ramps/2x gold wireforms, and needs the software ported to SAM.
IM has the War Machine kicker, Monger motor, Monger bracket, up post, 2x magnets, 2x plastic ramps.

Right, but what's the difference in cost for all of this (plus additional assembly time as posited by RobT)? If it's $200 more, I doubt it's a deal breaker for Stern. If it's $2,000 more, how did they afford to make LOTR in the first place (twice, I guess, if you count the LE)?

#124 5 years ago

I'm dreaming of a Tron with the new cabinet and bayonet base LEDs...

#125 5 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Right, but what's the difference in cost for all of this (plus additional assembly time as posited by RobT)? If it's $200 more, I doubt it's a deal breaker for Stern. If it's $2,000 more, how did they afford to make LOTR in the first place (twice, I guess, if you count the LE)?

I see your point there but, 2009 was still five years ago and pin prices have gone sky high since then. If the BOM doesn't really add up to much, then why are they charging 6500 for a premiums?

#126 5 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

I see your point there but, 2009 was still five years ago and pin prices have gone sky high since then. If the BOM doesn't really add up to much, then why are they charging 6500 for a premiums?

You would also hope that 5 years of process and other efficiency drives would be able to offset any BOM increases a tad, all speculation but an indication might be in the number of pins they could produce then compared to now (I don't care enough to try and dig these figures out and I don't have the "pin" history to guess, sorry). But you get my point.

Edit: BTW I vote for a Tron *prem* (after finally playing a tricked out Tron pro..awesome game)

#127 5 years ago
Quoted from bigdaddy07:

If the BOM doesn't really add up to much, then why are they charging 6500 for a premiums?

Because people will pay that much.

#128 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

Because people will pay that much.

Yep I do agree.

#129 5 years ago
Quoted from JosiahCox:

LOTR - Please just take my money.
As long as they are under 6k I think they would sell fine.

You can get a perfect HUO LOTR for less than $6k now. Prob less than $5k.

#130 5 years ago

The last few minty HUO's I have seen in my neck of the woods have all been at 5K+.
If you are finding nice LOTR's in LA for less than 5....... Take me to your leader.

#131 5 years ago
Quoted from JosiahCox:

The last few minty HUO's I have seen in my neck of the woods have all been at 5K+.
If you are finding nice LOTR's in LA for less than 5....... Take me to your leader.

I got one for $500 once...but that was a few years ago.

#132 5 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I got one for $500 once...but that was a few years ago.

i sold one to a pinside member for $1800 a few years ago

#133 5 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

Best post in the thread regarding the increased costs of LOTR and it is all but ignored.
And you can't just look at BOM costs. There are other things involved, including additional assembly time vs something like IM. I bet they can get IM through the line a fair amount quicker than they could LOTR.

What does two extra hours of assembly time cost Stern, 20 bucks? Well, I suppose that there is a "price" in the form of an opportunity cost by not having something else on the line during that extra time as well.

1 week later
#134 5 years ago

I think AC/DC in the new cabinet is the next Vault edition or another run of Tron.

#135 5 years ago

Data East Batman.

Keaton was the best!

#136 5 years ago

i'm just curious how the vault edition sterns are going to effect the original stern values...

with the ironman ve release it seems that it is getting a positive reaction with all the pinsiders. i am now wondering what a og ironman 1.0 is worth compared to the new version 2.0?? have any im's sold recently? i have noticed more and more of them popping up on ebay too.

what VE will be next??

#137 5 years ago
Quoted from ENDOFLINE:

what VE will be next??

if I were to guess, it would be more IM VE or Tron

#138 5 years ago

I really think TWD will be up before any other VE editions

#139 5 years ago
Quoted from achtungboyy:

I really think TWD will be up before any other VE editions

I hope so as well ....

1 week later
#140 5 years ago
Quoted from achtungboyy:

I really think TWD will be up before any other VE editions

+ 1,000,000,000

#141 5 years ago

I want classic oldschool models bought into the modern era
Retro is way cooler.
Like SEAWITCH, STARS, QUICKSILVER and the like.

#142 5 years ago
Quoted from oldskool1969:

I want classic oldschool models bought into the modern era
Retro is way cooler.
Like SEAWITCH, STARS, QUICKSILVER and the like.

Catacomb NIB for $2,500 = me as a buyer.

More realistic would be LOTRs or TSPP. Tron will obviously always be a hit too.

#143 5 years ago
Quoted from TigerLaw:

Catacomb NIB for $2,500 = me as a buyer.
More realistic would be LOTRs or TSPP. Tron will obviously always be a hit too.

I doubt you would ever see a classic stern vault title for under 4k. The profit margin just wouldn't be worth it. I know jody said maybe in the interview, but there are alot of maybes plus the market is way higher for a tspp, spidy,lotr than for an older stern.

#144 5 years ago
Quoted from luvthatapex2:

I doubt you would ever see a classic stern vault title for under 4k. The profit margin just wouldn't be worth it.

I don't know. Compare the older classic Stern's to The Pin. Hard to imagine they would be around the same cost to produce. Stern has always wanted a lower end pin market, The Pin wasn't the answer for that but perhaps full size full featured 80's games would be if they were NIB with a warranty.

3 weeks later
#145 5 years ago
Quoted from achtungboyy:

I really think TWD will be up before any other VE editions

Looks like you were right ....

3 months later
#146 4 years ago

Anybody heard anything new about Sterns next Vault release ??
Cross my fingers in will be lord of the rings this time !!!!
Maybe ,Color dmd,,better speakers and real kwality sideart .
If stern can make that to a decent price,it will be a easy success .

-1
#147 4 years ago

It's Tron VE. Heard it from a reliable source.

#148 4 years ago
Quoted from fattdirk:

It's Tron VE. Heard it from a reliable source.

Its going to be a TRON PVE. Tron Premium Vault Edition... I'm sure it will be loaded with LEDs... possibly the lights on the ramp (as found on ELI's kit / TRONLE's, likely not a moving recognizer and likely without the added mode).... I'm in. This way Stern protects it's LE buyers without having the same exact stuff in the vault release, yet just enough to make it enticing to new buyers.

#150 4 years ago

I'd put a down payment on LOTR VE the day it is announced.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 99.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
RGP Models
£ 12.00
$ 25.50
$ 45.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Sparky Pinball
5,800
Sale Pending!
Los Angeles, CA
There are 170 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside